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Vox: Bernie Sanders outlines his single payer bill

excelsiorlef

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Sep 20, 2014
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ieptbarakat

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Feb 9, 2014
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I love Bernie but outlawing private insurance isn't going to get your bill passed, no matter the good intentions. It'd be better to have people who can afford private insurance be able to buy it but still require them to pay their share of the public insurance he wants everyone to have.
 

badcrumble

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May 12, 2006
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Gosh I can't believe Jonathan Chait has a problem with this.
 

benicillin

Banned
Mar 31, 2012
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I love Bernie but outlawing private insurance isn't going to get your bill passed, no matter the good intentions. It'd be better to have people who can afford private insurance be able to buy it but still require them to pay their share of the 'common' public insurance he wants everyone to have.

He doesn't expect the bill to get passed, it's about presenting ideas and moving the dialogue in a direction thats more favorable to democrats.


(In real politics, you can't answer people's concerns by denying they're concerns.)

Where is this dude's editor?
 
Sep 3, 2015
3,926
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California
Outlawing private insurance? Okie dokie. Why even put that in this bill that won't get anywhere? That will be the talking point from Fox and them. Evil commies wanna outlaw private business. Good job dude.
 

Prax

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Feb 17, 2006
2,915
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It's *super* dumb. Medigap insurance and supplemental insurance on top of Medicare are *super* popular.

This is like the Canadian system where private insurance isn't allowed at all that all my Canadian friends bitch about non-stop.

????????
Canadians do have the option to buy private insurance or have supplemental insurance, often covered by work, that covers beyond what is normally covered by Canadian insurance (hospital essentials and family doctor checkups)... I do not understand this post. lol Maybe your friends are just misinformed?
We also have private clinics so.. ???
 

Maridia

Member
Dec 8, 2005
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Where is this dude's editor?

"They are" works in context.

Also, it's tough for me to believe that there are a bunch of Democrats, who will have to be reelected at some point, who are going to go on record as supporting, and possibly even voting in favor of, outlawing private insurance.
 

zelas

Member
Nov 18, 2014
3,543
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Well now we see why most Dems never backed this. Someday they'll have an electorate like Bernie's that will allow them to do otherwise.
 

ApharmdX

Banned
Aug 20, 2014
3,812
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0
It's *super* dumb. Medigap insurance and supplemental insurance on top of Medicare are *super* popular.

This is like the Canadian system where private insurance isn't allowed at all that all my Canadian friends bitch about non-stop.

The only way it makes sense is as a built-in concession, as one poster suggested. It makes the proposal much less palatable with this part included.
 

fauxtrot

Banned
May 10, 2006
2,436
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You could have just told me this was written by Jonathan Chait so I could have made the sound decision to not even bother with it.
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
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The only way it makes sense is as a built-in concession, as one poster suggested. It makes the proposal much less palatable with this part included.

built in concessions don't really make sense on a bill that everyone knows is DOA anyways
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Feb 4, 2005
43,878
1
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Fighting to not lose has continuously been a shit strategy for Democrats and it's frustrating how they continue to follow the playbook in hopes that one day voters will realize they were right.

priorities in the present under the reality of a Republican Congress and Presidency
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Nov 29, 2006
13,300
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1,305
Outlawing is pretty extreme, but I guess they're going for the go big or go home approach since it's such a long shot as is.
 

teiresias

Member
Jun 11, 2004
17,259
4
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Next Bernie will be suggesting NASA manufacture cell phones and computers and outlaw Apple, Dell, IBM, Lenovo, etc.
 

jakonovski

Member
Feb 11, 2008
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The ugly part is that Bernie is all you have on creating universal health care. No one else will do anything.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Jun 18, 2009
62,408
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"They're going to make your existing insurance illegal" is quite possible the single worst soundbyte that could possibly emerge from this sort of proposal
 

Saint Gregory

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Jan 4, 2006
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This did not need to be a part of this bill.
I'm not sure if that's the best way to address the issue but health insurance shouldn't be a for profit industry. I'm sure there's some way to transition the industry into non-profit without killing the private sector insurance companies.
 

ieptbarakat

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Feb 9, 2014
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He doesn't expect the bill to get passed, it's about presenting ideas and moving the dialogue in a direction thats more favorable to democrats.

I understand that it's purely for discussion purposes, but having that in there seems more likely to have a recoil effect and end the conversation altogether.

