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Vgtech's Assassin's Creed Valhalla Comparison PS5 vs XSX

bargeparty

Member
Isn't Spiderman also Dynamic 4K? Not sure what the exact resolution is but it could be close to 1440P-1600P.

They will get better at these techniques but to me Ray Tracing has to fit the design of the game.

I honestly don't have a problem with 30 fps at all...weren't you saying a few months ago you'd rather devs create better visuals at like 1400p/30 like the UE5 demo?

Just sounds like you want to have everything when concessions would need to be made even with a 40% more powerful console....and yes the budget would have increased enough to where it's not really feasible for a mainstream console. I don't have a problem with paying 599 and gladly would, but the console would not be as successful and the software support wouldn't be as strong as a result.

I do think that if we get next-gen refreshes, then enhanced Ray Tracing will probably be a big deal. That and maybe a version of AMDs DLSS

I believe it's only dynamic in 60fps mode
 

thelastword

Banned
Yep, there's 64 ROPs in PS4 Pro's GPU compared to 32 ROPs in One X's GPU therefore Pro's GPU is capable of handling 55% more pixel fillrate than One X.

And in AC Valhalla you can see the frame-rate on PS4 Pro in that NPC section is locked 30fps while One X has fps dips + screen tearing.

Timestamped

PRO has won so many performance analyses versus XBONEX, right now it is the norm...Better performance in towns, more stable performance during combat, the whole nine yards......You remember every open world game that was badly optimized or was parite'd for XBONES vs PS4......DF said it was the CPU. AC Unity, was proven wrong, Far Cry 4 was proven wrong by Nxgamer, GTA 5 was patched and proven wrong.....In all these scenarios, PS4's CPU never got patched, the code was just not optimized for PS...

People talk about Ubisoft, oh it's ubisoft selling out? To Whom? Ubisoft and MS have been tight for ages...You remember all these AC games on XBOX 360, you remember all these Ubisoft games that could be 1080p on PS4 remained at same rez with the XBONEX version. You remember parite, eqalite from that Ubi dev.....Who was on MS's stage when they were trying to push XBONEX in 2017, Ubisoft, saying AC Origins and Odyssey would be 4k....

Who is with MS yet again, Ubisoft with their marketing. Ubisoft is not trying to undersell Series X. If anything I think PS5 performance and visuals could be even better than what it is.......I always hear people say stuff like that, but Ubi games have always pushed XBOX....People forget Splinter Cell, AC on the 360 etc etc.....And crazy enough, they are trying the same spiel with Capcom....SF4 was best on XBOX, so was UVMC3, all the lost planet games.....RER2 was a shitshow on a more powerful PS4 at the same resolution as XBONES and people are trying to pretend Ubisoft and Capcom are gimping the XBOX versions, nothing could be more wrong....People forget Black Flag was the same rez on PS4 as the XBONE version....There is a long list from Ubi and Capcom....If these games are performing better on PS, it's only because Sony's hardware is that good. Most of Capcom's games run better on PRO because PRO was that good...because PS4 vanilla is that good and so is PS5......Capcom has never really favored PS, people forgot RE4 and myriad of titles that went straight to gamecube......IF you tell me Square loves PS fine, but these two companies are only in it for where their bread is buttered, so if PS finances SF when they were in a hole fine, but if it was up them PS would not be their first choice...

does not seem to be a fair comparison if the resolutions are not the same. look at the video description:

"Xbox One X uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 3840x2160 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 2432x1368. Native resolution pixel counts near 3093x1740 seem to be common on Xbox One X.
PS4 Pro uses a dynamic resolution with the highest native resolution found being 2560x1440 and the lowest native resolution found being approximately 1824x1026. Native resolution pixel counts near 2304x1296 seem to be common on PS4 Pro. PS4 Pro down samples from this resolution when outputting at 1080p with forced supersampling disabled."
That's like saying a PS4 should not be compared to an XBONE, these were unfair right? because PS4 won over XBONE in resolution+effects+framerate combined.......XBONEX has not managed to do that, if they try a higher rez, their framerates can't be sustained and exceed that of the PRO at a lower resolution....PS4 not only did that 99% of the time over the XBONE, but in some cases, PS4 was 1080p whilst XBONE was 720p and easily took pole position in framerate and effects. Just like Series X, you can't speak a mean "true 4k, no compromises, no upscaling like the other guys are doing", when you can't sustain even dynamic resolution without tearing like a hole receiving too much girth and you can't sustain your framerates even then......Same with Series X, most powerful console ever built.....People don't care about words, they care about performance.....Talking a mean pipe game is completely different to laying a mean pipe game.... They are not the same, and the receiver, I mean the customer knows, they would know...
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Raytracing performance scaling is not necessarily the same as traditional rasterization. If you watched DF's analysis on the raytracing performance budget, you'd notice that a large portion of the required time is not resolution related.
No, it is. i have been playing ray traced games for two years now and the scaling is the same as traditional rasterization. i lose half the frames when i turn on ray tracing and then get those frames back when i halve the resolution.
 

