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[VGC] Halo Infinite developer concedes ‘the community is out of patience’

Leyasu

Member
Not sure how it’s even got to this point considering Halo 4 had a great amount of map variety and Halo 5 was much more feature rich, with game modes like Warzone Firefight.

It’s as if the studio is regressing as time goes on.

The content pipeline is unbelievably poor and has cost them 95% of their player base. I don’t know how this hasn’t got Phil Spencer’s back up. Surely he has asked the 343 hierarchy what the fuck is taking so long? Covid doesn’t cut it when everyone else has adapted just fine.
It’s beyond belief that the management at 343 are still there. Something is seriously wrong at the studio
 
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Leyasu

Member
Still playing every day, people will flood back when new season drops like they always do, nothing to worry about. It's still an immensely satisfying gameplay loop.
I still play it more than anything else at the moment. But I don’t think that there will be a massive influx of players once season 2 drops.

They might have had a chance if had managed to get a few more maps per mode, coop and forge ready for season 2. But the pitiful amount of content that they have ready won’t be enough I fear.

It’s a shame because I personally think that it is the best playing halo yet.

343 are gonna 343 it though
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Still playing every day, people will flood back when new season drops like they always do, nothing to worry about. It's still an immensely satisfying gameplay loop.

But how do you know that? There's only been one season so far...

They don't "always" flood back, that's why there's so many GaaS failures.
 
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Banjo64

Gold Member
I still play it more than anything else at the moment. But I don’t think that there will be a massive influx of players once season 2 drops.

They might have had a chance if had managed to get a few more maps per mode, coop and forge ready for season 2. But the pitiful amount of content that they have ready won’t be enough I fear.

It’s a shame because I personally think that it is the best playing halo yet.

343 are gonna 343 it though
Agree that the players won’t flood back for season 2. Season 2 needed 2 new arena maps, minimum, in my option. I love Halo, it’s always been my primary FPS game, but 1 new arena map doesn’t have the pull to bring me back.

I played Apex seriously for the first time since Season 2 the other night, and it’s such a fun and joyous game. I don’t even have the battle pass in Apex, I was just playing for the enjoyment. As soon as I got to level 100 in Infinite, my motivation to play just completely deserted me.
 
First person shooters are hard to make.
Multiplayer first person shooters have advanced so much that you can't just sell what worked before anymore. Sony basically didn't even try to compete with third parties. Sony didn't focus on single player experiences because they wanted to cater to my tastes, they just didn't want to directly compete with what was already out there.

People who usd to play Halo games, are playing other franchises now. And unless Halo could do something new, it wouldn't be able to get its old audiences back.

It's like how people don't go watch movies because of the main lead anymore like they used to; people don't play games just because of its tile. Marketing only works so far, you need meat behind it.

i suspect a big part of it is that there are already so much free content that we could play at any time, that you need something seriously bulky to impress people now. And i am not saying this is impossible; Elden Ring did it. But clearly Elden Ring was a continuation of a solid franchise by the same team who kept improving their formula. While Halo is not sure what made it so successful to begin it, or what worked years ago is actually enough now.
 

ACESHIGH

Member
How about the elephant in the room: Shit tier PC optimization in both campaign and MP. Step into the open world and watch those FPS go down even if you have an overpowered rig, while your 1.6 ghz Jaguar cores from 2013 can easily play the game at 30 FPS. Hell the Xbox one X even plays at 60 FPS.
 
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Halo only ever needed to inject itself into new maps and modes. What does this mean exactly?

Make a battle royale but Halo in every way.

Make a PvE experience and make it Halo.

Embrace the community just like Minecraft did with PC, mods, content creation vs survival modes.

Proper and regular story content every 3 or 6 months and keepnit rolling.

A mini dev team dedicated to esports with rapid sandbox changes and maps.

All of this could have easily been developed and enhanced from a Halo 4 or Halo 5 engine base over the last 6.5 years. The results speak for themselves.
 
And people wonder why Sony is pee shy with their FPS venture.

Well screw em I say, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail!
I would certainly find it interesting if HALO ended up in the hands of ID software department of Bethesda. I mean, the old team is gone but they were still the origin of Doom that started it all.

