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Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 officially announced

mcz117chief

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Sep 29, 2013
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Well I'll still give it a go. Witcher controls didn't bother me at all, so hopefully it's not TOO much worse.
The game really is great and yes, the combat is very clunky, especially ranged (melee a bit less). The unofficial patch is an absolute must without an exaggeration. It refuses to work on most modern pcs without it or is extremely unstable.
 

ZehDon

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Jun 13, 2013
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...Using gender pronouns is stupid as fuck though, no matter what.
I disagree entirely with this. The world of V:TM is extremely sexualised, with seduction literally being a character trait, and a legitimate path through the first game. Offering players options in games, rather than forcing one perspective, is the correct way to do inclusiveness. Offering someone the option to swap gender pro-nouns to better enable their own personal investment in their sexualised fantasy role playing game is not "stupid as fuck". I think it's actually pretty cool.

How come I've never heard of this game? Especially with all the praise you people are giving it. Fill me in!
 
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The only thing I kinda don't like is breakable weapons. Ok with swords and clubs I understand, they can break. But guns? Does our character grip them extra hard with some Potence applied, or hit everyone on the head with the butt of a rifle?)

Edit - quoted the wrong person.
I have a basic-bitch AR15 that I can clean, and then go pop off at least 500 rounds before carbon fouling would even be a thing to consider. It's a vidyagame mechanic that has no basis in reality.
 

angelic

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Surely being able to pick what your character represents is an integral part of any RPG? I mean in the original you could also pick your gender, so as far as I can tell the difference is the model and gender are independent?
The two genders have been selectable in games for 40 years, without the need to pander to made up words by mentally ill people.
 

Paracelsus

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The two genders have been selectable in games for 40 years, without the need to pander to made up words by mentally ill people.
I wouldn't go so far, but the point is, they are an extremely minute fraction of the world population, and like less than 1% of the gaming audience in proportion. If developers are willing to bend the gameplay and the writing to that minute fraction putting their pandering front and center, it's a very safe assumption to make they are far left extremists.

You choose to be outraged. It’s on you.

I’ll choose to enjoy this game I’ve been waiting years for. That’s on me.
By all means. Tools blindly support corporations out of sheer devotion as some act of grandstanding. This is no different than the current Star Wars trilogy: it was obvious by the trash writers it was going to be trash, and it was indeed trash. The writing is on the wall for this one, given their interviews, plus the recent past with the white wolf incident. No hope whatsoever.
 
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Chunk Loves Sloth

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I wouldn't go so far, but the point is, they are an extremely minute fraction of the world population, and like less than 1% of the gaming audience in proportion. If developers are willing to bend the gameplay and the writing to that minute fraction putting their pandering front and center, it's a very safe assumption to make they are far left extremists.
Any attempt at any sort of diversity is dogpiled.

Any attempt to include any political aspect is “shoved down our throats.”

Okay.

Edit:

There’s no winning for Devs. If they made a game that solely catered to sex crazed straight white males they would be getting backlash from everywhere else. There’s no right answer.
 
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angelic

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I wouldn't go so far, but the point is, they are an extremely minute fraction of the world population, and like less than 1% of the gaming audience in proportion. If developers are willing to bend the gameplay and the writing to that minute fraction putting their pandering front and center, it's a very safe assumption to make they are far left extremists.
Im not sure if you meant to quote me. I agree, vampire will be full of liberal propaganda, made up pronoun crap, attempts to win favour with the less than 1% of dimwits who identify as koalas and potted plants.

I noticed Sam Smith declared himself non binary this week, saying "I am neither male or female". Presumably he'll be handing back his best male artist awards.
 

Paracelsus

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Jun 24, 2007
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Any attempt at any sort of diversity is dogpiled.

Any attempt to include any political aspect is “shoved down our throats.”

Okay.

Edit:

There’s no winning for Devs. If they made a game that solely catered to sex crazed straight white males they would be getting backlash from everywhere else. There’s no right answer.
Kinda wrong perspective. Catering to radical fringe minorities doesn't just stop there, it also means you have to mary sue the shit out of them (and I've totally been sexist in this remark because they probably have an agender equivalent for mary sue which shows how complicated it is), the writing has to be pristine (see said minorities whining like 2 year olds at an xbox tweet calling black people "blacks") and of course by supporting them you also have to support the real life politics supporting them, therefore it snowballs into a DNC simulator.
 

