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[Phoenix RISING]

Back in April, the Dutch gaming authority said it had looked into loot boxes in 10 games and found four contravened its Betting and Gaming Act. It said the content of these loot boxes was determined by chance and, crucially, the prizes could be traded outside of the game. Therefore, the prizes had a market value.

Valve's note to Dutch Steam users reveals the company received two letters from the Dutch Gaming Authority, stating both CS:GO and Dota 2 contain loot boxes that violate the Dutch Betting and Gaming Act.

Valve, which insists it does not agree with the Gaming Authority's view of loot boxes, said it had no choice but to pull item trading and transfers as it continues to argue its case.

Yesterday, the Gaming Authority issued a press release saying it was going to check up on video games from today, 20th June, to see if their loot boxes were compliant with Dutch law.

"Concerns at the Gaming Authority are mainly about the fact that there are indications that loot boxes encourage gambling addiction," the note to press reads.

"There is consensus worldwide that gambling can not be played by minors. An adjustment that providers could make is replacing the loot boxes in their game with 'direct buy': virtual items that are known in advance can then be purchased."

The Dutch Gaming Authority said it can impose administrative fines of up to 830,000 euros (or, if that is more, 10 per cent of the company's worldwide turnover that violates the law) if it turns out game companies have not made sufficient adjustments.

"There is consensus worldwide that gambling can not be played by minors. An adjustment that providers could make is replacing the loot boxes in their game with 'direct buy': virtual items that are known in advance can then be purchased."

Source

I 100% approve of the item/market system that Valve had with DotA 2. I own more than one Arcana item, which are $30 each.

However, I 100% do not approve of the loot boxes they use, where the item you get is random, where, if you want a gun for Sniper, and the set is for five different heroes, you might have to buy all five before you roll the Sniper gun.

Just let me buy what I want, thanks.

 

[Dunki]

Source

I 100% approve of the item/market system that Valve had with DotA 2. I own more than one Arcana item, which are $30 each.

However, I 100% do not approve of the loot boxes they use, where the item you get is random, where, if you want a gun for Sniper, and the set is for five different heroes, you might have to buy all five before you roll the Sniper gun.

Just let me buy what I want, thanks.

but this will not happen at all. And this is exact the outcome games will now face. Every f2P mobile game will needs to be removed now. And loot-boxes are really nothing else then random Loot in Games except you also can buy them. You NEVER have to buy these boxes but with this law you take away ANY choice.

It is a absolute idiotic decision and will lead to more expensive games or games not even be released in this region/country. Congratulations for another form of Censorship you do not agree with that got removed.

 

[klosos]

I like Valve overall but I agree with the Dutch Law to be honest , hopefully they come down on all companies who sell loot boxes.

Hopefully most companies moving forward will allow the customer to buy the exact skin or item they want

 

[Lanrutcon]

Can't wait for the law to catch up to the bullshit practices.

 

[Spukc]

Hahaha get fucked valve.
What a glorious day this is.
Get that shit OUT of my games.
I hope EA is fucking next

 

[B_Signal]

I'm not fully understanding this. Are Valve/developers still allowed to sell lootboxes, be it for money or for ingame currency bought with really money so long as users can't trade them, or is it if they have any monetary value at all?

 

[Morinaga]

Dont know what Valve's bitching about. Sounds like their games have loot boxes, and then the rewards can be resold or traded. Pretty straight forward and the dutch authorities have told them no in a pretty simplistic way, probably so they dont get confused about whats gonna fly and what is not. Any more words and they would have called it over complex.

Valve would have been better off just notifying their dutch customers instead of trying to point fingers like a big baby.

 

[Spukc]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/730/tradingforum/

Just look at this fucking shit.
Valve playing dumb hahahaha.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I'm not fully understanding this. Are Valve/developers still allowed to sell lootboxes, be it for money or for ingame currency bought with really money so long as users can't trade them, or is it if they have any monetary value at all?

The spirit of the law is that loot boxes create a discrepancy in the market. For the same $5, you and I purchase the same loot box, but we get two different items; one item might be worth $6 on the market, and the other $4 on the market. This discrepancy is akin to gambling, which is in violation of the Dutch Betting and Gaming Act.

