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US, Canada, and UK say they have intelligence that Iran shot down Ukraine jet.

NickFire

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Mar 12, 2014
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He will *never* be anything ever again. Not President, governor, nor mayor.
He deserves all the mocking monikers he can get now. That was beyond the pale of going low and he should be ashamed of himself for exposing himself as a fraud. If you want to paint yourself as a firebrand then lob away with the hot takes. But when pretend you'd be the unifier in chief and pull shit like that, you're just another run of the mill political whore.

Seriously Pete, don't run as the anti-trump and then act like him. He got a lot of votes just for being an unashamed asshole. Hillary lost a lot of votes for pretending not to be an asshole. You'd think everyone in your party would know this by now.
 

dolabla

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Oct 9, 2013
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You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
Nice rant :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

sahlberg

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Oct 27, 2017
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You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
This is an attempt at comedy?

Ok, I can play this game too. Why does the responsibility end with Trump?
Remember, had Obama not embraced Hillary as the candidate in 2016 and instead embraced someone else Trump would not even be president today.

Thus, Obama embracing Hillary _IN_directly led to the shooting down of this plane.
I am using your argument, thus some of the blood is on Obamas hands.

That is how ridiculous the argument is.
 

KingGhidorah

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Jul 28, 2019
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You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
:messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

A wild reset-eran appears

Just because there's a causal chain from Trump's action, does not make him responsible

If Iran didn't attack US embassy, none of this would happen
If Soleimani wasn't such of an asshole terrorist, none of this would happen
If US-Iran were never in conflict, none of this would happen
If missiles and airplane were never invented, none of this would happen
If cavemen had never evolved, none of this would happen

there's always causal chain that leads one thing to another, that doesn't make Trump responsible. The only ones responsible are those who gave the order to shoot down the plane without double checking and those who didn't shutdown the airspace for civilian planes
 
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TheContact

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Jan 22, 2016
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I definitely think it was an accident but that they also did it. Iran needs to own up to it, but given their recent comments they won’t. The intel will come out that they did and it will be extremely bad for them. They aren’t NK; their people will know. This is a HUGE blunder by Iran. The US took a long time to live down flight 655 and Iran should own up to this and pay reparations where they are due. I don’t see them doing that though.
 

TheContact

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You can defend the orange man all you want, but his actions directly led to deaths that could have easily been avoided had he taken a more level headed approach.
He's a mediocre businessman, a cheating and lying husband, and now a shit president. What a legacy, and even better, he has won the hearts and minds of the least educated part of America.
I’m usually on your side here but trump didn’t pull the trigger on this flight—Iran did. you can say it was his fault we got to this position in the first place but he could not have anticipated this happening. Iran mistakenly shot down a plane exiting their own airport but if you look at how it was done, it was due to extreme incompetence on Iran’s part. I’m not a fan of Trump at all. I have so many issues with him as being president, but to say this was his fault at all is just wrong. I will concede that the intel as to -why- we killed Soleimani is sketchy at best, as Pompeo contradicted himself when he said the threat was “imminent” but also couldn’t tell us where or even when the the supposed attack was going to occur, but 100% Iran pulled the trigger on this and they need to take responsibility for it despite whatever ill intentions you think got us to this point to begin with.
 
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Ovek

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May 30, 2013
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I had the most insane conversation today with someone who truly believes that America shot down the airliner on purpose to “frame” Iran, to what end I have no idea. It was the most bullshit conspiracy garbage I’ve heard in quite some time.
 

DeepEnigma

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Dec 3, 2013
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I had the most insane conversation today with someone who truly believes that America shot down the airliner on purpose to “frame” Iran, to what end I have no idea. It was the most bullshit conspiracy garbage I’ve heard in quite some time.
Did you do the world a service and politely ask them not to breed?
 

Teletraan1

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I had the most insane conversation today with someone who truly believes that America shot down the airliner on purpose to “frame” Iran, to what end I have no idea. It was the most bullshit conspiracy garbage I’ve heard in quite some time.
Have you been asleep for the last 3 years of Manchurian candidate screeching?
 
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Gargus

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I dont think anyone is blaming trump for this and you simply cant. iran decided to retaliate on their own terms, time and location. this is not on trump, regardless of how much i hate that orange fucktard.
You can't blame him anymore than you can't blame a judge for sentencing a man to death for a great many atrocities. Then that mans family kills a bunch of cops for the death of the criminal.

