*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

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Game of Thrones; Or The Pain Of Falling Out Of Love With A Story

This is so on point on why I feel apathy towards the TV series falling apart. I decided to pull out of the series last season, but tuned in just for the finale and left again uncaring.

I think GRRM fucked up by co-signing off on the general plot points of GoT because unless he pulls the rug from underneath us, we will be spoiled by the TV-series in the end, however liberal it may have been written.
That video is on point.

I have a feeling he is changing a lot of his initial intentions with the plot. I think characters will end up in completely different places (they already do) which ultimately means the game of thrones will end up completely different. Sure the fight with the white-walkers will happen, but even the participants will be different and the outcome will vary in the details.

If it ever happens, I think the story will feel fresh.
I at least expect that GRRM won't be putting Jon Snow in one near-death encounter after another where he survives at the last possible moment out of nowhere. Seriously what the fuck. Such a cheap crutch that D&D have leaned on in the last two major set pieces involving him. I wonder how many more times will Jon escape death in S8.
 
GRRM's been careful in that Jon's usually just safe enough where he can have invaluable learning experiences. No matter what, I don't think we'll see dozens of arrows magically missing him.
 
Martin fucked up, no mistake about it. And there's no end in sight. Winds probably won't even be out before S8. The fact that a trivial, inferior adaption will spoil (parts of, not all) the end is depressing. The showrunners clearly aren't handling this with the care or thought it deserves.

I expect S8 will have a major "oh shit" CGI spectacle in every episode, but that's about it.
 
Martin fucked up, no mistake about it. And there's no end in sight. Winds probably won't even be out before S8. The fact that a trivial, inferior adaption will spoil (parts of, not all) the end is depressing. The showrunners clearly aren't handling this with the care or thought it deserves.

I expect S8 will have a major "oh shit" CGI spectacle in every episode, but that's about it.
You have to be fair to D&D. They don't really have enough days in the year to handle this with the care it would require, and they never signed up to finish GRRM's story for him either.. And shit, GRRM himself can't crack his own effin' story. It's just a big ol' mess.
 
I don't think Jon faced any worthwile opponent at 100% yet.
He's pretty good but still has a notable lack of experience, especially in duel, in the tv series he's still alive because a lot of his opponents mess around with him instead of going for the kill (Qorin, the crow who left the nightwatch at Craster's keep, the Thenn during the wall attack, the white walker at Hardhome etc.), don't remember how these fights happened in the book though (minus whithewalker).
Now in a melee his plot armor makes him very powerful!
I think he did he killed 2 white walker generals. And he also face Karl "foookin" Tanner. Which he lost btw. I think Karl "the legend" Tanner would beat jaime lannister too in a close combat.
 
He beat Styr who'd probably beat the Fookin Legend. There doesn't seem to be any great human fighters left for him to take on unless he wants to spar with The Hound and Brienne.

The Mountain is Sandor's prey. Euron seems clumsy. Maybe they could villainize Daario as a member of the Golden Company.
 
I think he did he killed 2 white walker generals. And he also face Karl "foookin" Tanner. Which he lost btw. I think Karl "the legend" Tanner would beat jaime lannister too in a close combat.
But what are the white walkers worth with a weapon in hands to begin with?
The first one clearly has a huge advantage with his spear breaking any other weapon, when he has to face Jon with his unbreakable sword he's literally done in seconds while Jon could barely stand.
The second one is done in seconds too, so to me it just looks like these two whitewalkers weren't good fighters to begin with and/or overconfident.

Which is why these two fights are TV series exclusive, because it would downplay the whitewalker's skills a lot in the books.

As for Styr it was thanks to him messing around, in a regular axe/sword duel Jon lost. I can't remember how this particular duel played out in the book though.
 
But what are the white walkers worth with a weapon in hands to begin with?
The first one clearly has a huge advantage with his spear breaking any other weapon, when he has to face Jon with his unbreakable sword he's literally done in seconds while Jon could barely stand.
The second one is done in seconds too, so to me it just looks like these two whitewalkers weren't good fighters to begin with and/or overconfident.

