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VR not a focus of Project Scarlett, says Phil Spencer

Bodatan

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A lot of people are triggered by the fact bomb dropped by Phil and Matt about niche product. 😁

Another funny fact.
PSVita sold more than PSVR and the gang.
 
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MacReady13

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brohmbel

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I'm guessing MS (the parent company) has MS's gaming hardware division on a short leash, budget-wise. MS gaming hardware / peripherals didn't sell as well as expected this gen, so MS doesn't want to stray beyond core gaming hardware investment for next gen.

People thinking that MS's VR situation has something to do with the quality / experience of VR itself are missing the above point. Yes, VR is niche right now. And yes, you can have your own little personal opinion on VR one way or the other. MS gaming is avoiding VR not because they dislike it or disagree with the general philosophy of it, but because they don't have extra money to blow on side avenues, unlike Sony.

The people buying MS's company line about VR not being ready yet / not being social are hilarious. It's PR bullshit. And stop celebrating the fact that a corporation is taking away options from you. Stockholm syndrome up in here.
 

gifgaf

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So there is nothing mad about adding vr support to it, they said there is a niche on PC.
Last month, head of Microsoft Flight Simulator Jörg Neumann said that VR hadn't originally been part of the plan, but the reaction to the E3 reveal and the assumption that it would support VR straight away made Asobo Studio and Microsoft reconsider things. In a new interview with Der Standard (cheers, AVSIM), Neumann has now confirmed that it's a "very high" priority for the team.
Big enough to make it a "very high" priority. Im happy with that.
 
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JK-Money

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Good, maybe they can actually focus up and make some good games next generation because this generation was a god damn wash
 
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Elenchus

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The entire debate makes no sense.

Why would a Sony exec. be complaining about MS not investing in VR? If the console VR market is as profitable as he claims, why would he invite competition?

Why would Sony fans be complaining about MS not investing in VR? They are not buying the Scarlett and Sony will offer them the PSVR2 correct?

So what exactly is the issue for the Sony community? It’s weird.

Sounds like maybe the console VR market is not the river of gold coins some claim and that Sony execs are attempting to use media pressure to push MS into the market.

None of the big 3rd party devs are making AAA VR games and it sounds like Sony execs believe that will change if MS makes a headset. No other logical reason for a guy like Yoshida to care whether MS makes a headset or not.

I’m all for options but if I’m Phil I probably take a wait and see approach here too. Media will insist that you divert 1st party resources to VR and that’s not the priority right now. Sony’s need for a lifeline to build the console VR market is also not a priority right now.

Focus on games, hardware, and services. Allow a 3rd party headset to work if it ever catches on. Invoice is in the mail. Next.
 
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Agreed. VR is such a shit gaming experience that Capcom decided to make a mainline Resident Evil fully playable in VR. Additionally, instead of Valve giving the world Half Life 3, they create Half Life VR......

Bring back Kinect please.

How did that piece of crap ever get credit. 'it can identify fingers'. BS.
 

Shmunter

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Reminds me of the stupid saying “stay in you lane”. Great things have never been achieved by staying in your lane. Those that venture out are the ones that change the world.

Hey Chill, nice stroke in that lane of yours.
 

Wonko_C

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It’s only funny to me because the industry keeps trying and trying to make VR a mass thing, and it’s just not gonna be. There can (and likely will) still be a nice niche market for VR, but the mass market doesn’t give a FUCK. All of the excuses are for naught. Throwing a ton of cash at a niche fad-like option that data shows isn’t expanding fast enough and isn’t gaining any notable interest despite the advertising campaigns from current competitors is arguably a waste of money, time, and resources.

It unfortunately never occurs to the VR evangelism crowd that maybe— just maybe— people by and large just don’t care about VR and don’t have any interest in trying it. They don’t want to be converted or lectured to. They prefer playing video games in a more traditional fashion, and there’s nothing wrong with maintaining what isn’t broken.
People not even wanting to try new things is something totally alien to me. Reminds me of when we were kids and didn't want to taste the food our parents wanted to feed us, without even knowing if it was going to taste good or not.
 