But if that really happened, the 343 team might as well disband in shame. Because they were literately hired to do ONE JOB, and they failed that.
 
I was out of patience with 343 a very long time ago. 343's resume for me:

  1. Title update for Reach ruining the game
  2. Halo 4 - Garbage
  3. Master Chief Collection - Bought an Xbox just for this and the game didn't work correctly for years
  4. Halo 5 - Garbage
  5. Halo Infinite - Lol

Halo needs a new developer. I don't know how you can take a hit series and make it irrelevant.
Because 343 top suits are fucking idiots, just take kiki wolfkill for example, before joining 343 , she was working on encarta, a fucking encyclopedia, what experience she can have in game development.

since halo 4, their games dont even follow their own narrative, all are their own thing and left alot of stupid plots you need to follow in a stupid comic or a novel, if halo is irrelevant its in part because they continue to fuck up with terrible cross media content

and lets not talk about mp, the req system in 5 start the whole microtransaction fad ea follow next, they literally make a pay 2 win mode, warzone, their mp has been shit for years

and the cherry on top, they dont follow trends because they believe halo is still the juggernaut to other games, and thats not the case, since halo we have call of duty, overwatch and fortnite, the fps genre evolve and 343 refuse to admit it
 

Crew511A

Member
Still playing every day, people will flood back when new season drops like they always do, nothing to worry about. It's still an immensely satisfying gameplay loop.

Season 2 is bringing us 2 new MP maps. 1 for arena, 1 for BTB. That's not even close to enough. Considering Sniper Elite 5 comes out on Gamepass around the same time as Season 2 drops, I'll be busy elsewhere. There's no excuse for this nonsense. 2 new maps is a joke.
 

Shmunter

Member
Because we've seen this before with Sea Of Thieves and that turned into a massive success, same will happen here.
But they can’t even do VRR right, and it gets your support!?!

Sweaty Big red button.jpg
 
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kuncol02

Member
Because 343 top suits are fucking idiots, just take kiki wolfkill for example, before joining 343 , she was working on encarta, a fucking encyclopedia, what experience she can have in game development.
She spend 16 years as art lead or art director for various gaming projects in MS you fucking sexist idiot.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Because we've seen this before with Sea Of Thieves and that turned into a massive success, same will happen here.

There are very few exceptions, Rainbow Six Siege, Sea of Thieves and sort of (its not really a GaaS game they just update it for free) No Man's Sky.

However you can look at the long list of attempted dead GaaS to see what happens when it dousent work out. Did people flood back to Anthem? Or Battleborn? Heroes of the Storm? Bleeding Edge? Deathgarden?

There's tons of titles that people don't return to, essentially right now we are promised 2 new maps, a handful of balance changes and much much more MTX... why would a new season who's main draw is a new battle pass be a major draw to a community where only 2% bothered to complete the prior pass?


Sure, there will be a spike, but I think it will take something huge to bring people back on mass. A new shade of green to earn for your AI is just not going to cut it, maybe BTB working and being able to hold a connection would be a start.
 
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She spend 16 years as art lead or art director for various gaming projects in MS you fucking sexist idiot.
so because i have doubt about her past experience now you call me a sexist idiot? amazing ad hominem from your part, in fact, tell me where i say because she was a woman, she was incapable of doing her work, im waiting cuck
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
It depends how good the core gameplay is and on the games that eventually achieved success they had that ingredient, so does Halo Infinite.
The others didn't and that's why they died, MS will continue to support the game and Gamepass on both Xbox and PC will continue to grow bringing in new users, they have a long plan for the game.
 
It depends how good the core gameplay is and on the games that eventually achieved success they had that ingredient, so does Halo Infinite.
The others didn't and that's why they died, MS will continue to support the game and Gamepass on both Xbox and PC will continue to grow bringing in new users, they have a long plan for the game.
You are literally saying the exact same thing that was said for every other dead GaaS game.

We have heard it all before. The number of games that pull it off can be counted with one hand.
 
You are literally saying the exact same thing that was said for every other dead GaaS game.

