Valve: Steam Machines also available with graphics from AMD & Intel

#1
& Intel? Really?

“Last week, we posted some technical specs of our first wave of Steam Machine prototypes,” said Valve spokesman Doug Lombardi. “Although the graphics hardware that we've selected for the first wave of prototypes is a variety of Nvidia cards, that is not an indication that Steam Machines are Nvidia-only. In 2014, there will be Steam Machines commercially available with graphics hardware made by AMD, Nvidia, and Intel. Valve has worked closely together with all three of these companies on optimizing their hardware for SteamOS, and will continue to do so into the foreseeable future.”
http://www.maximumpc.com/valve_steam_machines_won’t_be_exclusive_nvidia_2013

So this also means cheaper entry-point for Steam Machines but also weaker (graphics) hardware.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
#2
This isn't surprising as Valve isn't going to be the only company manufacturing Steam Machines. It just seems to be clarification that Nvidia GPUs won't be considered part of whatever standards that will form the Steam Machine certification.
 
#3
This isn't surprising as Valve isn't going to be the only company manufacturing Steam Machines. This to me just seems like clarification that Nvidia GPUs won't be considered part of whatever standards that will apply to the Steam Machine certification.
I didn't think Valve would be manufacturing *any* steam machines? The protos are just for beta testing.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
#7
obviously they waited for everybody to sign up for the Steam machine raffle to let this out..

If I end up winning a Steambox with integrated graphics, GAF can have it!
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
#8
I didn't think Valve would be manufacturing *any* steam machines? The protos are just for beta testing.
Gabe's explicitly stated otherwise:

So are most of these going to be Linux-based Steam Boxes?

We’ll come out with our own and we’ll sell it to consumers by ourselves. That’ll be a Linux box, [and] if you want to install Windows you can. We’re not going to make it hard. This is not some locked box by any stretch of the imagination. We also think that a controller that has higher precision and lower latency is another interesting thing to have.
I also gather that there's nothing preventing a manufacturer from releasing a Windows-based Steam Machine if it so desires.
 
#10
what a mess.

I don't see any point in buying them if they will be simple preassembled PCs with SteamOs.

I can make my own pc and install steamos if I want.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
#12
what a mess.

I don't see any point in buying them if they will be simple preassembled PCs with SteamOs.

I can make my own pc and install steamos if I want.
Those who prefer to build their own systems aren't the target audience. This dance has been done to death in previous threads.
 
#13
My issue is more with lowering the base or entry spec - 660 is a good choice IMO.
Couldn't some of them just be for the cheaper models since they plan on a bunch of options? Maybe the streaming focus box could use Intel integrated hardware, etc.

I think the key here is that Valve wants options.
 
#14
Intel's Iris Pro is pretty decent and will create a lower cost option.
Quite expensive actually;



Couldn't some of them just be for the cheaper models since they plan on a bunch of options? Maybe the streaming focus box could use Intel integrated hardware, etc.

I think the key here is that Valve wants options.
Yeah, more options are always better but I hope there entry threshold selected by Valve is decent.
 
#18
My issue is more with lowering the base or entry spec - 660 is a good choice IMO.
I guess a good idea is to make the whole PC building aspect more abstract by having a box coming with a integrated CPU graphics solution and offering the possibility to add a dedicated GPU later via slot-in and call it something like "Medium Graphics Upgrade" or "High Graphics Upgrade", so people don't have to fiddle around with dealing all the HW details when they just want better graphics.

Don't know if this is feasible but it would increase the number of people upgrading their SteamBox.
 
#24
Again, some people here are thinking far too short term.

Right now, I think it's fair to say that Intel's integrated graphics are lacking. Yes, Iris is a huge step forward, but it's still not enough.

Intel are going to be making huge plays over the next few years, though. I imagine next year's CPUs (broadwell, if I recall correctly?) will have significantly better graphics performance than Haswell, and I imagine the CPUs the year after will be better still.

Will these integrated graphics be enough to satisfy the needs of ardent power users who demand the best graphics? Of course not. Will they be enough to satisfy the needs of Xbox 360/PS3 owners who will be looking to upgrade in 2015 when crossgen COD/Fifa/etc. games are starting to disappear? I think so.
 
#25
Intel graphics will be good for lighter load steam machines, but if anyone tries to push them for 3D-centric steamachines, they're gonna get a clobberin'
 
#26
I imagine most people buying a new gaming machine want to be able to run games a bit more demanding than Portal 2.
Communication is the key. I think they should add have games grouped in tiers representing the HW requirements. (Green, Yellow, Red for example)
If you buy a Steam Machine it has a sticker with the corresponding color on the box. If you want to play a Yellow game you would have to buy a Yellow Upgrade which includes a dedicated GPU or something like this.
 

evlcookie

but ever so delicious
#27
The intel boxes could also be used for a cheap stream option if you already have a powerful enough rig to do all your gaming on. It certainly has enough power to drive the front end of the steamOS and potentially play any - to a degree - basic games on it locally.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
#29
The intel boxes could also be used for a cheap stream option if you already have a powerful enough rig to do all your gaming on. It certainly has enough power to drive the front end of the steamOS and potentially play any - to a degree - basic games on it locally.
I intend to use my laptop as a streaming device. It'll be great to no longer have to lug my tower into the lounge room.
 
