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Ventura Beat: Nintendo Switch graphics are based on Nvidia's Maxwell Architecture

Rezbit said:
Damn, people thinking this is going to be Xbox One levels? That seems really unlikely. Honestly for me at least getting a fully portable Wii U would pretty awesome in itself (especially if it happened to hit the $199 mark). Expecting it to be a super-charged Wii U, anything more will be a good surprise.
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I really don't see how it's unlikely and how everyone should temper their expectations at such a low level.

We already know that it's going to be vastly more powerful than a Wii U. It's running games the Wii U could only dream of running (Dragon Quest XI or Dark Souls 3 for example). We know from multiple reliable sources that it can runs ports from pretty much every third party games without too many issues. Sure, these games will need to be downgraded, like Xbox/Gamecube games needed to be downgraded to run on PS2, but we're far from not having a powerful-enough console here.

That's not because there's a news, not even necessarily a bad one depending on factors we don't know yet, that we should all temper our expectations to unreasonable levels. Everyone was expecting slightly lowered Xbox One processing power, and that's likely what we will get at the end.
 
EDarkness said:
Heh, yeah. I think so, too. However, I don't think the difference between the Xbox One and the NS is all that huge. Which means the game should still run fine, even if it's not as beefy as this article makes it out to be.

Though, if we're doubting the power aspect of this article, then we should doubt everything else as well. Why people are accepting this as gospel is beyond me.
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I would doubt this article if Emily Rogers and ndrake didn't also confirm it's maxwell.

I still doubt this article, anything but the maxwell part.
 
Counting the number of times someone says "Damn, people expect this to run at --------- levels?" makes for a fun drinking game, and it helps make the strawman headache go away.
 
One of the things I hate about gaf is our tendency to make personal attacks on people who say or write things that are disagreeable, although maybe it is more of a gamer thing than a gaf thing. And things are actually tame here in comparison to other places.

Still, guys like Dean and Charlie are good peeps and I wish attacks were confined to what is written and not who they are. /RANT OVER
 
sphinx said:
one thing I am not sure how to ask is whether Switch will be able to run OG PS4/X1 games. I've tried and people have been kind and explained but answers always are like "yeah, but with major compromises"

to that, my question would be.

Is porting a PS4 game to Switch

A.- like porting the Gamecube's Resident Evil 4 to mid-2000's cel-phones (which happened)??

or

B.- is it like porting it to a PS2 (like, textures are lower res, less enemies but basically the same game)?

Tech-savy GAF, please choose A or B.or explain if none of the above apply.
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Think like a cross gen games, that's how it will be able to run PS4/X1 games.
The games will have all the same feature set because they are using a modern architecture (more modern than what's on PS4/X1 actually) it will just look/run worse.
 
Hermii said:
I would doubt this article if Emily Rogers and ndrake didn't also confirm it's maxwell.

I still doubt this article, anything but the maxwell part.
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I don't think it's something that we should be selectively picking the parts that align with our point of view. There have been lots of posts stating that this article is all over the place and the writer doesn't understand what's going on to make the conclusion they're making. So if that's the case, then we should throw the whole thing out and wait for a more informed analysis to be presented. Adjusting the article on the fly because people are picking apart the original text is something that makes the whole thing dubious at best.

Based on what we know, this idea that it's "based on Maxwell" doesn't mean anything without more information.

LeleSocho said:
Think like a cross gen games, that's how it will be able to run PS4/X1 games.
The games will have all the same feature set because they are using a modern architecture (more modern than what's on PS4/X1 actually) it will just look/run worse.
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Well, I think looking worse is a good possibility (though probably not by much). Running worse depends on the port. Looking at the Digital Foundry review of Battlefield 1, they state that the PS4 has better IQ, but the Xbox One version generally performs better. So this can also be true of a potential NS version. It all comes down to how they do the port and where they put their priorities.
 
georaldc said:
Are performance increases becoming less prominent with each new Nintendo hardware release? Which one of the following has the biggest gap in performance?

Xbox -> Gamecube/Wii (gamecube felt like a really strong console after playing games like the RE titles and the Rogue Leader games. Wii just felt like a sidegrade with a different control scheme)

Xbox 360 -> Wii U (never owned a wii u, but I always felt like they were pretty much equal in capability, despite releasing several years after the 360)

Switch -> Xbox One (might be weaker(?) despite releasing a couple of years after the Xbox)
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There is a few major differences with the switch and Wii / Wii U hardware wise.