Which is why these two fights are TV series exclusive, because it would downplay the whitewalker's skills a lot in the books.

As for Styr it was thanks to him messing around, in a regular axe/sword duel Jon lost. I can't remember how this particular duel played out in the book though.
Yeah in game of thrones (book 1) they set up the WW to be pretty OP. Sey Royce? Stood no chance against the white walker. And got destroyed pretty easily.
 
But what are the white walkers worth with a weapon in hands to begin with?
The first one clearly has a huge advantage with his spear breaking any other weapon, when he has to face Jon with his unbreakable sword he's literally done in seconds while Jon could barely stand.
The second one is done in seconds too, so to me it just looks like these two whitewalkers weren't good fighters to begin with and/or overconfident.

Which is why these two fights are TV series exclusive, because it would downplay the whitewalker's skills a lot in the books.

As for Styr it was thanks to him messing around, in a regular axe/sword duel Jon lost. I can't remember how this particular duel played out in the book though.
Styr wasn't messing around. He discarded the axe when he realized he couldn't hit Jon with it so he caught the chain and tossed it to throw Jon off balance(can't believe I remember this shit lol). Anyway, he doesn't fight Styr in the books. Holding his own against book-Mance is more impressive than barely beating Styr though.

White Walkers are definitely nerfed as hell though. They're supposed to all be huge but almost ghostly and freakishly fast/skilled. Like, the Clegane brothers would probably be fucked in a fight with them.
 
White Walkers are definitely nerfed as hell though. They're supposed to all be huge but almost ghostly and freakishly fast/skilled. Like, the Clegane brothers would probably be fucked in a fight with them.
They started out that way, moving like Wraiths and severing heads, moving bodies / creating art from corpses. In fact the Wights were far cooler early on as well, with the Army of the dead Sam saw being far more like Zombies from Romero's films (who would win just by pure numbers) than the sprinting, feral things we have now.
 
http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-night-king-theory-destination/

So at first glance, I didn't give this theory much thought. But on second thought, what if there is something to it. What if the night king wants to go to Isle of Man because that is the only place where he can turn back into a man? We saw in the flashback he was forcefully changed and now he just wants to become a man again?
There are so many theories that let's be honest, someone will get it right, this is what happens when you take 30 years to finish your saga Martin.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I believe there's a reasonably good chance that Winds of Winter will eventually release. I don't expect there to be another book beyond that, no. Writer's block is a bitch. People really underestimate how it can wreck even the best writers.
Oh okay, I understand ya. I'm slightly more optimistic, but am extremely curious what he is having trouble with this time. I mean Book 4 was the problem with a time skip, and Book 5 was the meereense knot.
If he does indeed not finish the last book, I hope we at least get the plot points released. I don't want something similar to the Wheel of Time's series.
http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-night-king-theory-destination/

So at first glance, I didn't give this theory much thought. But on second thought, what if there is something to it. What if the night king wants to go to Isle of Man because that is the only place where he can turn back into a man? We saw in the flashback he was forcefully changed and now he just wants to become a man again?
Sure, why the fuck not!

People exactly guessed Harry Potter ending (minus the Elder Wand), too. That's what happens when you have millions of fans.
The movies or the book? Because if it's the movies...it's not surprising. The book? That's impossible.
 
The movies or the book? Because if it's the movies...it's not surprising. The book? That's impossible.
The books. I read more than a few theories that guessed
Snape was in love with Lily and was forced to kill Dumbledore
and
Harry had a horcrux inside of him and would have to sacrafice himself to kill it
. Obviously, so many little things happened that guessing all of them is next to impossible, but the greater events were definitely predicted by the community in the gap between Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows.
 
The books. I read more than a few theories that guessed
Snape was in love with Lily and was forced to kill Dumbledore
and
Harry had a horcrux inside of him and would have to sacrafice himself to kill it
. Obviously, so many little things happened that guessing all of them is next to impossible, but the greater events were definitely predicted by the community in the gap between Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows.
It's worth noting that these predictions were pretty intense and not just, like, random reddit guessing or something.

I read a physical book of predictions (put out by one of the bigger fansites I think?) before Hallows was out.
 
