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US PoliGAF 2012 | The Romney VeepStakes: Waiting for Chris Christie to Sing…

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
ha ha. whatever cyan..

I don't know if this was mentioned, but Obama wants to get rid of the Department of Commerce. (wasn't that one of the agencies Perry said he'd abolish? i can't remember which 3 he said he'd torch)
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He wants to consolidate 6 agencies into one in order to save money and make things simpler.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...mmerce-trade/2012/01/13/gIQApszdvP_story.html

But yea, the Commerce dept would be one of them and be taken out/changed
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
A27_StarWolf said:
No its pretty correct, the guy tends to be an ass. I can't watch him 90% of the time. I can watch the colbert report all day long though.
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Stewart? Really? I mean, Bill Maher I can understand (even though I like him), but Stewart's pretty innocuous overall.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
A27_StarWolf said:
No its pretty correct, the guy tends to be an ass. I can't watch him 90% of the time. I can watch the colbert report all day long though.
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What? Jon Stewart's an ass? What planet are you from? He's always pretty civil and gracious to people even when they absolutely disagree with him. Go watch the DeMint interview everyone's talking about. An ass doesn't interview someone with a diametrically opposed viewpoint like that.
 
K

KtSlime

Member
RDreamer said:
What? Jon Stewart's an ass? What planet are you from? He's always pretty civil and gracious to people even when they absolutely disagree with him. Go watch the DeMint interview everyone's talking about. An ass doesn't interview someone with a diametrically opposed viewpoint like that.
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From the same planet where Huntsman has a chance becoming president, and Newt is a respectable politician.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
That actually sounds good. But there must be some hidden socialist agenda. I'm keeping my eyes open.
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Some republicans are voicing support for it. Assuming this is the crux of the proposal, I think it'll get lots of support. Still, I wonder if it's a political ploy to box republicans - mainly the tea party freshmen - in. Will they support this or add a bunch of controversal amendments to it first, for instance.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Measley said:
Except that he never says that government doesn't create "private sector jobs". He says that government doesn't create jobs period. In other words, government never created the job he has currently had for over 2 decades. You're right, it is a moronic statement for a government employee to make.



Hardly. Its called standing by the principles you preach. You simply can't sit back and say that government doesn't create jobs while you work at a government created job making six figures, while the average American makes 35k a year.
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The whole 'government doesn't create jobs' thing is so utterly easy to eviscerate. Aside from the obvious congressman, police officers, teachers, miltary, and such positions, some intrepid reported could ask one of these fucks if all those private contractors hired by the government, paid for with tax payer dollars, should be cut off from the government teat. Let's see how companies like Raytheon, and Halliburton like the idea of NOT receiving billions in "government" dollars.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
No. You just have to open a history book and read those facts.
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I've read plenty of sources maintaining that Reagan's tack against the USSR may have actually galvanized Soviet hardliners and prolonged the Cold War an extra decade. So, even if he DID "bring down the USSR" (a ridiculous proposition, and one is rather glad that he wasn't at the helm during the Cuban Missile Crisis), he did it only after making the problem worse.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
PhoenixDark said:
I think you're cool and everything, but these types of posts are embarrassing and out of line. And as a foreigner, the posts stick out even more considering you don't live here/aren't qualified to make so many generalizations. No offense, just my opinion.
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Erm, I'm an American dude. I'm also a minority, so I noticed the tea party rising up as soon as a black guy got to Washington. The hate was apparent before the election:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fieGfc6DL7k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b5QeYV2d6s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpQtKe-cVuE&feature=related

And it materialized in the tea party after the election:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI

But yeah, let's ignore all that and pretend that the Tea Party arose because people felt they were taxed too much during an era when we had the lowest taxes ever.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Btw, guyz. Apparently Herman Cain's gonna be on Bill Maher tonight. Should be entertaining. :lol
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Measley said:
LoL! Sure it is. Which is why Obama lost the white vote in 2008 for no real reason.
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Bill Clinton 43% of white vote
Al Gore 42%
John Kerry 41%
Obama: 43%

White voters hate white candidates confirmed.