But a great many people want to hate trump so badly they will abandon all logic and reason to find excuses to hate him.
 

pramod

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Oct 24, 2017
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I saw some rumor that Iran is going to actually admit tomorrow it was an inadvertent missile that brought down the plane.

I'll believe it when I see it though. But I still think eventually they have no choice but to eat this loss. This sort of cover up will destroy any kind of credibility they have left in the world community, and even worse, any sort of trust its people have left in the regime.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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I saw some rumor that Iran is going to actually admit tomorrow it was an inadvertent missile that brought down the plane.

I'll believe it when I see it though. But I still think eventually they have no choice but to eat this loss. This sort of cover up will destroy any kind of credibility they have left in the world community, and even worse, any sort of trust its people have left in the regime.
I don't believe it. Like you, I'll believe they admit defeat when I see it.

They've been 100% hardcore in denial so far. It would be a weird if they suddenly did a 180 just 24 hrs later.

As for trust, I doubt many Iranian even trust their own government.

I wouldn't trust them. And it has nothing to do with religion or wars with nearby countries. Instead simple economics. Any country that has shitloads of oil, yet still has trouble creating a first tier city has to be fucking up so bad with poor governance. Venezuela same boat. Shitloads of oil = shitloads of money for government and local companies and workers. Yet, somehow they act broke.

It's like finding out your neighbour inherited millions of dollars. Instead of coasting and leading a decent life and using the money to keep fueling investments so more can be left for grandkids, somehow all the money is gone, his home is grungy, and he doesn't have enough money to buy a decent car. Where the hell did all the cash go?
 
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TheContact

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I don't believe it. Like you, I'll believe they admit defeat when I see it.

They've been 100% hardcore in denial so far. It would be a weird if they suddenly did a 180 just 24 hrs later.

As for trust, I doubt many Iranian even trust their own government.

I wouldn't trust them. And it has nothing to do with religion or wars with nearby countries. Instead simple economics. Any country that has shitloads of oil, yet still has trouble creating a first tier city has to be fucking up so bad with poor governance. Venezuela same boat. Shitloads of oil = shitloads of money for government and local companies and workers. Yet, somehow they act broke.
i could see them doing it only because the evidence is overwhelming and they will look worse coming off as liars than admitting a mistake despite their adamance thus far that they did not shoot it down
 
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Woo-Fu

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I wonder what exactly the evidence is?

I suspect the US has a better grasp of what exactly is going on in Iranian airspace at any given time than they'd like to advertise(for good reason). Show it to a small group of high level people in Canada/UK who you trust as long term allies so you don't reveal the extent of your capabilities to your enemies.

It'll be radar tracks and/or camera footage from stealth platforms.

The real problem will be independent corroboration. It isn't like the black boxes are going to show missile tracks, I'd assume at best they'd show an engine in with good telemetry turn instantly into an engine with bad telemetry. Maybe that was a missile, maybe it was some sort of catastrophic mechanical failure.

And hey, I'm leaning towards some idiot with an itchy trigger finger running a missile battery too. That said, if the only evidence is what a small group of Iranian military know firsthand and data from the US I would expect the Iranians to go with mechanical failure and call the US a bunch of imperialist liars.
 

Hotspurr

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I’m usually on your side here but trump didn’t pull the trigger on this flight—Iran did. you can say it was his fault we got to this position in the first place but he could not have anticipated this happening. Iran mistakenly shot down a plane exiting their own airport but if you look at how it was done, it was due to extreme incompetence on Iran’s part. I’m not a fan of Trump at all. I have so many issues with him as being president, but to say this was his fault at all is just wrong. I will concede that the intel as to -why- we killed Soleimani is sketchy at best, as Pompeo contradicted himself when he said the threat was “imminent” but also couldn’t tell us where or even when the the supposed attack was going to occur, but 100% Iran pulled the trigger on this and they need to take responsibility for it despite whatever ill intentions you think got us to this point to begin with.
Trump had the power to de-escalate the situation and instead chose to escalate it, leading to Iran firing rockets and there being collateral damage (regardless of how this damage occured). He is responsible for escalation, Iran bears most of the blame, but pretending he did nothing wrong and shares none of the blame is absurd.
 

