US Flag now offensives in this clown world

EviLore

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Including the source article and some quotes can help these threads get off the ground:

Putting American flags on police cars sparks backlash in Laguna Beach

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-laguna-beach-police-cars-american-flag-20190413-story.html



A decision to affix an American flag graphic to the side of freshly painted Laguna Beach police cars is dividing residents, who are alternately praising the image as patriotic or panning it as too aggressive.

After hearing the criticism and acknowledging that the image they approved didn’t quite match the final results, officials agreed to reconsider their February decision to paint the Laguna Beach Police Department’s fleet of 11 squad cars. The City Council will take up the issue again at its Tuesday meeting.

“People are screaming that the American flag on a police car is somehow or another ... hurting people’s feelings who might be immigrants or visitors,” said Councilman Peter Blake. “People are actually ridiculous enough to bring up comments about our cop cars having American flags on them.”
Artist Carrie Woodburn went to the podium at the March 19 council meeting and said it was “shocking to see the boldness of the design” when the newly painted Ford Explorers rolled out.
“We have such an amazing community of artists here, and I thought the aesthetic didn’t really represent our community,” Woodburn said. “It feels very aggressive.”
Attorney Jennifer Welsh Zeiter said at the last council meeting that she found the police cars “exceptional” and questioned the loyalty of anyone who objected to the American flag display.
“They are so filled with hatred toward this ... office of the president of the United States and the current occupant of that office,” she said, “that they cannot see through their current biases to realize that a police vehicle with the American flag is the ultimate American expression.”
The council agreed in February to repaint its all-white squad cars in black and white with the image of Old Glory running through the word “police” on the doors.
 

TheGreatYosh

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All of us that are not complete grug brains have called this. All of the removing of American history has been anti-White motivated. That’s how we knew it wouldn’t stop with southern monuments.
 

嫩翼

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Appears to look like the idea stemmed from a simple, innocent idea to encourage patriotism. Hard to see the issue at its bare bones, though since the police are indeed an enforcement entity I assume it frightens those who don't particularly like them.
 

Barnabot

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Including the source article and some quotes can help these threads get off the ground:

Putting American flags on police cars sparks backlash in Laguna Beach

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-laguna-beach-police-cars-american-flag-20190413-story.html

When the national flag of your country seems to be too aggressive to visitors or immigrants feelings. I guess the american flag might be bound to lose its meaning too if some idiots push this agenda too far . Interesting behaviour on tackling on gestures,word, and now national flags. Deconstructing the country you know by the foundations.
 
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Yoshi

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The car itself is of course not threatening, but I do feel that the US patriotism (which is just en euphemism for nationalism) is worrisome. In fact, I feel that the nationalism at display in Germany during e.g. the world cup is worrisome as well. It should of course not be illegal and it is good if people love their country, but there is always the lingeringissue of assinging traits to people based on nationality and judging people based on that, which is highly dangerous. The car is in lin with nationalist expression in the US over the last decades, but I think it is good that it is seen with more of a critical eye at least by parts of society.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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The car itself is of course not threatening, but I do feel that the US patriotism (which is just en euphemism for nationalism) is worrisome. In fact, I feel that the nationalism at display in Germany during e.g. the world cup is worrisome as well. It should of course not be illegal and it is good if people love their country, but there is always the lingeringissue of assinging traits to people based on nationality and judging people based on that, which is highly dangerous. The car is in lin with nationalist expression in the US over the last decades, but I think it is good that it is seen with more of a critical eye at least by parts of society.


Displaying a flag and being patriotic (which is now distinct from nationalism by definition) is not worrisome.

Devil under every rock when it comes to you, Yoshi. Yet you'll feign naivety when it comes to Germany's authoritarian practices.

"Keep me safe, Mommy State! But don't fly your own flag, Mommy State, or the populace might get too nationalist..."
 
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Yoshi

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Displaying a flag and being patriotic (which is now distinct from nationalism by definition) is not worrisome.
The primary definition is the same, the negative connotation that arises from going to far in that direction is only assigned to nationalism, but in my view when people use patriotism to describe a virtue, particularly their own, they often are actually nationalist in the sense of the second point of above definition. Which is why I said it is an euphemism. I do see issue in displaying flags - as I do with all kinds of identity politics. In many or even most cases, displaying a flag means much more than being glad to live in a country, but to attribute - perceived or real - accomplishments of the country to one self, which is almost never justified and is extremely dangerously close to elevating one's own citizenship as a property that makes one better than others.
 