But if it's meant to be for haggling purposes, I guess it works.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jun 26, 2007
46,082
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It's also not really clear why private insurance needs to be outlawed.

This did not need to be a part of this bill.

Expect to hear the word Socialism/Socialist a lot in the near future.
Straight up outlawing private insurance is a non-starter.

Outlawing private insurance is a non starter with most of congress, would never get support and it is not a good idea.

I don't get why its in there. Its the one thing that doesn't make any kind of sense

Yep, kills the entire bill that is otherwise pretty decently designed (beyond not knowing how to pay for it, but that can be hashed out later)

LOL at outlawing private insurance. Classic Bernie. Start with a decent idea and then take it to an extreme to make it completely untenable.

I don't get why they'd outlaw private insurance.

Outlawing private insurance is going to really be unpopular.

I love Bernie but outlawing private insurance isn't going to get your bill passed, no matter the good intentions.

Outlawing private insurance? Okie dokie. Why even put that in this bill that won't get anywhere? That will be the talking point from Fox and them. Evil commies wanna outlaw private business. Good job dude.

Outlawing private insurance will never pass.

Regulating private insurance would be a much better idea.

When people don't recognize negotiation leverage even when it's right in front of their faces.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Jun 12, 2004
11,947
0
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This is what Obama should have done. You don't start bargaining with the compromise.

This has no chance to pass or even come to debate, but It's a strategy we should take moving forwards.

Go for Medicare for all, and the compromise might no be so bad.
 

Armaros

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Sep 18, 2013
7,766
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When people don't recognize negotiation leverage even when it's right in front of their faces.

What leverage is there to a easy political position to attack?

'Democrats what to outlaw health insurance in a government takeover' is a position of strength for democrats?
 

kirblar

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Oct 9, 2010
63,315
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When people don't recognize negotiation leverage even when it's right in front of their faces.
If/When we get a DDD setup to pass a bill, we are not negotiating with the majority of the GOP.

"Running it like a business" is not how things work in politics and when passing legislation.
 

brianmcdoogle

Member
Jun 5, 2010
7,052
1
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Gosh I can't believe Jonathan Chait has a problem with this.

You could have just told me this was written by Jonathan Chait so I could have made the sound decision to not even bother with it.
Yeah, he’s not (hot garbage) The Intercept or The Yong Turks but he’s a prolific writer on the left and is offering a critique. Thought it might be of interest to people what a moderate on the left might write about it for a major publication.
 

iammeiam

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Dec 28, 2006
10,664
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This seems like kind of a weird bill? There's some smart stuff in here that speaks to wanting to make it a real possibility (the staggered rollout.) There's some stuff that you add to make it easier to vote for--strip the costs out, as noted, to avoid cosponsors getting tagged for wanting to raise taxes. And then there's the pure ideology stuff which wasn't necessary to make it look real and will do nothing but provide bad soundbites (You like your plan? It's now illegal. Gg)

So I dunno. If the goal is to unify around universal healthcare, and we all know this isn't getting to be a law any time soon, why poison it? Unless outlawing private insurance is just twisting what's really in there.
 

Maridia

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Dec 8, 2005
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When people don't recognize negotiation leverage even when it's right in front of their faces.

Having Democrats go on record as supporting the destruction of a large sector of the economy actually helps Republicans. A huge number of people work for insurance companies. Tens of millions more have stock in insurance companies through their 401k plans. It's absurd.
 

Impeccable

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Feb 18, 2010
11,615
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Interesting.

Love how people on the internet always have these Canadian friends that bitch about our healthcare non-stop. It is like one of the best phantom things to say.
 

Armaros

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Sep 18, 2013
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The house bill did more or less the same thing and we didn't hear much about it.

Did that bill live to see the light of day?

Lots of crazy bills get written and die without ever being heard. 99.9999% of them never get discussed
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,560
2
0
It would be great to outlaw private insurance, but you would need that at the start.

You're better off regulating them to the point where their greed is a crippling force. EmCare should not be a toxic thing in every emergency room they're employed in, for example. Their tactics should be severed via regulations.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/13/16296390/bernie-sanders-democratic-single-payer

Behind closed doors, so second hand accounts, but here it is. There are things I like, like the staggered four year rollout which I think helps fight some of the "counter-inertia" by enrolling large groups at once, and things I don't like like the bizarre idea of actually outlawing private insurance.

