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VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)

abadguy

Banned
Jun 14, 2012
5,624
0
0
What on earth does MS have to do with those games getting released on Live??? Is Al Gore responsible for every cool website that pops up (he invented the internets).
You mean other than the fact that they are all published by MS and two of them are first party? Just accept that your whole "MS abandoning core" and "lack of new games "argument is a load of shit and be done with it.
 

Marty Chinn

Member
Jun 6, 2004
31,449
0
1,585
Holy crap at this thread. Some of you people can't read.

This really sounds like a case where a girl says "I like you", and the guy thinks "Holy shit, she wants to get married and have babies!".

This document does not confirm most of the things being said in this thread.

If anything after reading the 27 pages, I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the possibility that the console won't support Dolby Digital just like the Wii U. That to me is the bigger holy shit warning flag that I can't believe nobody has mentioned yet. Did people gloss over this?
 

Stripper13

Member
Aug 20, 2008
1,954
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Nothing to suggest it? How about every rumor (many of them that contain details that have been all but confirmed).

They already dropped the core market. Have you honestly not noticed the shift away from original / new games and game series these past 3-4 years?

Its Gears, Halo, Forza, wash, rinse, repeat, make it annual, make the money.
The rumours are foggy at best with regards to the online element.

And no - you are incorrect they have not dropped the core market. It may not be your taste in games... but I've had a ton of games to play on the 360 the last few years. Not always made/published by Microsoft, nor always exclusives titles - but there is plenty of content flowing through.

It may not be at the level Sony is providing - but let's not pretent that Microsoft dropped the core market.
 

XtremeXpider

Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,091
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0
If anything after reading the 27 pages, I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the possibility that the console won't support Dolby Digital just like the Wii U. That to me is the bigger holy shit warning flag that I can't believe nobody has mentioned yet. Did people gloss over this?
S/PDIF is mencioned, it is ok for me.
 

Tripp Daily

Member
Dec 5, 2012
645
0
0
I just thought of another reason for MS to require you to always be online: So they can constantly show you ads.
Oh wow, you are so bright!

If you do not like ads: turn off your computer, turn off your Tv, turn off your radio, go to your room and discard all clothes posters and items that are branded, lock your doors shut the blinds and do not speak to anyone about their opinion on any manufactured item.

Once again, ads are a good thing. They inform you on different products and they help keep developers (small and large) that make the games we love in business.

For people to complain about ads when you are surrounded by ads everyday that you have no issue with is pure ignorance.
 

KenOD

a kinder, gentler sort of Scrooge
Jan 23, 2011
5,939
0
600
i could care less about always online, install to hdd, and no used games. but required kinect means im out, and will be going ps4 exclusively
Are you sure you don't mean you couldn't care less? Saying could care less means you do in fact still care.

I don't get the bit about having Kinect required as being the final straw though. Are you are afraid every game will require it? Is it the added price such a feature will add to the console? What about PS4 with it's camera being included? Are you afraid of being secretly recorded while the next Xbox sends the pictures back to Microsoft and use as blackmail in the future? What?
 

fillup

Member
Oct 21, 2007
49
2
815
Holy crap at this thread. Some of you people can't read.

This really sounds like a case where a girl says "I like you", and the guy thinks "Holy shit, she wants to get married and have babies!".

This document does not confirm most of the things being said in this thread.

If anything after reading the 27 pages, I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the possibility that the console won't support Dolby Digital just like the Wii U. That to me is the bigger holy shit warning flag that I can't believe nobody has mentioned yet. Did people gloss over this?

The doc says it supports 7.1 discrete pcm through hdmi and s/pdif. Isn't that way better than dolby digital 5.1?
 

sangreal

Member
May 19, 2005
36,226
0
1,225
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Holy crap at this thread. Some of you people can't read.

This really sounds like a case where a girl says "I like you", and the guy thinks "Holy shit, she wants to get married and have babies!".

This document does not confirm most of the things being said in this thread.

If anything after reading the 27 pages, I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the possibility that the console won't support Dolby Digital just like the Wii U. That to me is the bigger holy shit warning flag that I can't believe nobody has mentioned yet. Did people gloss over this?
I know it isn't mentioned, but I doubt that. Xbox has always had DD support and why bother with s/pdif otherwise?
 