 

[Dunki]

The spirit of the law is that loot boxes create a discrepancy in the market. For the same $5, you and I purchase the same loot box, but we get two different items; one item might be worth $6 on the market, and the other $4 on the market. This discrepancy is akin to gambling, which is in violation of the Dutch Betting and Gaming Act.

So just like these here. Shut them down!!!!!! And they are targeted at kids.......

 

[B_Signal]

The spirit of the law is that loot boxes create a discrepancy in the market. For the same $5, you and I purchase the same loot box, but we get two different items; one item might be worth $6 on the market, and the other $4 on the market. This discrepancy is akin to gambling, which is in violation of the Dutch Betting and Gaming Act.

so they can't sell them?

So just like these here. Shut them down!!!!!! And they are targeted at kids.......

whether deliberately or not, comparisons like this are disingenuous. If you buy a kinder egg or football stickers you're getting a physical thing, that's what you're buying (chocolate to eat with a free toy to remind you that you've overpaid for so-so chocolate). With lootboxes you're just buying the chance, there's nothing tangible to them

 

[Dunki]

so they can't sell them?



whether deliberately or not, comparisons like this are disingenuous. If you buy a kinder egg or football stickers you're getting a physical thing, that's what you're buying (chocolate to eat with a free toy to remind you that you've overpaid for so-so chocolate). With lootboxes you're just buying the chance, there's nothing tangible to them

Wrong. Just like with these you are buying something and you will get something. HOWEVER the rarity is the key here. Just like with these there is a chance to get a figurines or else you get a toy. There are no lootboxes which tell you sorry you do not get anything. Take gacha games: In Gacha games you will always get something for summoning in most games it is characters in others its equipment etc. but there is NO instance ever which makes you get nothing at all

And trust me as a kid I have paid tons of money to get my pictures albums of WM stars complete. It was fucking expensive.

 

[MMaRsu]

Good stuff

 

[B_Signal]

Wrong. Just like with these you are buying something and you will get something. HOWEVER the rarity is the key here. Just like with these there is a chance to get a figurines or else you get a toy. There are no lootboxes which tell you sorry you do not get anything. Take gacha games: In Gacha games you will always get something for summoning n most games it is characters in others its equipment etc. but there is NO instance ever which makes you get nothing at all

And trust me as a kid I have paid tons of money to get my pictures albums of WM stars complete. It was fucking expensive.

I said anything tangible

 

[Dunki]

I said anything tangible

This does not make it different. In fact gambling is something to get something tangible. You get a digitial product or item just like I buy my digital games. They are still a product or license I own.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

So just like these here. Shut them down!!!!!! And they are targeted at kids.......

Online gambling in the Netherlands is illegal.

 

[B_Signal]

This does not make it different. In fact gambling is something to get something tangible. You get a digitial product or item just like I buy my digital games. They are still a product or license I own.

I think you've misunderstood, I'm saying you're buying a physical thing, be that chocolate or stickers, I think that's the difference. You're welcome to disagree whether that matters, but there is a difference between a Kinder egg and a loot box

 

[Dunki]

I think you've misunderstood, I'm saying you're buying a physical thing, be that chocolate or stickers, I think that's the difference. You're welcome to disagree whether that matters, but there is a difference between a Kinder egg and a loot box

Only if you beleive that there is a difference in a game you buy physically and a game you buy on Steam. (Hint there is none except you get a piece of plastic that can break)

 

[B_Signal]

Only if you beleive that there is a difference in a game you buy physically and a game you buy on Steam. (Hint there is none except you get a piece of plastic that can break)

a game isn't a loot box. I don't really get why you're struggling with this tbh

There's no difference between going in to a bookies and placing a bet or doing it through an app on my phone. Buying a drink for 50p that has a potential prize code is different to paying 50p just for the code

 

[Dunki]

a game isn't a loot box. I don't really get why you're struggling with this tbh

There's no difference between going in to a bookies and placing a bet or doing it through an app on my phone. Buying a drink for 50p that has a potential prize code is different to paying 50p just for the code

I do not now if its because of my bad english or if its you but what I was saying is this:

DVD = Tanglible . for 50$ items what you buy
Digital Product = not tangible 50$ items what you buy
Sticker = tanglible for 90p items random
digital item like a character = not tangible 90p items random

So please tell me what is different here besides that one is digital and one is not. And if we have established that t a digital product is still a product then why is a digital Item not a real product even though it fulfills everything this sticker does? I am sorry but I do not see how you can see a difference here.... You also buy with these stickers a chance to get the character you want. Just like with loot boxes ONLY difference is that they are more flashy when you open it.

edit: And even bigger. You can get these loot boxes for free by playing the game. this is not possible with the stickers.

