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Opinion (USA politics) So if impeachment never leaves the inquiry stage, what's next?

Will it Pass the House of Representatives?

  • Yes, it will pass and go to the Senate

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • No, it will not go to a vote or it will not pass the vote.

    Votes: 17 63.0%

  • Total voters
    27

pramod

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Its looking almost inevitable now that impeachment dies in the House.

The Dems plan was hoping that the polls continued to move in their favor as they did these public hearings. It hasnt happened.

If the trial goes to the Senate, the GOP will call Hunter Biden to be a witness. The Dems will have more to lose than gain.

The Dems took a huge gamble and lost. But they sorta had no choice. The crazy left wanted blood and they have to deliver it to them.
 

DarkMage619

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Separate person, separate case. I honestly haven't paid attention to the "porn star payoffs" controversy in the first place. I was too embroiled in whether he was a literal agent of Russia elected to subvert our nation from within.
Who stated Trump was a literal Russian agent? It's convenient to just not have paid attention to the porn star payoff case. It might have tarnished the view on Trump being a crusader for truth and justice.
 
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sahlberg

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Its looking almost inevitable now that impeachment dies in the House.

The Dems plan was hoping that the polls continued to move in their favor as they did these public hearings. It hasnt happened.

If the trial goes to the Senate, the GOP will call Hunter Biden to be a witness. The Dems will have more to lose than gain.

The Dems took a huge gamble and lost. But they sorta had no choice. The crazy left wanted blood and they have to deliver it to them.
I think so too.
But if it does not pass the dem controlled house, someone will have to do some really good 'splaining to the squad and the rest of the extreme left faction. They will not be happy.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Who stated Trump was a literal Russian agent? It's convenient to just not have paid attention to the porn star payoff case. It might have tarnished the view on Trump being a crusader for truth and justice.
It's really so far in the past and so pithy, I can't be bothered to care. I never thought Trump was a paragon of virtue.
 
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JORMBO

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It will not be put up for a vote if it would not pass. Say what you want about Pelosi but she knows how to count.
That is true. If they move on without putting it up for vote then you know they don’t have the votes. Same thing as a failure to me.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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It goes to judiciary committee after the inquiry is completed. If articles of impeachment are drafted it would be voted there first. If it gets out of committee then it gets voted on by the entire house.
Thanks, I appreciate the explanation. So we have two votes before it becomes an official impeachment and goes to the Senate?
 

Joe T.

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It's definitely moving to the Senate, I think Pelosi's prepared to risk losing the House in next year's elections because she's making the gamble that she can win the White House and Senate. If it doesn't move to the Senate I don't think they'll be able to move forward without throwing Schiff under the bus and apologizing. The egos are too big for that to happen, though. She's 79 and planning to retire in 2022, doubt she wants to go down in flames now. Schiff was treated like a hero in California last weekend, too.

Pelosi's probably had this whole impeachment process planned out in her head long before it got underway, she already knows how to spin it if Trump gets removed and if he stays, both of which the Dem base will eat up like a kid in a candy shop. The only thing that might thwart her plans would be damaging findings from Horowitz, Durham and Barr's investigations.
 

DarkMage619

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I look forward to the Hunter Biden testimony in the Senate.
I'd like to see him explain why Trump had to seek his personal attorney on him. We agree that the senate trial will be all about Biden and his son and nothing about Trump right?
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I'd like to see him explain why Trump had to seek his personal attorney on him. We agree that the senate trial will be all about Biden and his son and nothing about Trump right?
Whose fault is that? Democrats have to resort to proving Biden was squeaky clean in order to eliminate the valid reasons that Trump appears to have had for investigating Ukraine in the first place.

The Democrats are on their back foot. The original accusation was that it was quid pro quo because there was no other valid reason to push for investigations nor withhold aid. Now Democrats are forced to prove all the reasons that've since come up are "conspiracy theories" or "Republican talking points" in order to make Trump's only remaining motive political sabotage.

Because unless Democrats do that, they simply don't have a case.
 

HeresJohnny

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It was going to the senate before a single bit of testimony was given; the hearings were just a formality. We mustn’t underestimate the level of mental derangement the Democrats suffer from. I mean, they put Schiff, a certifiable liar and new age McCarthyist, in charge of the intelligence committee lol
 
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HeresJohnny

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Whose fault is that? Democrats have to resort to proving Biden was squeaky clean in order to eliminate the valid reasons that Trump appears to have had for investigating Ukraine in the first place.