The books. I read more than a few theories that guessed
Snape was in love with Lily and was forced to kill Dumbledore
and
Harry had a horcrux inside of him and would have to sacrafice himself to kill it
. Obviously, so many little things happened that guessing all of them is next to impossible, but the greater events were definitely predicted by the community in the gap between Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows.
On Snape.
Theories were going back and forth for him and all of them were believable

The only fanfic I've ever ridden was a DH fanfic before DH came out and it was SCARY how many things it got exactly or pretty close to.
 
The books. I read more than a few theories that guessed
Snape was in love with Lily and was forced to kill Dumbledore
and
Harry had a horcrux inside of him and would have to sacrafice himself to kill it
. Obviously, so many little things happened that guessing all of them is next to impossible, but the greater events were definitely predicted by the community in the gap between Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows.
I wouldn't really say these two were too hard to guess.
 
I'm not sure that Martin has writers block, he opened so many plot threads in the last couple of books that it seems impossible to me to even begin resolving them in two more books. There are three Ironborn strands!
 
I'm not sure that Martin has writers block, he opened so many plot threads in the last couple of books that it seems impossible to me to even begin resolving them in two more books. There are three Ironborn strands!
It's definitely writer's block no matter how he wants to colorfully describe it. First it was indecision over the 5 year time skip, then it was the Meereenese Knot, now it's whatever else is holding him back. He is finding it difficult to move forward and to progress his narrative to the places he wants it to go. Writer's block isn't just not having any idea of what you want to write, it can also be not knowing how to write your way to a narrative destination you have in mind. He finds himself stuck over and over again and there's probably a lot of rewriting every time he changes certain things.
 
It's definitely writer's block no matter how he wants to colorfully describe it. First it was indecision over the 5 year time skip, then it was the Meereenese Knot, now it's whatever else is holding him back. He is finding it difficult to move forward and to progress his narrative to the places he wants it to go. Writer's block isn't just not having any idea of what you want to write, it can also be not knowing how to write your way to a narrative destination you have in mind. He finds himself stuck over and over again and there's probably a lot of rewriting every time he changes certain things.
I only hope that he makes the sensible decision to wrap up those threads in a major catastrophic event - I would have no problem with this even if it feels rushed - something like a war where a lot of people die.. So that he can focus on the core characters of the story.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
The books. I read more than a few theories that guessed
Snape was in love with Lily and was forced to kill Dumbledore
and
Harry had a horcrux inside of him and would have to sacrafice himself to kill it
. Obviously, so many little things happened that guessing all of them is next to impossible, but the greater events were definitely predicted by the community in the gap between Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows.
Ya Know what...I forgot about Book 6 lol. I'm not sure what I meant when I originally said what I said. I'm thinking maybe beetle the bard bs.
 
Rowling was pretty good at foreshadowing stuff with it seeming kind of unimportant of the time.

I remember her talking about one encounter with a young fan who pieced together that Dumbledore's brother was the barman at the Hog's Head. Minor revelation overall, but neat aomeone put together a few random sentences like that.
 
I read the first three books right before Feast came out, and when it did, I decided to wait until "the other half" of the book came out so I could read them together.

Yeah.

So a couple years later when I finally did Feast I remember thinking to myself that the upside of waiting to read it was there wouldn't be much a wait for the next book.

Yeah.

I even managed to stay mostly positive waiting for Dance, listening to podcasts, talking on messageboards, being minorly active in the "fan community".

Dance eventually came out and of course the optimism that NOW the books would start coming out regularly, the knot was untangled, he's motivated to beat the show to the ending...

Yeah.

The show is what broke me. I think I would be content waiting if it wasn't for this garbage fire of a show that shares some character names and basic plot ideas with the books but doesn't represent what they are in the slightest...

I finally am one of those assholes who resent George. Not because he writes slow, but because he is doing what he said he'd never do, let someone else finish his work for him. And those people are fucking morons.
 
http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-night-king-theory-destination/

So at first glance, I didn't give this theory much thought. But on second thought, what if there is something to it. What if the night king wants to go to Isle of Man because that is the only place where he can turn back into a man? We saw in the flashback he was forcefully changed and now he just wants to become a man again?
In the show it's hinted that the tree is north of the wall. There were a few cuts of very similar looking areas during that scene and later ones. I believe this also implies the white walkers are the reason for the long seasons and the intense cold in the north.