1.Switch is also a portable.

2. Switch is starting from a clean slate hardware wise, much like the GameCube. There is no native bc with any previous Nintendo system, meaning the engineers had a lot more freedom when putting together the hardware.
 
Judging by this thread it seems like people were waiting for some bad Switch news to jump at since its been only good news lately.

The funny thing is this rumor isn't bad news necessarily which makes it all more funny. GAF loves overreacting lmao.
 
QaaQer said:
One of the things I hate about gaf is our tendency to make personal attacks on people who say or write things that are disagreeable, although maybe it is more of a gamer thing than a gaf thing. And things are actually tame here in comparison to other places.

Still, guys like Dean and Charlie are good peeps and I wish attacks were confined to what is written and not who they are. /RANT OVER
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The way the article was written and then edited, likely from notes straight off gaf, without being noted, shows the writers had no respect for the readers.
 
dark10x said:
I think you're looking at this wrong.

What would it take to reach decent battery life on this hardware? Think about that. It's still possible.
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Down-clocking and decrease performance I'm guessing?

Has there been any word on whether ninty will allow games that can only be played in docked mode?
 
It's a custom chip, so while it's "based on" Maxwell it doesn't mean it's pure Maxwell.

I'd expect it's somewhere in-between, like a half-step between Maxwell and Pascal.
 
Sky Walker said:
The negative overreaction posts on this thread though. Based on their posts : the Switch is gonna be a WiiU 1.7 Portable lol.
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The funny thing is that if this system wasn't being marketed as a hybrid, even something just as powerful as a Wii U for a 3DS replacement would be seen as mindblowing.

I know this is at the very least slightly stronger than Wii U so my brain is gonna a'splode for sure.
 
One of the many things that excites me about the Switch is that it's pretty much a given that Nintendo is going to be doing what Sony and Microsoft have already started doing - namely, releasing more powerful versions of their systems over time.

I think Nintendo has a 10+ year plan with Nvidia. Sure, the Switch released in March may not be featuring Pascal, and may only have a 720p display (which I personally think is more than sufficient for now, especially if it helps keep the price <$250), but in 2018 I could easily seen Nintendo releasing a "Switch Pro" or "Switch Plus" which has a 1080p display, and packs A73 cores and NVIDIA's Volta GPU architecture on the 10nm node. It would have a longer battery life while being able to run games with added graphical enhancements.
 
LordKano said:
Why ? How would you come to such a conclusion ?
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Simple. Dated tech costs less. When all of your competitors have more powerful options at or below $300 you can't expect people to pay the same for something less capable. I mean, I guess the 720p screen will incur some extra costs but Switch will surely be DOA at $300. It's like you don't remember how awful the underpowered Wii U sold.
 
IvorB said:
Uh... is anyone really expecting cutting-edge tech or even current tech from Nintendo?
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It is cutting edge, for a handheld. Most people (like me) expected that Nintendo would go with a Vita + hardware spec a year ago since they went with a snes + with GBA, N64 with DS and GC with 3DS
 
theangrypirate said:
Simple. Dated tech costs less. When all of your competitors have more powerful options at or below $300 you can't expect people to pay the same for something less capable. I mean, I guess the 720p screen will incur some extra costs but Switch will surely be DOA at $300. It's like you don't remember how awful the underpowered Wii U sold.
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It's not more dated than the Pascal, this thing doesn't even has a date, it's a custom chip with a custom architecture. It's just different.
 
Mr Swine said:
It is cutting edge, for a handheld. Most people (like me) expected that Nintendo would go with a Vita + hardware spec a year ago since they went with a snes + with GBA, N64 with DS and GC with 3DS
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Unfortunately there aren't that many of you with this expectation. The same people that didn't buy a Wii U due to its lack of horsepower won't be buying the Switch for the same reason. If that holds true and it sells similar to the Wii U then thrid parties won't release games on it and it will be Wii U 2.
 
theangrypirate said:
Unfortunately there aren't that many of you with this expectation. The same people that didn't buy a Wii U due to its lack of horsepower won't be buying the Switch for the same reason. If that holds true and it sells similar to the Wii U then thrid parties won't release games on it and it will be Wii U 2.
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Good thing this thing will also cater to the massive pool of 3DS/Handheld only users out there.
 
LordKano said:
It's not more dated than the Pascal, this thing doesn't even has a date, it's a custom chip with a custom architecture. It's just different.
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Thread title: "Ventura Beat: Nintendo Switch graphics are based on Nvidia's Maxwell Architecture"

Maxwell is dated tech. Not sure how this is confusing?
 