Not sure why I'm responding to you after reading two samples of pure nonsense, but here I am...
 
J

Jenga

Banned
Stewart's usually a nice guy but he does come off as slightly condescending at times (mostly when he's finishing for some shit to get people to laugh at) but he's alright.

I actually got bored of Colbert a long time ago. Act just got old.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
elrechazao said:
Bill Clinton 43% of white vote
Al Gore 42%
John Kerry 41%
Obama: 43%

White voters hate white candidates confirmed.

Not sure why I'm responding to you after reading two samples of pure nonsense, but here I am...
Click to expand...

Bill Clinton was in a three man race both times, and neither of Clinton's opponents swung the white vote the way McCain did in 2008. Dole won the white vote by only 3%. McCain won the white vote by 8%. If it wasn't for the energized youth vote, that percentage would have been much higher.

BTW, this was after Bush wrecked the country and his popularity had sunk into the 20s, and a huge democratic wave election had taken place in 2006.

Those people honestly didn't believe Obama was going to win the election. When he did, they were shocked and terrified, and the embryo of the tea party began to form.

Here's a great documentary on the waning months of the 2008 Campaign, and the emerging of the tea party. You can see the attitudes that would eventually shape the movement from the ridiculous statements of these people who have an irrational hatred of Barack Obama;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7294526473944146040
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
This Demint-Stewart interview is hilarious. Demint's arguing that decreasing taxes increases federal revenue.

The audience laughed at him. So did I.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
Cyan said:
Do you think the Birthers were rooted in racism? Tangent, I know, but I'm curious.
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Some of them? Sure. I think it was one more conspiracy theory in a long line of conspiracy theories that a certain segment of crazy blend of right left loonies like birchers and larouchies about on par with "clinton murdered people left and right" theorists. Every bit of crazy conspiracy shit that people tried to pin on clinton would be claimed as "racist" if the exact same nonsense were said about obama. Playing the race card is boring and lazy, and ignores the real mental issues this segment of nutjobs have.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Measley said:
Erm, I'm an American dude. I'm also a minority, so I noticed the tea party rising up as soon as a black guy got to Washington. The hate was apparent before the election:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKUovpF9LWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fieGfc6DL7k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b5QeYV2d6s&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpQtKe-cVuE&feature=related

And it materialized in the tea party after the election:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S38VioxnBaI

But yeah, let's ignore all that and pretend that the Tea Party arose because people felt they were taxed too much during an era when we had the lowest taxes ever.
Click to expand...

Ah I could have sworn you were European. Maybe I'm confusing you with Meadow or whatever his name is

Those videos don't prove the majority of tea party types are racist. I think it's clear the republican party is benefiting from some racially motivated hatred but let's be clear: Clinton was viciously hated for 8 years, even after the economy turned around.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
I think there is a small chunk of very obvious racism, but there's also a lot more to that. Some tea partiers likely aren't at all. There are some, though, that I think aren't really outwardly racist or don't realize they're racist. I think the racist people and the conspiracy nut cases and some of the republicans in general moved very quickly and with differing techniques painted him as a sort of "other" or "outsider" if you will. Those feelings grew and were a large part of the tea party movement.

So, yeah I think it's bad to label the entire movement as racist or having racist beginnings because I think that's just way too lazy of a label. And it doesn't really encompass everyone. And some of the people it encompasses are a bit more complicated than just "lol racist."
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
PhoenixDark said:
Ah I could have sworn you were European. Maybe I'm confusing you with Meadow or whatever his name is
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Nope, I was born in the Midwestern US.

Those videos don't prove the majority of tea party types are racist. I think it's clear the republican party is benefiting from some racially motivated hatred but let's be clear: Clinton was viciously hated for 8 years, even after the economy turned around.
Click to expand...

