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Vigil in 2012: Wii U "has been on par with what we have with the current generation"
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I'm so excited for E3. I'm real sick of all this speculation.
I think he's kidding. It's your standard "make fun of the argument by saying it's true while also saying stuff that contradicts it right after it" line people like to make around here.
nincompoop
Banned
If people are talking about "how good Wii games look", why should they take into account what the games look like on anybody's setup other than their own? Wii games look godly on my flat screen CRT over component, I can't help it if some schmoe decides to play his upscaled on an inferior LCD screen.
Why should they?
Yes, some HDTV's make Wii games look like sweet butter; but there are also those that makes them look like a smudge on the wall. Not all HDTV's can de-interlace the Wii image well, some are so bad that you can't even see the screen shake in Super Paper Mario (it just looks like a double image).
Not everyone has a good HDTV, so they can't enjoy Wii games properly. That is a problem.
Yep. A friend of mine has some 42 inches LED Samsung, and we use it to play Smash Bros, Mario Party, Metroid Other M, Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword; and they all looked amazing.. Last time checked out Rayman Origins; expecting it to look blurry or "too SD"..but it didn't.
I play mine on a small CRT, so they all look amazing anyway.
What I mean is that Zelda will never manage to offer a truly amazing experience (like it used to) when it's released on a last-gen hardware. Many Nintendo fans bring Super Mario Galaxy as an example to prove that this is wrong. The thing, though, is that Zelda isn't a platformer like Mario where it's all about amazing level-design. In an Action/Adventure there are things, beside gameplay, that are equally important when it comes to the experience.
A Zelda game needs amazing environments, great animation, a dynamic and alive world, it needs to be immersive etc. In order to have these, hardware is very important. All these aspects are going to improve in the next-gen games, just like they always did. Zelda needs to be up-to-date here.
If (once again) Zelda is a whole generation behind the industry standards, it will just feel old and unimpressive in comparison. It’s difficult to immerse yourself in the world of the archaic Skyward Sword after what you have experienced in next-gen games like Uncharted, Assassin’s Creed, Skyrim, Red Dead Redemption etc.
I know that some may not agree with what I'm saying here. That's fine, I'd love to be proven wrong anyway.
Yep. A friend of mine has some 42 inches LED Samsung, and we use it to play Smash Bros, Mario Party, Metroid Other M, Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword; and they all looked amazing.. Last time checked out Rayman Origins; expecting it to look blurry or "too SD"..but it didn't.
I play mine on a small CRT, so they all look amazing anyway.
I don't think you know what the word amazing means
Oh I know...maybe I should add TO ME to everything, just like nincompoop said it looks "godly" ..TO HIM.I don't think you know what the word amazing means
I could go into more detail about how it doesn't look "as amazing" as WipEout HD at 1080p or Gears or War 3; but that's another thing.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I don't consider myself a graphics whore but I know exactly how you feel.
While I understand what you mean, and agree to an extent, I still see no reason why we can't be as impressed with Zelda on the Wii-U as we are with Skyrim on the PS360. They just need to launch a Zelda game before standards change.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I agree with the sentiment but not all the claims.
This is one of the reasons why SS was not hyped up with 'the big games of 2011' by the media or by gamers.
And that will depend on whatever they happen to have in mind, more than the hardware.
For all we know, the Wii U game could be "over the top perspective-dungeon-crawler/hack-and-slash; with mixed with the Four Swords-multiplayer focus"; with the same visuals of the demo from last year.
Back on Gamecube, the hardware was "on par" with the others and back then big-open world games were "the bomb" with GTA breaking sales records and many games aiming to be like or sell as much as GTA.
Yet, the GameCube Zelda games were "normal evolutions" of Ocarina of Time; with different visual styles rather than big-open ended exploration games with lush forests and dark caves (like GTA -well except the dark forests and caves
-, Morrowind, Fable...or even how the Jak and Daxter games did after the first one, on their way to "be like GTA").The hardware could be powerful and on par with whatever the next Xbox or PS4 offer, but that doesn't mean Nintendo's going to follow trends or expectations and makes huge-open ended Zelda games; because of Just Cause, Oblivion, Skyrim, etc..