Alistair Roo said:
Good thing this thing will also cater to the massive pool of 3DS/Handheld only users out there.
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Is that massive pool of handheld users willing to drop $300 on a handheld? Thats why my first post about his stated I hope this launches with a sub $250 price tag. Otherwise I fear it will sell like Wii U.
 
theangrypirate said:
Simple. Dated tech costs less. When all of your competitors have more powerful options at or below $300 you can't expect people to pay the same for something less capable. I mean, I guess the 720p screen will incur some extra costs but Switch will surely be DOA at $300. It's like you don't remember how awful the underpowered Wii U sold.
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A ps4 is more powerful than an iPhone 7, that doesn't mean the iPhone should be cheaper. Its just ignorant to base value on clockspeed of chips alone.

Edit: tis discussion isn't even about clockspeed which we still don't know. Just chip architecture which is an even more nebulous thig to try to understand, which its clear many people on gaf don't (understandably)
And the Wii U had a much larger issue at launch than its price. It was a marketing message fiasco.
 
LordKano said:
It's not more dated than the Pascal, this thing doesn't even has a date, it's a custom chip with a custom architecture. It's just different.
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Custom chip or not, (if this rumor is true) it's being run on an older process that chip fabricators have had more time perfecting. This should mean higher chip yields, and thus lower overall pricing for each Switch SoC.
 
theangrypirate said:
Thread title: "Ventura Beat: Nintendo Switch graphics are based on Nvidia's Maxwell Architecture"

Maxwell is dated tech. Not sure how this is confusing?
Click to expand...

Maxwell is an architecture. It can evolve, I'm not the most tech-savvy people here but many here already posted how Maxwell at 28nm, 20nm and potential 16nm changes a lot of things, and is comparable to Pascal on the last case.
The thing is, we don't know what exactly it is.

But there's another problem in your very first post : why would an unannounced price based on the final hardware, which this news is trying to explain, change with this news ? It's 250$ for the final hardware, which we don't know what's inside.
 
theangrypirate said:
Thread title: "Ventura Beat: Nintendo Switch graphics are based on Nvidia's Maxwell Architecture"

Maxwell is dated tech. Not sure how this is confusing?
Click to expand...

Its like you didn't read the thread. Pascal and Maxwell are nearly identical in every way that maters except die size. Nintendo isn't using stock Maxwell X1s from 2 years ago here.

The PS4 and XBO launch with fucking jaguar cores. Consoles never launch with the shiniest thing
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
A ps4 is more powerful than an iPhone 7, that doesn't mean the iPhone should be cheaper. Its just ignorant to base value on clockspeed of chips alone.

And the Wii U had a much larger issue at launch than its price. It was a marketing message fiasco.
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iPhone 7 is not a game console why would you make that comparison? It's certainly ok to compare game consoles to eachother based on price. When someone is choosing whether or not to buy 2 consoles at the same price the will likely want to know what kind of performance they are getting. If Switch launches at the same price as a PS4 its going to be hard to convince those people that are buying it as a home console to take the Switch over the PS4 because of performance. Obviously those wanting a handheld will be easier to convince.
 
LordKano said:
Maxwell is an architecture. It can evolve, I'm not the most tech-savvy people here but many here already posted how Maxwell at 28nm, 20nm and potential 16nm changes a lot of things, and is comparable to Pascal on the last case.
The thing is, we don't know what exactly it is.

But there's another problem in your very first post : why would an unannounced price based on the final hardware, which this news is trying to explain, change with this news ? It's 250$ for the final hardware, which we don't know what's inside.
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Nobody knows what the price will be, I simply postulated it would have a hard time selling at $300 based on the reported performance of it being less capable than XB1. I think it has a good chance of selling well at $250 or less.

Gamer @ Heart said:
Its like you didn't read the thread. Pascal and Maxwell are nearly identical in every way that maters except die size. Nintendo isn't using stock Maxwell X1s from 2 years ago here.

The PS4 and XBO launch with fucking jaguar cores. Consoles never launch with the shiniest thing
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Regardless of the circuitry, the performance is being reported as less capable of XB1. I think it will be hard to sell at $300 at launch, based on reported performance and the capabilities of its competitors. Look at the Wii U as an example. The difference here is the Switch portability. I don't think handheld gamers want to spend $300 on a handheld though.