We have heard it all before. The number of games that pull it off can be counted with one hand.
To be honest, the only 1 i know who have a terrible start was Final Fantasy XIV, and thats it

Halo its not going to be a dead game but its going to have like 15 000-20 000 players active and thats just because of the brand, and maybe 4 to 5 years before the next game come, 10 years is impossible
 

ethomaz

Banned
They seem more interested in diversity within the studio, instead of getting people in who can get the job done.
I saw that being posted two or thee times but I don’t think it is even remotely related.
The 343i issues are recurrent since the studio was created in 2009? So it is not something new due the diversity policies.
 
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My issues aren't their diversity policies or who works on what but the end results. Under the 343 management each game has been broken, lacking launch content and generally missed the mark more than hit it.

How many times do you sail into the same winds with the same captain and crew before you jump ship or are made to walk the plank?
 

CuNi

Member
Interesting points.

Can you say the Gamepass model to have affected the decisions behind development of Halo Infinite?

I'm no insider so I only can say what it looks like to me etc. But I wouldn't say it ended the way it is because it was planned to be a gamepass game from the very beginning. To be fair, I'd even say i think they hoped to achieve the very opposite. The way the game was hyped up, up to the Craig meme trailer leads me to believe that they hoped it to become a huge success even outside gamepass and be used in marketing to boost gamepass, akin to "even award winning games come to game pass!!" to bolster a image of quality, not just quantity.

Obviously that kinda went down the drain when it first of had to be delayed a whole year because of fan outcry and even then had to pass community core aspects like coop and forge and move them from release to undisclosed later dates. I mean just look at it. It's been out for over 4 months now and as of Today, it Stil has no coop, ray tracing, forge or real big update. We had 2 or 3 mp events that were convoluted and instead of affirming gamers of its gaas potential only brought in even more criticism for being way too heavily monetized and executed poorly in terms of game modes, stability etc.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I'm no insider so I only can say what it looks like to me etc. But I wouldn't say it ended the way it is because it was planned to be a gamepass game from the very beginning. To be fair, I'd even say i think they hoped to achieve the very opposite. The way the game was hyped up, up to the Craig meme trailer leads me to believe that they hoped it to become a huge success even outside gamepass and be used in marketing to boost gamepass, akin to "even award winning games come to game pass!!" to bolster a image of quality, not just quantity.

Obviously that kinda went down the drain when it first of had to be delayed a whole year because of fan outcry and even then had to pass community core aspects like coop and forge and move them from release to undisclosed later dates. I mean just look at it. It's been out for over 4 months now and as of Today, it Stil has no coop, ray tracing, forge or real big update. We had 2 or 3 mp events that were convoluted and instead of affirming gamers of its gaas potential only brought in even more criticism for being way too heavily monetized and executed poorly in terms of game modes, stability etc.
The lack of key features like that just hint to me the game was not ready for a 2020 release and the delay was not just due the graphical look.
If they where not ready with all feature today they were not in 2020 too.
Of course the graphical look meltdown just added more to the delay... instead to work in these key features in the whole 2021 they had to up they render base.

I believe the delay should had happened in any way... or they may release only the SP and the MP planed to 2021 but with Craig what planned to work in 2021 had to chance and be delayed... what we are saying today is what they probably had to work in 2021 in original plan.

I'm guessing it was like that:

Late 2020: SP release
Late 2021: MP release

But Craig happened and they had to work on the graphical render of the Engine for a whole year... so SP launched in late 2021... and that 1 year work they planned to MP was not done so launched like it was (Executive pressure).

Today (2022) they are working in the planned/schedule of 2021 for the MP launch but now the MP already launched.

Just guesses of course.
Maybe they will only the MP they actually planned to launch in late 2022.
 
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Inviusx

Member
Once forge and coop hit there will be a huge surge. Halo fans just need to wait which sucks because this stuff should've been there at launch.
 

CuNi

Member
Once forge and coop hit there will be a huge surge. Halo fans just need to wait which sucks because this stuff should've been there at launch.