I really hope the white walkers in the show are not just a generic zombie horde and they are fleshed out (get it?).
 
It's definitely writer's block no matter how he wants to colorfully describe it. First it was indecision over the 5 year time skip, then it was the Meereenese Knot, now it's whatever else is holding him back. He is finding it difficult to move forward and to progress his narrative to the places he wants it to go. Writer's block isn't just not having any idea of what you want to write, it can also be not knowing how to write your way to a narrative destination you have in mind. He finds himself stuck over and over again and there's probably a lot of rewriting every time he changes certain things.
Yes, I don't think Martin looks at a blank page all day for weeks on end, despairing that he can't write a single word. I think he writes steadily (if slowly), but often goes down narrative dead ends. He explores whatever idea he has in text, rather than hashing it out in his imagination, and because he's only working on one POV at a time, he's either wasted that time if the idea doesn't pan out or he then has to rework previous writing. If he's lucky it only affects unwritten POVs.
 
Yes, I don't think Martin looks at a blank page all day for weeks on end, despairing that he can't write a single word. I think he writes steadily (if slowly), but often goes down narrative dead ends. He explores whatever idea he has in text, rather than hashing it out in his imagination, and because he's only working on one POV at a time, he's either wasted that time if the idea doesn't pan out or he then has to rework previous writing. If he's lucky it only affects unwritten POVs.
Just think about how much world building he laces into every viewpoint, too. He peppers hints of the greater story in seemingly unconnected POVs, so if he does go down the wrong path, he has to rework the POVs that are largely fine to cut out that references that don't make sense anymore.

That's why I don't dispair that it's taking him so long to write these books. The way that he layers themes and ideas and details into every POV is just masterful. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to write a story where so many dispirate parts add up to the whole. We were talking about Harry Potter a bit (which I adore). Just compare Harry Potter with A Song of Ice and Fire. Having everything play out through Harry's eyes is jsut so much easier than what Martin set up.

I still think we're going to get a conclusion from him. He's fanatical about A Song of Ice and Fire. I'd be shocked if he isn't doing everything in his power to see it through to the end.
 
There are so many theories that let's be honest, someone will get it right, this is what happens when you take 30 years to finish your saga Martin.
I guessed R = + L = J, immeditately upon my first read through of AGoT.

And figured that AA and TPTWP were probably two different people, despite how he wove the tales of them together in his script.

Martin isn't THAT deep.

His most redeeming quality seems to be that he WILL stick to his original guns, even if people figure him out in the milieu.

Also: Mazrim Taim WAS
Demandred before Sanderson took over/Jordan changed it to spite everything he'd previously "encrypted".
 
LTTP here.

I still LOVE this show. I loved S7 despite its many flaws.

But what's the point of the Night King and his army ? I remember GRRM saying how he would never write a one dimensional story, that there has to be more to characters than just good or bad but 7 seasons in and the Night King is as one dimensional, boring, uninteresting villain I've ever seen. What's his motive here ? Even if there's more nuance to his character and his reasoning for doing what he does it's been 7 seasons in and they've failed to convey that reasoning. So is his army just going to turn every living being into the death and then what ? Are they going to have a staring contest for the rest of infinity ? There's GOT to be more complexity to it than just that right ? My biggest issue is that they've done a very poor job of showing even a glimpse of that complexity.

Why does the hound throw those rocks ? I mean what was the reasoning for that ?
Surely these characters are NOT THAT dumb (who is the dumb c... now ?).
Why does Benjen say ''there's no time'' to Jon when he had all the time in the world ? He had enough time to have a small convo, he had at least 20 seconds to get on the damn horse. I don't mind that he stayed but the line ''there's no time'' bugged me a lot, took me out of the story. Why couldn't the writers just have changed that into ''I CAN'T''. At least it'll leave you with a mystery, question mark as to why ? Is it because he can't go beyond the other side of the wall ? Is it because he doesn't see himself as living ? Does he crave for an end ?