 

[radewagon]

It is a absolute idiotic decision and will lead to more expensive games or games not even be released in this region/country. Congratulations for another form of Censorship you do not agree with that got removed.

The best answer to things like censorship and government overreach are self-regulation. For example, when it comes to content, the video game industry regulated itself with the ESRB and now we have a robust system in place that ensures that even games with fairly adult content are allowed a place on store shelves. That same ESRB decided to kick the can down the road on lootboxes and basically just ignores any negative impact they might have. This opens the door for governments to do what they do in order to protect their people from being fleeced by overzealous game developers. Nothing would have happened if the games industry had been responsible. But they took it too far and got too greedy. There needs to be a check against companies when they begin to treat their customers too callously.

And let me be clear here. The lootbox saturation is not about artistic integrity. It is about money. If games need to be more expensive in order for them to be released, I feel like that's perfectly okay for many. I would rather pay more for a legitimate gaming experience than to have to play one that is a gambling-eque behemoth that exists to take advantage of people that are susceptible to shameful business practices. Gambling addiction is real and these garbage systems built into these games can really destroy someone's life.

Some things do not deserve to be defended.

 

[WaterAstro]

Steam Marketplace is the one place where it is truly gambling, where won loot can be flipped for monetary value.

 

[Dunki]

The best answer to things like censorship and government overreach are self-regulation. For example, when it comes to content, the video game industry regulated itself with the ESRB and now we have a robust system in place that ensures that even games with fairly adult content are allowed a place on store shelves. That same ESRB decided to kick the can down the road on lootboxes and basically just ignores any negative impact they might have. This opens the door for governments to do what they do in order to protect their people from being fleeced by overzealous game developers. Nothing would have happened if the games industry had been responsible. But they took it too far and got too greedy. There needs to be a check against companies when they begin to treat their customers too callously.

And let me be clear here. The lootbox saturation is not about artistic integrity. It is about money. If games need to be more expensive in order for them to be released, I feel like that's perfectly okay for many. I would rather pay more for a legitimate gaming experience than to have to play one that is a gambling-eque behemoth that exists to take advantage of people that are susceptible to shameful business practices. Gambling addiction is real and these garbage systems built into these games can really destroy someone's life.

Some things do not deserve to be defended.

IT is not a robust system when it denys games with controversial content the rating at all. AKA These stupid WAIFU Japanese games. And I rather want to have the decision to decide what I can and can not buy I do not need some gov. or group tell me that I can not buy Dying light in any german store or on Steam.

Also I do like Gacha games. I play 3 of them on a daily basis and NEVER paid any money for these so called loot boxes. I play the game to get gems so I can get these loot boxes. AGAIN if you want to pay for these boxes it is your free will to buy them. If you are too stupid and want to spend your money it is your fault and no one else.

 

[Dunki]

Steam Marketplace is the one place where it is truly gambling, where won loot can be flipped for monetary value.

See this is an argument I can understand even though there are people who buy their games with this because otherwise they could not afford it. So I think it is also unfair to rob people of this possibility to buy games.

 

[iconmaster]

I may play the world's tiniest violin for Valve, or it may be a flugelhorn, or it may be a bottle cap that reads "Sorry you didn't win." Valve will have to pony up to find out.

 

[metareferential]

Steam Marketplace is the one place where it is truly gambling, where won loot can be flipped for monetary value.

If loot boxes are random, and you don't know what you're paying for, that's gambling as well.

Hell, it's even worse than that. xD
fake-edit: I know it isn't gambling, you get the point.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think the concept of loot boxes is fine. Look at Magic the Gathering!

The execution in video games has been very, very poor. I am begrudgingly on the Dutch's side on this argument.

 

[LordPezix]

I don't like loot boxes but it isn't gambling.

For it to be gambling it would have to be uncertain of a good/material/money, which isn't the case because you are always guaranteed something which eliminates the chance aspect of gambling. Rarity has nothing to do with it.

If loot boxes are gambling then so is trying to buy the cookie dough Ben and Jerrys container with the most cookie dough!!!!!!

 

[jshackles]

I don't like loot boxes but it isn't gambling.