Boombloxer
Member
Straight-up, it they can offer me a Zelda with God of War/Uncharted-level graphic and animation quality, I'd be down for that--not HD head-rips or art-style, but seeing Hyrule envisioned with actual muscle behind it would have me interested at first glance.
So, a year? It's not really about now so much as later.
I'd say that Wind Waker fit the bill, at least for me. The problem with it was rather on the level-design, not on the technical side. I'm not really convinced by more "realistical" Zeldas, including the recent ones. I would hate something close to Uncharted or God of War, personally.
Yes but, sadly, I can't see that happening.
Indeed.
Wind Waker could have been an amazing game.
Sounds good...
until a character has to speak and a text box pops up.
Press A to continue
I think it's still viable for Nintendo to use text boxes next gen...
Press A to continue
but they'll have to rebrand their games.
Press A to continue
Like "Learning to Read Featuring Link and Zelda".
Press A to continue
One good thing about being on par with the 360 and PS3...
Press A to continue
is that we know it can handle fully voiced games.
loooool WTF?
Let's keep it real here. Wii games look 'godly' on your TV because it's tiny, not because their TV's are inferior ... at least that's the long-pole.
If you magically blew up your TV to the same size ... or sat/stood close enough to the TV so you had the same FOV as most people ... it wouldn't look godly. Would it look better than most peoples' HDTV's? Yes, but it wouldn't actually look good relative to more powerful systems ... let alone 'godly'. The system was outdated at launch, and is appalling at this point in technical terms.
Slowclap.gif...
I think about Skyrim or Infamous or Assassin's Creed where a big part of the immersion is overhearing random conversations from npcs. You can't really do this with the text box.
maquiladora
Member
I really like that. Like in ME3, walking past TV screens in the Citadel, hearing parts of the news broadcast relating to stuff I'd be part of in earlier missions.
Then again, Disaster, Mario Sunshine, Metroid Other M, Xenoblade, Star Fox all have voice acting. So is not like hardware is a limit when it comes to it...neither been from Nintendo.
Heck, Paper Mario games has background conversations with text-bubbles (the ones involving the mafia in the GCN game were quite cool).
Heck, Paper Mario games has background conversations with text-bubbles (the ones involving the mafia in the GCN game were quite cool).
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Okay... where do I begin?
Wind Waker is exactly what you've been asking for. A Nintendo game that uses modern (at its launch) hardware to achieve things they couldn't before. A huge sparse world is Nintendo's attempt at this huge sprawling world you want them to create. Skyward Sword is Nintendo's attempt at making a hugely populated cohesive world.
You're going to get the same limitations you always get in Nintendo games. Even if they jumped a gen or two passed what Sony or MS have released, you'd still get games defined under Nintendo parameters.
And those parameters will likely never include the environmental interactivity of Skyrim, or the large crowds of Assassin's Creed. Skyward Sword is the Nintendo approach to next-gen games. Small, but beautiful intricately designed environments.
skullwolfgp
Neo Member
Sure you can. Yakuza does it to pretty great effect. In fact you can have a crowd of people talking and pick out what each one is saying simultaneously because of it. The speech bubble also shows the direction of the person/people talking.
You know surround sound is pretty good at letting you know what direction sounds are coming from too. Even stereo sound isn't bad at it.
And things like... I donno... watching a characters gestures, like body language or lips moving. They also help to let you know whose speaking.
All that stuff is now possible on a Nintendo console. Now let's see if they use it.
abstract alien
Member
Most games that are fully voiced aren't handled well on 360/PS3, or any other system for that matter. By those standards, there is still a ton of work to do in order to get everyone up to a good standard. For such bad quality, most games would benefit from having a not voiced cast, as there are a lot of games where that is the only real substantial drawback to them.