#30
I'm actually curious about whether Kaveri will be supported or not. I see plenty of people being okay with Intel as HTPC, but AMD's APUs are pretty well suited for low-end gaming and multimedia as well.
 

poopninjamvc3mk

I sucked six dicks to get this tag.
#32
& Intel? Really?



http://www.maximumpc.com/valve_steam_machines_won’t_be_exclusive_nvidia_2013

So this also means cheaper entry-point for Steam Machines but also weaker (graphics) hardware.
OP you late, Intel been revolutionizing the integrated graphics game. I'm able to play most games on my work laptop with an intel hd graphics 4000 chip at medium settings on most modern games 720p which actually looks better than console. And most games before 2011 you can run on the highest settings minus AA with no problem(Batman Arkham Asylum Runs at 40-60fps for example). Not a graphical beat by any means but it's good enough to take on trips and enjoy some decent gaming.

It even replaces me having to take my 360 over to my friends house when we wanna run sets in SSF4AE.
 
#33
Whether or not this manages to be affordable enough to replace my aging "gaming PC" I do hope there are enough options to pick and choose whichever graphics are at the head of the pack by the time it comes out.
 
#34
Again, some people here are thinking far too short term.

Right now, I think it's fair to say that Intel's integrated graphics are lacking. Yes, Iris is a huge step forward, but it's still not enough.

Intel are going to be making huge plays over the next few years, though. I imagine next year's CPUs (broadwell, if I recall correctly?) will have significantly better graphics performance than Haswell, and I imagine the CPUs the year after will be better still.

Will these integrated graphics be enough to satisfy the needs of ardent power users who demand the best graphics? Of course not. Will they be enough to satisfy the needs of Xbox 360/PS3 owners who will be looking to upgrade in 2015 when crossgen COD/Fifa/etc. games are starting to disappear? I think so.
Yeah, Intel have been stepping up their graphics game and continuing to do so rather rapidly. They've certainly made more progress on that front than CPUs over the past few years, at least in terms of performance.

They'll never match dedicated GPU performance (or at least not this decade), but it could be "good enough" for mainstream use soon.
 
#36
Those who prefer to build their own systems aren't the target audience. This dance has been done to death in previous threads.
of course but, without a closed box as standard machine, they will be just expensive set top boxes for gamers.

They won't be consoles and they will be expensive PCs where you have to buy windows if you want to use it.

People buy consoles because they have a good costs/performance ration and they are supported for years.
Will it be the same with steam machine without a base product? No, it will be like android on smartphones, but this time there will be better and cheaper options available.



Having a standard spec machine made by Valve/others completely changes the prospective.
It's not the case anymore.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
#38
of course but, without a closed box as standard machine, they will be just expensive set top boxes for gamers.
Again, enthusiast gamers aren't the target audience here, because they prefer to build their own systems, but more to the point...

They won't be consoles and they will be expensive PCs where you have to buy windows if you want to use it.
...having a largely software-based standard and leaving the core components up to manufacturers means that Steam Machines can be released at various price points; you don't have to buy Windows, either.

People buy consoles because they have a good costs/performance ration and they are supported for years.
Will it be the same with steam machine without a base product? No, it will be like android on smartphones, but this time there will be better and cheaper options available.
It stands to reason that Steam Machines will not be loss-leading devices, but I don't think you're familiar with PC gaming if you believe that support will suddenly be dropped.

Having a standard spec machine made by Valve/others completely changes the prospective.
It's not the case anymore.
What prospective? What were you expecting?

Remember when NVIDIA bragged about being the only one working on Steam Machines? Good times.
Nvidia is the only GPU manufacturer working with Valve on the prototypes. Nothing to the contrary was said.
 
#43
Doesn't the new intel chip provide like 800gflops that is more then current gen consoles
And kinda close by to an X1.

Edit: Or was it 180Gflops 800gflops sounds kinda high
Performance wise, Iris Pro is a lot better than the 360/PS3.

The new 21.5" iMac is fitted with this SKU - http://ark.intel.com/products/76640/Intel-Core-i5-4570R-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_20-GHz

According to CPU-World, this SKU cost $288 - http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i5/Intel-Core i5-4570R.html

Some performance benchmarks.

http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7399/58591.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7399/58593.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7399/58595.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7399/58597.png
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7399/58599.png

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7399/...review-iris-pro-driving-an-accurate-display/3

Pretty decent, in my opinion.