For it to be gambling it would have to be uncertain of a good/material/money, which isn't the case because you are always guaranteed something which eliminates the chance aspect of gambling. Rarity has nothing to do with it.

Except in this particular case, where rarity directly correlates with real amounts of money the item can be sold for on the marketplace. You can open a CSGO crate for $3 and either get $0.03 back for your digital goodies or $500.00 back for your digital goodies. Or, I guess, have some sort of customized looking in-game weapon.

 

[LordPezix]

Except in this particular case, where rarity directly correlates with real amounts of money the item can be sold for on the marketplace. You can open a CSGO crate for $3 and either get $0.03 back for your digital goodies or $500.00 back for your digital goodies. Or, I guess, have some sort of customized looking in-game weapon.

Yeah I get that aspect, but a lot of games have RNG elements that are sold at price points based on rare items and such. I mean are they going to start banning games that have accounts sold on ebay because someone got the RN-Jesus Godsword drop from the raid?

Wasn't that a big thing in WoW back in the day?

I know that is a stretch, and I totally get your point, but if we start down the road of Loot boxes are gambling, I am just afraid of how far that umbrella extends ya know?

 

[jshackles]

Yeah I get that aspect, but a lot of games have RNG elements that are sold at price points based on rare items and such. I mean are they going to start banning games that have accounts sold on ebay because someone got the RN-Jesus Godsword drop from the raid?

Wasn't that a big thing in WoW back in the day?

I know that is a stretch, and I totally get your point, but if we start down the road of Loot boxes are gambling, I am just afraid of how far that umbrella extends ya know?

Oh I totally understand and agree with your viewpoint. But this isn't exactly the most noble hill to die on for that cause, since it's the one that has such a direct correlation back to real money out of any other loot-box system in any other game ecosystem since the developer (in this case, Valve) has provided the means in which to do so (Steam marketplace). Valve is literally taking a cut of your gambling "winnings". The whole thing kinda reminds me of pachinko parlors in Japan where you win the little metal balls which are tangible items and can be used to keep playing, but in reality are just hoarded so you can take them across the street and trade them for things like grocery vouchers.

I would agree that it's a bridge too far to compare something like this to selling your WoW account on eBay, but I'm also of the mind that this definitely should be extended to predatory mobile F2P gatcha games marketed to children with no way of "cashing out", but for a completely different set of reasons.

 

[WaterAstro]

If loot boxes are random, and you don't know what you're paying for, that's gambling as well.

Hell, it's even worse than that. xD
fake-edit: I know it isn't gambling, you get the point.

Yeah, I never said Loot boxes aren't bad because it's not gambling ever in Neogaf, but loot boxes addiction needs to be separate from gambling addiction because they give different rewards to be addicted to.

Loot boxes are worse in terms of how you essentially get nothing out of it because it's virtual, but gambling is worse in terms of the addiction of winning money or something of a monetary value, and then using those winnings to try and win again. Gambling is a much worse addiction, and you cannot treat a gambling addict the same way as a loot box addict.

 

[B_Signal]

I don't like loot boxes but it isn't gambling.

For it to be gambling it would have to be uncertain of a good/material/money, which isn't the case because you are always guaranteed something which eliminates the chance aspect of gambling. Rarity has nothing to do with it.

If loot boxes are gambling then so is trying to buy the cookie dough Ben and Jerrys container with the most cookie dough!!!!!!

No, in that analogy you're getting the product you're paying for; ice cream. They aren't selling you the chance of more cookie dough. What you're talking about is probably game theory

 

[Makariel]

I find it interesting how many on a gaming forum cheer for laws that restrict what games are allowed to contain. I would have expected that from the yellow press, but not necessarily here. Will the cheers continue when laws start to restrict use of "questionable" items within a game, like drugs or guns, because "think of the children"? Australia already has some baffling laws regarding depiction of drug use in games, what if they extend that? Are we cheering them for censoring games like Fallout even further, because of their inclusion of things like combat stims?

I'd like the goverment out of my games if possible (any government!), but seems like that's an unpopular opinion to have right now.

 

[B_Signal]

I find it interesting how many on a gaming forum cheer for laws that restrict what games are allowed to contain. I would have expected that from the yellow press, but not necessarily here. Will the cheers continue when laws start to restrict use of "questionable" items within a game, like drugs or guns, because "think of the children"? Australia already has some baffling laws regarding depiction of drug use in games, what if they extend that? Are we cheering them for censoring games like Fallout even further, because of their inclusion of things like combat stims?

