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US- 'Concussion' Doctor: Letting Kids Play Football is 'Definition of Child Abuse'

Hugstable

Banned
Aug 3, 2012
11,981
0
490
Merced, CA
Yeah it's pretty bad, but I doubt it going to be going away anytime soon due to how ingrained it is into america already. Played Football for 7 years and finally had to quit after my junior year of high school because I got to a point where I was getting intense migraines almost all day. Had a head surgery when I was 1 or 2 years old (got a big ole scar across my head) and I'm sure that didn't help, but the intense nature of the game usually ends up with alot of kids hitting helmets straight on at a fast speed (which isn't even how it should be played) and ends up very dangerous. Doesn't help that some coaches in pop warner leagues would even run dangerous practice drills like Bull Rings (don't know if they still do that these days, but fuck that, shit is gonna end up with tons of concussions). Like I enjoy football, but something needs to change. Scary for kids/high school leagues too as they really don't have any oversight on this stuff and we end up with stories like coaches making them do military training exercises that ends up with someone dead.
 

Ninja Scooter

Member
Jun 7, 2004
123,697
7
0
I doubt school football is going anywhere. Here's the dark reality: Plenty of shitty parents don't care about abuse if it leads to the possibility of fame and fortune.

They'll ignore physical abuse if it leads to a scholarship (young athletes destroying their bodies).
They'll ignore emotional/mental abuse if it gets their kid into a top college (high suicide rate among overachieving students).
They'll ignore sexual abuse if it gets their kid connected with a star or celebrity (innumerable Hollywood sex scandals).

What we need is more widespread education on parenting, and a total re-evaluation of the ways we push our kids to succeed at all costs.

In a world where we still got dumbfuck anti-vaxxers who have no qualms denying the obvious science putting their kids in danger, I don't doubt there will still be dumb ass parents who deny the science here (fake news!). My hope is that eventually the choice will be made for them, either because schools do the right thing and get rid of football, or do it out of fear of litigation.
 

Goldenroad

Member
Jun 14, 2012
8,421
0
0
Canada
I don't get why more parents don't get their kids into Water Polo. That shit was all kinds of fun. The only equipment you need is a bathing suit and, while it can get crazy violent underwater, the worst that's gonna happen is you're gonna end up with some scratches and bruises. Insanely good exercise too.
 

tmarg

Member
Jun 2, 2013
2,482
0
0
Kalamazoo
Anyway, do you guys have touch rules for kids? That's what happens with rugby here. All kids start with what's basically touch rugby, then tackling is slowly introduced as they grow older and even then, tackles above the chest are banned. There's plenty of arguments out there that say it actually produces better players and is one of the main reasons why NZ rugby is so dominant, as it puts all the emphasis on basic skills at an early age.

We have flag football. Basically you have a strip of cloth tucked into your uniform and if someone pulls it off you are considered tackled. The problem is that it's much less popular than tackle, and also blocking is still violent, and there is really no way to get rid of that without completely changing the game.
 

Ninja Scooter

Member
Jun 7, 2004
123,697
7
0
We have flag football. Basically you have a strip of cloth tucked into your uniform and if someone pulls it off you are considered tackled. The problem is that it's much less popular than tackle, and also blocking is still violent, and there is really no way to get rid of that without completely changing the game.

Get rid of the offensive line. Replace them with 4 Mississippis.
 

QuantumZebra

Member
Dec 5, 2013
10,398
3,233
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Atlanta, GA
Fuck school football. Even outside of the excessive risk of physical harm there's way too much bullshit going on there on all levels of education.

Honestly, I don't even like school sports at all. School should be about academics. Linking sports causes more problems than it's worth.

I actually agree with this to an extent.

Make it rec-league or bust till college.
 
Jan 15, 2015
2,846
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chicago
Let's be safe and just ban all sports.

*has disliked sports since childhood*
We don't let kids drink alcohol because it damages the brain.
We don't let kids do drugs because it damages the brain.
Why should we let's kids do an activity which is known to cause massive damage to the body and the brain?
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
10,849
68
1,560
The NFL needs to diversify away from football. Why not purchase MLS or start a new soccer league and bring NFL production quality to it.
 

Naudi

Banned
May 9, 2012
968
63
0
I Coach a 5th and 6th grade team, we do zero full contact tackling at practice. Want to take a wild guess what #1 complaint from parents is?
 

BlitzKeeg

Member
Dec 14, 2013
766
0
345
New York, U.S.
Only reasonable solution is to ban all physical sports.

This is eSports' chance!

Thought the same when I read it.

C'mon guys. If you force your kids to start playing Street Fighter at age 6, the US might one day be able to beat Japan and Korea.

Also the games are 4 minutes instead of 4 hours.
 

entremet

Member
Dec 6, 2008
85,707
385
1,585
The NFL needs to diversify away from football. Why not purchase MLS or start a new soccer league and bring NFL production quality to it.