Tyrion is the dumbest character in this show in S7 when he was so much smarter before. They lost a dragon because of him. The writers needed to grant the NK a dragon and this was the way they wanted to do it ? WOW. This has got to be one of the dumbest reasonings I've seen. I mean scratch that they could've just jumped on the damn dragon, flew over there capture find a small group capture one and GTFO there. I know I know it wouldn't make for a good story. True. But still....
What did they think they were going to achieve with showing Cersei the dead ? Did these characters, who fully know the evil nature of Cersei, really think she would fight alongside them if she ''believed'' ? They weren't afraid to fight their dragons but ooooh a skeleton zombie will be the tipping point for us to change our perspective ? LOL. In the end nothing changed, Cersei did what every one of us thought would happen before it did, plot to fight against them anyway.

I think S7 wasn't even that bad, but the last 2 episodes, have really kind of taken me out of the story with the out of character moments and decisions.

Also if someone can shed some more light on this. WHAT IS GOING ON WITH TYRION ? He had a conversation with Cersei, Cersei tricked him into sympathy when she grabbed her pregnant belly in front of Tyrion, we saw Tyrions shook reaction and the scene cut off there, then we see Cersei plotting against Dany and Jon saying she'd help them. Then when Dany and Jon have boatsex we see Tyrion look, not with a sad look, or worried look, but with a genuinely hateful look. I thought he was sad because of the complications that relationship will cause and that Tyrion won't have much to say as a right hand now with Jon being the one she will turn to but it wasn't a worried look. It was a genuinely ''I have done some evil shit'' look. It would be so out of character again if they make Tyrion a bad guy all of a sudden. But there is something to that moment, what did Tyrion really plot with Cersei ? Tyrion has repeatedly made many mistakes this season and Dany kept reminding him about it and Tyrion was pissed.

I don't even blame the showrunners. I blame GRRM. They believed in GRRM, he agreed to it, and they followed him. Then when he failed to deliver they were on their own. You can't ask them to hold it out for 5-6 more years.

Also am I wrong for thinking Drogon had a better first meeting with Jon than Dany even though she is the ''mother of dragons'' ? I mean he could've just pet him and kept it at that. But when the camera panned to Drogons eye and his reaction made me think there is more it. Do you guys think Jon will ride Drogon to fight the NK with his dragon ? Or will Jon ride an ice dragon ?

I've written quite a bit, apologize if you've still stuck with it so far.
 
I don't even blame the showrunners. I blame GRRM. They believed in GRRM, he agreed to it, and they followed him. Then when he failed to deliver they were on their own. You can't ask them to hold it out for 5-6 more years.
The showrunners came up with their own ending and have been building toward it since season 2 wrapped up. Good or bad, this is their story. They own this.
 
Hard to blame Martin for taking the money. I think you'd have to say it's on HBO, adapting unfinished work is always going to be a risk.

I'm sure there were people here when this was announced that had concerns about them overtaking the books.
 

Aiii

So not worth it
Hard to blame Martin for taking the money. I think you'd have to say it's on HBO, adapting unfinished work is always going to be a risk.

I'm sure there were people here when this was announced that had concerns about them overtaking the books.
Only after realising that words are wind, especially when it comes to GRRM's promises of actually writing stuff.
 
- IGN: S7 Blu-Ray and Digital Download Release Dates and Bonus Features
Game of Thrones' seventh season will be coming to Blu-ray and DVD this holiday season, with digital downloads available later this month.

HBO will release Game of Thrones: Season 7 on December 12 for Blu-ray and DVD and available for digital download on September 25, IGN can exclusively reveal.

The Blu-ray release will include the exclusive bonus feature "Histories and Lore," a 7-part animated series diving into the background of important season 7 locations and plots, such as The Dragonpit, Highgarden, Prophecies of the Known World, the Rains of Castamere, and more. The series is narrated by members of the cast like Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Aidan Gillen, and more.

The Blu-ray will also feature exclusive in-episode guides, offering information about characters and locations on screen.