Raven77

Member
Jul 4, 2012
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0
445
The rumours are foggy at best with regards to the online element.

And no - you are incorrect they have not dropped the core market. It may not be your taste in games... but I've had a ton of games to play on the 360 the last few years. Not always made/published by Microsoft, nor always exclusives titles - but there is plenty of content flowing through.

It may not be at the level Sony is providing - but let's not pretent that Microsoft dropped the core market.

Well we each have our opinions and that's fine, the world continues to spin. I hope you're right, I honestly TRULY do.

Also, about those xbox live games, yeah if they are published by MS then they are obviously very responsible for them. I don't pay attention to much that gets release on live these days so thanks for the info.
 

Codeblew

Member
Jun 24, 2010
1,391
0
550
Oh wow, you are so bright!

If you do not like ads: turn off your computer, turn off your Tv, turn off your radio, go to your room and discard all clothes posters and items that are branded, lock your doors shut the blinds and do not speak to anyone about their opinion on any manufactured item.

Once again, ads are a good thing. They inform you on different products and they help keep developers (small and large) that make the games we love in business.

For people to complain about ads when you are surrounded by ads everyday that you have no issue with is pure ignorance.
I shouldn't have to deal with ads on hardware that I paid $400+ on. Not to mention the $60 games. They should be more than happy with that money.
 

Marty Chinn

Member
Jun 6, 2004
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The doc says it supports 7.1 discrete pcm through hdmi and s/pdif. Isn't that way better than dobly digital 5.1?
It's better, and it doesn't affect me. However, there are a lot of people who would have problems with it. One doesn't need to look any further than the people complaining about the Wii U.

I know it isn't mentioned, but I doubt that. Xbox has always had DD support and why bother with s/pdif otherwise?
Could be for movies or 2.0 PCM.

Mind you I'm not saying for sure that it won't have DD, but the specific mention of PCM makes me wonder question it, especially after the Wii U fiasco.
 

XtremeXpider

Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,091
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It's vague, but the fact is you can't get 7.1 through S/PDIF nor can you get more than 2 channel PCM over S/PDIF.
S/PDIF is clearly mentioned, and S/PDIF can be RCA or toslink, toslink is multichannel.

EDIT:

OP: Can you add the text from the image?

The Durango console is designed to offer game developers modern hardware that is more powerful than the Xbox 360. It uses a familiar x64 architecture and tools, and compared with Xbox 360 development time and effort spent on perfomance optimization. Hardware accelerators, including "move engines" for common tasks, will be added to the console. Move engines can perform common game tasks like compression and decompression while moving data around the system. The console also has dedicated hardware support form common audio processing tasks that reduce the amount of CPU time that must be devoted to audio. The GPU provides considerable computing power, and supports Direct3D 11.

Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use. The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current. With this 'Always On, Always Connected' design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install updates.

Every Durango console will be sold with a new high-fidelity Kinect Sensor, which will be requiered for the system to operate. The console will provide HD videos, and will use new depth sensor technology to provide better screen resolution and less noisy depth data. Active infrared illumination will provide high-quality monochrome images ever in low ambiente light conditions. A wider field of view allows play in smaller spaces and removes the need for a tilt motor.

System software will offer a full set of system API for Natural User Interface (NUI), and the API set will be corresponding API used by Xbox 360. Skeleton tracking, identity, and other NUI functions will be performed by the system and for that reason, titles no longer need to allocate title resources to NUI.

The Durango controller will make the best-in-class Xbox 360 controller ever better. It will have low-latency wireless connectivity to the console, and improve ergonomics. System interactions that use the controller will be simplified to make them easier for noncore gamers.

Every Durango console will have a hard drive, although its exact capacity has not been choosen. It will be large enough, however, to hold a large number of games. All games will be installed on the hard drive. Play from optical disc will be not supported.

Durango consoles will have Blu-ray Disc drive. Disc media will be used dor distributuion, but during gameplay, games will not use content from optical disc. An installation system is being designed that will allow gamers to begin playing while the game is being installed on the hard drive rather than waiting until insatallation is complete.

