• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

VGTech: Watch Dogs Legion 60fps Mode PS5 vs Xbox Series X|S Frame Rate Comparison

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,591
35,004
845
A local pond.



This can only be explained by sub 900p resolutions. Sorry but I never saw such bad artifacts at 1080p.
is that one of the twins from the matrix movies "lollipop_disappointed:
 

just-a-spaz

Member
Mar 16, 2014
843
590
630
And vsync adds input latency..
Okay the thing is, WDL has vsync, but it gets disabled when the action gets heavy, so you’re saying, there’s latency until the frame rate drops and the screen tears? Why would it matter at that point. Just leave vsync on all the time like RE:V
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Aug 28, 2019
7,752
14,432
640
Okay the thing is, WDL has vsync, but it gets disabled when the action gets heavy, so you’re saying, there’s latency until the frame rate drops and the screen tears? Why would it matter at that point. Just leave vsync on all the time like RE:V

I dunno specifically about this game; there is adaptive v-sync w/ only turns on when the framerate gets lower than refresh rate, but it isn't perfect, and can take a second to kick in.

Could be what is happening.

Not all games have the same base control input response; depends on all kinds of internal rendering aspects how often they are sampling the control input and how quickly they can respond to it. Depends on engine, how complex the game is, etc.

Some games naturally also feel fine w/ a bit of latency, while others don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rea

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
3,107
10,129
735
India
Why? It is "next-gen" console after all. There is no need ignore it in game comparisons. Then go to DF, NXG and VGTech and say to them to not include XSS in comparison. After all, MS said that difference in games between the XSS and X will be only in resolution. Let us see was MS right in that. So far, no.
You're replying to someone who made this cringe af thread and literally takes his Series S to his bed... :messenger_tears_of_joy:


No, seriously...
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
6,554
9,976
570
Why? It is "next-gen" console after all. There is no need ignore it in game comparisons. Then go to DF, NXG and VGTech and say to them to not include XSS in comparison. After all, MS said that difference in games between the XSS and X will be only in resolution. Let us see was MS right in that. So far, no.

uhm, for the most part it is only a resolution difference tho... it is still weird that DMC5 for example didn't have an RT mode on Series S, because it clearly can handle it as demonstrated by the very game this thread is about.

until now, differences beyond resolution and texture res are usually due to development issues it seems. the system is definitely capable of doing everything the Series X can do.
 

Kangx

Member
Apr 6, 2021
187
380
230
Disagree. I'm not seeing the issues you're speaking of. No spin, just telling it as I see it.
You don't have the say in this, thus your point doesn't stand. Unless you have the the knowledge, the equipments, the games, the experience, and the reputation as VGtech and DF, and you provide your own test to dispute both VGtech and DF.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flutta

Md Ray

Member
Nov 12, 2016
3,107
10,129
735
India
uhm, for the most part it is only a resolution difference tho... it is still weird that DMC5 for example didn't have an RT mode on Series S, because it clearly can handle it as demonstrated by the very game this thread is about.

until now, differences beyond resolution and texture res are usually due to development issues it seems. the system is definitely capable of doing everything the Series X can do.
It's definitely not capable of doing everything the SX can do. There's memory limitation as stated by id Software engine programmers. Remedy Entertainment omitted ray tracing entirely from the Series S version of Control and their reason was again "hardware limitation".

Even in Medium, RT is missing on the S. DF reckons it's due to VRAM.
 
Mar 27, 2020
12,837
34,691
720
Uncharted bunghole
You're replying to someone who made this cringe af thread and literally takes his Series S to his bed... :messenger_tears_of_joy:


No, seriously...

Isn't that a joke thread?

:messenger_fearful:

I really hope he doesn't sleep with his console.

That's almost as bad as someone putting his wallet to sleep.

 
Dec 10, 2020
1,833
3,993
380
uhm, for the most part it is only a resolution difference tho... it is still weird that DMC5 for example didn't have an RT mode on Series S, because it clearly can handle it as demonstrated by the very game this thread is about.

until now, differences beyond resolution and texture res are usually due to development issues it seems. the system is definitely capable of doing everything the Series X can do.