Pimpbaa

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I have been wanting a sequel for so long. I hope Jeanette and VV are in this or at least some other highly sexualized female vampires.
 

DCDW

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I'm not a fan of SJW rhetoric, but I'm hard up for a Vampire the Masquerade game so I'm still down regardless.
 

hariseldon

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I disagree entirely with this. The world of V:TM is extremely sexualised, with seduction literally being a character trait, and a legitimate path through the first game. Offering players options in games, rather than forcing one perspective, is the correct way to do inclusiveness. Offering someone the option to swap gender pro-nouns to better enable their own personal investment in their sexualised fantasy role playing game is not "stupid as fuck". I think it's actually pretty cool.


Yeah I reinstalled it. It came out during a period where I wasn't doing as much gaming (too busy with drugs and women), so I reckon I'll probably run out alongside my current run through Kotor 2.
 

EDMIX

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When are we going to talk about the implications of this?


With gaming today, thats pretty normal. Consoles now are so powerful and sell so much, the cost of making a big AAA game just can't come without a PS and XB version. Also factor that with a PC exclusive AAA , the hardware needed would question its existence. ie how many own hardware that has specs past what XONE X or PS4 Pro is? So clearly very few, even more question able, is what developer is looking to make the least money making something with the least install base on top of a expensive development?

So the majority of PC gaming seems to be casual, so they build their PC's accordingly, which means its very, very, very hard and almost pointless to make a expensive, big AAA exclusive for PC. If they want to seek more units and cast a wider net, it makes sense to have it on those 3 platforms.
 

FireFly

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Aug 5, 2007
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The two genders have been selectable in games for 40 years, without the need to pander to made up words by mentally ill people.
I don't see why mentally ill people shouldn't be able to pick a character that represents them, in a game series that purposely explores questions of identity and mental health.

By all means. Tools blindly support corporations out of sheer devotion as some act of grandstanding. This is no different than the current Star Wars trilogy: it was obvious by the trash writers it was going to be trash, and it was indeed trash. The writing is on the wall for this one, given their interviews, plus the recent past with the white wolf incident. No hope whatsoever.
I think a good middle ground to blind support or blind opposition would be to wait until a title is released and then judge it on its own merits.
 
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I decided to go ahead and replay the original Bloodlines in preparation for 2, since there's no time like the present and it's been 9 years since I played it, which is personally a little surreal to think about, can't believe it's been that long already.

It's still a fun game, however the combat really is janktastic and certain aspects are pretty dated, the theme of the game done with modern tech and better combat has an insane amount of potential.
 

angelic

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I don't see why mentally ill people shouldn't be able to pick a character that represents them, in a game series that purposely explores questions of identity and mental health.


I think a good middle ground to blind support or blind opposition would be to wait until a title is released and then judge it on its own merits.
Firstly, I say "mentally ill" in the kindest way possible, not derisory. The fact is that a man who thinks he's a woman has a mental problem. Every cell in a male to female transitioner is male.

Secondly, there is harm in propagating stupid made up pronouns as Canada has. You don't think governments and corporations will abuse it when people "change" their official gender? Where's my pension gone, my social security? Well sorry ma'am, that all reset as the records show you have been on our system for 6 months, not 30 years..and so on. Normalising made up gender pronouns is dangerous and a bad precedent, in any setting.
 

Teslerum

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I have been wanting a sequel for so long. I hope Jeanette and VV are in this or at least some other highly sexualized female vampires.
Thats my fear. Mitsoda himself commented that they take a more *sensitive* approach to mental illness than in Bloodlines. And considering Tourette was the poster child of that in Bloodlines..... In the same sentence he also says that they don't *punch down* anymore, so if the subject is approached I fear it is with a lot less humor attached.
 
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FireFly

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Firstly, I say "mentally ill" in the kindest way possible, not derisory. The fact is that a man who thinks he's a woman has a mental problem. Every cell in a male to female transitioner is male.


Secondly, there is harm in propagating stupid made up pronouns as Canada has. You don't think governments and corporations will abuse it when people "change" their official gender? Where's my pension gone, my social security? Well sorry ma'am, that all reset as the records show you have been on our system for 6 months, not 30 years..and so on. Normalising made up gender pronouns is dangerous and a bad precedent, in any setting.
I think these are separate issues. Wanting to be addressed using a different pronoun is merely a symptom of the fact that someone is experiencing gender dysphoria. And gender dysphoria will exist whether we allow individuals to use different pronouns or not. So, at the governmental level it's a question of whether we permit individuals to change their gender and what conditions we impose on this. And currently where it is allowed, as far I am aware it doesn't "reset" their existing records.