I think the problem is, had coop and forge released with the respective sp and mp releases, i think it would have had generated more buzz and, depending on infinites planned forge capabilities, maybe even had a somewhat healthy forge fan base with arcade games etc. The more people are exposed to such tools, the more and better the results. Since playerbase has already heavily dwindled, it remains to be seen if creators care enough to come back and check out the tools. Obviously some will come back, but we will never know if it's the same amount or the same creators as if it were released day 1. Sometimes loosing creators is way worse than the players.

Imagine Warcraft 3 would have not had its editor. Can anyone say it would have been as popular as it was? Who knows if we would've had games like Dota etc. If it would have released a year late or even later. Tools that solely rely on community interaction lose value rapidly the smaller the community they end up being exposed to becomes.
 
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Lognor

Banned
Forge mode still seems a long way off. Hopefully it does not face another delay.

With season 2 releasing in a month, when can we expect to hear details on what it will include? There should at a minimum be new maps and new game modes, but wondering what else they have that will have the fanbase come back.
 

BlackTron

Member
Still playing every day, people will flood back when new season drops like they always do, nothing to worry about. It's still an immensely satisfying gameplay loop.

I'm there for the core gameplay which is rock solid. TBH a lot of games now have a lot of content but I find the core gameplay lame. Halo is the opposite. But I would prefer 30 seconds of fun over and over, than a big variety of mediocre experiences.

However, there's no reason we shouldn't have both. And while it may be enough to keep ME in the game, in the grand scheme of making Halo a successful and profitable franchise with a lot of relevancy and active players, it sucks and is going to hurt the game/IP.

I mean, this game could have been a mainstream casual hit. They could have made massive MTX money on other modes the same way games like Fortnite do, and therefore could have a better progression system than the dumpster fire we have now.
 

BlackTron

Member
Forge mode still seems a long way off. Hopefully it does not face another delay.

With season 2 releasing in a month, when can we expect to hear details on what it will include? There should at a minimum be new maps and new game modes, but wondering what else they have that will have the fanbase come back.

I don't even pay attention to their promises because I don't expect anything. It's just when things happen to happen, cool. Until then who knows.

Whatever their promise is to deliver Forge, I don't think they will make it.
 

01011001

Member
Forge mode still seems a long way off. Hopefully it does not face another delay.

With season 2 releasing in a month, when can we expect to hear details on what it will include? There should at a minimum be new maps and new game modes, but wondering what else they have that will have the fanbase come back.

in season 2 they will release 1 new small map and 1 new big team map, and will add some of the missing modes that were timed event modes before into the normal playlists.

that's about it... also some minor, and frankly useless, balance changes.

it's basically like Halo 5's post launch updates, but worse, slower rollout and for a game with 10% of the launch day content of Halo 5...

"games as a service" but without the service xD


just to being back some perspective into this:

this is what it looked like when players still had some standards, because what you see below was criticised by many to be a lackluster launch



it was seen as lackluster because Forge and some modes like Infection weren't there on launch, but only got added like 3 months after launch...

looking back at that it's almost comedic comparing this to Infinite, and seeing people defend Infinite 🤣 which launched without half the content of 5 and has 10 MP maps across all modes 🤣 and no coop at launch, almost no modes and still manages to have playlists that are deserted if you play at the wrong time of day 🤣 due to a player exodus that is unheard of in the Halo franchise.
Halo 5 had like 15 playlists at launch, all of them populated for years without issue.
 
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Banjo64

Gold Member
Just checked the achievement and I actually completed the battle pass 72 days ago… wonder why the achievement image has 120 on it instead of 100.
 

01011001

Member
Just checked the achievement and I actually completed the battle pass 72 days ago… wonder why the achievement image has 120 on it instead of 100.

they took out Reach themed armor close to launch to sell them individually on the Shop, that has been datamined ages ago.
they then replaced part of the armor with filler junk like XP boosts and reduced the BP down to 100 levels.

they did the same with the Tenrai event until the backlash to that was so big that they put some of it back into the event pass

being the dogshit developers they are, they of course forgot to change the battlepass achievement image, AND STILL HAVEN'T CHANGED IT TO THIS DAY, because that would mean there are people there that actually know what's going on, and you can't have that in 343 Industries! they have an image to maintain after all
 