Then can you give me a better reason why the tea party formed, and what their motivations were outside of an irrational fear of Obama?

And the level of hatred towards Clinton has nothing on the level of hatred towards Obama. I don't remember Clinton being called a "liar" during a SotU address. I also don't remember hordes of white people outside the capitol holding up signs calling the president a fascist, terrorist, or socialist.
 
E

elrechazado

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Ah I could have sworn you were European. Maybe I'm confusing you with Meadow or whatever his name is

Those videos don't prove the majority of tea party types are racist. I think it's clear the republican party is benefiting from some racially motivated hatred but let's be clear: Clinton was viciously hated for 8 years, even after the economy turned around.
Click to expand...

People forget the sheer vitriol and over the top insanity that was clinton hatred. I'd say it easily surpassed obama hate. The infant internet just hadn't made it as ubiquitous and easy to spread as it is now. I think young people who never experienced that time period just lazily cry racism when they see obama hate.
 
T

TestOfTide

Banned
Oblivion said:
Ugh. So Jon Stewart did his periodic token false equivalency bit yesterday. He targeted some broad who called the tea baggers "economic terrorists" for the debt ceiling fiasco, and was all "tsk tsk tsk".

What's particularly annoying about Stewart is that he realizes there's a fuckton of false equivalency bullshit always being thrown around and he himself has made fun of it millions of times. Then sure enough, even he goes ahead and partakes in it. Really disappointing and annoying.
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Or maybe the point is that you don't get to complain about over-the-top rhetoric and then engage in it.

Regardless of who is right, it never looks good to call the other side terrorists, even metaphorically. Nor does it ever look good on either side to insist the opposing side is entirely motivated by racism unless there is no other explanation.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
elrechazao said:
People forget the sheer vitriol and over the top insanity that was clinton hatred. I'd say it easily surpassed obama hate. The infant internet just hadn't made it as ubiquitous and easy to spread as it is now. I think young people who never experienced that time period just lazily cry racism when they see obama hate.
Click to expand...

I was around for the Clinton hatred. It was nowhere as bad as it is right now. Let's face it, if Obama gets re-elected, the right in this country just might explode.

I found this interesting (and funny);

Glenn Beck Suggests Tea Party Is Racist

In a startling admission from a major Tea Party champion, former Fox News host Glenn Beck said Friday that race may be a motivating factor in the Tea Party’s opposition to President Obama. In an interview with Fox Business host Andrew Napolitano, Beck said Obama and GOP front-runner Newt Gingrich are both “big government progressive,” so he doesn’t understand why Tea Party members are supporting Gingrich. “If you’re against [Obama] but you’re for [Gingrich], it must be about race,” Beck said:


BECK: "And I issued a challenge to Tea Party members. … [Gingrich] is a progressive. … If you have a big government progressive, or a big government progressive in Obama, one in Newt Gingrich, one in Obama, ask yourself this, Tea Party: is it about Obama’s race? Because that’s what it appears to be to me. If you’re against him but you’re for this guy, it must be about race."
Click to expand...




http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2...-beck-suggests-tea-party-is-racist/?mobile=nc
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
M

Measley

Junior Member
Cyan said:
Doesn't Beck also think Obama is a racist?
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Yes he does. He thinks Ron Paul is a racist as well.

However, he does bring up a good point in that article (which was the original point that started this discussion); If the Tea Party is willing to fall in line to support someone like Gingrich and Romney, then what was their real beef with Obama? Simply that he was a democrat? That makes no sense, because the movement was originally party agnostic.


PhoenixDark said:
I don't see what that proves. Beck is insane and has a supreme hate for Gingrich. His argument was childish and has caused him to lose support
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I'm still waiting for your better reason for the Tea Party's formation.