Hotspurr

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:messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

A wild reset-eran appears

Just because there's a causal chain from Trump's action, does not make him responsible

If Iran didn't attack US embassy, none of this would happen
If Soleimani wasn't such of an asshole terrorist, none of this would happen
If US-Iran were never in conflict, none of this would happen
If missiles and airplane were never invented, none of this would happen
If cavemen had never evolved, none of this would happen

there's always causal chain that leads one thing to another, that doesn't make Trump responsible. The only ones responsible are those who gave the order to shoot down the plane without double checking and those who didn't shutdown the airspace for civilian planes
Absolutely, Iran attacking the embassy was the catalyst for this most recent episode. Trump had a choice to make, he chose to escalate for a BS reason that he once again can't justify (same with Ukraine aid, surprise surprise). It seems to most paying attention that he did it for headlines, which was risky and reckless. When he explains how killing 1 person stopped several "imminent" attacks , given that the general was replaced the same day and usually such attacks have many people involved, I will consider his actions justified. Likewise, if he thought killing the general will scare and intimidate Iran for them to abandon the attacks, that could be the only plausible explanation here as far as I can tell, but they aren't really running with that because it's understood Iran is perfectly aware of what the US army is capable of.

Look people here defended Trump for redirecting hurricanes with a sharpie, I'm not expecting much, but if you're going to engage my posts at least understand that obviously Iran is mostly responsible but in no way is Trump absolved of all responsibility for the fallout.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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Iran admits they are at fault

I must say I’m impressed they admitted it. That must have been some bitter medicine for them to taste.

I am deeply worried about the guy who posted the video though. I pray he stays safe and anonymous.
 
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dragonfart28

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Iran admits they are at fault



“A sad day,” Iran’s Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif tweeted. “Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster. Our profound regrets, apologies and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations.”

Way to go America.
 
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ClanOfNone

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"Human error." I wonder what happened to the poor sods that pushed the button, and the CO that ordered it.
 

TheContact

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Trump had the power to de-escalate the situation and instead chose to escalate it, leading to Iran firing rockets and there being collateral damage (regardless of how this damage occured). He is responsible for escalation, Iran bears most of the blame, but pretending he did nothing wrong and shares none of the blame is absurd.
Really the only thing Trump did was airstrike the militia which he thought was responsible for the contractor’s death, then Airstrike the leader who organized the raid on the embassy. He didn’t do anything after this. Iran said they were going to retaliate, which they did, and trump did de escalate the next day when he said the only thing he was going to do was more economic sanctions on Iran. I will note I don’t agree that he said he would airstrike cultural sites, but he never did.

What Iran did in their response which was just a show of force if you could call it that was essentially putting a blindfold on, swinging around at a piñata, hit it once, then on their next swing managed to crack their own head open. Basically, “it hurt itself in its confusion”. You could argue Trump hoisted the piñata up to begin with but he never put a bat in Iran’s hand and told them to swing at it. There’s a lot of other things Trump deserves blame on; this is not one of them.
 

dragonfart28

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This should have never happened in the first place.

The US provided no evidence for starting this whole mess and there was no reason they couldn't find a non-violent solution to whatever threat they allegedly felt.

Another blunder to add to the pile.
 
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Zefah

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This should have never happened in the first place.

The US provided no evidence for starting this whole mess and there was no reason they couldn't find a non-violent solution to whatever threat they allegedly felt.

Another blunder to add to the pile.
Regardless of your thoughts on whether or not Trump was justified in taking out Soleimani, you can't pin Iran's massive fuck up of shooting down a plane full of innocents on the US. That's just crazy.
 

pramod

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This should have never happened in the first place.

The US provided no evidence for starting this whole mess and there was no reason they couldn't find a non-violent solution to whatever threat they allegedly felt.

Another blunder to add to the pile.
What would be a non violent way to make Iran stop trying to kill American soldiers? Weve already sanctioned everything that can be sanctioned in their economy.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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This should have never happened in the first place.

The US provided no evidence for starting this whole mess and there was no reason they couldn't find a non-violent solution to whatever threat they allegedly felt.

Another blunder to add to the pile.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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Mohonky

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Im actually also quite surprised they admitted to it.

Though they were probably shown all the logs the other nations had on tracking data and were told to admit to it or have it dragged out.

Seemed a pretty straight forward case to begin with, plane crashes on the same night your armed forces are sending out volleys of missiles....like what are the odds
 
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TheContact

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At least now those poor families and maybe the victims souls will have some closure.

