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[TheGreyHulk]

yes they asked for 2.5 flops.

that's HD 7800/8800 territory which is rumored to be in the 720.

Next Gen is going to be awesome

 

[Angelus Errare]

It's overall bandwidth that matters, which can be accomplished either through speed or sheer number.

Memory bandwidth is almost totally dictated by bit bus, memory type and clock frequency and has little to do with size. 128GB of DDR2 won't magically give you the bandwidth of say 16GB of GDDR5 just because the former is much larger.

 

[yon61]

People expecting flops > 1.9 are going to be terribly disappointed.

So we should expect nothing more than 1.9 flops? :-(

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I would listen to Crytek before any first party, because it was blatantly obvious this gen how the current gen consoles were not powerful enough to run CryEngine 3 as intended without compromise. IMO

First Party devs just build engines around the strengths and weaknesses of a console.

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

 

[thuway]

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

Best post.

 

[Reiko]

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

If you can run CryEngine3 better than expected... Your console is pretty damn powerful.

And let's be brutally honest. Which engine made the PS3 choke?

CryEngine3 or PD's Gran Turismo engine.

 

[XtremeXpider]

that's HD 7800/8800 territory which is rumored to be in the 720.

Next Gen is going to be awesome

"People expecting flops > 1.9 are going to be terribly disappointed."

 

[onQ123]

Wait, this cannot be true. No way is it going to be less powerful than CELL and only 100 GFLOPS?

GPGPU


GPGPU Computing & why you should be more excited about Kinect 2 & the Next PS-Eye.,

could Next Gen see 1 of the biggest improvements between console gens do to GPGPUs?

 

[Angelus Errare]

Unfortunately I don't see Cryengine 3 getting much use from third party developers this coming generation.

 

[Captain Pants]

I'd be surprised if I understand even half of what is discussed in this thread, but I still get so excited when I read it. I love the hype and hope that comes with a new console launch.

 

[Gorillaz]

So how long will it take for both consoles to get to "agni's philosophy" in graphics,etc?

 

[RoboPlato]

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

Giving the specs Crytek wants would cause Sony to go bankrupt. Any console with 16Gb of RAM and 4x 670s would burn down your house. I love Crytek but they need to learn to work with hardware that's currently on the market and feasible.

 

[AgentChris]

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

What he says goes.

 

[Router]

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

Plus, by now Sony are used to pissing off 3rd party developers.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

"People expecting flops > 1.9 are going to be terribly disappointed."

I'll believe it when u see it. I believe MS will come correct. They are always willing to spend on hardware.

Sony, I'm not sure. They're in financial trouble.

 

[patsu]

Why would Sony listen to Crytek over there own devs they trying to sell a engine that might not even be used that much .
Now maybe if you said Epic but still Sony first parties are the ones we are going to get many games from i rather Sony listen to them .
Plus unlike this gen Sony not going with some new tech like Cell so multi platform games should be even .

For eg if PD said the want faster ram but Crytek said the want more (even if it slower ) Sony should listen to PD.

Yeah, the big third party studios, first parties, Gaikai folks, ...

Btw I was away a long time. Did Wonderbook tank over the holiday season ?

 

[Reiko]

Giving the specs Crytek wants would cause Sony to go bankrupt. Any console with 16Gb of RAM and 4x 670s would burn down your house. I love Crytek but they need to learn to work with hardware that's currently on the market and feasible.

Gran Turismo 5 looked fantastic. But CryEngine3 was the only engine to truly test the current generation consoles, and they failed the test.

After all that hype of next generation console power, that engine was the blatant reality for us all.

Crytek even had to turn off realtime GI for Crysis 2 on consoles...:/

 

[Darkkn]

So are SSD drives out of the question for next-gen? A small SSD would do wonders for OS/app load times and some of it could be used as a fast cache for game data.