ChuckeRearmed

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People are screaming that the American flag on a police car is somehow or another ... hurting people’s feelings who might be immigrants or visitors
Did they ask, or they came up with some artificial the problem out of nothing?

The car itself is of course not threatening, but I do feel that the US patriotism (which is just en euphemism for nationalism) is worrisome. In fact, I feel that the nationalism at display in Germany during e.g. the world cup is worrisome as well. It should of course not be illegal and it is good if people love their country, but there is always the lingeringissue of assinging traits to people based on nationality and judging people based on that, which is highly dangerous. The car is in lin with nationalist expression in the US over the last decades, but I think it is good that it is seen with more of a critical eye at least by parts of society.
They can always leave to the place, where they will like the flag. "Came to another country, complain about it." JUST LEAVE. Simple solution for stupid problem.
 
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Yoshi

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If patriotism is just nationalism, why are there two different words? Why not just combine the two into "patronizationalism"?
If shit and crap are the same things, why are there two different words? What kind of question is that? Also to use different words in the intention of invoking positive or negative associations is not uncommon. Ask language policing people about being handicaped or being a human with a handicap (among many, many other examples like this, recently e.g. the push to not call the Down syndrom that but trisomie 21 instead, because "Down" may carry negative connotations - even though it is not technically the same word as "down").
 

DunDunDunpachi

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The primary definition is the same, the negative connotation that arises from going to far in that direction is only assigned to nationalism, but in my view when people use patriotism to describe a virtue, particularly their own, they often are actually nationalist in the sense of the second point of above definition. Which is why I said it is an euphemism. I do see issue in displaying flags - as I do with all kinds of identity politics. In many or even most cases, displaying a flag means much more than being glad to live in a country, but to attribute - perceived or real - accomplishments of the country to one self, which is almost never justified and is extremely dangerously close to elevating one's own citizenship as a property that makes one better than others.
Yes, many of us are well-aware of your self-aggrandizing powers of telepathy, but this is really just your paradigm coloring everything you see around you, not reality.

Patriotism isn't nationalism, no matter how you want to read into people's culture.

The problem -- and this problem has been increasing in your posting history lately -- is the number of unfounded assumptions you feel comfortable making without any further evidence or investigation. I've bolded them for you, just to make it clear. I point this out because you leave very little (if anything) of substance to reply to.
 
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If shit and crap are the same things, why are there two different words? What kind of question is that? Also to use different words in the intention of invoking positive or negative associations is not uncommon. Ask language policing people about being handicaped or being a human with a handicap (among many, many other examples like this, recently e.g. the push to not call the Down syndrom that but trisomie 21 instead, because "Down" may carry negative connotations - even though it is not technically the same word as "down").
I just wanted to see if I could get you to explicitly say that patriotism is the same thing as nationalism, so that I could expose you as a fool. I didn't think you'd do such an exceptional job.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Agenda driven by the globalists to create division by demonizing "nationalism". Trying hard to make nationalism the new racism. Meanwhile, any Mexican flags put up are a "celebration of heritage".


Ewww keep this gross display of nationalism out of the USA. Put up that wall. Keep out those nationalists. We don't need them here.
 
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Agenda driven by the globalists to create division by demonizing "nationalism". Trying hard to make nationalism the new racism. Meanwhile, any Mexican flags put up are a "celebration of heritage".
You are also confusing nationalism with patriotism. Patriotism is a sort of respect and admiration for your country, while nationalism is a devotion to your country above all other ones. Nationalism is a form of tribalism that, in practice, plays out very much like racism. Patriotism is more like "yay, go us" and nationalism is more like "go us, fuck you". Good examples of nationalism would be putting any group of people into labor camps because they represent an invisible threat to the identity of the motherland.

Nationalists are kind of the neckbeards of the country fandom. They take it too far, they take it too seriously, and it often leads to stabbings in the mall food court. Another way to put it would be the difference between a liberal and a social justice warrior.
 
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Bolivar687

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Patriotism is a virtue. In America, Patriotism necessarily means looking beyond your ethnic origin or cultural identity. It's been that way since the founding, when the colonies were just a hodge podge of religious minorities and economic refugees. When Dr. Martin Luther King advocated for civil rights, he did so by reasserting why America was founded and what it's supposed to stand for.

@Super Mario is indeed correct - the unfair demonization of Patriotism is inherently one more ugly blemish on the hideous face of globalism. It facilitates the abolition of the nation state, revoking the fundamental human right to self-governance. We need only look at the rapidly unraveling failures of the EU to see how it fostered a civilization that no longer cares about it's own survival - a culture that lives only to indulge in its own hedonism before it dies.