The Democrats are on their back foot. The original accusation was that it was quid pro quo because there was no other valid reason to push for investigations nor withhold aid. Now Democrats are forced to prove all the reasons that've since come up are "conspiracy theories" or "Republican talking points" in order to make Trump's only remaining motive political sabotage.

Because unless Democrats do that, they simply don't have a case.
Agreed, but you’re applying logic to people devoid of any. Most people your logic would be infallible with, but the Democrats aren’t logical. In fact, they’re completely irrational. Ever since 2016 they’ve been like Darryl Hannah flailing around in a trailer after she had her other eye plucked out. There’s nothing there but pain and rage, and no interest in reconciling how they got where they are.
 
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Alec

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Wow, majority of people here don't think it will get a vote or pass the House?

No way he is getting removed, of course, but to not think he will be impeached seems like a disregard for where the majority of Democrats are right now.
 

Demacabre

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So question.

If this goes to the Senate, is it just a vote or do they do their own investigation and call their own witnesses/recall witnesses? Do we go through this shit again?
 
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JORMBO

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So question.

If this goes to the Senate, is it just a vote or do they do their own investigation and call their own witnesses/recall witnesses? Do we go through this shit again?
They call their own witnesses. It will go on for several weeks most likely, 6 days each week.
 
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pramod

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Wow, majority of people here don't think it will get a vote or pass the House?

No way he is getting removed, of course, but to not think he will be impeached seems like a disregard for where the majority of Democrats are right now.
You need more than a majority of Dems. You need like 90%+ of them to vote yes since zero Republicans will vote yes.
 
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Sacred

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Wow, majority of people here don't think it will get a vote or pass the House?

No way he is getting removed, of course, but to not think he will be impeached seems like a disregard for where the majority of Democrats are right now.
How many of those Dems are in Red states currently and there seat is up for grabs. They will do what they have to do to keep voter favor because that is all they care about currently.
 

DarkMage619

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Whose fault is that? Democrats have to resort to proving Biden was squeaky clean in order to eliminate the valid reasons that Trump appears to have had for investigating Ukraine in the first place.

The Democrats are on their back foot. The original accusation was that it was quid pro quo because there was no other valid reason to push for investigations nor withhold aid. Now Democrats are forced to prove all the reasons that've since come up are "conspiracy theories" or "Republican talking points" in order to make Trump's only remaining motive political sabotage.

Because unless Democrats do that, they simply don't have a case.
I don't see how you can complain no proof of Trumps crimes despite the many witnesses but Biden and son have to prove they are innocent with only a Trump accusation and a Giuliani investigation. And again for the 50th time if Biden committed a crime it was under the orders of Obama. If you want to investigate someone start there first. Oh and use the damn DOJ that's what its for!
 
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sahlberg

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I don't see how you can complain no proof of Trumps crimes despite the many witnesses but Biden and son have to prove they are innocent with only a Trump accusation and a Giuliani investigation. And again for the 50th time if Biden committed a crime it was under the orders of Obama. If you want to investigate someone start there first. Oh and use the damn DOJ that's what its for!
So your theory is that Obama is responsible for the Bidens looking like they are taking bribes? And that is why Bidens can not be investigated for taking bribes from foreign oligarches while serving as VP?
I think one of the main witnesses said that Obamas administration were CONCERNED about Bidens dealings and unusual employment arrangements.
 
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Zefah

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Wow, majority of people here don't think it will get a vote or pass the House?

No way he is getting removed, of course, but to not think he will be impeached seems like a disregard for where the majority of Democrats are right now.
I really don't think there's the political will for it. I haven't been paying close attention to the impeachment hearings, but unless I'm mistaken, there haven't been any bombshells and it seems like things are largely where they were before the hearings started.
 

DarkMage619

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So your theory is that Obama is responsible for the Bidens looking like they are taking bribes? And that is why Bidens can not be investigated for taking bribes from foreign oligarches while serving as VP?
I think one of the main witnesses said that Obamas administration were CONCERNED about Bidens dealings and unusual employment arrangements.
1) What happened that made Biden look like he is taking bribes?

2) Who says Biden can't be investigated? I have said over and over again that the appropriate way to investigation any US citizen is through the DOJ.

3) Biden was VP. Do you think the VP can unilaterally stop aid from flowing to foreign countries without the presidents consent? If Biden was dirty it was because Obama got him dirty. We must take down Obama!