But at the individual level, if we believe in free speech then we should allow people to call each other whatever they want. And if a group of people want to get together and want to create some crazy new pronouns we should allow that too.

And finally in an RPG, we have to decide what kinds of characters we want people to role play as. And if in society, there is a group of people that experiences gender dysphoria and gives themselves some new pronouns as a result, I don't see why we shouldn't be able to role play as a member of that group. Of course, you will say that if we in any way use the language of that group we "normalise" it. But surely all we are normalising is the designation they use to refer to themselves, in same way that me saying call me Bill rather than William, normalises the use of Bill as a shortened form of William.

This is in the context of a game series that already allows you to play as a character considered clinically insane, with dialogue to match, and as a "monster" that is forced to navigate via the sewers, or risk scaring everyone else away.
 
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Stuart360

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Sep 9, 2018
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Oh ffs. I have been waiting for a sequel for this for years and now we get one and its full of fucking SJW agenda shite. Just fucking do one will you.
 

GrayChild

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Nov 15, 2014
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I disagree entirely with this. The world of V:TM is extremely sexualised, with seduction literally being a character trait, and a legitimate path through the first game. Offering players options in games, rather than forcing one perspective, is the correct way to do inclusiveness. Offering someone the option to swap gender pro-nouns to better enable their own personal investment in their sexualised fantasy role playing game is not "stupid as fuck". I think it's actually pretty cool.
A game can be sexualised and giving freedom for any forms of relationships without the need to glorify a mental illness such as gender dysphoria. Just the way Bloodlines 1 was.
 

Acerac

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May 20, 2007
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No big deal, just a sequel to one of the best games ever made.
Fucking right?

I'll believe it when it is released and people I trust say it is good. Hype has burnt me too many times before but good gravy this is interesting.
A game can be sexualised and giving freedom for any forms of relationships without the need to glorify a mental illness such as gender dysphoria. Just the way Bloodlines 1 was.
Bloodlines 1 glorified plenty of mental illnesses!

*edit*

I wonder if the writers would have the balls to let the in game characters call out characters that refereed to themselves as women despite obviously having male models. That would make for some interesting gameplay interactions.
 
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SkinnerSw33t

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Firstly, I say "mentally ill" in the kindest way possible, not derisory. The fact is that a man who thinks he's a woman has a mental problem. Every cell in a male to female transitioner is male.

Secondly, there is harm in propagating stupid made up pronouns as Canada has. You don't think governments and corporations will abuse it when people "change" their official gender? Where's my pension gone, my social security? Well sorry ma'am, that all reset as the records show you have been on our system for 6 months, not 30 years..and so on. Normalising made up gender pronouns is dangerous and a bad precedent, in any setting.
It blows my mind the mods continue to let you post this shit. I think you are mentally ill, and I mean that in the kindest way possible.
 

Acerac

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It blows my mind the mods continue to let you post this shit. I think you are mentally ill, and I mean that in the kindest way possible.
Debate their point instead of attacking them as a person otherwise you are the one who comes off looking foolish.
 

Redneckerz

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Jun 25, 2018
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I disagree entirely with this. The world of V:TM is extremely sexualised, with seduction literally being a character trait, and a legitimate path through the first game. Offering players options in games, rather than forcing one perspective, is the correct way to do inclusiveness. Offering someone the option to swap gender pro-nouns to better enable their own personal investment in their sexualised fantasy role playing game is not "stupid as fuck". I think it's actually pretty cool.


To add on that:
It heavily depends on the relevance in a game. For instance, a title like Doom 2016 or PUBG suddenly going by with gender pronouns is strange because the world and the lore are not built around such concepts to begin with. In Vampire: The Masquerade, such a thing is relevant because its lore and its world are heavily based on political strongholds and sentiments.

So whenever someone goes ''Oh yuck, gender pronouns'' in this specific case, i have to assume they have little idea about the game itself. And yes that includes people in this very thread. I get its the hot thing to call everything that approaches the possibility of gender choice as a bad thing*, but usage of gender pronouns is not always a negative issue and depends on whether the game's world and lore allow such things to realistically take place. Since VTMBL is already heavily politicized, introducing gender pronouns is more logical and ''natural'' than a lot of other titles.

*Having one person around the team that has pushed for the SJW slot does not mean the entire game is affected. Its like saying because you think Daniel Vavra is a racist POS, Kingdom Come is a terrible game. That line of assuming ill is just bad in general imo.