I love our country and I love our cops - Make America Great Again!
 
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Cybrwzrd

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If patriotism is just nationalism, why are there two different words? Why not just combine the two into "patronizationalism"?
There is no room for complex and precise language, this is 2019(84). Everything that is ungood is ungood. Can’t have people thinking too much.
 
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Whitesnake

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The car itself is of course not threatening, but I do feel that the US patriotism (which is just en euphemism for nationalism) is worrisome. In fact, I feel that the nationalism at display in Germany during e.g. the world cup is worrisome as well. It should of course not be illegal and it is good if people love their country, but there is always the lingeringissue of assinging traits to people based on nationality and judging people based on that, which is highly dangerous. The car is in lin with nationalist expression in the US over the last decades, but I think it is good that it is seen with more of a critical eye at least by parts of society.
  1. What you’re describing is what happens with literally every group of people on earth. Tribalism is and always will be a thing that everyone (yes, including you) is guilty of.
  2. Viewing the cultures of others through your own culture’s lense is not inherently a bad thing.
  3. Nationalism isn’t inherently a bad thing.
  4. Patriotism and Nationalism aren’t the same thing. Leftsists like yourself are usually the ones that insist that there’s a big difference and that patriotism is good and nationalism is bad.
  5. Would you say the same thing of Mexicans waving Mexican flags in the US? Or Algerians waving the Algerian flag in France? I would argue that having such vehement and open pride for your nation while in someone else’s nation is far more ""worrisome"" than Americans putting an American flag on an American cop car. For the record I have no inherent problems with the people in either of those two examples because, again, nationalism isn’t inherently a bad thing.
 
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oagboghi2

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The car itself is of course not threatening, but I do feel that the US patriotism (which is just en euphemism for nationalism) is worrisome. In fact, I feel that the nationalism at display in Germany during e.g. the world cup is worrisome as well. It should of course not be illegal and it is good if people love their country, but there is always the lingeringissue of assinging traits to people based on nationality and judging people based on that, which is highly dangerous. The car is in lin with nationalist expression in the US over the last decades, but I think it is good that it is seen with more of a critical eye at least by parts of society.
If the American flag bothers you so much, maybe you should get the hell out of my country? Live under a flag you respect if you don't respect this one
 

Johnny Silver

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“People are screaming that the American flag on a police car is somehow or another ... hurting people’s feelings who might be immigrants or visitors,”
Do these imigrants not realise that the territory they are moving into belongs to the nation and represented by the respective institution known the United States of America? To actually refuse and deny the sovereignty of that flag is to by extention deny the legitimacy and sovereignty of the nation present in that territory.

Already we have the fact that people who enter the country illegaly are by default refusing to recognize the sovereignty of the nation and are criminals because they did not respect the law of the land. But the content of this acticle brings this to a whole new level and a very alarming one at that.

To enter a territory that belongs to a nation and refuse to recognize not only its laws but now also the legitimacy of the institution that represents its poeple, must be seen by definition as the act of a hostile invasion force that wishes to subvert and conquer the land they are arriving in.

The USA government has not only legal but also the MORAL grounds and duty to not tolerate this. The issues being discussed in the article should be used as an absolute criteria for imigration filtration, arrivals who do not show respect to the flag and by extention the nation that it represents must be immediately removed from that nation's territory. I remind everyone of the fact that these imigrants are in the USA through the tolerance and acceptance that the nation and the institution that represents it conveys upon the new arrivals.

The USA is in no moral obligation to accept these people, it is the opposite, these imigrants have every moral and legal obligation to respect the laws, ways, principles and above all else the sovereignty of the nation they wished to emigrate into.

And how on God's earth can you have official representatives making any sort of argument supporting the imigrants claims? Do these people not understand the implications associated with such a claim? Worse, do they not understand the implications towards THEMSELVES?

This is a sick and dysfunctional world. Something at a fundamental level is very wrong with it.

A correction is urgently needed and a drastic one at that.

(edited)
 
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autoduelist

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I do see issue in displaying flags - as I do with all kinds of identity politics. In many or even most cases, displaying a flag means much more than being glad to live in a country, but to attribute - perceived or real - accomplishments of the country to one self, which is almost never justified and is extremely dangerously close to elevating one's own citizenship as a property that makes one better than others.
An absolutely terrible reading of both patriotism and nationalism.