I'd like the goverment out of my games if possible (any government!), but seems like that's an unpopular opinion to have right now.

like age ratings?

 

[Helios]

So they're "fixing" the gambling problem by removing the only thing that gives those items real life value? How's that fixing anything? Lootboxes are still a thing and people are even more incentivized to open them instead of just buying the item outright from the steam marketplace.

 

[Paasei]

Could've seen this coming. Instead of banning lootboxes from the games, they just ban people. Lootboxes are illegal, not being stupid and buy items that are worth more than the game itself.
In that regard, nothing is solved in the sense the Dutch Gambling and Gaming Act can't still present Valve with this fine.

 

[B_Signal]

So they're "fixing" the gambling problem by removing the only thing that gives those items real life value? How's that fixing anything? Lootboxes are still a thing and people are even more incentivized to open them instead of just buying the item outright from the steam marketplace.

this I do agree with. I can sort of see the logic, if you can't profit from it maybe you reduce the appeal, but most people aren't buying loot boxes to potentially profit, they want the items. Selling what you don't want is the only recompense we have as consumers.

 

[Morinaga]

So please tell me what is different here besides that one is digital and one is not. .

The digital one is treated as a service. The other is an actual physical object.

Ill list the differences for you:

Digital
Only exists in a binary format
It can be deleted
It can be copied
It is not "owned" it is "Licensed"
It can only be provided as part of a digital service (generally speaking)
Licenser can revoke access
Service provider can revoke access

Physical:
It is a real object
It will always exits in some form
It is owned,
You can throw it at people, attempt to eat it, stick it up your nose even. (or at least try)
You can freely sell, or trade it

Existentially there are far more differences than similarities. Reading through your arguments seemed to suggest that maybe the Dutch government should treat kids stickers and Kinder Surprise as gambling. So I said that statement out loud and it sounded stupider than it read.

Both digital and physical are different and should be treated as such. I mean I don't want to buy a burger and have the clown take it away cos I didnt eat it how he likes.

 

[Makariel]

like age ratings?

Loot boxes are not allowed in some countries irrespective of age rating, do I see that correct? You just infer from what I've written that I want free heroin in schools and for pre-schoolers or what? That's not what I was saying. But as an adult I don't want the government telling me at gunpoint (and that's what laws ultimately do) how I am allowed to spend my free time*. I don't particularly care about loot boxes, crates, whatever, but think that every adult should have the free choice about how they spend their money*. Ultimately the question is where the line should be drawn between what's acceptable and what not*, but feel like the whole loot box thing is blown way out of proportion*.

* already existing laws apply

edit:

Digital
Only exists in a binary format
It can be deleted
It can be copied
It is not "owned" it is "Licensed"
It can only be provided as part of a digital service (generally speaking)
Licenser can revoke access
Service provider can revoke access

Physical:
It is a real object
It will always exits in some form
It is owned,
You can throw it at people, attempt to eat it, stick it up your nose even. (or at least try)
You can freely sell, or trade it

If I would feel like nitpicking I would have plenty of things here to pull apart. And I don't even need to start with "the universe as we know it will cease to exist, nothing lasts forever". But you conflate ownership with the item being physical or digital (let's discount the fact that every digital item has a physical manifestation in some sort of memory somewhere, stored as a series as 1s and 0s). Anyone who looked at recent statistics on vehicle "ownership" in developed worlds will conclude that cars, while they are clearly physical, do not usually belong to the people who drive them. Their right to drive them is depending on a number of regular payments, to banks, insurances and the government. If you don't keep up with mortgage payments, the bank can also revoke access to your physical house (in some countries easier than in others).

 

[Dunki]

The digital one is treated as a service. The other is an actual physical object.

Ill list the differences for you:

Digital
Only exists in a binary format
It can be deleted
It can be copied
It is not "owned" it is "Licensed"
It can only be provided as part of a digital service (generally speaking)
Licenser can revoke access
Service provider can revoke access

Physical:
It is a real object
It will always exits in some form
It is owned,
You can throw it at people, attempt to eat it, stick it up your nose even. (or at least try)
You can freely sell, or trade it

Existentially there are far more differences than similarities. Reading through your arguments seemed to suggest that maybe the Dutch government should treat kids stickers and Kinder Surprise as gambling. So I said that statement out loud and it sounded stupider than it read.

