• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

US, Canada, and UK say they have intelligence that Iran shot down Ukraine jet.

TheContact

Member
Jan 22, 2016
3,106
984
555
Holy shit Iran fucked up hard here. They thought they came out of this whole this victorious but now they have at least 4 countries after them asking for an open investigation—which they likely aren’t going to approve. I wonder where this will go?
 

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
2,499
2,698
655
Holy shit Iran fucked up hard here. They thought they came out of this whole this victorious but now they have at least 4 countries after them asking for an open investigation—which they likely aren’t going to approve. I wonder where this will go?
There are 176 souls crying out for justice. They might never get it.

Their body parts along with those of the plane are being dumped in the ocean as we speak probably. What will there be left to "investigate"?
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
6,348
9,326
910
There's one thing that's unmistakably critical about all of this..

Trudeau really needs to take some beard tips from this guy:

It’s hard to grow a masculine beard when on a soy diet. Maybe Trump passed some of his hair serum off to Trudeau and he has been dabbing it on his face.

You know who has a beard game on point? Zodiac Killer himself, Ted Cruz.


And, when watching Trudeau’s press conference, I must admit, the guy behind him had a Sikh beard.
 
Last edited:

sahlberg

Gold Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,153
4,530
540
Moore Park Beach
own up to it, looks like they're actively doing the opposite with how hastily they've cleared the site.
I don't think any investigation really matters at this point and would just be a waste of time.
I mean, we have public videos of a missile hitting the plane ffs.
What are they going to investigate and find? There was possibly a bad solder joint in fuel line 57b ?

It is hilarious how people blame Trump for that.
I heard that the guy at the SAM site that pressed the button was wearing a MAGA hat.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: pramod

TriSuit666

Member
Jul 2, 2018
166
96
210
Well, the word is that they are already bulldozing the crash site now and the black box was damaged, so I don't know about taking responsibility. It doesn't look like they will even pretend to do an actual investigation.
Wow.

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKBN1Z82PK

Also, I owe you an apology. I wasn't convinced it was military intervention to begin with, but the evidence appears incontravertable.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pramod

TriSuit666

Member
Jul 2, 2018
166
96
210
Any military or pilots on here? How easy is it to mistake a plane taking OFF from your own capital as an enemy plane? And its not like the plane was in the air for hours, it had just taken off.

The more I think about it the more odd it seems. A plane takes off from your own territory and within minutes its shot down? I could understand if it took off from Iraq or was flying over Iraq/Iran or something. But to shoot a plane down flying from your own airport within minutes does seem like more than a blunder.

I ain't no aviator or radar guy so maybe there is more to it? Maybe they just see blips and couldn't tell where it took off from?
That's not how it works, there will also be a human in the approval chain, for just this eventuality (accidential launches at non-combatants) - seems each time though in these situations, the human has been the break in the system.

The Bellingcat podcasts on the downing of Flight MH17 does a great job of explaining how a SAM system works and the approval chain.

EDIT: And Bellingcat have confirmed the authenticity and position of the video showing the missile strike Flight 655.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2020/01/09/video-apparently-showing-flight-ps572-missile-strike-geolocated-to-iranian-suburb/
 

sahlberg

Gold Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,153
4,530
540
Moore Park Beach
That's not how it works, there will also be a human in the approval chain, for just this eventuality (accidential launches at non-combatants) - seems each time though in these situations, the human has been the break in the system.

The Bellingcat podcasts on the downing of Flight MH17 does a great job of explaining how a SAM system works and the approval chain.

EDIT: And Bellingcat have confirmed the authenticity and position of the video showing the missile strike Flight 655.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2020/01/09/video-apparently-showing-flight-ps572-missile-strike-geolocated-to-iranian-suburb/
This is my guess. Pure speculation:

It was in the middle of the night. The army folks were on high alert because they had good reason to believe that there could be air retaliation from the US.
Some idiot in Iran did not order all commercial flights to be grounded for 24 hours.
Early in the morning, scared that the americans would bomb their capital, a poorly trained 18 year old recruit wakes up, sees a blip on the radar, thinks it is a b2 bomber, panics and clicks the button.

That is what I think. Wild speculation and nothing at all to back it up, but it is what I think happened. Occams Razor.