Both the Blu-ray and DVD versions of the release will feature the following bonuses:

Conquest & Rebellion: An Animated History of the Seven Kingdoms — Cast members Pilou Asbæk (Euron Greyjoy), Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Aidan Gillen (Littlefinger), Conleth Hill (Varys), Harry Lloyd (Viserys Targaryen), and Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) narrate an animated series focusing on Aegon Targaryen’s attempts to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, written by show writer Dave Hill.
From Imagination to Reality: Inside the Art Department-Extensive — This two-part featurette details production designer Deborah Riley and her art department's work on the show, dissecting the process behind the creation of this season’s incredible new sets, including Dragonstone, Casterly Rock, Highgarden, the Dragonpit, and more.
Fire & Steel: Creating the Invasion of Westeros — This behind-the-scenes feature dives into the season's biggest moments via interviews with the cast and crew.
Audio Commentaries — Each episode will feature commentaries with various cast and crew members, including David Benioff, D.B. Weiss, Jacob Anderson, Gwendoline Christie, Liam Cunningham, Kit Harington, Lena Headey, and more.
Additionally, the digital download package will feature the bonus "Creating the North and Beyond," a behind-the-scenes look at the creation of Season 7, Episode 6's massive battle beyond The Wall.
 
I believe there's a reasonably good chance that Winds of Winter will eventually release. I don't expect there to be another book beyond that, no. Writer's block is a bitch. People really underestimate how it can wreck even the best writers.
I think that also people thinking TWOW will be a return to ASOS form are fooling themselves. It's much more likely to continue the flaws of AFFC/ADWD - granted, I think a lot of those flaws are overblown in the way people talk about them, but it's definitely going to feel more like those books than like ASOS.
 
I don't follow the books, but would the next one be the final one and be able to end the story? Or is there still more planned? I want to jump in to the books, but I dont want to left disappointed either.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't follow the books, but would the next one be the final one and be able to end the story? Or is there still more planned? I want to jump in to the books, but I dont want to left disappointed either.
You will probably be disappointed.

It's taken Martin 7 years to put out "The Winds of Winter" (Book 6 of 7) and it doesn't even have a release date. He's 68, not in great health and almost assuredly hasn't even started on the planned seventh book "A Dream of Spring."

There's also the fact that the sheer scope of the books plot makes it hard to believe he could actually resolve the story even if he managed to get "A Dream of Spring" published.
 
You will probably be disappointed.

It's taken Martin 7 years to put out "The Winds of Winter" (Book 6 of 7) and it doesn't even have a release date. He's 68, not in great health and almost assuredly hasn't even started on the planned seventh book "A Dream of Spring."

There's also the fact that the sheer scope of the books plot makes it hard to believe he could actually resolve the story even if he managed to get "A Dream of Spring" published.
Damn! That really sucks to hear. Was looking forward into getting into the books.
 
I think that also people thinking TWOW will be a return to ASOS form are fooling themselves. It's much more likely to continue the flaws of AFFC/ADWD - granted, I think a lot of those flaws are overblown in the way people talk about them, but it's definitely going to feel more like those books than like ASOS.
Another book on the level of AFFC (my favorite book in the series) would be fine by me. It might not have the "plot" of the first three books but goddamn the world building and writing is top notch.

I just don't think we're getting another book.
 
He's 68, not in great health and almost assuredly hasn't even started on the planned seventh book "A Dream of Spring."

There's also the fact that the sheer scope of the books plot makes it hard to believe he could actually resolve the story even if he managed to get "A Dream of Spring" published.
Do we really know anything about his health? Yes, he's fat, but I've never read about any actual health issues.
I don't follow the books, but would the next one be the final one and be able to end the story? Or is there still more planned? I want to jump in to the books, but I dont want to left disappointed either.
The next book we are all waiting for without complaint is only the penultimate book, which makes the bitching about it all the more pointless. The show was always going to finish first, even if Martin picked up a Stephen King-like pace.

The books are good. Many people don't like the last two, but I think they are both massively improved by reading a combined version (google Boiled Leather or A Ball of Beasts). I don't know if he'll finish the series, but don't deny yourself something that interests you waiting on a slow writer to finish his long and complicated series.