On a technical level, Wind Waker was excellent. It had a very beautiful and immersive world for the time, the seamless approach of the overworld was awesome and even the facial animations were phenomenal. Everything really added to the experience.
In my opinion, the problem with Wind Waker was in its weak (by the series' standards) dungeons and the fact that it ditched the sandbox-like elements that Majora's Mask introduced to the series. They would fit perfectly in Wind Waker's world. Finally, the overworld should have 2-3 more islands.
Sadly, the game was rushed, Wind Waker could have been excellent.
No it wasn't.
If there's one Zelda game that tried something like this, it was Majora's Mask. And, considering the hardware limitations of the 32-64bit era, what Nintendo managed to achieve on the N64 12 years ago, is simply amazing.
I'm sorry but you're just wrong. You can't live in the past forever. Please join us in the new millennium, you're about 12 years late to the party already.
A Nintendo console has no excuse now not to use this futuristic voice acted game stuff now that it's on par with a 360 and PS3.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I've never actually played Majora's to completion.
I'm just enough of a tech whore that by the time I played it (GCN) it was just about impossible to get through. Low framerates make me feel oogy. 30fps or higher has been the only way I can play my games.
Framerate made the newest Castlevania impossible to play for me.
But as said already, Nintendo has been using voice acting in games...for decades. Even Star Fox 64 had it (in 1997).
That they don't use it for most of their games or at least the "main ones" like Zelda; has nothing to do with technology..or the future.
Believe me, it's worth it.
12 years later, it's still the best game in the series.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
It really isn't.
If I was a teen? It'd probably have been worth it. But for the past 10 or so years I've been getting more and more susceptible to motion sickness. That Castlevania game has a fairly consistent 20fps framerate. Majora's Mask (at least on the Cube) has a fairly inconsistent 15fps framerate.
I was feeling pukey within two minutes of playing Castlevania.
MindCollizion
Member
I think this is nintendos strategy. Arrive late to the game with current tech and correct the mistakes of Sony and MS. By mistakes I refer to pricing and trying to push forward into the next generation without innovating gameplay ideas. Now we get the WiiU tablet to add a new depth of gameplay to games which will be rereleased on Wii-U and everyone will benefit. Not to mention the Nintendo franchises which will be full HD for the first time. Now, MS and Sony want to further expand onto next generation without having done much in terms of benefiting the gamers who will play their games, except for take a substantial amount of their money without providing more than a power hook. It's not about the gamers its about the games appealing to a vast majority of people in order to drive success. It's no wonder Nintendo called it when saying Apple was their top competitor and not Sony or MS. They called it long before anyone realized what it meant.
The question is whether Darksiders II is going to be the new Gun of this generational start, or if the Wii U just can't handle more. Annoying, but hopefully we'll find out more precisely at E3. :/
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/458
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/458
abstract alien
Member
I hope you aren't saying most games actually have great voice acting and dialog. If you are telling me that most games are comparable to the works of ME(which I absolutely hate gameplay wise), Legacy of Kain, Metal Gear, etc...then I don't know what to say. I WISH every game was that good in the sound department, but most of them are horrid beyond measure. I'm not saying nintendo shouldn't do it(they certainly have the funds to do a good job), but that it isn't a necessity, nor is one above the other.
Most 360/PS3 games do not have good voice acting, is really what it boils down to. Most games don't, period. In this industry, game that contain it are still the exception, not a rule.
I couldn't do it either.
You're not the only one since I fully agree.
It's not a generational leap, but it is UE3 after all.
UE4 will set the benchmark of what the next-gen systems can do.
Also in regards to the Wii U power, we've had too many varying sources. Just because a guy from Vigil says that it's only on par with the 360 doesn't mean it will be.
I can totally see it happen, but we'll wait for E3 before jumping to conclusions.