It is a fucking tragedy but it was not premeditated. Nor sanctioned or planned by Iran. Someone that is probably dead right now made a terrible terrible mistake.
 
Last edited:

TriSuit666

Member
Jul 2, 2018
166
96
210
This is my guess. Pure speculation:

It was in the middle of the night. The army folks were on high alert because they had good reason to believe that there would be a air retaliation from the US.
Some idiot in Iran did not order all commercial flights to be grounded for 24 hours.
Early in the morning, scared that the americans would bomb their capital, a poorly trained 18 year old recruit wakes up, sees a blip on the radar, thinks it is a b2 bomber, panics and clicks the button.

That is what I think. Wild speculation and nothing at all to back it up, but it is what I think happened. Occams Razor.

It is a fucking tragedy but it was not premeditated. Nor sanctioned or planned by Iran. Someone that is probably dead right now made a terrible terrible mistake.
Yeah, I think the same.

I just can't fathom the common sense though not to order the grounding of all flights until the danger had passed.

Incidentally the wiki for the TOR system describes it having an 'autonomous threat detection and acquisition' system, with an operator reaction time of around 5-8 seconds from detection to launch.
 
Last edited:

redfirm

Member
Mar 12, 2012
817
534
695
Netherlands
This is my guess. Pure speculation:

It was in the middle of the night. The army folks were on high alert because they had good reason to believe that there could be air retaliation from the US.
Some idiot in Iran did not order all commercial flights to be grounded for 24 hours.
Early in the morning, scared that the americans would bomb their capital, a poorly trained 18 year old recruit wakes up, sees a blip on the radar, thinks it is a b2 bomber, panics and clicks the button.

That is what I think. Wild speculation and nothing at all to back it up, but it is what I think happened. Occams Razor.

It is a fucking tragedy but it was not premeditated. Nor sanctioned or planned by Iran. Someone that is probably dead right now made a terrible terrible mistake.
I also believe that the person who did this has been killed on the spot. the iranian army does not fuck around and I believe that the iranian army wil consider the person who did this a traitor or a American spy/insider who had orders to shoot down the plane.
 

redfirm

Member
Mar 12, 2012
817
534
695
Netherlands

IKSTUGA

Member
Jan 9, 2019
634
443
365
One of my colleagues is from Iran and apparently some friends of her family were on that plane. Sad stuff... Should definitely be investigated to see, if the accident was caused by human error or some flaw in the AA system.

Also, solely blaming the US or Trump is akin to "but what were you wearing?".
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Oner

Hotspurr

Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,184
1,306
450
I don't think anyone is saying the US is solely to blame for this. Obviously Iran carries most of the blame.

The question is was Trump wise in doing what he did or was it reckless. Most people think he was reckless, even Tucker on Fox. Trump made a choice to escalate things with Iran, almost knowing for certain they would respond in some way. There is still no justification or explanation how killing 1 person suddenly disrupted so many pre-planned and coordinated attacks. This wasn't a show of strength, because Iran knows how powerful the US military is. Trump just wanted some headlines that he then quickly capitalized on for his upcoming campaign. Iran responded as everyone expected, and as these things go sometimes (US has also accidentally shot down a plane and apologized/paid for it, so I guess incompetence is widespread) collateral damage happens.

Trump is a reckless idiot with some of this blood on this hands, to think otherwise is ignorance.
 

redfirm

Member
Mar 12, 2012
817
534
695
Netherlands
I dont think anyone is blaming trump for this and you simply cant. iran decided to retaliate on their own terms, time and location. this is not on trump, regardless of how much i hate that orange fucktard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cybrwzrd

TriSuit666

Member
Jul 2, 2018
166
96
210
I don't think anyone is saying the US is solely to blame for this. Obviously Iran carries most of the blame.

The question is was Trump wise in doing what he did or was it reckless. Most people think he was reckless, even Tucker on Fox. Trump made a choice to escalate things with Iran, almost knowing for certain they would respond in some way. There is still no justification or explanation how killing 1 person suddenly disrupted so many pre-planned and coordinated attacks. This wasn't a show of strength, because Iran knows how powerful the US military is. Trump just wanted some headlines that he then quickly capitalized on for his upcoming campaign. Iran responded as everyone expected, and as these things go sometimes (US has also accidentally shot down a plane and apologized/paid for it, so I guess incompetence is widespread) collateral damage happens.