Yeah, in BC games.

Disagree. I'm not seeing the issues you're speaking of. No spin, just telling it as I see it.

You can see it in car sections. I hope you noticing a blurrier road on XSX in the distance :

 
Jan 29, 2019
6,256
6,824
520
I was playing in a few days ago and the quality difference between 30 and 60 fps is H U G E ... it literally looks like generic shit once on 60 fps mode...

Clearly they can do a lot better.... and follow Insomniac's approach for both consoles...


W E A K and a huge letdown...
They should probably have sacrificed more resolution for better FX in perf mode.
Well RTX 3080 in 2020 has 30Teraflops so, depends how will tech develop in next 4 years, its quite possible to have something like RTX 7060 in 2024 with 40TF.


So who knows, nobody even thought we would have 699$ 30tf GPU in 2020.
at this rate the 7060 will have the same price tag as its part number.
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,413
805
40 tflops? We may not even see that in PS6. We're in diminishing returns territory with die shrink and how much performance you can get in console form factor. Most likely you'll get double the performance with Pro consoles (20-24 tflops) and that should be enough for 4K60 and 120fsp at lower resolution.
Yea, I really get annoyed with these over-the-top wishes for future hardware - and all at $500 too. It's one of the main reasons that the console tech thread dragged on forever with completely unrealistic expectations.
 
Last edited:
Oct 24, 2017
781
1,389
410
Well, we all know these systems are capable of so much more. I think I'll just play the remainder of the game at 30fps with RT, it just looks so much better this way.
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
4,383
12,985
690
I am curious though, as to why, in this case, performance seems a little more solid on PS5, albeit at cost of native resolution (Both are upscaling anyways right?). The XSX is more than capable, is there some type of rule that says "Go for highest resolution first" over anything else on the XSX? I would think you'd want to balance resolution/performance. But, I watched the video, and I can't really tell the different all that easily upfront. I've noticed this exact same result in several other 3rd party titles.
It's the tools. People love memeing about it but it's the only reason. Early cross gen games built on the new Xbox GDK are having some issues. It's also the reason why Series games struggle with AF sometimes. There's no technical reason the XSX shouldn't have perfect AF, yet here we are. It's gonna get better soon. The GPU compiler has had a lot of work done since launch already.
 

vaibhavpisal

Member
Jun 10, 2019
1,633
2,336
455
Why? It is "next-gen" console after all. There is no need ignore it in game comparisons. Then go to DF, NXG and VGTech and say to them to not include XSS in comparison. After all, MS said that difference in games between the XSS and X will be only in resolution. Let us see was MS right in that. So far, no.

Compare all you want. But warring and comparing are two different things.

People look for chinks in the armour while warring.

Well, Series S doesn't wear an armour at all. Cause it's not here for war.

The very notion of holding it's sub 1080p resolution against it is outdated. It belongs to PS4 / XBOne era.

This generation is all about 60fps, good upscaling to desired resolutions from variable resolution image. We even have games with 1080p base image upscaled to 4k and look good (Returnal).

As for doing everything that series x does ? Isn't it 1/3 the power? As long as it makes sensible sacrifices (like ray tracing in most games currently) and image looks sharp (it does on 1080p), it's working well.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,996
12,800
2,110
Series X CPU: 3.6 GHz (w/ SMT) - 3.8GHz Custom Zen 2 (constant)

Series S CPU: 3.4 GHz (w/ SMT) - 3.6GHz Custom Zen 2 (constant)

PS5 CPU: 3.5GHz (w/ SMT) Custom Zen 2 (variable)

The PS5 does not have a CPU edge in any instance.
On the XSX|S side, take 200 MHz off if you enable Hyper Threading (we are back to the old pre-launch monster specs like gloating eh? Making a big deal of constant vs variable and omitting the HT/SMT clockspeed difference?), take a few percent difference off because the XSX|S run games in a fully virtualised environment, take a few percent off as I/O still taxes the CPU a bit more (1/10th if a core or so, optimistic or realistic that it was as an estimate).