But just as bad with identity politics. You're conflating terms left and right, just wholesale slaughtering them.

identity politics
n. Political attitudes or positions that focus on the concerns of social groups identified mainly on the basis of gender, race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation: "However, identity politics, whether in the guise of nationalism, feminism, or some other form of political expression is on the defensive these days” ( Clarence Lusane).
More at Wordnik from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition


Displaying a flag is not identity politics. In addition to the fact that the American flag has nothing to do with ethnicity, the flag us not an immutable characteristic. People can move, legally immigrate, etc. In America, they are even free to fly a flag of a different country.

And that is the craziest reading for why people are flying a flag I've ever heard. Let me simplify it for you... people fly their American flag because they love their country and because they respect the sacrifices of those who built this country. And I hate to tell you this, but I am glad i live in America. It's a fantastic country that views liberty as a right, not a privilege doled out by the government. The American way is superior, and to suggest ill intent in saying that only will make me say it louder, because there are countries that would arrest you for saying it. To try to villify and minimize those that feel this way as trying to ride on the accomplishments of others is gross. Does flying a pride flag mean you are diminishing those who came before you, or attributing, say, Harvey Milks achievements to yourself?

You need to go find the professor who messed up your head and have some words.
 

cryptoadam

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Just a step closer to the American flag becoming a symbol of white supremacy and racism. But its just the natural evolution when saying Making America Great is equated with the KKK, of course the flag will be attacked.

They should change the horns on the cars "Honk Honk" indeed.
 

EviLore

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The car itself is of course not threatening, but I do feel that the US patriotism (which is just en euphemism for nationalism) is worrisome. In fact, I feel that the nationalism at display in Germany during e.g. the world cup is worrisome as well. It should of course not be illegal and it is good if people love their country, but there is always the lingeringissue of assinging traits to people based on nationality and judging people based on that, which is highly dangerous. The car is in lin with nationalist expression in the US over the last decades, but I think it is good that it is seen with more of a critical eye at least by parts of society.
 

CatLady

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If immigrants and visitors are offended by our flag they can get the fuck out.

They have no business being here with that shitty attitude and we don't need people who would complain about the sight of our flag and the principles it represents that so many Americans have died to defend.
 
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yo these haters better not celebrate july 4th or imma be pissed, but I wont be publicly outraged.
 
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lock2k

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Fuck off.

I'm not even American but I love the American flag. It's one of the greatest symbols on earth. My daughter was born in the 4th of July and she has several clothes with the American flag. I can't deny the influence the U.S. has on my life in several aspects. Great country. Fuck the offended.
 
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If immigrants and visitors are offended by our flag they can get the fuck out.
Let's not go overboard here. America stands for the freedom of ideas, above all else, even the idea that the flag is not a symbol of good stuff. I don't think anybody should have a problem with people having a problem with it. When they act on that offense and try to censor the flag, then there's an issue. But up until then, let them cry, safe in the knowledge that as long as they are in the USA, they are still allowed to.
 

Yoshi

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If the American flag bothers you so much, maybe you should get the hell out of my country? Live under a flag you respect if you don't respect this one
1. I am not in your country.
2. I do not respect flags, period. I respect people, cultures, societal achievements, but not flags.
  1. What you’re describing is what happens with literally every group of people on earth. Tribalism is and always will be a thing that everyone (yes, including you) is guilty of.
  2. Viewing the cultures of others through your own culture’s lense is not inherently a bad thing.
  3. Nationalism isn’t inherently a bad thing.
  4. Patriotism and Nationalism aren’t the same thing. Leftsists like yourself are usually the ones that insist that there’s a big difference and that patriotism is good and nationalism is bad.
  5. Would you say the same thing of Mexicans waving Mexican flags in the US? Or Algerians waving the Algerian flag in France? I would argue that having such vehement and open pride for your nation while in someone else’s nation is far more ""worrisome"" than Americans putting an American flag on an American cop car. For the record I have no inherent problems with the people in either of those two examples because, again, nationalism isn’t inherently a bad thing.
1. Maybe, but I try to reflect critically of such behaviour and to prevent it where I can.
2. I agree.
3. I disagree.
4. Depends on the flavour of leftism. US leftists do, but US leftists also often are not left (from my perspective). Also, what other leftists do has no direct bearing on my opinions.
5. Yes. Why would I exclude Mexicans? I neither exempt my own country, nor the foreign country USA.
But just as bad with identity politics. You're conflating terms left and right, just wholesale slaughtering them.

identity politics
n. Political attitudes or positions that focus on the concerns of social groups identified mainly on the basis of gender, race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation: "However, identity politics, whether in the guise of nationalism, feminism, or some other form of political expression is on the defensive these days” ( Clarence Lusane).
More at Wordnik from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition


Displaying a flag is not identity politics. In addition to the fact that the American flag has nothing to do with ethnicity, the flag us not an immutable characteristic.
Look at you own quoted text. Nationalism is an example of identity politics. It is not an immutable characteristic and in fact neither does your own quotations demand that of identity politics motivators. Displaying a flag can be an expression of nationalism, though it is not in all cases. E.g. using the flag in an international summit to indicate e.g. who is talking for which country is a suitable non-nationalist use.
Rarely do I agree with our conservative overlord, but in this case I do.
 