4) Are you saying the Obama administration was concerned that his own VP was taking bribes yet did nothing to stop it? Additionally what do get for bribing the VP? A chance to cast that tie breaking vote in the senate? Let get real people!
 

sahlberg

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1) What happened that made Biden look like he is taking bribes?

2) Who says Biden can't be investigated? I have said over and over again that the appropriate way to investigation any US citizen is through the DOJ.

3) Biden was VP. Do you think the VP can unilaterally stop aid from flowing to foreign countries without the presidents consent? If Biden was dirty it was because Obama got him dirty. We must take down Obama!

4) Are you saying the Obama administration was concerned that his own VP was taking bribes yet did nothing to stop it? Additionally what do get for bribing the VP? A chance to cast that tie breaking vote in the senate? Let get real people!
Look, lets just see what happens. I imagine Trump is not too happy if this blows up and destroys Bidens campaign since Biden is certainly his #1 choice for candidate to campaign against.

(the man can't speak coherently. He doesn't remember the name of the president he served under "Mr MY BOSS", or the time he called the president "Mr Rat-Rap". He says shit like "I am not racist, I have black friends". He hallucinates and manufacture false memories of meeting school shooting survivors in the white house, for shootingds that happened after he were no longer VP.
Seriously, trump would eat him alive in a debate or on the campaign trail.

If Trump could pick anyone in the whole world to be his opponent in 2020. WHO would be higher on the list than Biden?
This is kind of why Trump is not destroying Biden on Twitter. He does not fear Biden. He is not a threat. His wet dream is going up against Biden in the election.
I Personally think that Biden is a stroke survivor but has not fully recovered. It is obvious his brain doesnt work properly anymore.)


But if the door is opened, I am sure there will be enough investigations.
Ukraine parliament are pushing for investigation on the millions of ukranian tax money that flowed into Hunter and friends pockets and push for investigation. When the impeachment reaches the senate, I am 100% certain that we will see Hunter and also everyone in the Obama admin that were concerned about Hunter to give testimony,

I think it is really important to get to the bottom of the Hunter issue since it may well be the deciding factor on whether this was just Trump looking for black info about Bidens (why he would do that is unclear since Biden is a guaranteed win for Trump if Biden is the nominee).
If Bidens come out clean, well trump will look bad and petty. If the Bidens come out looking shady, well then that is really strong ammunition for Trump to claim it was all about corruption.
So lets get the Bidens, some other people on the stand and maybe also some Ukrainans. If Bidens are clean, that is on Trump. If Bidens are shady, then well Trump is kind of eviscerated. ok?

(sidenote: Ukraine is not the only place where Hunter has had "unusual" employments he was never qualified for. Lets interview and we will discover those in detail too.)


Whether or not Bidens are corrupt are actually now fundamentally connected to how to parse the intentions of Trump.
You can not decide on the one without looking at the other.



Lets just wait and see, The democrats have pulled their witnesses and built their case.
Let the Senate pull their witnesses and build their case and then we will see where the chips fall.
We will see both sides of the issue and then can make an informed decision.

Once we see the witnesses and evidence from the other side, we compare the two and then decide. OK?


(In my personal view, a VP taking bribes from foreign corrupt oligarches is quite a bit worse than a P looking for dirt on an opponent. But that is just me. Lets get to the bottom to the Biden affair and then we can decide how to proceed,)
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I don't see how you can complain no proof of Trumps crimes despite the many witnesses but Biden and son have to prove they are innocent with only a Trump accusation and a Giuliani investigation. And again for the 50th time if Biden committed a crime it was under the orders of Obama. If you want to investigate someone start there first. Oh and use the damn DOJ that's what its for!
I don't understand your line of reasoning, unless you're agreeing that Biden's crime was under Obama's orders, which would be even worse for the both of them.

There appears to be no evidence that Obama ordered Biden's little side-dealings. The sensible thing would be to first investigate the person who is accused of the crime and see where it leads. Maybe Obama was unaware of Biden's side deal. We shouldn't go after Obama unless there's proof he is involved.
 

DarkMage619

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I don't understand your line of reasoning, unless you're agreeing that Biden's crime was under Obama's orders, which would be even worse for the both of them.

There appears to be no evidence that Obama ordered Biden's little side-dealings. The sensible thing would be to first investigate the person who is accused of the crime and see where it leads. Maybe Obama was unaware of Biden's side deal. We shouldn't go after Obama unless there's proof he is involved.
The evidence is that Biden DID NOT POSSES THE AUTHORITY TO WITHOLD AID WITHOUT THE PRESIDENTS CONSENT!

