Came to post this.
We're still going to get movies about the same characters every year.
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Verge: "Everything you know about Marvel Comics is about to change"
- Thread starter northead
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Came to post this.
We're still going to get movies about the same characters every year.
Palette Swap
Member
I believe him when he says anyone should be fine picking up the main series, and maybe the FCBD issue.
For further reading, Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers should be fine. There are flowcharts floating around but except for Infinity, you don't really need them.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Opinionatedfish
Member
All of the dreams that we dare to dream will come true!
styl3s
Member
Especially now that comics are hot as shit.
The amount of new comic fans that i see in the 2 shops near me always amazes me and it makes me happy to see more people embracing the medium. Even as someone who has been reading comics for 25 years i don't understand all the Marvel continuity because it's ridiculous.
darkhunger
Member
That's not even true. Printed comic sales are the highest they've been in years, and thus far this year the industry is experiencing 10% more sales YOY. And that's not including digital sales which is increasingly popular with younger demographics.
This is more of an attempt to get rid of some deadweight in continuity and reinvigorate the line like DC did with New 52, without killing off some of their existing golden gooses by changing things too much.
With Miles Morales being front and center in the aftermath of Secret Wars, you might end up caring...
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Everything I know about the Marvel universe changes every couple of years when they reboot everything, including their last reboot.
This is why I rarely even try to follow the storylines long term - every character has a very defined beginning of their story but almost none of them have an end. Once the writing gets too convoluted, they just reboot and do the beginning part again.
This is why I rarely even try to follow the storylines long term - every character has a very defined beginning of their story but almost none of them have an end. Once the writing gets too convoluted, they just reboot and do the beginning part again.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Well isn't that the point of reboots?
Manmademan
Member
Marvel has never had a reboot, and from the looks of things Secret Wars isn't one either. They're not throwing out established continuity and have said so repeatedly.
darkhunger
Member
You're thinking of DC... Marvel hasn't done any mass line-wide changes to status quo, ever. Even when they do "reboots" its localized, like with Spider-Man in One More Day.
pete still exists past secret wars. this we know, so he has nothing to worry about
Tyrant Rave
Banned
This does happen even within Marvel and DC. Superior Foes of Spider-Man only had 15 issues (+2 filler issues that could be skipped) and it was completely self-contained and could be enjoyed without any exposure to other Marvel titles. It has a clear beginning, middle, and end and does not tie into any other books or events. Same goes for Hawkeye. They aren't as common as something like Amazing Spider-Man, which will go on forever, but it does happen.
Marvel Now wasn't a reboot. It just served as a brand new starting point to introduce new readers to their franchises. You could pick up pretty much anything at issue number 1 and enjoy. They seem to be straying away from large issue numbers as a whole and moving more towards relaunches once a big change happens or something. The current Daredevil volume, for example, is a direct continuation of the last one but I'm sure you could pick it up at issue #1 without any confusion. Same with Thor, Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man, etc.
Marvel has yet to do a company-wide reboot.
darkhunger
Member
That too was restricted to the Avengers and Fantastic Four only.
We don't actually know that... Unless I missed an interview somewhere. But I think we can rest assure that's the case. Whether he's Spider-Man or not, that's the question.
Palette Swap
Member
That's probably the closest they got to. I'm not certain it was meant to stay though, even at the time it seemed unclear to me.
no. we actually do. theres a comic that was released that takes place after secret wars that he participates in
Duane Cunningham
Member
Nah, during Heroes Reborn, the main Marvel Universe continued as usual sans Cap, Iron Man, Thor and the FF. It was kind of a reboot for them, since they were in a "pocket universe" but the whole thing was planned as a one year story line to begin with.
Jim Lee claimed after the fact that they had offered to extend one of the books if he'd stay on and draw it, but he declined.
Manmademan
Member
nope. FF and certain avengers titles (Cap) weren't selling, so they moved those characters to another earth and off of 616.
They still existed in mainstream continuity, but were just considered "dead" to most people.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I was mostly referring to individual series sales. Sales only ever go down over time with few rare exceptions.
In this case, I think you're right and it's to cut out underperforming or otherwise ununsable properties more than anything else, but sales are always a persistent issue.
To me, reboot and rebrand are part of the same strategy, so I just kind of consider them the same thing. But yeah, it's not really a reboot in the sense of retconning and removing backstory, though some series started off at a new status quo (Superior Spider-Man, Avengers, New Avengers).
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Can we stop pretending that Miles and Evil Reed coming to 616 is a) a surprise and b) a big deal?
You almost had me there.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
The only thing that would shock me is if they ended all the current books and come up with brand new stories, characters and IP's.
The day i found out that my favorite comics began in the 1960's and that they had no end I stopped buying them. Basically they are printed soap operas.
The day i found out that my favorite comics began in the 1960's and that they had no end I stopped buying them. Basically they are printed soap operas.