Firstly, I say "mentally ill" in the kindest way possible, not derisory. The fact is that a man who thinks he's a woman has a mental problem. Every cell in a male to female transitioner is male.
Calling someone mentally ill can hardly be said in a kind way. Its just following the medical stance that considers people having this as people who need mental treatment.

I am sure a lot of people do need it, but lets not put everyone on one stack here, because not everyone needs it and are simply born in the wrong body.
 

Acerac

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I'm fairly confident if somebody is born in the wrong body that is a problem. A problem specifically with their mind, granted one where it is an incongruence with their body. Ergo, a mental problem. It ain't kind but that don't make it false.

But yeah gender pronouns would fit perfectly in the game... assuming that NPCs are going to respond based on what they see instead of what you say. That will be the determining factor here I feel.
 

ZehDon

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A game can be sexualised and giving freedom for any forms of relationships without the need to glorify a mental illness such as gender dysphoria. Just the way Bloodlines 1 was.
I’ll skip the bait and just ask: in a game famous for having an entire class based around a mental illness and glorifys it as silly and humourous, why is this hill the one you’ve chosen to die on?
 

Scopa

The Tribe Has Spoken
Oct 27, 2017
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I’ll skip the bait and just ask: in a game famous for having an entire class based around a mental illness and glorifys it as silly and humourous, why is this hill the one you’ve chosen to die on?
Did you take a wrong turn buddy?
 

SkinnerSw33t

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Debate their point instead of attacking them as a person otherwise you are the one who comes off looking foolish.
I'm not the one spewing hate rhetoric, and I give zero fucks if I look foolish to the failure to launch crowd.
 

Shai-Tan

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Mar 16, 2009
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It's funny to see complaints about "far left propaganda" when this forum is full of talking points you'd read on right wing news, almost like your objections are politically motivated. The headlines on "right wing backlash" against inclusion or whatever almost write themselves.
 
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It's funny to see complaints about "far left propaganda" when this forum is full of talking points you'd read on right wing news, almost like your objections are politically motivated. The headlines on "right wing backlash" against inclusion or whatever almost write themselves.
Most of the people criticizing progressive politics are liberals. How dare you label them as far right when all they want is some fucking sanity for their own party.
 

angelic

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I am sure a lot of people do need it, but lets not put everyone on one stack here, because not everyone needs it and are simply born in the wrong body.
The feeling of body dysmorphia, or as you say being born in the wrong body, is a mental condition. A difficult one, but 100% a mental condition. It is impossible to be born into the wrong body, it's only possible to feel as if you were.

I'm not the one spewing hate rhetoric, and I give zero fucks if I look foolish to the failure to launch crowd.
Ah the standard SJW tactic of stating the scientific fact that biology isnt malleable, is hate rhetoric. Also the 2nd standard SJW tactic of attacking people not positions, and trying to justify it with moral high ground.

Freedom of speech is simple, people are allowed to take hormones, refer to themselves as a gender their body is not, but they cannot forcibly compell others to do so.
 
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Shai-Tan

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Most of the people criticizing progressive politics are liberals. How dare you label them as far right when all they want is some fucking sanity for their own party.
That was the conceit of gamergate forums until they get colonized by reactionary conservatives. I see what (mostly center) leftists are saying elsewhere about "sjws" and it's not repeating talking points you would read on The Daily Wire
 
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That was the conceit of gamergate forums until they get colonized by reactionary conservatives. I see what (mostly center) leftists are saying elsewhere about "sjws" and it's not repeating talking points you would read on The Daily Wire
Your attempt to label people on your own side as enemies is just an attempt to avoid taking responsibility for your beliefs an actions. After all, why listen to the criticisms of your enemy? So drop the fucking labels and maybe come to the stark, painful realization that progressive politics is crazy, authoritarian, racist, sexist, and worst of all, ignorant. I say that as a liberal.
 

Fuz

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But at the individual level, if we believe in free speech then we should allow people to call each other whatever they want. And if a group of people want to get together and want to create some crazy new pronouns we should allow that too.
Yeah, but can't expect for everyone else to adhere to their own rules.

I mean, I'm always gonna call people with their pronoun of choice, but that's me doing you a courtesy, not something you should expect and demand or something to rage upon if for some reason I use what they consider to be the "wrong" pronoun.
Calling someone mentally ill can hardly be said in a kind way. Its just following the medical stance that considers people having this as people who need mental treatment.
I have an aquaintance who says that gender dysphoria IS a mental illness, and you treat it with transitioning. He's trans.
 