Audio from Durango will be all digital - 7.1 discrete PCM output through HDMIU and S/PDIF. Hardware accelerators will be included for decoding and decompressing common audio formats. There also will be a dedicated processor to perform common signal processing in hardware.
People MUST read this before posting.
 

Tripp Daily

Member
Dec 5, 2012
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I shouldn't have to deal with ads on hardware that I paid $400+ on. Not to mention the $60 games. They should be more than happy with that money.
You pay a monthly fee for cable/sat and Internet and probably shelled out a lot more than $400 for a Tv and a computer. Do you also throw fits when an ad crosses the screen of those devices?
 

grap3fruitman

Banned
Sep 20, 2007
6,532
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0
Holy crap at this thread. Some of you people can't read.

If anything after reading the 27 pages, I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the possibility that the console won't support Dolby Digital just like the Wii U. That to me is the bigger holy shit warning flag that I can't believe nobody has mentioned yet. Did people gloss over this?
No, they didn't gloss over it. They simply can read is all.

Audio from Durango will be all digital - 7.1 discrete PCM output through HDMIU and S/PDIF. Hardware accelerators will be included for decoding and decompressing common audio formats. There also will be a dedicated processor to perform common signal processing in hardware.
 

XtremeXpider

Member
Jun 1, 2012
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Again, you cannot get 7.1 or more than 2.0 PCM over S/PDIF. You can get 5.1 compressed audio at best.
I don't believe they will restrict sound to 7.1, it is really weird.

If they are supporting S/PDIF, and there is hardware for sound, I guess it will support dolby digital multichannel sound.
 

sangreal

Member
May 19, 2005
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No, they didn't gloss over it. They simply can read is all.
His point is that it only mentions discrete PCM output. What you bolded only highlights that since it is discussing decoding/decompressing on the console instead of bitstreaming to an external decoder.

I think it is being read into too much though. It's just a summary
 

Marty Chinn

Member
Jun 6, 2004
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No, they didn't gloss over it. They simply can read is all.
Read what? I read 7.1 PCM which is not Dolby Digital. Just like the Wii U. There is mention of S/PDIF but that does not support 7.1 or more than 2.0 PCM. So it's really vague on if it will or not. Let's not forget what happened with the Wii U.

I don't believe they will restrict sound to 7.1, it is really weird.
It's really vague wording and not fully detailed. I just don't think what's written guarantees DD. I'm not saying it definitely won't be there, but I don't think it's safe to assume either.
 

XtremeXpider

Member
Jun 1, 2012
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His point is that it only mentions discrete PCM output. What you bolded only highlights that since it is discussing decoding/decompressing on the console instead of bitstreaming to an external decoder.

I think it is being read into too much though. It's just a summary
Well, may be it mean that source audio will be PCM 7.1, and hardware will downsample the audio streams to another formats (I hope). We need more details.
 

Codeblew

Member
Jun 24, 2010
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550
You pay a monthly fee for cable/sat and Internet and probably shelled out a lot more than $400 for a Tv and a computer. Do you also throw fits when an ad crosses the screen of those devices?
I don't have cable TV and my win7 laptop doesn't have ads. Sure, websites have ads, but I didn't pay $400+ to use each website that has ads.
 

grap3fruitman

Banned
Sep 20, 2007
6,532
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His point is that it only mentions discrete PCM output. What you bolded only highlights that since it is discussing decoding/decompressing on the console instead of bitstreaming to an external decoder.

I think it is being read into too much though. It's just a summary
Dolby Digital is the exact definition of a common sound format. Both the Xbox and Xbox 360 use DD as their primary (only, I think) means of digital audio output. Since the Durango is part of Microsoft's "entertainment future" it'll need to play DVDs and Blu-rays, which require DD be supported as well. It's safe to say that DD is in.
 

cpp_is_king

Member
Mar 1, 2011
16,819
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Are you sure you don't mean you couldn't care less? Saying could care less means you do in fact still care.

I don't get the bit about having Kinect required as being the final straw though. Are you are afraid every game will require it? Is it the added price such a feature will add to the console? What about PS4 with it's camera being included? Are you afraid of being secretly recorded while the next Xbox sends the pictures back to Microsoft and use as blackmail in the future? What?
I know, it's a stupid phrase that makes no sense, but it's accepted and commonly spoken both ways (could / couldn't).