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Banjo64

Gold Member
they took out Reach themed armor close to launch to sell them individually on the Shop, that has been datamined ages ago.
they then replaced part of the armor with filler junk like XP boosts and reduced the BP down to 100 levels.

they did the same with the Tenrai event until the backlash to that was so big that they put some of it back into the event pass

being the dogshit developers they are, they of course forgot to change the battlepass achievement image, AND STILL HAVEN'T CHANGED IT TO THIS DAY, because that would mean there are people there that actually know what's going on, and you can't have that in 343 Industries! they have an image to maintain after all
Thanks for the info, that’s all hilariously pathetic stuff from 343 :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Thanks for the info, that’s all hilariously pathetic stuff from 343 :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Its things like that which make people actively want the game to fail, because if its a success and they continue to get away with it, it just means more games will follow suite, I mean why not? You have a fanbase of people who actively enjoy getting less and praising you for it.

I have to go to indies these days for any sense of value these days, thank christ there getting more popular these days on PC.
 
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I saw that being posted two or thee times but I don’t think it is even remotely related.
The 343i issues are recurrent since the studio was created in 2009? So it is not something new due the diversity policies.

but they only seems to have gotten worse since than. halo 4 was actually decent. i actually enjoyed it just as much as the bungie triogy. since then though, they have completely dropped the ball. we all know this diversity crap isnt helping studio's.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Nothing you've written addresses anything in my post in a meaningful way.

Halo Infinite's gameplay is solid. Literally every other aspect of the game is questionable at best, hence its failure.

Lol, the game hasn't failed at all. Seriously twisted comments in here.
 
It must be the community's faut 😅.

These people are so impatient for wanting what was promised... It's almost like they pulled a baith and switch on the gamers.

And how the press handled the marketing for them 🏆
 

ethomaz

Banned
but they only seems to have gotten worse since than. halo 4 was actually decent. i actually enjoyed it just as much as the bungie triogy. since then though, they have completely dropped the ball. we all know this diversity crap isnt helping studio's.
I don’t know but the issues were very similar and why people dropped Halo 4 MP after few weeks/months.




Non-addictive MP lacking maps, interesting weapons, modes, etc…
 
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Banjo64

Gold Member
Lol, the game hasn't failed at all. Seriously twisted comments in here.
It was sat at 2k Steam users when I checked this morning. Halo 3 regularly had 1m concurrent players.

I wouldn’t call it a failed game, however I would say that there are serious questions that need to be asked.
 

Lognor

Banned
I don't even pay attention to their promises because I don't expect anything. It's just when things happen to happen, cool. Until then who knows.

Whatever their promise is to deliver Forge, I don't think they will make it.
A quick google search shows Forge is coming in August. I agree; I"m not holding my breath that they meet that time frame.
 
they took out Reach themed armor close to launch to sell them individually on the Shop, that has been datamined ages ago.
they then replaced part of the armor with filler junk like XP boosts and reduced the BP down to 100 levels.

they did the same with the Tenrai event until the backlash to that was so big that they put some of it back into the event p

being the dogshit developers they are, they of course forgot to change the battlepass achievement image, AND STILL HAVEN'T CHANGED IT TO THIS DAY, because that would mean there are people there that actually know what's going on, and you can't have that in 343 Industries! they have an image to maintain after all
Sounds a little like the broken campaigns of Halo 1 and 2 on Xb1X stuttering bug that was introduced by 343 when Reach update released ....1.5 years ago! You think 343 fixed it or even acknowledged it?

They are a shit developer in their attitude and the way they treat their customers. Very arrogant. They're one of these devs that will accuse gamers of being "toxic and entitled" on Reddit (ever notice the devs that do this are always the ones who are in the process of ruining their respective franchises at the time?).

The folly of Infinite is only going to get more obvious to people as time goes on and more people start realizing how colossal the fuck up of Infinite is. When people realize what's become of Halo. The lack of content, maps and modes for such a historically significant multiplayer game known for its robust multiplayer cannot be over stated.

Then as time goes on as people realize that campaign expansions with new biomes/story will never happen. Unless 343 can pull off the greatest turnaround ever which with how arrogant and woke they are, I don't see either.

Just as much of the blame should be on MS too.
 