inflation

Member
No, it is. i have been playing ray traced games for two years now and the scaling is the same as traditional rasterization. i lose half the frames when i turn on ray tracing and then get those frames back when i halve the resolution.
So you are familiar with AMD's raytracing?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
So you are familiar with AMD's raytracing?
i am now and yes, its trash compared to the the rtx tracing. a GPU that trade blows with the 2080 in standard rasterization turns into a GPU thats worse than a 2060 super. its trash.
 

DJTaurus

Member
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg
 

mhirano

Member
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg
I mean, this is a little hard to believe.
I can't see Xbox Series tools being too different from Xbox One Tools. Both are Custom Windows/DX12. I would expect Sony struggling with a new low level API for the PS5 but that doesn't look like that either.
Maybe the Xbox Series is a brute force aproach (and the PS5 a smart one) to the very same results.
 

onQ123

Member
PRO has won so many performance analyses versus XBONEX, right now it is the norm...Better performance in towns, more stable performance during combat, the whole nine yards......You remember every open world game that was badly optimized or was parite'd for XBONES vs PS4......DF said it was the CPU. AC Unity, was proven wrong, Far Cry 4 was proven wrong by Nxgamer, GTA 5 was patched and proven wrong.....In all these scenarios, PS4's CPU never got patched, the code was just not optimized for PS...

People talk about Ubisoft, oh it's ubisoft selling out? To Whom? Ubisoft and MS have been tight for ages...You remember all these AC games on XBOX 360, you remember all these Ubisoft games that could be 1080p on PS4 remained at same rez with the XBONEX version. You remember parite, eqalite from that Ubi dev.....Who was on MS's stage when they were trying to push XBONEX in 2017, Ubisoft, saying AC Origins and Odyssey would be 4k....

Who is with MS yet again, Ubisoft with their marketing. Ubisoft is not trying to undersell Series X. If anything I think PS5 performance and visuals could be even better than what it is.......I always hear people say stuff like that, but Ubi games have always pushed XBOX....People forget Splinter Cell, AC on the 360 etc etc.....And crazy enough, they are trying the same spiel with Capcom....SF4 was best on XBOX, so was UVMC3, all the lost planet games.....RER2 was a shitshow on a more powerful PS4 at the same resolution as XBONES and people are trying to pretend Ubisoft and Capcom are gimping the XBOX versions, nothing could be more wrong....People forget Black Flag was the same rez on PS4 as the XBONE version....There is a long list from Ubi and Capcom....If these games are performing better on PS, it's only because Sony's hardware is that good. Most of Capcom's games run better on PRO because PRO was that good...because PS4 vanilla is that good and so is PS5......Capcom has never really favored PS, people forgot RE4 and myriad of titles that went straight to gamecube......IF you tell me Square loves PS fine, but these two companies are only in it for where their bread is buttered, so if PS finances SF when they were in a hole fine, but if it was up them PS would not be their first choice...


That's like saying a PS4 should not be compared to an XBONE, these were unfair right? because PS4 won over XBONE in resolution+effects+framerate combined.......XBONEX has not managed to do that, if they try a higher rez, their framerates can't be sustained and exceed that of the PRO at a lower resolution....PS4 not only did that 99% of the time over the XBONE, but in some cases, PS4 was 1080p whilst XBONE was 720p and easily took pole position in framerate and effects. Just like Series X, you can't speak a mean "true 4k, no compromises, no upscaling like the other guys are doing", when you can't sustain even dynamic resolution without tearing like a hole receiving too much girth and you can't sustain your framerates even then......Same with Series X, most powerful console ever built.....People don't care about words, they care about performance.....Talking a mean pipe game is completely different to laying a mean pipe game.... They are not the same, and the receiver, I mean the customer knows, they would know...