Oblivion said:
Excuse me while I go into ultra-partisan librul nazi mode, but seriously now? There's a million things I disagree with the tea baggers, stuff that I do think would actively harm a good portion of the population. BUT this debt ceiling thing is a completely different kettle of fish. Every person with one of them fancy college DEE-grees spoke about the utter devastation that would arise from not raising the debt ceiling. That they'd be putting the entire GLOBAL FUCKING ECONOMY at risk, and we'd have a worldwide depression. This is inarguably several times worse than gutting the entirely of medicare and social security. "Economic Terrorists" is more than appropriate for such behavior.
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Co-sign. Nothing is more annoying than when people pretend the left is as nutty as the right. Show me a democratic congressman engaging in half the over the top insanity that the right has engaged in since Obama's election. Its downright shameful. Our descendants are going to look back at this shit and shake their head in disbelief.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
TestOfTide said:
Or maybe the point is that you don't get to complain about over-the-top rhetoric and then engage in it.

Regardless of who is right, it never looks good to call the other side terrorists, even metaphorically. Nor does it ever look good on either side to insist the opposing side is entirely motivated by racism unless there is no other explanation.
Click to expand...

Excuse me while I go into ultra-partisan librul nazi mode, but seriously now? There's a million things I disagree with the tea baggers, stuff that I do think would actively harm a good portion of the population. BUT this debt ceiling thing is a completely different kettle of fish. Every person with one of them fancy college DEE-grees spoke about the utter devastation that would arise from not raising the debt ceiling. That they'd be putting the entire GLOBAL FUCKING ECONOMY at risk, and we'd have a worldwide depression. This is inarguably several times worse than gutting the entirely of medicare and social security. "Economic Terrorists" is more than appropriate for such behavior.
 
D

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Holy shit, did you guys see the Judge Napolitano interview on the daily show? Specifically the extended interview?

There's one part where Judge randomly out of no where points to a member of the audience and asks "is that Reggie Jackson?"

And Stewart just facepalmed and said "No.. that's just a black guy."

Amaaaazingly hilarious.

EDIT: Crap, I confused this with the daily show thread.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Measley said:
I'm still waiting for your better reason for the Tea Party's formation.
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The tea party was obviously created to capitalize off the supreme anger the health care debate generated, financed by republicans and corporatists. Hillarycare generated similar anger and hatred that the Clinton administration was unable to defeat, remember.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PhoenixDark said:
The tea party was obviously created to capitalize off the supreme anger the health care debate generated, financed by republicans and corporatists. Hillarycare generated similar anger and hatred that the Clinton administration was unable to defeat, remember.
Click to expand...

The tea baggers were created long before the debates on HCR started.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Measley said:
Yes he does. He thinks Ron Paul is a racist as well.

However, he does bring up a good point in that article (which was the original point that started this discussion); If the Tea Party is willing to fall in line to support someone like Gingrich and Romney, then what was their real beef with Obama? Simply that he was a democrat?
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I still think saying it's just racism is far too easy of an answer. I think this is what happened. All of these sentiments from differing factions in the republican party coalesced around Obama. He was painted very quickly as an "other" in many different ways, and then feared because that. For some that really was racism. For others it was kind of an inward racism in that he is just foreign or different from them. Republicans painted him as a socialist and as getting a lot of inspiration from European socialism. The stuff about Kenya came up and conspiracy nuts jumped on that. Add to all of that the fear of a democrat in office after 8 years of Bush and the fact that he campaigned on changing everything, and you just have an overall sentiment of difference and fear among a large portion of republican voters. Add in the typical Fox 6 type politics of fear and you have a veritable powder keg ready to go off at a bit of a spark. All of this got swirled around and mixed in with an air of legitimate discourse on a problem that some people might have actually had even without this president.

Racism is just too easy. It was all of these things and then it was all of these things combining in different ways that add to it. And then it was the realization of this process by the Republican party and the media outlets like Fox 6 that sparked things further.
 
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