My posts are about price for performance, nothing more. I'm not trying to shit on the Switch. I'm just speculating about what the price should be.
 
theangrypirate said:
iPhone 7 is not a game console why would you make that comparison? It's certainly ok to compare game consoles to eachother based on price. When someone is choosing whether or not to buy 2 consoles at the same price the will likely want to know what kind of performance they are getting. If Switch launches at the same price as a PS4 its going to be hard to convince those people that are buying it as a home console to take the Switch over the PS4 because of performance. Obviously those wanting a handheld will be easier to convince.
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I think we severely overestimate these consumers who do research into the power levels of the hardware they want. The amount of people who know or bothered to find out that latest multiplatform game runs at 180p less on xbox one and thus settled on the ps4 version are infinitesimal.

What matters are the games themselves and the messaging of making those games look fun enough to tip the value proposition of new hardware.

I also don't think it should be $300, but I don't know the logistic of how much that hardware, dock, and controllers all comes out to be. There is so much more than performance to factor in. Then again, they could throw a free game in there to heighten the value and ease the higher price if they do go that route. Especially since Nintendo isn't in the business to loose money on hardware when avoidable
 
theangrypirate said:
iPhone 7 is not a game console why would you make that comparison? It's certainly ok to compare game consoles to eachother based on price. When someone is choosing whether or not to buy 2 consoles at the same price the will likely want to know what kind of performance they are getting. If Switch launches at the same price as a PS4 its going to be hard to convince those people that are buying it as a home console to take the Switch over the PS4 because of performance. Obviously those wanting a handheld will be easier to convince.
Click to expand...

I would say not only those who only want a handheld, but also those can see added value in the handheld aspect combined with a home console. You see here on GAF quite often that people look at the Switch in very a binary way: they deride it for being a weak console, or they praise it for being a powerful handheld (or bash it for its alleged battery life and its size). Those people often discount the idea that someone might appreciate both sides, and is willing to take a hit on one or even both sides for that combination.
 
QaaQer said:
Agreed.

It is too bad that apparently N is going to market it as a home console that happens to have some on-the-go stuff as a value added bonus. Marketing will be messy: a new console with less than half the power of the competition, fewer games, and the same price.

It would make more sense if they positioned it as a portable with the home part being the value add, because that is what it looks to be. 50 times (or whatever) more powerful than the 3DS! 10 times (or whatever) more powerful than the Vita! 3 times (or whatever) more powerful than iPad pro! Now there is some marketing that will get people excited.
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Less than half? Its running dark souls 3 lol
 
Personally, I think that if the Switch isn't powerful enough to run an emulator for PS4 Pro while in handheld mode, there's no way it's getting even a single third party game.
 
Just out of curiosity I've barely been able to follow this news today. Have we reached a consensus? Are we awaiting other sources, or do we think this news is probably correct?
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Just out of curiosity I've barely been able to follow this news today. Have we reached a consensus? Are we awaiting other sources, or do we think this news is probably correct?
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Natedrake went to ask his sources, but we don't have any confirmation. The absolute mess that the article was does not inspire confidence in the rumours either: I fear, seeing as he doesn't understand the technical stuff, the author may have mistaken info about the dev kits as being definitively representative for the final product.
 
Maxrunner said:
Less than half? Its running dark souls 3 lol
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.....and? Dark Souls 3 is probably running on the same engine (or very similar) as Dark Souls 2 with upgrades. It of course made no sense to release DS3 on last gen consoles this far into the next generation. But with the portable mode of the Switch only being MAAAYBE double that of the last gen consoles, it doesn't seem like an insurmountable obstacle porting the game over. It will probably run at a shit resolution with bad framerate....but that's all part of the genuine Souls experience!

This Maxwell news, if true, shouldn't be all that discouraging unless you are the sort of person that was expecting the Switch to be your main and only machine, and you're interested in games made outside of Japan.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Just out of curiosity I've barely been able to follow this news today. Have we reached a consensus? Are we awaiting other sources, or do we think this news is probably correct?
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I think general consensus is that the article is bad, but likely overall accurate in terms of Maxwell going by other sources who are confirming it at least in regards to the dev kits. But that's secondary to the real important factor that is the size of the thing, is it 20nm or 16nm. That's what really matters.

Some have stated that Maxwell at 16nm is equal if not better than Pascal at that size due to better/more FP16 capabilities which the Switch might leverage. Overall seems like a whole lot noise that is just muddying the waters a lot.
 
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