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Shai-Tan

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Ah the standard SJW tactic of stating the scientific fact that biology isnt malleable, is hate rhetoric. Also the 2nd standard SJW tactic of attacking people not positions, and trying to justify it with moral high ground.

Freedom of speech is simple, people are allowed to take hormones, refer to themselves as a gender their body is not, but they cannot forcibly compell others to do so.
There's a difference between sex and gender identity. What's at stake is whether people should be addressed by how they present socially. What some very small percentage of activists say about "trans women are women" like it was metaphysical or identities untethered by any social reality isn't what most people on the left think when they support accepting (some) pronouns.

There is pushback for obvious reasons considering some of this identity talk isn't on solid philosophical ground to merit social acceptance but pushback doesn't have to lean on essentialism that is itself the socially constructed product of conservative attitudes about gender roles that isn't all "in the biology". Similar arguments were made about gay people having a mental illness, about it being "unnatural", about it leading down a slippery slope towards acceptance of bestiality

My aunt who was a very butch looking lesbian, who always had male typical hobbies and interests, who became an alcoholic until she was 40 in part due to her difficulties with this transitioned from female to male (with the support of her wife) and I think it's a good thing that society (mostly) accepts it. Maybe if she was born decades later she would be considered nonbinary before she transitioned. Radical feminists would tend to think conservative attitudes about gender identity are the problem here, that she should have been happy being a butch woman but some people in here won't even accept that because they want to cast it all as "mental illness". Multiple disorders in the DSM are contrived to help people who are experiencing distress (with the criteria for diagnosis depending on it) not grounded in something particularly deep about biology but that doesn't stop lay people who know nothing about psychological science from using "mental illness" as a bludgeon like it was all grounded in brain dysfunction. Like sorry, the talking point Ben Shapiro likes to repeat isn't scientiic.

edit: and it should be pointed out most of this discussion is pointless considering a) we don't actually use pronouns that much in conversation; b) we already use and have used "they" inclusively when gender is indeterminate, including on the internet when you can't see whether your audience is male or female - using it for nonbinary people if they prefer it doesn't require much effort; c) of course zhir or ze is going to be contentious and probably won't catch on - did we even have a discussion about what pronouns are going to be in this game? d) some of the out there prounouns might actually make for interesting gameplay but I doubt they walk into that minefield
 
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Kadayi

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Oh yeah. If you already have a Paradox account or sign up then you can get some in-game doohickies by referring a friend and finding some little animated icons on the website dotted across various pages: -

https://www.bloodlines2.com/?ref=06565e014658

The standard blood packs are on the general pages, the rare one is on the pre-order page.

You'll deffo need to refer a friend to unlock the next stage, so I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to unlock more, though I presume they'll add more options down the road. :unsure:
 
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Redneckerz

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Jun 25, 2018
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The stillness of time.
The feeling of body dysmorphia, or as you say being born in the wrong body, is a mental condition. A difficult one, but 100% a mental condition. It is impossible to be born into the wrong body, it's only possible to feel as if you were.
Obmitting physical difficulities with the medical staff when a person has gender characteristics of both.

I don't think i have to explain how that comes across geniune trans people when said directly in person to them. That's not me denying the medical definition of it, its me adding empathic nuance to it. Some people will shrug it off, and other's like Fuz's acquaintance will share the same opinion.

I have an aquaintance who says that gender dysphoria IS a mental illness, and you treat it with transitioning. He's trans.
That's great. I hope he (assume he were a she prior?) is happy with where he is now.
 

Ailynn

Faith - Hope - Love
Jan 1, 2017
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I'm fairly confident if somebody is born in the wrong body that is a problem. A problem specifically with their mind, granted one where it is an incongruence with their body. Ergo, a mental problem. It ain't kind but that don't make it false.
It's disappointing to me that you would say this, as well as always speak so critically about transgender people in general. I'm sure you know people used to say the same things about people who are gay. Is being gay a mental illness? Of course there are those who are gay who suffer mental illness, but it is not inherently so.

Sometimes physical sexual difference occurs prenatally. This is something that happens in parts of the body we cannot see, such as the brain...as well as more visible parts of the body.


I know some of you still carry a bias or criticisms against transgender people, but it saddens me to see that. Please don't paint all of us with the same preconceptions.