For exclusive titles the base on one is similar to lower, but not to make a big difference.
 
Last edited:

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,966
5,081
1,635
Compare all you want. But warring and comparing are two different things.

People look for chinks in the armour while warring.

Well, Series S doesn't wear an armour at all. Cause it's not here for war.

The very notion of holding it's sub 1080p resolution against it is outdated. It belongs to PS4 / XBOne era.

This generation is all about 60fps, good upscaling to desired resolutions from variable resolution image. We even have games with 1080p base image upscaled to 4k and look good (Returnal).

As for doing everything that series x does ? Isn't it 1/3 the power? As long as it makes sensible sacrifices (like ray tracing in most games currently) and image looks sharp (it does on 1080p), it's working well.
People will dump on anything MS does. The system is the cheapest current gen console on the market and you can't get more performance for less.

The XSS needs to lean on SFS and VA to address some of the RAM limitations. When it is running cross gen titles it is pretty much just brute forcing those titles to get 60 fps. Since frame rate is king according to some here it is doing what it is supposed to be doing. It is not designed to run games at 4k and it requires more optimization if you aren't going to use its RAM saving features. When we get out of the cross gen period we'll see what it is capable of. Look to MS for titles that show what the system can do.
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
4,383
12,985
690
People will dump on anything MS does. The system is the cheapest current gen console on the market and you can't get more performance for less.

The XSS needs to lean on SFS and VA to address some of the RAM limitations. When it is running cross gen titles it is pretty much just brute forcing those titles to get 60 fps. Since frame rate is king according to some here it is doing what it is supposed to be doing. It is not designed to run games at 4k and it requires more optimization if you aren't going to use its RAM saving features. When we get out of the cross gen period we'll see what it is capable of. Look to MS for titles that show what the system can do.
Hivebusters shows what the XSS can do in capable hands. Pushes up to 1440p60 and looks gorgeous.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,966
5,081
1,635
Hivebusters shows what the XSS can do in capable hands. Pushes up to 1440p60 and looks gorgeous.
I wonder why the detractors don't use that title to gage what the console can do? Why focus on a launch Ubisoft title that despite it not having the best graphics has the best frame rate? It's very interesting.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,996
12,800
2,110
People will dump on anything MS does. The system is the cheapest current gen console on the market and you can't get more performance for less.
Always the MS victim card. No, people do not dump on the XSX as it is a great console.
The only pushback you hear is when some people try it to push it as God level HW and console war around the forum gloating and unfairly representing its competition to make the gap appear as giant as they feel it has to be… only then people will go into compromises both HW are doing and in comparative analysis about each architecture Pros and Cons… months later seeing how close both consoles are in third party titles there is some vindication in that.

It is not as a PS5 owner that I have an issue with the XSS, but as an XSX one: apparently being part of the club does not mean enjoying a console and its games, but agreeing to and praising its business strategy 🤷‍♂️.

I will keep saying it, as a console user who likes to keep the console model going, I think a digital only XSX with half the storage (512 GB instead of 1 TB) could have sold for $349-399 and would have made the situation better for a lot of gamers. Apparently given Riky’s analysis having the XSS version is the reason many Xbox Series games are much bigger than their PS5 equivalents so if we only had the regular XSX and a half storage cheaper digital only XSX games would be smaller too apparently. This is on top of making XSX support more complex (you need to target two HW profiles not one).

Yet another reason XSS is a solution that looked good to MS (before PS5 DE was announced), but does not look nor help XSX users.

Gears 5 Hivebusters is a first party cross gen title (not sure why people expect the XSS to fare that much better if XSX is pushed without having to worry about Xbox One and much of its GPU is used for Resolution independent processing… but 🤷‍♂️) that targets between 1080p and 1440p at stable 60 FPS so ✅, but even there you have graphical settings differences (reflections toned down in anything but the XSX version).
 