I guess it would be too expensive

 

[Graphics Horse]

Gran Turismo 5 looked fantastic. But CryEngine3 was the only engine to truly test the current generation consoles, and they failed the test.

After all that hype of next generation console power, that engine was the blatant reality for us all.

Crytek even had to turn off realtime GI for Crysis 2 on consoles...:/

I'm curious how Crysis 2 runs on a 2005 era PC.

They want lots of RAM, that's , because they want to lots of things in memory at more detail than they were doing in other CryEngine 3 games. But the engine itself would run fine with 4GB available, you can always ask for it to do more.

 

[Durante]

And I'm not sure why they are making things this way in the first place to be honest.

Because it's cheaper to build, and will get even cheaper over time. I think both want to make a profit from the start this time around.

Which makes things easier for Valve.

 

[Karak]

So are SSD drives out of the question for next-gen? A small SSD would do wonders for OS/app load times and some of it could be used as a fast cache for game data.

I guess it would be too expensive

Right now they are CHEAPER than they used to be. But the amount of storage gain for things like living room use versus an SSD almost guarantees normal drives.

 

[tapedeck]

So are SSD drives out of the question for next-gen? A small SSD would do wonders for OS/app load times and some of it could be used as a fast cache for game data.

I guess it would be too expensive

I was thinking about this as well, I dont think its that unrealistic to expect maybe a 128GB SSD in the PS4. Im basing this completely on wishful thinking mind you.

Edit: Im assuming the prices will drop dramatically by the end of the year also.

Edit 2: After looking at current prices...yeah maybe not lol.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

If you can run CryEngine3 better than expected... Your console is pretty damn powerful.

And let's be brutally honest. Which engine made the PS3 choke?

CryEngine3 or PD's Gran Turismo engine.

If PD wanted i sure they could make the PS3 choke we already hear them say they could not do certain things because of lack of ram .
They try to do to much stuff with PS3 which why effects like the rain sucks .
They also try to do all of this @ 1080p ( not full since it's 1280x1080 ) @ 60fps.

Plus no engine is best at every type of game but Sony first party make all different types so they could get a idea what to do with system specs.

Giving the specs Crytek wants would cause Sony to go bankrupt. Any console with 16Gb of RAM and 4x 670s would burn down your house. I love Crytek but they need to learn to work with hardware that's currently on the market and feasible.

Yep this is a problem with Crytek i sure every dev would love crazy specs but these companies would bankrupt if they listen to Crytek .
They want specs that just not possible on certain budget and consoles size.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If PD wanted i sure they could make the PS3 choke we already hear them say they could not do certain things because of lack of ram .

They already made it choke with all the particle effects that they were trying to get the console to throw around.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I was thinking about this as well, I dont think its that unrealistic to expect maybe a 128GB SSD in the PS4. Im basing this completely on wishful thinking mind you.

Edit: Im assuming the prices will drop dramatically by the end of the year also.

Doubt it would happen without a larger capacity HDD alternative, unless they're going the external storage route.

 

[phosphor112]

Saw a random comment below that VGleaks article:

Q4 2014? No.

If it was Q4 2014 it would likely have 2.5D. That's a whole year after the Xbox is supposed to come out.

 

[tapedeck]

Doubt it would happen without a larger capacity HDD alternative, unless they're going the external storage route.

Yeah on second thought I agree, and Im not sure the average consumer knows/cares about what an SSD would offer and would just see the smaller storage space. Especially if the 720 has the rumored 640GB.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Because it's cheaper to build, and will get even cheaper over time. I think both want to make a profit from the start this time around.

Which makes things easier for Valve.

Truth is i don't mine these specs if next gen is 5 years long .
I know some people think that next gen going to last as long as this one but i feel it going to be shorter .
This gen lasting so long was a mistake and i think most companies can see that .

Systems that make profit early or day 1 and after 5 years do all over until hardware no longer need .