Pardon the caps it seemed like my point was lost. There is no way Obama wasn't aware. Lets all remember people here say Biden confessed his crimes in that forum! How could everyone in Obama administration miss that? Republicans caught it!

And finally... The DOJ/FBI is the appropriate organization to investigate American citizens. Not Giuliani. Not Igor and Lev. Trump abused his powers for a personal political gain not in the interest of the US.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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The evidence is that Biden DID NOT POSSES THE AUTHORITY TO WITHOLD AID WITHOUT THE PRESIDENTS CONSENT!

Pardon the caps it seemed like my point was lost. There is no way Obama wasn't aware.
We don't know if there was no way. That is why it makes sense to investigate Biden and to question him. I'm sure if we ask "did anyone tell you to make these arrangements?" and Biden answers "Obama" then we can drag him in. Up to this point, I don't see any evidence that Obama was personally involved.

Lets all remember people here say Biden confessed his crimes in that forum! How could everyone in Obama administration miss that? Republicans caught it!

And finally... The DOJ/FBI is the appropriate organization to investigate American citizens. Not Giuliani. Not Igor and Lev. Trump abused his powers for a personal political gain not in the interest of the US.
Rooting out corruption between a former VP + several other Democrats and corrupt Ukrainian companies sure seems like it's in the interest of the US, especially when we are expected to provide them monetary and military aid. You want to impeach Trump because he "didn't follow normal procedure"? Because he went about it differently?

You are trying to pin the sitting president of quid pro quo for investigating the quid pro quo of the previous VP and some high-ranking Democrats. This is not my idea of justice nor is it a good use of taxpayer dollars.
 

DarkMage619

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We don't know if there was no way. That is why it makes sense to investigate Biden and to question him. I'm sure if we ask "did anyone tell you to make these arrangements?" and Biden answers "Obama" then we can drag him in. Up to this point, I don't see any evidence that Obama was personally involved.


Rooting out corruption between a former VP + several other Democrats and corrupt Ukrainian companies sure seems like it's in the interest of the US, especially when we are expected to provide them monetary and military aid. You want to impeach Trump because he "didn't follow normal procedure"? Because he went about it differently?

You are trying to pin the sitting president of quid pro quo for investigating the quid pro quo of the previous VP and some high-ranking Democrats. This is not my idea of justice nor is it a good use of taxpayer dollars.
Care to explain why Rudy, Igor, and Lev should do these investigations over the FBI and DOJ? If it's about a wholesale investigation on corruption there are legal means to do that.

I still have not seen how a VP can withhold aid without empowerment from the president. Rudy, Igor and Lev were empowered by Trump.

Finally if there was Ukrainian corruption by the previous administration Obama was the head of that government and he should be targeted FIRST. He was president. Democrats aren't targeting Pence.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Care to explain why Rudy, Igor, and Lev should do these investigations over the FBI and DOJ? If it's about a wholesale investigation on corruption there are legal means to do that.
I don't think it's an either/or scenario, since we found out during these hearings that multiple others were involved, they were just sometimes given secondary or tertiary roles in the overall plan.

And the butthurt over being excluded seems to be a central theme of the witnesses in the hearing. I agree that Rudy's involvement is unusual but I also believe there was nothing ultimately corrupt or illegal about what was being done. These are not mutually-exclusive standpoints.

I still have not seen how a VP can withhold aid without empowerment from the president. Rudy, Igor and Lev were empowered by Trump.
That's why it would be good to interview the one who withheld aid to see if they were doing so with the empowerment of the president.

Finally if there was Ukrainian corruption by the previous administration Obama was the head of that government and he should be targeted FIRST. He was president. Democrats aren't targeting Pence.
Pence didn't go to Ukraine to get a prosecutor that was looking into his son's company removed, though. It's not that Biden was the VP, it's that Biden appears to have a conflict of interest.

Watch this softball interview from a month ago and hopefully get a good chuckle out of it:


The treatment of Biden's son shows where the media bias is.
 
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pramod

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Another disastrous poll for the Dems.


At this point I'm seeing the chance of the impeachment going to the Senate at less than 30%.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Another disastrous poll for the Dems.


At this point I'm seeing the chance of the impeachment going to the Senate at less than 30%.
Polls like this are why I think Dems will fold. The TV cameras and the favorable headlines won't be able to conjure up impeachment articles. The Dems will have to put pen to paper and actually state in plain language what they are impeaching Trump for, and then the whole House gets to debate it one last time (I think?) and vote on it.