Last edited:

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,246
3,274
375
the delirium of some users is reaching paradoxical limits... 0.03% "more solid perfomance" ahhaahaha I do not know whether to laugh or cry.
 

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
3,213
5,484
520
I still will take better resolution that you always notice than a few frame dips that last milliseconds at times. It always confuses me when people opt for an extra frame or two at random times versus a higher resolution you see at all times.
Good luck to find the better resolution on series X in this game. I mean yeah statically the difference seems notable. But when you look into in the game no way you will notice the more native pixels with this DRS. On the other side tearing is quite apparent. Wouldn't be better to have less tearing than some extra native pixels? Just to say
 
Last edited:
  • Fire
  • LOL
Reactions: luca_29_bg and Riky

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,996
12,800
2,110
It's the tools. People love memeing about it but it's the only reason. Early cross gen games built on the new Xbox GDK are having some issues. It's also the reason why Series games struggle with AF sometimes. There's no technical reason the XSX shouldn't have perfect AF, yet here we are. It's gonna get better soon. The GPU compiler has had a lot of work done since launch already.
XSX is just getting a bit of the same shit PS4 got for AF being worse than on Xbox One in some third party games. In both cases it is a mix of tools and performance settings (not sure why people think AF has to be free on console where every MB/s of bandwidth and KB in texture caches matters and is optimised for).
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
4,383
12,985
690
XSX is just getting a bit of the same shit PS4 got for AF being worse than on Xbox One in some third party games. In both cases it is a mix of tools and performance settings (not sure why people think AF has to be free on console where every MB/s of bandwidth and KB in texture caches matters and is optimised for).
AF is free now. It hasn't been before, but it is now. 10 year old graphics cards can do 16xAF with zero notable performance impact.

With this game, we even know that the AF settings are exactly the same between both XSX and PS5, since all the settings are hidden in the PC config file. It's 100% a GDK issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky
Jan 3, 2021
289
446
260
Yeah, even on a 6-7 yo GTX 970 there was headroom for higher than 1440p in some sections w/ dynamic res active.
it is true that gears 5 has excellent optimization, so it's not surprising that all systems run it fine, same for forza horizon 4

xbox studios might fine tune their own games to hit 1080p 60/4k 60 for both s and x consoles respectively, but multiplatform games clearly target 1300/1440p 60 fps for ps5/xbox. in this scenario, series s never gets away with 1080p 60 fps

at some point, i'm fairly certain xbox studios will also target 1440p 60 fps for the big ones. otherwise, we will be having games that look like gears 5 (let's be honest, its not that impressive graphically) for the entirety of generation (even the last of us 1 remaster looks leaps and bounds better than gears 5 and that's telling a lot, since that game was practically designed to run on a ps3). i will give forza horion 4 props though
 
Last edited:

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,996
12,800
2,110
AF is free now. It hasn't been before, but it is now. 10 year old graphics cards can do 16xAF with zero notable performance impact.
Nothing is free, hidden by other costs sometimes on PC’s driving insane resolutions and FPS’s, but it is still not free. Your texture units are essentially your load and store units for your compute code and getting them to spend more time on one thing (fetching 8x or more texture samples as inputs is extra time some devs could find a use case that spends it elsewhere).

With this game, we even know that the AF settings are exactly the same between both XSX and PS5, since all the settings are hidden in the PC config file. It's 100% a GDK issue.
Fine, it is maybe a tools issue then… still not sure why the inventors of DirectX and the ones that architected this change are getting a bit of a free pass on their tools from their fans for so long after launch, but hey PS5 fans gloss on some Sony stuff too… 🤷‍♂️.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,996
12,800
2,110
You can't possibly calculate that accurately knowing that the clock speeds are variable.