 

[Angelus Errare]

Yeah on second thought I agree, and Im not sure the average consumer knows/cares about what an SSD would offer and would just see the smaller storage space. Especially if the 720 has the rumored 640GB.

Well one good thing about SSD vs HDD is price scaling. HDDs costs are mostly fixed only thing changing is the capacity. SSD prices can actually lower over time.

 

[Gorillaz]

Q4 2014? No.

If it was Q4 2014 it would likely have 2.5D. That's a whole year after the Xbox is supposed to come out.

They also don't have the luxury to launch 2014 let alone Q4 if/when MS launches this year.

 

[Karak]

Yeah on second thought I agree, and Im not sure the average consumer knows/cares about what an SSD would offer and would just see the smaller storage space. Especially if the 720 has the rumored 640GB.

A couple of people on another forum where discussing hybrid drives. But I think even they are too expensive and though they would surely offer some kind of benefit I think we can count on normal drives. Especially due to all the media features these things will have.

 

[tapedeck]

Well one good thing about SSD vs HDD is price scaling. HDDs costs are mostly fixed only thing changing is the capacity. SSD prices can actually lower over time.

Yeah, I had my hopes up that by the fall or so they would be cheap enough to put a decent sized SSD in. But when I looked it up the cheapest I could find for a 128GB was just under $100. I know Sony/MS would get them cheaper than that but still those prices would have to drop pretty quick for consoles maybe being manufactured this fall...

A couple of people on another forum where discussing hybrid drives. But I think even they are too expensive and though they would surely offer some kind of benefit I think we can count on normal drives. Especially due to all the media features these things will have.

Yeah, and correct me if Im wrong but I dont think they can change the SKU later in the console lifespan to include an SSD/Hybrid cause it essentially changes system performance.

Edit:

If they offer the ability to use any SSD as a replacement for whatever you have or an addon...its pretty bank though.

Ahh ok, I am wrong about being able to do that then.

 

[Karak]

Yeah, I had my hopes up that by the fall or so they would be cheap enough to put a decent sized SSD in. But when I looked it up the cheapest I could find for a 128GB was just under $100. I know Sony/MS would get them cheaper than that but still those prices would have to drop pretty quick for consoles maybe being manufactured this fall...

If they offer the ability to use any SSD as a replacement for whatever you have or an addon...its pretty bank though.

 

[Graphics Horse]

A couple of people on another forum where discussing hybrid drives. But I think even they are too expensive and though they would surely offer some kind of benefit I think we can count on normal drives. Especially due to all the media features these things will have.

You could stick in a 16gb flash chip (like one of the PS4 rumours) seperate to the HDD. Just arrange it so it can be used to cache the HDD or BRD or whatever you want. That's easy for me to say I don't design these things or know what I'm talking about

 

[Karak]

You could stick in a 16gb flash chip (like one of the PS4 rumours) seperate to the HDD. Just arrange it so it can be used to cache the HDD or BRD or whatever you want. That's easy for me to say I don't design these things or know what I'm talking about

Hopefully, when in the design phase, PRE design. They at least look at the usefulness of things like this.

 

[Zoe]

If they offer the ability to use any SSD as a replacement for whatever you have or an addon...its pretty bank though.

So exactly how it works now.

 

[Karak]

So exactly how it works now.

Sorry I don't have my PS3 anymore

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

thuway, if the ps4 isn't getting 4gb of gddr, i will hunt you down. kidding obviously

 

[i-Lo]

So we are back to 4GB GDDR5 I see. Getting a bit worried given that'll NOT be the amount dedicated for game development. I have this but let me ask again, why not two unified pools; one for game development at 4GB GDDR5 and another for about 1-1.5GB LPDDR3 for OS (including GUI) related tasks? I don't see switching between the two memory banks would be a tedium with today's processing power.