Maybe there is some humanity in those mullahs after all.
not really. They admitted it to save face since there was overwhelming evidence they shot it down. The truth would have come out in the investigations. They knew they shot it down when they lied about it initially. They were just hoping they could get away with it.
 

dragonfart28

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Franz Ferdinand is an apt comparison for this whole thing.

When you take out a high ranking official with no justification, it creates a domino effect which leads to more violence.

The US is still hasn't produced a shred of evidence to support an 'imminent threat' and the reason for that is that there was no threat.
 
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May 11, 2011
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We saw incompetent Russians shoot down that Malaysian Airlines flight over the Ukraine a while ago and now we see the Iranians do the same thing.
Everyone makes mistakes, but these are really huge fuck ups.
RIP to the victims.
 

Woo-Fu

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This should have never happened in the first place.

The US provided no evidence for starting this whole mess and there was no reason they couldn't find a non-violent solution to whatever threat they allegedly felt.

Another blunder to add to the pile.
The US didn't "start this whole mess". We've admittedly manage to quite often make it worse, particularly when it comes to Iran, but the Middle East wasn't exactly a theme park before the oil.

When's the last time time we attacked an embassy? When's the last time we had somebody in charge of setting up militias to kill our enemies, citizens of our allies who aren't of the proper race/religious sect, and even our own people if they show the slightest bit of unrest? When's the last time we put mines in the Strait of Hormuz or the gulf? How about the last time we illegally seized tankers in the gulf? How about the last time we attacked Saudi oilfields with a combined drone and missile attack?

I guess as long as Iran and its proxies isn't harming any members of your immediate family we should simply ignore their actions? Quite frankly: Fuck that.

Oh, and bringing up Franz Ferdinand displays a profound ignorance of the differences in the world then and the world today and both situations. For starters Austria-Hungary wanted a war with Serbia. Iran would love to win a war with the US but until that is even remotely possible they're not going to want one. They could have declared one at any point in the past 40 years. Have they? No. If they did would any country outside of the middle east fully commit alongside them? No. This isn't a prelude to a world war, no matter how many times you cry the sky is falling.
 
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Dec 15, 2011
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From the AP article:

“A sad day,” Iran’s Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif tweeted. “Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster. Our profound regrets, apologies and condolences to our people, to the families of all victims, and to other affected nations.”
"We fired the missles, but we're not to blame".

As pennythots pennythots succintly puts it:

Fuck that bitch Eve for eating that apple
Isn't it telling that people decide to connect blurry dots only as far as their confirmation bias permits. And then, once their preferred target has been placed in their blame-laying crosshairs, they stop looking further back in a sequence of events. Incident Zero is whatever they decide it is.

You cannot appeal to logic and then reject that same logic in the same argument. Not if you wish for your position to be taken seriously.
 

rofif

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Seriously. I could take my nikon p900 camera and zoom on the plane to see what model it is and read the writing on a side.... Military should be able to do better
 
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Guynamedbilly

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If Hillary wasn't a shit candidate, then trump wouldn't have won, to then authorize a strike on a military target, which then wouldn't have required a counter attack, which then wouldn't have ended with them shooting down their own plane...

So Hillary has blood on her hands, to think otherwise is ignorance.
Can you visualize all the blood on the hands of the people that voted for her in the primary? Oh, the humanity.
 
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dragonfart28

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Franz Ferdinand Are Trending After Suleimani Assassination
On Twitter, Kaparos responded to this surreal mix of events, saying, “This is not how I wanted to see the name of my band trending on Twitter #FranzFerdinand.” When a user suggested they maybe should’ve seen it coming when they chose such a name, Kaparos replied, “I naively presumed that history was something best learned from rather than repeated.”


Maybe we'll get a new album
 
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Feb 22, 2018
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‘I wish i was dead’: Senior IRGC commander accepts full responsibility for downing Ukrainian plane, apologizes to nation

It was mistaken for a cruise missile. He had 10 seconds to make a decision. The military did not inform the Iranian government for 24 hours afterwards. Well at least he won't be getting a medal since he doesn't work for the US navy, where they hand out medals for downed airliners. Small consolation for the families of the deceased, but its something.

Compensation will be paid to families, but I hope they don't get caught up in the sanctions regime. Receiving money from the Iranian government is a crime according to the US government. Many Canadians could end up on US watch lists.

Also the crash site was not bulldozed, that's fake news. Ukrainian inspectors are there right now combing through the wreckage. They found the cockpit with a hole in it, where the missile struck.
 
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