Both digital and physical are different and should be treated as such. I mean I don't want to buy a burger and have the clown take it away cos I didnt eat it how he likes.

Your first big mistake is that you do not own a game on a disk. You own the right to use it aka license and the blank disc yes but thats it.. If you would own the game you could change it which often is considered not legal. You have to accept the EULA that says tha you own the right to use it etc.

And you second mistake is that I am not saying that they should treat kids stickers which by the way I spent an unhealthy amount of for because I wanted a complete set not as gambling but rather treat loot boxes like Kid stickers because they are the same they are an Item with random value sold for a fixed price. Only difference is that one is digital and no is not digital.

 

[BANGS]

I like freedom, so the law stepping into my favorite hobby is scary and wrong. I don't like lootboxes so I don't buy them, end of story. I see no reason why people who do like them shouldn't be able to buy them and it's pretty sad that people are celebrating it...

 

[Lanrutcon]

I like freedom, so the law stepping into my favorite hobby is scary and wrong. I don't like lootboxes so I don't buy them, end of story. I see no reason why people who do like them shouldn't be able to buy them and it's pretty sad that people are celebrating it...

If you don't like the law stepping into your hobby, maybe you should consider why it was necessary in the first place? You're blaming the cops for intervening while ignoring the unregulated casino for kids. Priorities, dude?

And let's not pretend that the 1000 fools buying the loot boxes don't affect the people who don't. The publishers force developers to design their games to push loot boxes.

 

[iconmaster]

I like freedom, so the law stepping into my favorite hobby is scary and wrong.

It’s why the ESRB was created — Self-regulation to prevent government regulation. They decided to punt on this issue, and here we are.

(The ESRB is not global, but EA, Activision and Valve are American companies.)

 

[BANGS]

You're blaming the cops

When the hell did I do that? I didn't blame anyone. If I WAS to blame someone, it would be the mindless masses crying about how their games are ruined by lootboxes to their government. If publishers are forcing devs to design their games to push loot boxes, there's a very simple fix: Don't buy them. The people that like them will buy them and play them, while you can purchase and play games that don't suck. That simple...

It's even more disgusting that these basement dwelling neckbeards are doing it under the guise of "think of the children!" when they're really only doing it for selfish reasons...

 

[Makariel]

You're blaming the cops for intervening while ignoring the unregulated casino for kids. Priorities, dude?

How would a kid have access to a credit card to make purchases in this unregulated casino for kids? Parents, dude?

 

[MMaRsu]

Yeah, just dont buy them is the best argument against loot boxes ever. Just ignore them guys! It will just go away!

/s

 

[BANGS]

Yeah, just dont buy them is the best argument against loot boxes ever. Just ignore them guys! It will just go away!

/s

Who said anything about them going away? I don't care if they go away or not. I'm not some asshole who thinks that just because I don't like a product it shouldn't exist...

 

[Louis Cyphre]

If you don't like the law stepping into your hobby, maybe you should consider why it was necessary in the first place? You're blaming the cops for intervening while ignoring the unregulated casino for kids. Priorities, dude?

And let's not pretend that the 1000 fools buying the loot boxes don't affect the people who don't. The publishers force developers to design their games to push loot boxes.

If lootboxes impact your game then yes I agree. Free to play games is a different story. If lootboxes are purely cosmetic then who gives a fuck.

 

[MMaRsu]

Who said anything about them going away? I don't care if they go away or not. I'm not some asshole who thinks that just because I don't like a product it shouldn't exist...

So now I'm an asshole for saying that lootboxes are pure crap and shouldn't be allowed in games?

Lol. You have such good arguments for why lootboxes are so dear to your heart. Do you think it falls under the same guise of censorship? People are trying to make the industry better when they say this shit is crap.

Just like when people rallied against the 'Online Pass'. It wasn't just 'neckbeards' doing it for the kids. They were doing it because it endangers the medium with its pathetic bullshit excuses ( "second hand games are threatening the industry!" ).

The corporations are just looking for another excuse to take your money, make you look like a giant tool in the process and claim its all in the name of progress.

Lootboxes are straight up horrible. There is really nothing good about them in full priced games. They don't belong there.