Trump is a reckless idiot with some of this blood on this hands, to think otherwise is ignorance.
You have to ask yourself, did Trump already know about the downing of the plane when he made his 'Iran is shutting up shop' speech?

But yes, as you correctly summise, he's an utter fuckwit.
 
Last edited:

redfirm

Member
Mar 12, 2012
817
534
695
Netherlands
You have to ask yourself, did Trump already know about the downing of the plane when he made his 'Iran is shutting up shop' speech?

But yes, as you correctly summise, he's an utter fuckwit.
he did know it at the time, yes. already confirmed by multiple sources that the us was one of the first to know thanks to their satellites.
 

nemiroff

Member
Feb 19, 2018
611
708
405
A few days ago (when there basically was no talk about a AA missile strike) my wife told me that there was someone on the plane from her mother's town in Ukraine and that he had managed to make a phone call to his family after the first strike. He had supposedly said on the phone that someone was shooting at the aircraft. For some reason I didn't believe it so I kinda shrugged it off..
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
  • Triggered
Reactions: MDSLKTR and pramod

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
9,112
11,745
975
I don't think anyone is saying the US is solely to blame for this. Obviously Iran carries most of the blame.

The question is was Trump wise in doing what he did or was it reckless. Most people think he was reckless, even Tucker on Fox. Trump made a choice to escalate things with Iran, almost knowing for certain they would respond in some way. There is still no justification or explanation how killing 1 person suddenly disrupted so many pre-planned and coordinated attacks. This wasn't a show of strength, because Iran knows how powerful the US military is. Trump just wanted some headlines that he then quickly capitalized on for his upcoming campaign. Iran responded as everyone expected, and as these things go sometimes (US has also accidentally shot down a plane and apologized/paid for it, so I guess incompetence is widespread) collateral damage happens.

Trump is a reckless idiot with some of this blood on this hands, to think otherwise is ignorance.
no the only reckless idiots are those in Iran that shot down this plane and 52 people died at a stampede at a funereal.
 

dolabla

Member
Oct 9, 2013
4,453
6,665
775
I don't think anyone is saying the US is solely to blame for this. Obviously Iran carries most of the blame.

The question is was Trump wise in doing what he did or was it reckless. Most people think he was reckless, even Tucker on Fox. Trump made a choice to escalate things with Iran, almost knowing for certain they would respond in some way. There is still no justification or explanation how killing 1 person suddenly disrupted so many pre-planned and coordinated attacks. This wasn't a show of strength, because Iran knows how powerful the US military is. Trump just wanted some headlines that he then quickly capitalized on for his upcoming campaign. Iran responded as everyone expected, and as these things go sometimes (US has also accidentally shot down a plane and apologized/paid for it, so I guess incompetence is widespread) collateral damage happens.

Trump is a reckless idiot with some of this blood on this hands, to think otherwise is ignorance.
What a load of garbage.

Trump has blood on his hands because the Iranians were dumbasses and allowed planes to fly that night which then ended in a plane being blown out of the sky by them themselves? That takes some severe mental gymnastics/TDS. Is Trump responsible for the stampede at the funeral too?
 
Last edited:

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
9,112
11,745
975
Lets just blame the 1953 coup on 7 year old Trump and complete the circle. Can't talk about Iran without mentioning the coup from 70 years ago.

Trump convinced Churchill and Eisnehower when he was 7 to do the coup and its all his fault.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
30,436
39,491
1,170
What a load of garbage.

Trump has blood on his hands because the Iranians were dumbasses and allowed planes to fly that night which then ended in a plane being blown out of the sky by them themselves? That takes some severe mental gymnastics/TDS. Is Trump responsible for the stampede at the funeral too?
Let him have his "bigotry of low expectations" towards Iran.
 

Hotspurr

Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,184
1,306
450
You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
9,112
11,745
975
You can defend Iran all you want but their actions directly led to the deaths that could have been easily been avoided if they had taken a more level headed approach.
 