If PS4 pro wasn't limited by RAM bandwidth when using fp16 it would have been a head in a lot more games.
 

inflation

Member
I mean, this is a little hard to believe.
I can't see Xbox Series tools being too different from Xbox One Tools. Both are Custom Windows/DX12. I would expect Sony struggling with a new low level API for the PS5 but that doesn't look like that either.
Maybe the Xbox Series is a brute force aproach (and the PS5 a smart one) to the very same results.
As for PS5, if you are not using the new features, the old reliable APIs are still there. Cross-gen games in a year or two won't fully utilized them for both platforms.
 

onQ123

Member
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg

While the devkits might be behind PS5 still have better specs for straight forward rendering & will come out on top when games favor the PS5 specs which is most likely to happen more as devs move into next generation games
 
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg
That poor guy who uses dx12 as a reason why series X should perform better than it does... Richard tells him that tools (i.e.: direct x and other software) are part of the problem.

I would not argue that the tools are mature on the series X, but we already went through the tools excuse with MS and that proved to be either lies or pr/marketing being let off their leash.

So if performance was your reason to want a series X, it doesn't look good so far, and given how to these things went in the past I would not bet that the relative performance difference between the ps5 and series X will change much over the generation.

Edit: there are examples where the tools made a world of difference for the console that they were targeting, PS3, PS2, Sega Saturn...the reason is that these systems had some pretty exotic architecture in their days and it really took a while to get a hang of it. The series X has an existing OS, existing libraries, and a very familiar hardware architecture underneath it (90% same as ps5's)... So I would say that if the series X improves significantly, then chances are that the ps5 will just as much.
 
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Lysandros

Member
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg
It's disappointing to see that John has a lower esteem for the PS5 hardware. So he expected/expects XSX to outperform PS5 significantly just like Richard and Alex. I thought he had a deeper technical insight than that. API's can be a 'part' of the situation but definitely not 'Tools. That's it.' Very narrow minded comment.
 

Fake

Member
People need to be extra blind for hyping an API that had a long way of problems on PC an advance.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I was just having fun with friends yesterday when I remembered we not get a new inside info from the developer Odium about everything being exactly the opposite of what he said lol

Where is the Gavin or what he calls him on Twitter?

We need some new fun comments... it is weird he being so silent.

Edit - I found his account.

Gavin Stevens Gavin Stevens
 
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FALCON_KICK

Member
Posters here might be dissing the results of Valhalla as being APIs being too late and bad optimizations by Ubisoft but Black Flag benchmarks on Xbox One vs PS4 was a clear indicator about the power differential between the 2 consoles then.

Didn't Microsoft drop the support for Kinect on Xbox One within a year so it could keep up with PS4 in performance? Some of the demanding games on Xbox One at the start of the gen were in 720p.
 
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Invalid GR

Member
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg
It's hard to believe that a console shown earlier than the PS5 has an SDK that isn't ready after launch. Even if that is true the theoretical performance difference should have made up for the immature dev tools. There is something strange going on. Either DX12 is a serious resource hog or those CU's performance scale that much better at higher clocks.
 

Armorian

Banned
It's hard to believe that a console shown earlier than the PS5 has an SDK that isn't ready after launch. Even if that is true the theoretical performance difference should have made up for the immature dev tools. There is something strange going on. Either DX12 is a serious resource hog or those CU's performance scale that much better at higher clocks.

Or it's the amount of cores that scales poorly, like Ampere.

Dev tools excuse sound like bullshit to me, even PC version od DX11/12 should give them performance - this console is made up from PC parts.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Or it's the amount of cores that scales poorly, like Ampere.

Dev tools excuse sound like bullshit to me, even PC version od DX11/12 should give them performance - this console is made up from PC parts.
It is easier to them believe in tools/api issues than believe in the removal of overhead and bootlenecks that Cerny worked with PS5.

If you listen Cerny you will see how focused in extract the best of the hardware he was.

DX will never do that.
 
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It's hard to believe that a console shown earlier than the PS5 has an SDK that isn't ready after launch. Even if that is true the theoretical performance difference should have made up for the immature dev tools. There is something strange going on. Either DX12 is a serious resource hog or those CU's performance scale that much better at higher clocks.

Good point.

Could it be possible that someone is spreading rumors about the dev kits having issues when that isn't the case?

I mean that's definitely a possibility and we had people spread fake rumors before to damage control a system.
 
Phil had an XSX in his house at Xmas last year.

Someone is telling porkies.....

Just look at the rumors we had over the past year.

In the beginning the PS5 was supposed to be an extremely underpowered system with a ton of issues.