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Madonis

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I am not offended by any flag. It's about how the flag is used and what it does (or doesn't) represent that matters.
 

autoduelist

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Look at you own quoted text. Nationalism is an example of identity politics. It is not an immutable characteristic and in fact neither does your own quotations demand that of identity politics motivators. Displaying a flag can be an expression of nationalism, though it is not in all cases. E.g. using the flag in an international summit to indicate e.g. who is talking for which country is a suitable non-nationalist use..
It really isnt my fault you can't parse a sentence. The definition literally lists a series of immutable characteristics. The sample sentence you are talking about is not a definition, but usage: "However, identity politics, whether in the guise of nationalism, feminism, or some other form of political expression is on the defensive these days”

I picked that definition with the word 'nationalism' on purpose, not because it undermines my own position.

The word guise means "False appearance; pretense". It is saying some people drape identity politics in nationalism - like 'etho-nationalists' who combine identity politics with nationalism. It does not mean nationalism is inherently etho-nationalist, especially in a country like America. That sentence is saying those who combine nationalism and identity politics are on the defensive, which is absolutely true [except on the leftmost where identity politics run unchecked]. It does not say nationalism is identity politics.

I was just at the Alamo. Flags everywhere. Plaques erected everywhere not just for white men, but for immigrants and freedmen who fought alongside them, all heroes to the early Texas republic. This is deep in the heart of Texas. Very few people out here care about what color your skin is. They care more if you bleed red, white, and blue. Do you respect liberty, do you fundamentally understand liberty. Do you, at your core, accept 'liberty or death', or have you forgotten [or, more likely, never taught] what the American flag means?

Flags unite us. I'm very individualistic, so have literally never worn nor flown a flag. I dont even wear sports paraphernalia. But I'm still capable of understanding how important it is for communities to unite under meaningful flags and symbols.

You said: "displaying a flag means much more than being glad to live in a country, but to attribute - perceived or real - accomplishments of the country to one self, which is almost never justified and is extremely dangerously close to elevating one's own citizenship as a property that makes one better than others".

Would you also say:
"displaying a flag means much more than being glad to [support LGBT], but to attribute - perceived or real - accomplishments of the [LGBT community] to one self, which is almost never justified and is extremely dangerously close to elevating one's own [sexuality] as a property that makes one better than others.

I should hope not. But you know what flying the American flag does mean? It means you can fly whatever flag you want. Even communist ones that represent countries that killed people in the tens of millions over identity politics, like Pol Pot, etc. Meanwhile, in other countries you can still get killed, stoned, or thrown off a roof for displaying an American flag or a pride flag. But yeah, the American flag is the threatening one, which us why we have such a immigration issue.

Edited to add:
You may be right that a world without flags would be better. I certainly don't need them. But exactly how are you going to stop people from uniting under them? Jailing them? Fining them? Killing them? Or do we just have to recognize that liberty has the answer, and that the American flag, in particular, represents the liberty to fly any flag you want.
 
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Tesseract

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imagine hating the best civilization on the planet and being privileged enough to live there

please feel free to fuck off to some 3rd world shit hole if america isn't to your liking

the mostly (grossly) leftist movement to see the bad in everything is so exhausting
 
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juliotendo

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I also assume the flag patches police officers wear is also offensive and next on the list of things that drive lefties crazy.
 
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Joe T.

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If your feelings are hurt by a country's flag the problem isn't with the flag or where it's placed, the problem is with your fragile state of mind and the circumstances in your life that led you to that point. Try fixing that, not the placement of the American flag. Toughen up, just a little, for the sake of our entire species.
 

autoduelist

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I also assume the flag patches police officers wear is also offensive and next on the list of things that drive lefties crazy.
Over/under on an article about blue uniforms being offensive within the next 2 years? I'm half scared to search the internet, it may already have happened.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Over/under on an article about blue uniforms being offensive within the next 2 years? I'm half scared to search the internet, it may already have happened.
People got offended by the police in Spider-Man PS4.

If people still want to believe subverting so-called "Gamer culture" wasn't a vanguard effort for this ideology, I don't know what to tell you. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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