If they were smart and thought the long game, they would do this. But NFL is very old school. Remember the game has military academy origins and has put much of its image on base jingoism. So I really doubt it. American Football is either going to die or change drastically.
 

tmarg

Member
Jun 2, 2013
2,482
0
0
Kalamazoo
The NFL needs to diversify away from football. Why not purchase MLS or start a new soccer league and bring NFL production quality to it.

A professional soccer league won't take off in the US unless it's able to field teams that are competitive internationally, and there isn't anywhere near enough money in American soccer to attract that level of talent.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
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A professional soccer league won't take off in the US unless it's able to field teams that are competitive internationally, and there isn't anywhere near enough money in American soccer to attract that level of talent.

It has already taken off. The average team is now valued at $185 million. MLS is broadcast in 170 countries. 2016 viewership rose 8%. Average game attendance 22,000.

As American football dies, NFL could take the reigns of one of the fastest growing U.S. sports.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Jun 20, 2013
13,177
0
0
The NFL needs to diversify away from football. Why not purchase MLS or start a new soccer league and bring NFL production quality to it.

They can give it all the NFL production quality they want, it won't make MLS any more interesting to those who find soccer boring to watch.

American football will never die off. It makes way too much money.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 26, 2006
5,510
0
0
Really tough. American football is super popular. You could remove it from high school, but it's not going anywhere in college / NFL. But you know it damages everyone involved, but it's so popular no one cares

It is a start. If children dont play it on schools, how they will may it later at college? Plus it us more likely they won't watch it either.

The change won't happen overnight, but will happen.
 

Salty Rice

Member
Feb 1, 2016
5,292
1
255
Thought he was talking about real Football for a second and was confused.

But yes HandEgg has a high concussion risk and isnt the best thing for children.
 

Albino_Yeti

Member
Jul 17, 2014
1,108
0
0
Time to start playing soccer America
Never!


Hopefully football apparel companies start feeling the heat and do some hard research into making safer helmets and pads, because while the popularity of football is still astronomical, actual participation is going to steadily decline.
 

K-Gun

Member
Apr 15, 2013
227
0
520
Contact sports are dangerous. We should have banned Boxing a long time ago, it was the top dog for sport at one point. Eventually the talent went elsewhere, athletes grew tired of getting their heads caved in. This will sort itself out over the next generation or two. We can put an end to it sooner, we won't. Hell, we enjoy the fuck out of watching people hurt each other. Two weeks from now everyone will be glued to their tvs for the lol match of the century.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Mar 22, 2007
10,849
68
1,560
They can give it all the NFL production quality they want, it won't make MLS any more interesting to those who find soccer boring to watch.

American football will never die off. It makes way too much money.

At the current rate it will absolutely die. Youth participation in football is already down 14% from its high. If you exclude flag football and girls football total football participation has plunged. No young athletes = no professional athletes.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 26, 2006
5,510
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???, going by that logic if my child wants to start riding in rodeos I should let him or her?

By his (lack of) logic it is okay if the kids start to shoot each other with guns.

That is the very definition of parenting. Teaching and limits.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Aug 20, 2008
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905
London
Never!


Hopefully football apparel companies start feeling the heat and do some hard research into making safer helmets and pads, because while the popularity of football is still astronomical, actual participation is going to steadily decline.
There is no such thing as a safer helmet, unless you can create something that stops the brain shaking around in your skull at even small knocks let alone full tackles.

Spoiler
it's not possible
 

jackal27

Banned
Jun 29, 2012
5,269
0
480
Joplin, MO
Yep. My kids are playing basketball or baseball if anything. I love soccer too, but man I've seen some bad injuries in my time...

It's just so insane to me that we have children experiencing these life-altering injuries when there are clearly other, safer ways to stay healthy, athletic, and learn discipline. I don't get it.
 

BBboy20

Member
Sep 9, 2013
10,070
1
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Gotta' make your son grow up to be a violent alpha. That's the American Way. Teach them to dominate and conquer everyone else.
 

Violence Jack

Member
Jun 20, 2013
13,177
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0
At the current rate it will absolutely die. Youth participation in football is already down 14% from its high. If you exclude flag football and girls football total football participation has plunged. No young athletes = no professional athletes.

That's not going to stop them from playing in college if they want to. Many current NFL players didn't even play football until they got to college.
 

Albino_Yeti

Member
Jul 17, 2014
1,108
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0
There is no such thing as a safer helmet, unless you can create something that stops the brain shaking around in your skull at even small knocks let alone full tackles.

Spoiler
it's not possible
Maybe it's not possible yet...Science is always redefining what is and isn't possible .

Gotta' make your son grow up to be a violent alpha. That's the American Way. Teach them to dominate and conquer everyone else.

Lol really? Just because it's a competitive contact sport doesn't mean you're teaching your kids to be a 'violent alpha'.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Aug 20, 2008
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Maybe it's not possible yet...Science is always redefining what is and isn't possible .
You would need iron man's suit that magically doesn't leave him as some paste when getting bashed around by hulk etc. for it to be worth the risk and that just isn't possible.