Hotspurr

Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,184
1,306
450
You can defend Iran all you want but their actions directly led to the deaths that could have been easily been avoided if they had taken a more level headed approach.
Not defending Iran. They carry most of the blame. Some of the blame rests on Trump as well. Nuance is hard, I know.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
19,951
40,708
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
Weaksauce kafkatrap. You're more obsessed with Trump than his own supporters.
 

pennythots

Member
May 14, 2019
1,248
1,957
475
You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
are you a troll account someone is using to have a giggle
 

CDiggity

Member
Jan 3, 2014
1,230
305
495
Lets just blame the 1953 coup on 7 year old Trump and complete the circle. Can't talk about Iran without mentioning the coup from 70 years ago.

Trump convinced Churchill and Eisnehower when he was 7 to do the coup and its all his fault.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
6,348
9,326
910
Lets just blame the 1953 coup on 7 year old Trump and complete the circle. Can't talk about Iran without mentioning the coup from 70 years ago.

Trump convinced Churchill and Eisnehower when he was 7 to do the coup and its all his fault.
Naw, Trump is responsible for the 1941 Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran, which was done out of fears that Iran was sympathetic to Nazi Germany (also led by Trump), which gave the British business interests in Iran which made Churchill convince Trump to convince Churchill and Eisenhower to support the coup for the Shah when it appeared that Iran was potentially going communist in '51.
 
Last edited:
Dec 15, 2011
6,162
14,923
1,090
You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
Given your proven total lack of understanding of words such as "overwhelming" and "evidence", it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you also fail to understand the distinction between "directly" and "indirectly".
 

accel

Member
Sep 11, 2015
897
395
520
You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
No. Indirectly, yes. Directly, no. Words have meanings, let's follow them.
 
Last edited:

buizel

Member
Feb 19, 2018
803
976
400
obviousely it was shot down are you all suprised for some reason?

oh u killed some arab dude
we all love him
there will be retribution united states

PLANE CRASHES IN ARAB or whatever

trump: they love me there he'll probly send me a vase.

is trump pussy to bomb em back? lets do this boiz
 

Mihos

Gold Member
May 10, 2009
6,896
2,550
1,105
steamcommunity.com
If Hillary wasn't a shit candidate, then trump wouldn't have won, to then authorize a strike on a military target, which then wouldn't have required a counter attack, which then wouldn't have ended with them shooting down their own plane...

So Hillary has blood on her hands, to think otherwise is ignorance.
 
Last edited:

Teletraan1

Member
May 17, 2012
6,931
4,679
670
Canada
Trump was the snake that got Eve to eat the apple. There is overwhelming evidence that is the case. The blood of every sin in history is directly on his hands. Defend him all you want you fucking cultists. #cult45 #istartedfollowingpoliticsin2015
 

Hotspurr

Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,184
1,306
450
No. Indirectly, yes. Directly, no. Words have meanings, let's follow them.
That's fair.

I should also add, there is great irony with regards to how people are quick to attribute ISIS to Obama and whatever he did with the Iran deal, but when Trump responds in a wholely disproportionate way, putting the two countries at the risk of war, god forbid we criticize him. When there is fallout and collateral damage due to a situation he escalated, no we can't say anything. Orange man always and forever good because Democrats bad.
 

Sacred

Member
Aug 22, 2018
602
683
320
You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
All I hear is screaming at the sky, I will enjoy when you have to continue doing it for 4 more years.

On topic, shameless act by Iran and my prayers go out to the victims of this horrific attack. Whether an accident or not, they decided to fire the missles that lead to this and I hope justice will be served on these cowards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A Regular Guy

dionysus

Yaldog
May 12, 2007
6,783
839
1,285
Texaa
The odds of a ground attack rocket accidentally hitting a plane are astronomical. No, the actual scenario would be a surface to air missile deliberately fired at the plane after they misidentified it.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
30,436
39,491
1,170
Not defending Iran. They carry most of the blame. Some of the blame rests on Trump as well. Nuance is hard, I know.
TIL: The President of the United States can't abort terrorists protecting American soldiers and contractors overseas in and on going theater, because their host countries might act a fool.

Your "nuance" is head canon swirling around like mental diarrhea.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cryptoadam