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VOEZ is the first Nintendo Switch game to be portable-mode only

jwillenn

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Jan 5, 2011
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I would like to think a mandate from Nintendo would be for touchscreen essential games.
Touchscreen essential games? Is there really such a thing knowing there can be alternatives that allow players to still get most of what the game offers? Sure, you could say this is the optimal way according to THE vision, but you could also confine Street Fighter to a bunch of arcade cabinets. Okay, let's be reasonable here. You could say no fight pads allowed, which also means no handheld mode for Ultra Street Fighter 2.

You could say no "regular controls" for Red Steel 3. You have to experience swinging the sword, swinging the JoyCon. Some of the enemies will be completely invisible. Feel the advanced rumbling to know where your invisible foe is and how you must orient your right JoyCon for defense in order to complete the challenge. Players who mostly game on the go while finding Red Steel 3 interesting will be kind of disappointed. They like the world, sounds, stories, and action (even at different challenge levels based around different input methods), but they can't play it on the go, though they paid $300 for a system that is less powerful than it could be for the sake of such an option...
 
Jul 28, 2014
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Touchscreen essential games? Is there really such a thing knowing there can be alternatives that allow players to still get most of what the game offers? Sure, you could say this is the optimal way according to THE vision, but you could also confine Street Fighter to a bunch of arcade cabinets. Okay, let's be reasonable here. You could say no fight pads allowed, which also means no handheld mode for Ultra Street Fighter 2.
I was more thinking shit like rhythm games or even shit like a more advanced Trauma Center, that require a lot more complex inputs that analog stick twirling and button pressing, like say multi touch and touch movement. Which is what VOEZ is. Which is why it's being played in portable mode only.
 

jts

...hate me...
Apr 29, 2007
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Touchscreen essential games? Is there really such a thing knowing there can be alternatives that allow players to still get most of what the game offers? Sure, you could say this is the optimal way according to THE vision, but you could also confine Street Fighter to a bunch of arcade cabinets. Okay, let's be reasonable here. You could say no fight pads allowed, which also means no handheld mode for Ultra Street Fighter 2.

You could say no "regular controls" for Red Steel 3. You have to experience swinging the sword, swinging the JoyCon. Some of the enemies will be completely invisible. Feel the advanced rumbling to know where your invisible foe is and how you must orient your right JoyCon for defense in order to complete the challenge. Players who mostly game on the go while finding Red Steel 3 interesting will be kind of disappointed. They like the world, sounds, stories, and action (even at different challenge levels based around different input methods), but they can't play it on the go, though they paid $300 for a system that is less powerful than it could be for the sake of such an option...
Thankfully that situation is covered because you can take the Joy-cons out even when the console is portable. There are some games already that do that, like 1-2-Switch. It can't be played with buttons. They can still be both played on the TV and on the go.

Stuck in onde mode only is just touchscreen games.
 

Gleethor

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Feb 3, 2012
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The let them remove the 3D from the last 3DS pokemon.
Right but that was clearly for technical and performance reasons. There is *zero* reason to block a TV mode on a potential Pokemon game for Switch other than spite. Nintendo and TPC know that people want a console Pokemon, but before Switch they didn't want to devote resources to a separate game that couldn't be taken with you, on consoles with lower install bases than their portable counterparts.

The Switch solves this conundrum. It is the successor to the 3DS, therefore TPC will put mainline Pokemon games on it. If the hardware supports TV mode (which it does), there are a million reasons to support it with Pokemon and shout from the rooftops that a real Pokemon game is finally playable on your TV and zero reasons to withhold functionality just because.

Assuming Stars is real (it probably is), that game would not exist on the Switch at all if the hardware didn't have TV mode. That's the whole point. It's *the* reason that Pokemon Stars will be hyped up as a killer app and positioned as a big holiday title despite technically being a 3DS port.
 

jwillenn

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Jan 5, 2011
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Thankfully that situation is covered because you can take the Joy-cons out even when the console is portable. There are some games already that do that, like 1-2-Switch. It can't be played with buttons. They can still be both played on the TV and on the go.

Stuck in onde mode only is just touchscreen games.
There's a difference in "handheld" and "on the go". Red Steel 3, as described above, wouldn't work handheld because handheld mode requires the Switch to be in your hands during play.

The 3 Styles are
TV - Tabletop - Handheld

And since people keep bringing up 1-2 Switch.

1-2 Switch is an anomaly in that it is a Video-Less Game. 1-2 Switch is no more a "TV" mode game than a portable game. For that reason, you could say 1-2 Switch actually embodies the "Switch Promise" perfectly. It is NOT a VOEZ. How are people missing that?
VOEZ is TRULY the first pertaining to the issue at hand.