DAHGAMING

Member
Sounds a little like the broken campaigns of Halo 1 and 2 on Xb1X stuttering bug that was introduced by 343 when Reach update released ....1.5 years ago! You think 343 fixed it or even acknowledged it?

They are a shit developer in their attitude and the way they treat their customers. Very arrogant. They're one of these devs that will accuse gamers of being "toxic and entitled" on Reddit (ever notice the devs that do this are always the ones who are in the process of ruining their respective franchises at the time?).

The folly of Infinite is only going to get more obvious to people as time goes on and more people start realizing how colossal the fuck up of Infinite is. When people realize what's become of Halo. The lack of content, maps and modes for such a historically significant multiplayer game known for its robust multiplayer cannot be over stated.

Then as time goes on as people realize that campaign expansions with new biomes/story will never happen. Unless 343 can pull off the greatest turnaround ever which with how arrogant and woke they are, I don't see either.

Just as much of the blame should be on MS too.


I do love this game and ot has a solid platform to build on but I dont know what the fuck there building. Im someone who at the moment only plays 2-5 hrs a week and even to me theres a lack of content, I dont even give a fuck about battlepass or unlocks, my main concern is maps. Also I think you will be right about the single player content with new bioms, story content ect. 10 year project, we can see why, thats how long itl take to have an actualy worthy full game.
 
Its things like that which make people actively want the game to fail, because if its a success and they continue to get away with it, it just means more games will follow suite, I mean why not? You have a fanbase of people who actively enjoy getting less and praising you for it.
To an extent, yes.

I think we should consider what success requires though. For Infinite to succeed 343 will have to have put out the content it was supposed to put out and more to make up for its many shortcomings and displeased fans. So let's say 343 does all that in the end and Infinite eventually becomes successful - did 343 really get away with anything? 343 have been hearing the outcry of criticism about Infinite for months now and are well aware of the dire position Infinite is in currently. What developer really wants to go through the same embarrassment and have to work extra hard to earn back fan's trust? The idea that this situation sets a precedent for other devs doesn't really add up. Even if Infinite succeeds, it would be an absolutely horrible model to follow.
 

CuNi

Member
To an extent, yes.

I think we should consider what success requires though. For Infinite to succeed 343 will have to have put out the content it was supposed to put out and more to make up for its many shortcomings and displeased fans. So let's say 343 does all that in the end and Infinite eventually becomes successful - did 343 really get away with anything? 343 have been hearing the outcry of criticism about Infinite for months now and are well aware of the dire position Infinite is in currently. What developer really wants to go through the same embarrassment and have to work extra hard to earn back fan's trust? The idea that this situation sets a precedent for other devs doesn't really add up. Even if Infinite succeeds, it would be an absolutely horrible model to follow.

I think he meant that if Infinite succeeds without 343i really fixing many issues, then that wound be the signal for other devs.

I feel like hello games with no man's sky is a good example of how a game can be turned around from being in a terrible situation to a really great game. Their story showed that if you really stick to your word and work hard towards making the initial promise come true, fans will acknowledge it and you can re earn the trust of players. Will everybody be cautious about your next game? Sure. But they will at least know you kept your word on the last one even when it launched in a bad state.
 

metaverse

Member
I think he meant that if Infinite succeeds without 343i really fixing many issues, then that wound be the signal for other devs.

I feel like hello games with no man's sky is a good example of how a game can be turned around from being in a terrible situation to a really great game. Their story showed that if you really stick to your word and work hard towards making the initial promise come true, fans will acknowledge it and you can re earn the trust of players. Will everybody be cautious about your next game? Sure. But they will at least know you kept your word on the last one even when it launched in a bad state.
Good example, but is the situation even remotely comparable? No Man’s Sky was developed by an indie studio with ~10 people and ~10 million budget. A fraction of the resources in comparison. 343i has a history of repeatedly failing and under delivering with near infinite resources.
 
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Honestly halo infinite plays great, the loop is awesome - and I loved the campaign. But there needs to be way more maps, more modes, campaign co op should’ve been in yesterday and they should have a battle royale - I probably am not gonna revisit until campaign co op is in. Hopefully by then many of the other things will be added
 
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