Have at it folks

EDIT: Is the full public reveal later today?

he doesn't completely outlaw for profits, for profit hospitals would still exist in the plan unfortunately. But the employer based system and for profit monopoly would be all but dead, which is the most important thing.

you have to realize OP that a HUGE portion of our medical waste right now is in the middleman that is the private insurance monoply. If you cut that out, the government saves tons and can directly donate to healthcare instead of paying the insurance companies to provide spotty and unreliable insurance that they weigh on a scale of how much money they will make.


Anyway, a good first showing IMO, although i am dissapointed Bernie did not use the funding mechanism he had before. there are going to have to be tax increases for people to subsidize this, this is common sense, but you can't shield the neoliberals by not putting your argument face forward because of the kneejerk "RAISING TAXES, IT COST SO MUCH!"

Tax increases will be offset by employers not taking money out of your check and not having to pay any premiums or co pays. this primarily helps the lower classes who would be most affected by high costs of healthcare and puts the bigger share of paying for the plan on the higher classes(in sanders original plan, you were taxed in increments at 250k and above) who can afford the higher tax increase.

in addition to that, the plan itself is replacing our current system, so its not as if the cost is being added onto our current healthcare plan, but merely swapping one out for the other, and the single payer plan is cheaper which would be a net gain of trillions of dollars for the federal government to spend on other programs that people need.

Its freaking simple, by shielding the dems who are scared of right wing talking points or believe them themselves, your weakening the most important part of the debate, and that is standing your ground. You've got to have those charges leveled at you and strike back without hesitation
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jun 26, 2007
46,082
18,938
1,910
Best Coast
Leverage on a bill that has no intention of ever being passed??
Irrelevent
Negotiation leverage is kind of pointless on a bill that's being sent out to die for the sake of political theater.
Irrelevent
What leverage is there to a easy political position to attack?

'Democrats what to outlaw health insurance in a government takeover' is a position of strength for democrats?
That's not the point.
If/When we get a DDD setup to pass a bill, we are not negotiating with the majority of the GOP.

"Running it like a business" is not how things work in politics and when passing legislation.
Well, if most of y'all are clamoring so badly for private insurance to not be outlawed, and the Republicans actually want the same thing as you, then you aren't actually losing anything if you give that up in exchange for other concessions.
 

pigeon

Banned
Feb 14, 2011
19,361
1
0
When people don't recognize negotiation leverage even when it's right in front of their faces.

That's not actually how negotiation works. You don't get brownie points for adopting crazy ideas only to immediately ditch them.

Do you go into salary negotiations by saying your demand is for control of the company, so that you have negotiation leverage when you give it up?
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
525
Burnaby, BC
This is what Obama should have done. You don't start bargaining with the compromise.

This has no chance to pass or even come to debate, but It's a strategy we should take moving forwards.

Go for Medicare for all, and the compromise might no be so bad.


ACA as is was the compromise. The original bill had a public option which actually passed the House (Nice work Pelosi) but got amended out in the Senate to make sure at least some reform would happen
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
Well, if most of y'all are clamoring so badly for private insurance to not be outlawed, and the Republicans actually want the same thing as you, then you aren't actually losing anything if you give that up in exchange for other concessions.
If you have control of congress, you do not need concessions from the other side!

You are trying to reach an agreement within your own. (And we have one, on the public option!)
 

Pilgrimzero

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Jun 23, 2014
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I like the part where Bernie said ex Insurancr Agents weren't allowed to own property and could only wear burlap sacks.
 

ErasureAcer

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
11,303
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0
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This seems like kind of a weird bill? There's some smart stuff in here that speaks to wanting to make it a real possibility (the staggered rollout.) There's some stuff that you add to make it easier to vote for--strip the costs out, as noted, to avoid cosponsors getting tagged for wanting to raise taxes. And then there's the pure ideology stuff which wasn't necessary to make it look real and will do nothing but provide bad soundbites (You like your plan? It's now illegal. Gg)

So I dunno. If the goal is to unify around universal healthcare, and we all know this isn't getting to be a law any time soon, why poison it? Unless outlawing private insurance is just twisting what's really in there.

If you're rich, I'm sure you can find someone to operate on you.

This has always been the plan, eliminate private insurance. You obviously are young or haven't been paying attention. Medicare for All is a government funded, privately delivered system. It cuts out the middleman. There is obvious costs to be saved just from switching from eliminating the scourge of health insurance companies.

Amazing how all these people are talking, live, right now...but no one is watching the stream and hearing what people have to say.