Edit:
realized I made the mistake of using "on the go" instead of "handheld style" throughout that post you quoted when I was focused on the idea of handheld style being excluded given a game that goes nuts with Point & Motion with no regular control option
meh... back to sleep!
 

jwillenn

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Jan 5, 2011
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DspfwbKh8
What alternative control method do you suggest for this game?
JoyCons
Left = left half of columns
RIght = covers right half of columns

5|4|3|2|1 LeftJC RightJC 1|2|3|4|5

Face Buttons + 1 Shoulder of each JC = 5 Fingers for both JCs

Motion in conjunction with buttons is how you get advanced fingering combinations. We know you can't play a piano on a diamond face, especially while supporting it only with one hand. But, if you can describe the combinations with a unique input combination that uses motion and a single button, simplifying those phases of the challenges involving advanced fingering, then it could work. Example. Instead of tapping 12312351231234 with both JoyCons at the same time. You assign 123 to Tilt or height (according to an initial calibration) + 1 (some button of diamond face).

Then you have the 2nd Shoulder of each JC to modify inputs for additional advanced fingering combinations.
 

LordKano

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Jul 11, 2016
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JoyCons
Left = left half of columns
RIght = covers right half of columns

5|4|3|2|1 LeftJC RightJC 1|2|3|4|5

Face Buttons + 1 Shoulder of each JC = 5 Fingers for both JCs

Motion in conjunction with buttons is how you get advanced fingering combinations. We know you can't play a piano on a diamond face, especially while supporting it only with one hand. But, if you can describe the combinations with a unique input combination that uses motion and a single button, simplifying those phases of the challenges involving advanced fingering, then it could work. Example. Instead of tapping 12312351231234 with both JoyCons at the same time. You assign 123 to Tilt or height (according to an initial calibration) + 1 (some button of diamond face).

Then you have the 2nd Shoulder of each JC to modify inputs for additional advanced fingering combinations.
This sounds unplayable. There's a reason why they didn't do that.
 

ArtHands

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Oct 14, 2012
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JoyCons
Left = left half of columns
RIght = covers right half of columns

5|4|3|2|1 LeftJC RightJC 1|2|3|4|5

Face Buttons + 1 Shoulder of each JC = 5 Fingers for both JCs

Motion in conjunction with buttons is how you get advanced fingering combinations. We know you can't play a piano on a diamond face, especially while supporting it only with one hand. But, if you can describe the combinations with a unique input combination that uses motion and a single button, simplifying those phases of the challenges involving advanced fingering, then it could work. Example. Instead of tapping 12312351231234 with both JoyCons at the same time. You assign 123 to Tilt or height (according to an initial calibration) + 1 (some button of diamond face).

Then you have the 2nd Shoulder of each JC to modify inputs for additional advanced fingering combinations.
That sounds convoluted to the point its unplayable. I hope you are not serious
 

jwillenn

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Jan 5, 2011
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This sounds unplayable. There's a reason why they didn't do that.
I expected this response. I almost didn't share an idea for that very reason. But here's the thing. Videogames are "unplayable" to a lot of people. All of these platinum plays of VOEZ being tossed around to justify a restriction to touch like these performances are going to be common among even folks who've been doing this **** all of their lives... haha!

Man...

The reason they didn't do it is because it is not how they wanted the game to be played, which is fair. Just don't come at me like a gesture + a button can't equal a fingering sequence, call yourself a gamer while calling that unplayable, and expect me to retire in agreement.

.

I think the game looks really fun, by the way! Glad it's coming to Switch!
 

BooJoh

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Oct 24, 2005
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I expected this response. I almost didn't share an idea for that very reason. But here's the thing. Videogames are "unplayable" to a lot of people. All of these platinum plays of VOEZ being tossed around to justify a restriction to touch like these performances are going to be common among even folks who've been doing this **** all of their lives... haha!

Man...

The reason they didn't do it is because it is not how they wanted the game to be played, which is fair. Just don't come at me like a gesture + a button can't equal a fingering sequence, call yourself a gamer while calling that unplayable, and expect me to retire in agreement.

.

I think the game looks really fun, by the way! Glad it's coming to Switch!
FWIW the video I posted was literally the first result in "VOEZ gameplay" so I didn't handpick it for how complicated it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmZRleowoF0

Here we have the 30 second tutorial that the game uses to teach you how to play. There are four actions shown. In gameplay clips you can also see that the bars move such that you have to move your fingers left and right while performing those actions.

The game uses incredibly simple controls but creates depth through complexity. You can't apply that to your suggested control scheme. It would be like learning an instrument before you can even start playing.

Yes, other rhythm games have successfully used buttons. A lot of them have, but something like this or Ouendan would play like a completely different game if forced to use a controller.
 