 

[specialguy]

thuway, if the ps4 isn't getting 4gb of gddr, i will hunt you down. kidding obviously

seems pretty reasonable, been speculated all along etc. and i think lherre tacitly said it some time ago (he said other next gen at least 2x ram of wii u, which means 4gb plus)

my fun project is:

Durango:

1.25 TF
8 1.6ghz Jaguar cores CPU
Custom hardware of some sort to improve performance
8GB DDR3+ESRAM

Vs PS4

1.84 TF
4 Steamroller cores
4GB GDDR5

fight!

PS4 looks a little better to me, but Durango would have advantages too (such as more RAM, presuming it wasn't too slow to fully utilize)

I could see after OS reserves, it being something more like 5GB Durango vs 3.5 GB Orbis game RAM, but that's still an edge for Durango, again provided it has the bandwidth to take advantage.

 

[Angelus Errare]

thuway, if the ps4 isn't getting 4gb of gddr, i will hunt you down. kidding obviously

Too late, quoted for potential email to homeland security.

 

[kuroshiki]

If PS4 can somehow pulls 8X performance improvement over PS3 I would be happy. That's generation jump for me.

 

[MWS Natural]

It's overall bandwidth that matters, which can be accomplished either through speed or sheer number.

Gotcha. Thanks.

I wonder if we could see Sony come out with an architecture that's more developer friendly than what MS is coming with.

Regardless MS' next console will be developer friendly because they have great tools. That is one thing they have always done well.

 

[Gorillaz]

MS has a little too much momentum this gen and heading into next gen with 3rd party devs in the West. Even if PS4 is on par in tools with it I still see 3rd party siding with MS.

 

[Karak]

So we are back to 4GB GDDR5 I see. Getting a bit worried given that'll NOT be the amount dedicated for game development. I have this but let me ask again, why not two unified pools; one for game development at 4GB GDDR5 and another for about 1-1.5GB LPDDR3 for OS (including GUI) related tasks? I don't see switching between the two memory banks would be a tedium with today's processing power.

Don't know but if this did get updated and we have a leapfrog situation for the dev kits it is ONLY positive for all of us. Though the dev kits will fluctuate to their target this kind of tit for tat will guarantee the best systems DAY 1 for us. Price will be the big issue of course but there are ways to mitigate that.

 

[MWS Natural]

MS has a little too much momentum this gen and heading into next gen with 3rd party devs in the West. Even if PS4 is on par in tools with it I still see 3rd party siding with MS.

Why take a side? They will develop for both systems just like this gen. If not they are leaving too much money on the table.

 

[i-Lo]

Don't know but if this did get updated and we have a leapfrog situation for the dev kits it is ONLY positive for all of us. Though the dev kits will fluctuate to their target this kind of tit for tat will guarantee the best systems DAY 1 for us. Price will be the big issue of course but there are ways to mitigate that.

Wait, is the new rumour courtesy of the new dev kit that is/was supposed to be out this month?

 

[Lord Error]

Because it's cheaper to build, and will get even cheaper over time. I think both want to make a profit from the start this time around.

Which makes things easier for Valve.

But how can it be cheaper when the yields will probably be horrible, and cooling probably much more difficult/expensive due to huge chips heating up much more?

Valve is a non factor here, IMO. They'll sell something that plays exact same games that people will already be able to play on machines they already own, and nothing more. It's hard to get excited for that. Plus, I doubt they'll sell it at a loss either.

 

[Karak]

Wait, is the new rumour courtesy of the new dev kit that is/was supposed to be out this month?

Not sure. Just reading through all the posts on the other websites. Looks like just a leak of whats coming to the kits. So if its true. Its a leapfrog at least in that one section.
That being said we do have the special hardware on the durango. But again, either way you have a situation where hopefully the competition makes us all end up with more powerful systems.

 

[Gorillaz]

Why take a side? They will develop for both systems just like this gen. If not they are leaving too much money on the table.

I see Moneyhatting being a big force next gen like it was during the past 3 years. Timed Exclusive type shit. Hopefully not but with the way this gen ended.....idk man.