And the argument that 'well let's let untold kids and adults permanently damage their brains for entertainment and hope some magical fix comes along years down the line' doesn't really work for me.
 

duxstar

Member
Jan 13, 2010
1,947
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I Coach a 5th and 6th grade team, we do zero full contact tackling at practice. Want to take a wild guess what #1 complaint from parents is?

Good luck .... i did it one year ago and it was miserable, parents were absolutely the worst, one time i got yelled at for not having a "physical practice" then 5 minutes later when one of the kids got the wind got knocked out of him during an oklohoma drill i got yelled at for being too physical.

Parents are terrible
 
Nov 17, 2012
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Ohio
Maybe it's not possible yet...Science is always redefining what is and isn't possible .



Lol really? Just because it's a competitive contact sport doesn't mean you're teaching your kids to be a 'violent alpha'.

I guess you could genetically engineer people to be made for Football ; gonna suck when one decides he wants to be a rocket scientist and is denied because his hands are suction cups.
 

Albino_Yeti

Member
Jul 17, 2014
1,108
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You would need iron man's suit that magically doesn't leave him as some paste when getting bashed around by hulk etc. for it to be worth the risk and that just isn't possible.

And the argument that 'well let's let untold kids and adults permanently damage their brains for entertainment and hope some magical fix comes along years down the line' doesn't really work for me.
I know I'll get flack for this, but the adults that choose to play know the risks. It's the same as adults that choose to smoke cigarettes.
I don't know if kids are at that much risk though. The article only goes as low as high school, but are 10 year olds really hitting each other hard enough to cause brain damage? Maybe I'm just biased because I come from a football family lol.
I guess you could genetically engineer people to be made for Football ; gonna suck when one decides he wants to be a rocket scientist and is denied because his hands are suction cups.
On the bright side, he would make an excellent Spiderman stunt double.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Jul 31, 2007
39,660
0
0
Ya, getting rid of helmets would probably go some way in lessening how the players use their heads as tackling instruments (which is still insane to me).

It'll never happen, but would be an interesting experiment.

Facemasks alone may do the trick.
 
I know I'll get flack for this, but the adults that choose to play know the risks. It's the same as adults that choose to smoke cigarettes.
I don't know if kids are at that much risk though. The article only goes as low as high school, but are 10 year olds really hitting each other hard enough to cause brain damage? Maybe I'm just biased because I come from a football family lol.

Depends on the coach/program. That's kind of the issue with youth sports, some people realize it's about learning discipline and doing something that lets you compete and be healthy. Other people want to treat it like some spartan death cult where their son can magically ascend into the NFL or some garbage. It's like gambling, except you get head trauma along with losing all your money.
 

Lubricus

Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,213
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0
Georgia
Depends on the coach/program. That's kind of the issue with youth sports, some people realize it's about learning discipline and doing something that lets you compete and be healthy. Other people want to treat it like some spartan death cult where their son can magically ascend into the NFL or some garbage. It's like gambling, except you get head trauma along with losing all your money.

An extreme example, "Biggest Football Hits Ever - Amateur & Kids football Version"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBlbLH3bEtQ
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Dec 5, 2008
17,107
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I know I'll get flack for this, but the adults that choose to play know the risks. It's the same as adults that choose to smoke cigarettes.
I don't know if kids are at that much risk though. The article only goes as low as high school, but are 10 year olds really hitting each other hard enough to cause brain damage? Maybe I'm just biased because I come from a football family lol.

No they didn't? The science is just coming out now, how would the adults who started playing 20 years ago know the risks when literally no one did?
 

BeatnikGunsoo

Member
Jan 18, 2014
1,559
0
0
Yeah my uncle in law who is a big football fan is transitioning my cousin to baseball which is way safer and easier on the body
 

Ninja Scooter

Member
Jun 7, 2004
123,697
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I know I'll get flack for this, but the adults that choose to play know the risks. It's the same as adults that choose to smoke cigarettes.
I don't know if kids are at that much risk though. The article only goes as low as high school, but are 10 year olds really hitting each other hard enough to cause brain damage? Maybe I'm just biased because I come from a football family lol.

On the bright side, he would make an excellent Spiderman stunt double.

The problem is that the adult that knows the risk was at one point a child, and by the time they are adults who can possibly recognize the risk their entire lives, either academically or professionally, revolve around football, so at that point what the fuck are they going to do? Drop out of college? Give up the only livelyhood they know? It's not all that different from how tobacco companies used to operate. Market their product at children, get them hopelessly addicted, and by the time they are adults everyone is saying well they knew the risks.

As to your other point, that's a notion that needs to be dispelled, which is kind of the Fucking point of the article. 10-year-old hitting other 10-year-olds is unhealthy. Not just helmet to helmet hits. Not just hard hits. Not just blowup hits. The foundation for help tackle football is played is bad for the human brain and body.