I can see Intel making some Steam Machine specific CPU solutions in the future, as in, less powerful CPUs paired with a powerful integrated GPUs. Would be a good option for an entry level Steam Machine.
 
#44
Again, enthusiast gamers aren't the target audience here, because they prefer to build their own systems.

Having a largely software-based standard and leaving the core components up to manufacturers means that Steam Machines can be released at various price points; you don't have to buy Windows, either.

It stands to reason that Steam Machines will not be loss-leading devices, but I don't think you're familiar with PC gaming if you believe that support will suddenly be dropped.

What prospective? What were you expecting?

Nvidia is the only GPU manufacturer working with Valve on the prototypes. Nothing to the contrary was said.
So what's the target audience then?

people who already have a 99$ streaming device and are playing with smartphones/tablets and don't care anymore about motion gaming?

They can release whatever they want but they won't be cheap in less than 3 years.
Support won't be dropped at all but my device will be outdated and most of its power will be wasted because of the lack of optimization.
It won't compete on day one with real console unless I pay it a lot more.


I don't understand, who doyou think is going to buy steam machines?


I would buy it if they where pc/console hybrids because I need a new pc and I'd like to play games on it for a long time without spending lots of money or having to play at low resolutions and settings after few years.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
#45
So what's the target audience then?

people who already have a 99$ streaming device and are playing with smartphones/tablets and don't care anymore about motion gaming?
The same people buying Alienware's grossly overpriced X51, for one.

They can release whatever they want but they won't be cheap in less than 3 years.
Support won't be dropped at all but my device will be outdated and most of its power will be wasted because of the lack of optimization.
It won't compete on day one with real console unless I pay it a lot more.
While it's true that you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink, Steam Machine offerings at least give hardware baselines for developers to adhere to if they so desire.

I would buy it if they where pc/console hybrids because I need a new pc and I'd like to play games on it for a long time without spending lots of money or having to play at low resolutions and settings after few years.
The Steam Machine concept is largely defined by Valve moving into the living room, but it was never designed to compete with consoles at the market level -- loss-leading devices with performance that notably belie their price tags were never a distinct possibility.

Edit: I'm not trying to argue that the Steam Machine is a brilliant concept and will fix the problems many have with PC gaming and each device will sell 10 million units; I just think it's important to realise that Valve's plan here is simply to broaden the options current and would-be Steam users have, in doing so strengthening the viability of Linux as a gaming platform and, if we're lucky, developing a sort of malleable baseline for PC optimisation.
 
#47
So what's the target audience then?

people who already have a 99$ streaming device and are playing with smartphones/tablets and don't care anymore about motion gaming?

They can release whatever they want but they won't be cheap in less than 3 years.
Support won't be dropped at all but my device will be outdated and most of its power will be wasted because of the lack of optimization.
It won't compete on day one with real console unless I pay it a lot more.


I don't understand, who doyou think is going to buy steam machines?


I would buy it if they where pc/console hybrids because I need a new pc and I'd like to play games on it for a long time without spending lots of money or having to play at low resolutions and settings after few years.
My guess is steam machines will take off in 2015 when mid range pc hardware
run over current consoles. Given how fast pc hardware can move. Better low level api support from Nvidia and AMD.
Hope it has some market shattering effect on DirectX so microsoft and Khronos group also have to bring out an Low level Dx or OpenGL version.
 
#48
The same people buying Alienware's grossly overpriced X51, for one.



While it's true that you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink, Steam Machine offerings at least give hardware baselines for developers to adhere to if they so desire.



The Steam Machine concept is largely defined by Valve moving into the living room, but it was never designed to compete with consoles at the market level -- loss-leading devices with performance that notably belie their price tags were never a distinct possibility.

Edit: I'm not trying to argue that the Steam Machine is a brilliant concept and will fix the problems many have with PC gaming and each device will sell 10 million units; I just think it's important to realise that Valve's plan here is simply to broaden the options current and would-be Steam users have, in doing so strengthening the viability of Linux as a gaming platform and, if we're lucky, developing a sort of malleable baseline for PC optimisation.
so they are aiming at a small niche?

judging how they handled the marketing campaign seems so.

they don't have to compete head to head with console but only to have a good adoption rate, I would say 30-50 millions during 5-8 years at least.

I expected Valve to improve an existing concept and make it for the mass market (of gamers not casuals)
I don't see this happening.

Personally, I've lost my interest in the project, I doubt that in 2014 a steam machine will be the best option for me. I'll buy a regular pc and install steam os if it worths.


@dragonelite: unless in 2015 i can get a better configuration at a similar price tag.
 
#49
& Intel? Really?
No discrete GPU and onboard graphics only. Such a machine would be a complete budget model for indie gaming. Though Intel's open source GPU drivers are actually pretty good, a step above AMDs current Linux drivers in terms of stability at the moment. I have never really had any bad luck with intel integrated graphics on Linux with my current laptop.