What the hell at this garbage about character gestures "now being possible on Nintendo hardware", they've been doing that since the N64 days. Talk about hyperbole getting in the way of facts.
abstract alien
Member
I'm with you as well. At this point, a game has to be a technical feat(how does this run on this hardware!?), have great animation and art, or have a huge scale in order to get a kick out of me. For standard visuals alone, it would have to pretty much look and animate like Transformers while running at an above average framerate for me to be blown away at what I was controlling. Don't see that happening any time soon.
Hm, you may be right, I haven't touched the N64 or GC versions in ages.
The last time I played Majora's Mask was on an emulator, so I remember it being fine.
There are tons of games in this gen that have great voice acting. Uncharted, Assassin’s Creed, Metal Gear Solid 4, Grand Theft Auto IV, Red Dead Redemption, Mass Effect, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain etc. Even a smaller production like Enslaved had great voice acting.
For a company with the recourses of Nintendo, the inclusion of excellent voice acting shouldn't be a problem.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I understand it's an opinion but your (and Eteric Rice's) opinion is wrong, I'm sorry. Samaritan is definitely a huge generational leap. Maybe you don't like the art style or something but jesus man watch that video again. I'm not going to argue endlessly about it as it would be pointless so that's all I'll say.
I don't think it is/will be. It's just that very few, if any, of their games could benefit from VA that doesn't already have it, and even then not everyone is on the same page about the games that should.
No, he's completely right. Most game voice acting is bad. (This is btw. one of the few things Bioware does remarkably well in the ME series. Especially with femshep)
It is really hard to think about these posts and not just burst out laughing at the stupidity.
EAD Tokyo, Retro, Monolithsoft
Neither of those are second parties.
(Retro is first party and Mistwalker third party.)Nintendo actually release main installments in their major franchises more seldom than most developers.
Haunted
Member
Zelda's UI is pretty bad.
The shop interface in Skyward Sword was a joke. So many unnecessary button prompts, slow moving text etc. A lot of Japanese games have really cumbersome and bad UI design, as if they're stuck a decade back or so. Or maybe I've just become more aware of these issues now, I dunno.
The shop interface in Skyward Sword was a joke. So many unnecessary button prompts, slow moving text etc. A lot of Japanese games have really cumbersome and bad UI design, as if they're stuck a decade back or so. Or maybe I've just become more aware of these issues now, I dunno.
Yeah, I don't understand the "milked" argument myself. Considering that Nintendo has only released (not counting remakes/rereleases):
10 console Marios in 27 years
4 handheld Marios in that same span
7 Mario Karts (9 if you count the arcade releases) in 21 years
9 console Mario Parties in 14 years
3 Smashes in 13 years
9 console Zeldas in 25 years
7 handheld Zeldas in that same span
9 Metroids in 25 years
12 mainline Kirby games in 20 years
Not to mention franchises that haven't gotten an entry since the Gamecube, or franchises that have been seemingly forgotten or obscured.
Yeah, they use the same characters, but this is over the course of 20-30 years. Most Nintendo franchises after the NES only got 1 or 2 games on a platform per generation. Meanwhile, a good chunk of the big time AAA games of today get a game a year. Compare something like COD, which got 8 games in 8 years, or Assassin's Creed which is nearing it's 5th console game since 2007.
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
Truth.
I think the problem is that Nintendo has now gone a whole generation without creating a new "Nintendo IP." Sure, we got the Wii _____ line of games, but that hardly counts as a new character for the company.
When you go so long without creating something new, it's easy to accuse them of milking franchises.
But they did. Well, "they".
Disaster, Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven and a few more.
Others from second/third-parties like Captain Rainbow, Flingsmash, a new entry for Another Code and the reboot of sorts of the Excite-games, and stuff with third-parties like The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Zangeki...
Granted, most stayed in Japan...and that's excluding the DS/3DS and digital games (Rolling Western and Pushmo more recently) and none got sequels (Rhythm did recently on Wii) but well, Kid Icarus' last game was in 1991 and we just got a new game a few days ago (2012); so who knows what will happen with some of those.