Manmademan
Member
it definitely wasn't. the Marvel Now titles were direct continuations of stories, characters, and continuity that came previously. the only change was a #1 on the cover and a red logo. Literally nothing else changed.
a reboot (as DC did with Crisis and New 52, or say the spider man movies after 3) completely disregards established history, characters, and storylines and starts from scratch. Marvel has NEVER done this, and it certainly wasn't what they did with Marvel Now. What Marvel DID do was begin telling stories in shorter arcs that were designed to end in 20 or 30 issues that were more approachable for new readers. Instead of picking up Amazing Spider Man #701-733 to find out about the SpOck business, Readers only needed to grab "superior spider man 1-30something".
Unspeakable Evil
Member
It's not considering 616 might not exist anymore.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's like the same thing though.
Besides, it doesn't change the fact that there's no coherent beginning middle and end of the story for practically any well-known Marvel character. They're all invincible and nothing really sticks in the long term.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
They really don't want to say it's a reboot to avoid comparing themselves to DC, or betraying what they always said about Marvel being a single contiguous universe.
But honestly, I suspect this is in response to the popularity of the Marvel film and TV brand. Those formats are clean slates, starting with a fresh version of the Marvel canon and simplifying it a bit to make it digestible. But the comics are still a mess with so much cruft left over from the 90s and endless mini-crisis crossover events. That remix and rebrand characters arbitrarily for marketing purposes.
But honestly, I suspect this is in response to the popularity of the Marvel film and TV brand. Those formats are clean slates, starting with a fresh version of the Marvel canon and simplifying it a bit to make it digestible. But the comics are still a mess with so much cruft left over from the 90s and endless mini-crisis crossover events. That remix and rebrand characters arbitrarily for marketing purposes.
Manmademan
Member
My Avatar would like a word with you.
possibly, but remember two things:
1.) Marvel already tried to launch a "new" imprint that simplified canon with the Ultimate universe. what they found was that this approach solved nothing- the "new" universe quickly became just as bogged down in nonsense continuity as the old one, if not moreso. The benefits are fleeting at best.
2.) Marvel has also tried aligning their print titles to appeal to the popularity of the movie version already- the most obvious example of this was Spider Man after the success of raimi's film. What they FOUND though (and also with Xmen) is that there is very, very little crossover between film and print audiences, no matter how popular the films are, and any gains tend to be quite temporary. This is why Peter Parker no longer has organic web shooters and went back to basics.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
The closest they ever came to a full reboot before was Heroes Reborn, and 1) they didn't reboot X-Men and Spider-Man because they were still selling and 2) they aborted it within a year because apparently they didn't realize giving Rob Liefeld the keys to their kingdom was a bad idea.
maquiladora
Member
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'm not sure why you highlighted that because it's not really disputing anything you're saying.
I'm not saying they're the same thing. I'm saying I consider them to have similar motivations behind them and I rarely make a distinction, though that's just me being facetious.
It's not a reboot. Kelly Sue DeConnick basically spilled the beans that Marvel was being coy about the whole thing as a marketing ploy.
If that wasn't enough, Rage of Ultron exists.
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
I read watchmen. I'm a comic expert.
Manmademan
Member
I may have interpreted you incorrectly then. when you said you considered a reboot and a rebrand to be "the same thing" and have similar motivations, I disagreed.
To put it another way, the motivation behind a reboot (as DC did) was "our existing continuity is a negative, and we need to get rid of it to appeal to new readers."
the motivation behind the Marvel Now rebrand was "our existing continuity is an asset, how can we repackage it to make it more approachable."
Manmademan
Member
this does not happen very often, and marvel has altered the state of their universe substantially in the run up to the event. it's the most significant thing they've done in their history to their existing IP.
It is, and it doesn't.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
You caught me. Though my point stands and Non-Shonen stuff is fairly short. Exceptions do exist like Berserk
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, it's major, like every large event is. Marvel are into status quo changes, but not reboots. Every few years, they proclaim a new jumping point, start new stories in a new paradigm, get all the toys out of the chest, tell whatever they want to tell and move on to the next cycle.
Meanwhile, everything that has happened before remains, it's not unwritten and that's that.
I'm pretty sure if you look for articles about Civil War, Dark Reign, Heroic Age, Fear Itself, Marvel Now or Original Sin, you'll find the same kind of terms used.
It's the comics equivalent of Activision saying this year's CoD will change online FPSes forever. Of course it will.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Shit, even Berserk is building towards something. I don't care how long a story is a long as I know that it will end with some sort of resolution. What's the point of reading X-men or Spiderman when you know it will never end? There's no continuity, it just feels so pointless.
If there's one thing you can't say about cape books...
Manmademan
Member
I get what you're saying, but secret wars and the run up to it has changed the structure of the MU in a way that none of the other "events" you've listed came close to. (and marvel now is not an "event", just branding).
The entire multiverse concept? gone. The cosmic tier of gods and abstracts? over with. how time and time travel work in the MU? scrapped and rewritten. It's a MASSIVE housecleaning, and this is just the prologue.
and the event hasn't even started yet.
U n i o n 0015
Member
Whaaa? Didn't they refresh the whole comics line with Annihilation? Yeah that was a decade ago but it's still fresh...
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Yes you can!
The whole purpose of Crisis on infinite Earths was to fix all the continuity errors.
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