I wonder if the White House's support for a full trial in the Senate was meant as a scare tactic:


Will Dems flinch? I can see them bowing out as they watch support in the polls drop, seeing how they changed the accusation from "quid pro quo" to "bribery" based on polls. They're a slave to their own reputation, like nearly any politician.
 
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Joe T.

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Polls like this are why I think Dems will fold. The TV cameras and the favorable headlines won't be able to conjure up impeachment articles. The Dems will have to put pen to paper and actually state in plain language what they are impeaching Trump for, and then the whole House gets to debate it one last time (I think?) and vote on it.

I wonder if the White House's support for a full trial in the Senate was meant as a scare tactic:


Will Dems flinch? I can see them bowing out as they watch support in the polls drop, seeing how they changed the accusation from "quid pro quo" to "bribery" based on polls. They're a slave to their own reputation, like nearly any politician.

They planned to include obstruction from the Mueller report all along, I could swear I remember Pelosi bringing it up on camera at some point over the last month or two, and it makes sense since even after Mueller completely fell apart on them the Dem/media spin was able to keep the case for obstruction alive. Again, I think the only thing that's going to derail this impeachment train is damaging findings from the DOJ. The leak from Horowitz shows me there's potential for that to happen, but we'll have to see how that plays out Dec 9th and 11th.

If an FBI agent gets nailed for falsifying a FISA application it would be like removing the only block at the foundation of a Jenga tower that's holding it all up. The public sentiment will shift substantially if that happens, confirming that two years of the country's life was spent talking about a completely fabricated case - no way to defend it at that point. It could become one of the biggest "Told you so" moments in recorded human history for Trump and work against their current attempt to impeach.

 

Blade2.0

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They have more than enough to pass it in the House. It will get blocked in the Senate because that dumb bitch (his name rhymes with it)
 
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They have more than enough to pass it in the House. It will get blocked in the Senate because that dumb bitch (his name rhymes with it)
I don’t think you understand what is taking place. The Dems aren’t sure they should impeach even though they could.
 

HeresJohnny

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They have more than enough to pass it in the House. It will get blocked in the Senate because that dumb bitch (his name rhymes with it)
Yeah, surely not because it was a sham. I still believe it's going to the Senate but your side will walk away from it bloodied and unpopular, and Trump will still be president. You fucked yourselves.
 

HeresJohnny

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I don’t think you understand what is taking place. The Dems aren’t sure they should impeach even though they could.
I think it's all a ruse. They're trying to act like they're being objective with the decision, but the entire process hasn't been objective. The only Dems likely to flinch at the idea are those up for reelection in states Trump won. How many of those are there, does anyone know? Is the number high enough to kill this thing?
 
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I think it's all a ruse. They're trying to act like they're being objective with the decision, but the entire process hasn't been objective. The only Dems likely to flinch at the idea are those up for reelection in states Trump won. How many of those are there, does anyone know? Is the number high enough to kill this thing?
It’s either a ruse or it’s backpedaling. Time will tell.
 
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HeresJohnny

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It’s either a ruse or it’s backpedaling. Time will tell.
True, and I hope you are right and I'm wrong. I just keep thinking back to the Blue Dog Democrats that walked the plank to get ObamaCare passed knowing full well it meant the end of their political lives. I've said it before, but the Democrats are fucking crazy in the same way those fucking wackadoos in Mad Max Fury Road were; they're almost identical save for one doesn't spray silver paint all over their mouths before deep sixing themselves.
 

dionysus

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The evidence is that Biden DID NOT POSSES THE AUTHORITY TO WITHOLD AID WITHOUT THE PRESIDENTS CONSENT!

Pardon the caps it seemed like my point was lost. There is no way Obama wasn't aware. Lets all remember people here say Biden confessed his crimes in that forum! How could everyone in Obama administration miss that? Republicans caught it!

And finally... The DOJ/FBI is the appropriate organization to investigate American citizens. Not Giuliani. Not Igor and Lev. Trump abused his powers for a personal political gain not in the interest of the US.
The DOJ and FBI appear no where in the Constitution. The DOJ didn't exist till 1870. All the executives powers are 100% the Presidents powers. The president can delegate his powers to a pig farmer in Iowa and it is completely appropriate.

Also, the use of non-ratified agents of the President has been done by every president. Just look up Harry Hopkins under Roosevelt. He was directly dealing with the UK and Russia during WWII.
 
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