Anyway, I don't care whether or not every game will require it, and in fact I'm quite certain every game won't require it. It comes down to voting with my wallet. I'm personally of the opinion that Kinect (and motion control in general) is a fundamentally terrible piece of shit that is a boon on the gaming industry, and I want it to die in a fire. So I won't be supporting any console that won't run without a motion control device plugged in.
 

LukasTaves

Member
Dec 14, 2011
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That's actually sounds pretty nice.

Unless the always on is a requirement, and not just a feature of the console.
 

sangreal

Member
May 19, 2005
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Dolby Digital is the exact definition of a common sound format. Both the Xbox and Xbox 360 use DD as their primary (only, I think) means of digital audio output. Since the Durango is part of Microsoft's "entertainment future" it'll need to play DVDs and Blu-rays, which require DD be supported as well. It's safe to say that DD is in.
Yes, and it says it will decode common formats. It also says it will output discrete PCM. Nowhere does it say it will bitstream (or encode) those formats which is required to get 5.1 over s/pdif. Do I think it will? Yes, but his point is that it certainly doesn't say so there. Also, no, it is not required for blu-ray video. They can just output the decoded stream over HDMI like fat PS3s did for HD audio
 

Marty Chinn

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Jun 6, 2004
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Dolby Digital is the exact definition of a common sound format. Both the Xbox and Xbox 360 use DD as their primary (only, I think) means of digital audio output. Since the Durango is part of Microsoft's "entertainment future" it'll need to play DVDs and Blu-rays, which require DD be supported as well. It's safe to say that DD is in.
Passing on the already included bitstream is not the same thing as on the fly encoding. Look at the PC. PCs can pass on a DD or DTS bitstream, but games don't do on the fly encoding. They only output multichannel PCM.
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
Mar 30, 2012
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Australia
www.neogaf.com
The worst part out of all of this is by far the mandatory install.
How?

Would you prefer to play some random mission for 15 minutes then wait 5 minutes while it streams the next section off of bluray?

Again, I think people are thinking some incredibly bad scenario based on the information. I highly doubt it will be different to the Xbox 360 install system. Simply requiring the disc to be present before playing the game without actually loading any game data from disc.
 

LukasTaves

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Dec 14, 2011
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The worst part out of all of this is by far the mandatory install.
But it says it starts installing as soon as you popin the disc on the drive and that you can start playing right away, before the game finishes installing...

That also gives hope for instant gaming on downloadable titles...
 

XtremeXpider

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Jun 1, 2012
3,091
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How?

Would you prefer to play some random mission for 15 minutes then wait 5 minutes while it streams the next section off of bluray?

Again, I think people are thinking some incredibly bad scenario based on the information. I highly doubt it will be different to the Xbox 360 install system. Simply requiring the disc to be present before playing the game without actually loading any game data from disc.
Or the PS4 install system...
 

Jarmel

Banned
Mar 3, 2010
43,443
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How?

Would you prefer to play some random mission for 15 minutes then wait 5 minutes while it streams the next section off of bluray?

Again, I think people are thinking some incredibly bad scenario based on the information. I highly doubt it will be different to the Xbox 360 install system. Simply requiring the disc to be present before playing the game without actually loading any game data from disc.
But it says it starts installing as soon as you popin the disc on the drive and that you can start playing right away, before the game finishes installing...

That also gives hope for instant gaming on downloadable titles...
Unless the size of the HDDs are terabytes, a person is going to run into storage issues.
 

TGO

Member
Sep 5, 2007
8,049
1,296
1,210
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I'm eagerly awaiting parents buying Durango cluelessly and finding out the system is worthless without online.
Indeed my ex told me her sister is getting her son the new Xbox for Christmas but they don't have internet, did think about warning them but they'll ignore me like they did when they got the kids wifi android tablets which as you know are pretty useless without internet :-/

^^
I have over 140 PS3 games, DL only would be a bitch but a full mandatory install of every game would be retarded, why waste the Harddrive space? Might as well be DL only
 

KidBeta

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2012
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How?