BooJoh

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Oct 24, 2005
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Now I'm curious about what controls you get to use in handheld mode.
Could be the mentioned smartphone app, or even a separate game mode. I've never played the game though so I really don't know.

It's worth mentioning that Tabletop Mode is just like TV Mode though, so even if it didn't support Handheld Mode, it's still not "dock-only."

The only logical reasons to make a game dock-only is if you need the dock's USB port or the extra power from being docked though.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
Jan 19, 2007
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In addition to touch-only games, handheld-only titles might allow for things like this:
That could also work on the TV. The gyros are in the Joycons, so you don't lose that input when the system is docked. You could just emulate the screen tilting when in TV mode by literally just rotating what is displayed.
 
It has Nintendo's first ever capacitive multitouch screen. How did anyone ever think there would not be handheld-only games? How would that even make sense?

The real question remains: will docked-only games be allowed? I'm gonna say absolutely, since it's not in Nintendo's nature to mandate flagship functionality. See: Wii U games that don't make use of GamePad functionality, 2D games on 3DS, and games that require the Classic controller on Wii.

Some devs are definitely going to make games that push the hardware in docked mode and won't gracefully scale in handheld.

Also, regarding GameFreak, they'll do whatever the fuck they want, Nintendo won't bar them. I'd be incredibly surprised if they only supported handheld mode though. They may not want to develop home-console-specific mainline Pokémon games, but they won't prevent you from playing them on a compatible home console if the option exists. There would be literally 0 reason to do that unless they went all in on mandatory touch screen usage, which is extremely unlikely. There's a huge difference between not developing for home consoles and explicitly disallowing the ability to play on a TV.

It's not like you couldn't play the first three generations of Pokémon games on a TV either.
 

BooJoh

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Oct 24, 2005
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Also, regarding GameFreak, they'll do whatever the fuck they want, Nintendo won't bar them. I'd be incredibly surprised if they only supported handheld mode though. They may not want to develop home-console-specific mainline Pokémon games, but they won't prevent you from playing them on a compatible home console if the option exists. There would be literally 0 reason to do that unless they went all in on mandatory touch screen usage, which is extremely unlikely. There's a huge difference between not developing for home consoles and explicitly disallowing the ability to play on a TV.
Agreed on this. I would imagine it would take more effort to disallow playing docked than to simply have docked mode run at 720p identical to handheld mode, or even 720p with boosted hardware power to reduce frame drops.
 

BooJoh

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Oct 24, 2005
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Looks to be about $20 with 116 songs included for the price. I just tried this out on iOS and while it's no Theatrhythm or Ouendan it still seems pretty good. Not sure how much the music selection would grow on me though. I may grab it sooner or later just to have a nice rhythm game.
 

Deft Beck

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It's funny that the OP's remark of "it's a rhythm game, so a touchscreen only interface makes sense" when historically this is a genre that relied on discrete inputs in fixed positions on physical buttons. Even more funny when you consider that the main gimmick of VOEZ in particular is a shifting note highway. Goes to show how mobile has dominated much of the casual rhythm action market and the implied influence of osu! .

I'll probably buy this game on Switch because my Android tablet has laggy inputs for music games and because the game is cheaper on Switch vs. how it is priced on mobile.
 

Ninja Dom

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Hey, can Snipperclips be played in Portable mode? As far as I know it's a two player only game. If it can't then we'll have one portable only mode game and one Tabletop or TV mode only game.
 

rpmurphy

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Dec 6, 2008
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It's funny that the OP's remark of "it's a rhythm game, so a touchscreen only interface makes sense" when historically this is a genre that relied on discrete inputs in fixed positions on physical buttons. Even more funny when you consider that the main gimmick of VOEZ in particular is a shifting note highway. Goes to show how mobile has dominated much of the casual rhythm action market and the implied influence of osu! .

I'll probably buy this game on Switch because my Android tablet has laggy inputs for music games and because the game is cheaper on Switch vs. how it is priced on mobile.
Haha yeah. Thinking about it, another mobile/arcade rhythm game I hope gets adapted for Switch is Groove Coaster.
 

maniac-kun

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So here is the thing. Why is this even allowed? What if the next mainline Pokemon game is handheld only? I wont buy the system until this issue is resolved. Do we have to wait for emulators to fix Nintendos problems?
 

LordKano

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So here is the thing. Why is this even allowed? What if the next mainline Pokemon game is handheld only? I wont buy the system until this issue is resolved. Do we have to wait for emulators to fix Nintendos problems?
What the fuck are you talking about ?

Hey, can Snipperclips be played in Portable mode? As far as I know it's a two player only game. If it can't then we'll have one portable only mode game and one Tabletop or TV mode only game.
You can play it in solo too.