Fast forward to today and there's rumors that dev kits are a problem for XSX devs which is why the massive power difference isn't shown yet.

Doesn't this seem a bit odd?
 

Yams

Member
Just look at the rumors we had over the past year.

In the beginning the PS5 was supposed to be an extremely underpowered system with a ton of issues.

Fast forward to today and there's rumors that dev kits are a problem for XSX devs which is why the massive power difference isn't shown yet.

Doesn't this seem a bit odd?

It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. I'm almost certain we heard that the dev kits were behind on the Xbox months before launch. Or at the very least, that some dev's didn't receive dev kits until late in development.
 
It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility. I'm almost certain we heard that the dev kits were behind on the Xbox months before launch. Or at the very least, that some dev's didn't receive dev kits until late in development.

But didn't devs receive the kits late for the 360 and everything turned out fine?
 
I'm not sure. Even if that were true, the PS3 was notoriously difficult to develop for, so it might have been even further behind than the 360.

Cell was the main reason why the PS3 was so hard to make games for. In addition to that you had that strange ram configuration as well. I honestly don't see the XSX having similar issues due to the hardware.
 

ZehDon

Member
I mean, this is a little hard to believe.
I can't see Xbox Series tools being too different from Xbox One Tools. Both are Custom Windows/DX12. I would expect Sony struggling with a new low level API for the PS5 but that doesn't look like that either.
Maybe the Xbox Series is a brute force aproach (and the PS5 a smart one) to the very same results.
Rejecting something that has been stated by numerous industry sources, to substitute a fantasy of your own, isn't a great approach on technical matters. Why exactly is it hard to believe? If you've ever worked with new versions of any of Microsoft's tools across any industry, you'll know the general rule of thumb is always "wait for the first service pack". The scenario I've seen described seems to fit Microsoft's MO to a T, frankly.
 

Yams

Member
Cell was the main reason why the PS3 was so hard to make games for. In addition to that you had that strange ram configuration as well. I honestly don't see the XSX having similar issues due to the hardware.

Yeah, that's what I meant by being "further behind." It took a while for developers to figure it out.
 
Yeah, that's what I meant by being "further behind." It took a while for developers to figure it out.

The hardware itself or the dev kits?

You can have hardware that's easy to make games for but the dev kits make it difficult to optimize for it. At least that's what people are saying if I understand it correctly.
 
lol at the Dev Kits and tools not being ready 😂

Dev kits, Tools, Exclusives... Did anyone actually tell MS they were launching a new console lmao

I bet the Series X has some seriously energy sapping and resource hogging Ad driven OS shit going on in the background. The interface was always junk on the One and filled with ads so I imagine this hasn’t changed much in Series X
 

thelastword

Banned
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg
So when early PS4 games run worse than XBONE games (AC Unity) etc.....It was because the XBONE CPU was stronger, no rationalization on the footprint of the XBOX OS, that it had to run a hypervisor, allocate more CPU and MEM for Kinect, Snap and the 3 pronged OS.......When a real dev weighed in and said the PS4 CPU was actually more performant not just because of the aforementioned, but the fact that MS's API layer drags things down a tonne and was not as low level in efficiency as the PS4 API....

The point is, as a technical individual, this was an easy call. MS needed to upclock their OS to keep up with the CPU speed of PS4 as PS4 CPU calls was not weighed down by so many of MS's software layers....When open world games performed better on PS4, suddenly no word of why the XBOX version was not doing better.....They always seem to isolate a result to prop XBOX and say it's because of inferior PS hardware, but when something is better on PS.........It's always an excuse......Square are lazy devs for FF13, the XBOX tools are not ready, they had no issues with RER2 running 20 frames better on XBONE at the same resolution as PS4 in that faceoff, they deemed it PS4 struggling to run sections with heavy alpha as if PS4's better GPU and bandwidth should struggle more than XBOX at the same resolution at that..