The PS5 is not running at peak GPU performance 100% of the time.
It is running at peak performance when needed by the code with very minor very quickly variations that beyond F.U.D. concern and rumours have yet to be noticed and mentioned negatively by any dev.
PS5’s unlocked clockspeed and smartshift tech have been discussed ad nauseam.
 

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
4,383
12,985
690
Nothing is free, hidden by other costs sometimes on PC’s driving insane resolutions and FPS’s, but it is still not free. Your texture units are essentially your load and store units for your compute code and getting them to spend more time on one thing (fetching 8x or more texture samples as inputs is extra time some devs could find a use case that spends it elsewhere).
It's not literally free of course, but in practice, we reached a point where the amount of GPU time used by AF is so miniscule that it doesn't really matter much.
Fine, it is maybe a tools issue then… still not sure why the inventors of DirectX and the ones that architected this change are getting a bit of a free pass on their tools from their fans for so long after launch, but hey PS5 fans gloss on some Sony stuff too… 🤷‍♂️.
I give them a pass because I know it's gonna get fixed soon. It's also not a huge deal, AF is fine in the vast majority of games.
 

phil_t98

Member
Oct 10, 2014
4,609
4,747
620
Yeah, in BC games.



You can see it in car sections. I hope you noticing a blurrier road on XSX in the distance :


Cant see any difference if am honest, only thing i notice is the ps5 version the double yellow lines get jaggerdy after the puddle where the xboxs doesnt
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky

Ywap

Member
Aug 12, 2006
526
133
1,310
Sorry for going a bit off-topic but is the game still stuttering like crazy on PC after all the patches?
 

MonarchJT

Member
Sep 25, 2020
2,246
3,274
375
I no longer understand the meaning of comparisons threads if such a blatant trolling is allowed Mod of War Mod of War .. though even when a console is objectively pushing far less pixel at the same perfomance (0.03% and one also have VRR that the other console dosnt) doing so creates a precedent for future comparisons so it becomes impossible to understand something.
I understand that not having the edge on performance can hurt someone's feelings but so these threads lose their value completely. I don't know how much post I read with "another PS5 win" bs trolling in
 
Last edited:

vaibhavpisal

Member
Jun 10, 2019
1,633
2,336
455
You're replying to someone who made this cringe af thread and literally takes his Series S to his bed... :messenger_tears_of_joy:


No, seriously...


 

DenchDeckard

Member
Feb 28, 2021
1,291
2,116
320
Let's be honest here. whichever game version has tearing, both of them in this case. The console that offers VRR for users is the best choice.

But I refuse to get into the weeds over another open world ubisoft game...and a launch title for that matter. Its 7 months from launch now and all we are arguing about is the slightest frame rate differences and average resolution differences.

Both seem fine if you want to play the game.

If i was going to play this game I would obviously choose the xbox version, thanks to the higher resolution and VRR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riky
Dec 10, 2020
1,833
3,993
380
Cant see any difference if am honest, only thing i notice is the ps5 version the double yellow lines get jaggerdy after the puddle where the xboxs doesnt

No need to spin it. Also, you have it on first page too. Btw. of course you don't see jaggy double yellow linest because it is blurred on XSX version.


I no longer understand the meaning of comparisons threads if such a blatant trolling is allowed Mod of War Mod of War .. though even when a console is objectively pushing far less pixel at the same perfomance (0.03% and one also have VRR that the other console dosnt) doing so creates a precedent for future comparisons so it becomes impossible to understand something.
I understand that not having the edge on performance can hurt someone's feelings but so these threads lose their value completely. I don't know how much post I read with "another PS5 win" bs trolling in

Looks who's talking. What a hypocrite!!

Cut the crap with VRR. NXGamer, Digital Foundry and VGTech does not analyzing games and do a comparisons with VRR. They are analyzing games in pure state what they are. Surely i won't say when VRR support arrived on PS5, if some game on PS5 has a worse fps in comparison, but it has a VRR then bad fps doesn't matter. If it has worse fps, then it has. EOD
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: Md Ray and dcmk7