Would you prefer to play some random mission for 15 minutes then wait 5 minutes while it streams the next section off of bluray?

Again, I think people are thinking some incredibly bad scenario based on the information. I highly doubt it will be different to the Xbox 360 install system. Simply requiring the disc to be present before playing the game without actually loading any game data from disc.
The better question is why can't you have both?. Why restrict to HDD only, surely streaming off the disk + hdd would be better.
 

Snapshot King

Member
Feb 16, 2008
8,710
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Oh wow, you are so bright!

If you do not like ads: turn off your computer, turn off your Tv, turn off your radio, go to your room and discard all clothes posters and items that are branded, lock your doors shut the blinds and do not speak to anyone about their opinion on any manufactured item.

Once again, ads are a good thing. They inform you on different products and they help keep developers (small and large) that make the games we love in business.

For people to complain about ads when you are surrounded by ads everyday that you have no issue with is pure ignorance.
I just want to point out that branded clothes/items/posters are not ads, and neither is talking to someone about a product. In addition, many, many people on the net aggressively use ad-blocker while browsing on their PCs and phones, and get TV directly from sources legitimate (such as Netflix/DVDs/Blu-Rays) or illegitimate (Piracy) that contain no ads.

In addition, if I were to take a bus that has an ad on the side, I realize that public transit is taking that ad so that my fare prices stay down or do not increase in price, providing value to me. It also doesn't affect the usability of the bus or it's service. Having ads served to you on a service you pay for merely hurts the service in order to increase said companies margins. The idea that if I'm paying for something, I shouldn't have to put up with that shit is absolutely valid. People might complain about youtube ads being too long or being annoying, but no ones constantly shitting on them because their service is free.


Also, I refuse to believe this box will not function while online. It must be akin to how a steam box would work. Connects to the internet for most functions, social and otherwise, as well as say, verifying cd-keys upon initial install. But the idea that it becomes a brick when offline is so insane to me that I couldn't possibly think anyone at MS would put forth the idea or that it would gain traction. The Christmas returns post launch alone would be a disaster.
 

XtremeXpider

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Jun 1, 2012
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I don't know why Durango is using Windows 7 instead Windows 8:

Windows 7 window decoration:



Windows 8 window decoration:



"Old" dev kit?
 

LukasTaves

Member
Dec 14, 2011
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Unless the size of the HDDs are terabytes, a person is going to run into storage issues.
Then delete it XD

Since it allows to start playing before the game is even finished, I doubt it would take more than a few minutes from the time you put the disc on the drive and them start playing... They would never make installation required if you had to sit for 10 minutes or more waiting for a install every time you put an uninstalled game...

And that also means the game is already structured to be streamed online, which is also nice.
 

Klocker

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Apr 1, 2006
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Indeed my ex told me her sister is getting her son the new Xbox for Christmas but they don't have internet, did think about warning them but they'll ignore me like they did when they got the kids wifi android tablets which as you know are pretty useless without internet :-/
yes because it's been confirmed that the next Box
which hasn't even been announced yet
is worthless without an internet connection... whooo I am sure glad I read this thread and eagerly await fans "warning" their friends and family (and random customers in game stores) for years to come
even after it is proven false.
 

Marty Chinn

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Jun 6, 2004
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How so?

Crysis 3 is around 15gb isn't it?

Just because blurays can have 50 or so GB of data doesn't mean games are going to be anywhere near as big.
Game sizes are going to remain static especially with a 16 fold increase in RAM?

There's absolutely no reason why you'd have to have every single game installed to the HDD at once.
I think it's a bit annoying to have to manage installing and deleting stuff all the time. Installs are a pain unless they're done without your knowledge. PS3 installs were bad enough as is, and installing on the 360 isn't fast either.
 

sangreal

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May 19, 2005
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Unless the size of the HDDs are terabytes, a person is going to run into storage issues.
Why? If the install really is transparent they just need to keep the last X games installed and if you go to play an older title again the worst case would be you need to reinsert the disc. Doesn't seem like a very big issue. No worse than the original xbox which installed every game and didnt give you the benefit of not having to swap discs (assuming that is a benefit here)