So AC Unity is performing better because of the CPU, but they said nothing on why the resolution of AC unity had to be the same as the PS4 version. They used a marketed Witcher 3 on XBOX which run worse on PS4 and called it a CPU issue on PS4. They tried the same with Far Cry 4, same thing, PS4 having problems handling alpha......Nxgamer shot that down with a clear and precise video....They tried the CPU issue with GTA Remastered, Rockstar later patched in more CPU power to the PS4, that made that game run on par with XBOX whilst speeding through the city....Yet, beyond these games which they decide to start a narrative, pretty much every other open world game run better on PS4. Even on PRO with lower rez, which should not affect the CPU, PRO runs many games including open world games better.......The logic and excuses that DF staff come up with always baffles, because it's too obvious that it's erroneous and extremely defensive when things don't go so right in faceoffs for team green.....They thought this gen was a forgone conclusion with the Series X, Alex et al... have been hyping hardware raytracing, 12tf, vrs, vrr, Direct ML for well over a year now.....Prepare yourself for lots of excuses and ho-hum responses when PS5 wins more faceoffs.....It will be back to "like for like, vrr is a gamechanger, just buy an expensive tv just for XBOX which does not give you better controller response anyway, but we don't care, we just have to protect XBOX's "most powah-ful image".......
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
So when early PS4 games run worse than XBONE games (AC Unity) etc.....It was because the XBONE CPU was stronger, no rationalization on the footprint of the XBOX OS, that it had to run a hypervisor, allocate more CPU and MEM for Kinect, Snap and the 3 pronged OS.......When a real dev weighed in and said the PS4 CPU was actually more performant not just because of the aforementioned, but the fact that MS's API layer drags things down a tonne and was not as low level in efficiency as the PS4 API....

The point is, as a technical individual, this was an easy call. MS needed to upclock their OS to keep up with the CPU speed of PS4 as PS4 CPU calls was not weighed down by so many of MS's software layers....When open world games performed better on PS4, suddenly no word of why the XBOX version was not doing better.....They always seem to isolate a result to prop XBOX and say it's because of inferior PS hardware, but when something is better on PS.........It's always an excuse......Square are lazy devs for FF13, the XBOX tools are not ready, they had no issues with RER2 running 20 frames better on XBONE at the same resolution as PS4 in that faceoff, they deemed it PS4 struggling to run sections with heavy alpha as if PS4's better GPU and bandwidth should struggle more than XBOX at the same resolution at that..

So AC Unity is performing better because of the CPU, but they said nothing on why the resolution of AC unity had to be the same as the PS4 version. They used a marketed Witcher 3 on XBOX which run worse on PS4 and called it a CPU issue on PS4. They tried the same with Far Cry 4, same thing, PS4 having problems handling alpha......Nxgamer shot that down with a clear and precise video....They tried the CPU issue with GTA Remastered, Rockstar later patched in more CPU power to the PS4, that made that game run on par with XBOX whilst speeding through the city....Yet, beyond these games which they decide to start a narrative, pretty much every other open world game run better on PS4. Even on PRO with lower rez, which should not affect the CPU, PRO runs many games including open world games better.......The logic and excuses that DF staff come up with always baffles, because it's too obvious that it's erroneous and extremely defensive when things don't go so right in faceoffs for team green.....They thought this gen was a forgone conclusion with the Series X, Alex et al... have been hyping hardware raytracing, 12tf, vrs, vrr, Direct ML for well over a year now.....Prepare yourself for lots of excuses and ho-hum responses when PS5 wins more faceoffs.....It will be back to "like for like, vrr is a gamechanger, just buy an expensive tv just for XBOX which does not give you better controller response anyway, but we don't care, we just have to protect XBOX's "most powah-ful image".......
.......
 

funcojoe

Member
Or, who fucking cares? Play the game on whatever platform you want and enjoy it? Personally I find it boring and tedious as with every ac, but to each their own.
 
As i said the Xbox dev toolkit is not yet ready.
06-D9-CA64-D297-49-F7-A37-C-383-D7-C1-A7-E90.jpg

I made this prediction, tbh. It's been clear to me since that first video for Project Scarlett (that was just people talking about it) that Microsoft rushed the start of this generation because they didn't want to be PS3, better to launch bad than launch late.
 
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Yams

Member
The hardware itself or the dev kits?

You can have hardware that's easy to make games for but the dev kits make it difficult to optimize for it. At least that's what people are saying if I understand it correctly.

I meant that it may of been true that the 360 dev kits were behind but the problems with the PS3 hardware meant that the 360 still came out ahead at the time. Hopefully I’m being more clear.
 
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geordiemp

Member
I was just having fun with friends yesterday when I remembered we not get a new inside info from the developer Odium about everything being exactly the opposite of what he said lol

Where is the Gavin or what he calls him on Twitter?

We need some new fun comments... it is weird he being so silent.

Edit - I found his account.

Gavin Stevens Gavin Stevens

Please dont, he may come and nobody will protect us from UFOs

 
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