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Nov 22, 2019
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A lot of people are triggered by the fact bomb dropped by Phil and Matt about niche product. 😁

Another funny fact.
PSVita sold more than PSVR and the gang.
That's hardly relevant. PSVita is a product in an established decades old market. High quality consumer VR is still very new by comparison and most people don't have a good reference point for whether or not it's something they want. It's comparing apples to oranges. The product is niche right now, but there is no evidence that it will remain that way in the future. All I can say is that the VR communities I dabble in constantly have new people coming in talking about how it's blown their mind and their families love it. I too can say that my friends and family, most of which don't even play video games, were having a blast when I let them try my headset. The market right now is almost entirely people buying in to try something new, we have yet to see if those who bought PSVR buy a PSVR2. That will be a more reasonable metric to determine whether or not this is truly a fad, or if you are an ignorant troll.

It's also worth mentioning though, Sony still supports PSVR and not the Vita. If you truly believe that your comparison should be taken seriously then I am wondering how you will write off that little fact.
 
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jakinov

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A lot of people here being hostile or pissy over nothing.

The anti-VR people need realize that the technology is still getting better. Yes it didn't disrupt the industry and sell like hot cakes but things will only get better from here and it's far from dead.

The pro-VR people need to realize that Phil doesn't think that VR will never catch on or anything, it's that VR isn't that popular right now; at least not in terms of people actually going out and buying them. There's no value for Microsoft in investing VR right now unless they really want to appeal for that small population that are willing to adopt it right now. No one except the trolls in this thread are saying VR is dead.
 
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Completely fine with this for Scarlett.

I don't doubt VR, it just isn't there yet.

I've read plenty of William Gibson, Philip K. Dick and Shadowrun novels, so I'm aware where it can go, but I don't see it being where I want it for some time.

When we have quantum computing at the consumer level? Yes, it'll happen to the level I expect/can imagine. Right now, no.

I could argue it would need a killer app to really take the cake, something on the level of a Zelda/Mario/Final Fantasy/Dark Souls/etc, but I'm sure I'd get plenty of people giving me various examples to defend that point, and that's not what I'm trying to do. I haven't played any and don't feel the need to until it's ready. It will be, just not right now. What is currently possible would probably pale in comparison to what I've read (and likewise imagined) from reading various novels that include it.
 

nikolino840

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A lot of people here being hostile or pissy over nothing.

The anti-VR people need realize that the technology is still getting better. Yes it didn't disrupt the industry and sell like hot cakes but things will only get better from here and it's far from dead.

The pro-VR people need to realize that Phil doesn't think that VR will never catch on or anything, it's that VR isn't that popular right now; at least not in terms of people actually going out and buying them. There's no value for Microsoft in investing VR right now unless they really want to appeal for that small population that are willing to adopt it right now. No one except the trolls in this thread are saying VR is dead.
Most are only sonyboys mocking every decisions of Phil ... On Twitter at least...
 
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HeresJohnny

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Are his customers asking for game streaming? I'm a customer. I don't want streaming but I'd like to see VR...
I think streaming is a worse move than VR to be honest. I mean, just look at the giant dildo Google just sat on. Hopefully MS reconsiders, unless they're into that sort of thing.
 

HeresJohnny

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It's disingenuous to believe that anyone who doesn't support VR does so strictly for monetary reasons. Regardless, you have to remember the console market historically has been fickle regarding price, even without expensive add ons packed in the box. Microsoft just got fucked to oblivion for putting their bullshit garbage camera in the box and trying to force it on people for $500 a pop. Are you so keen to see them do it again?
 
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Ar¢tos

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Looks like a pretty accurate conclusion if you ask me. No need to throw money at this, there are other priorities.
Providing something like Oculus support from the start seems pretty easy and can only get more sales, not less.

What are the other priorities Xbox needs to focus then?
-Not VR
-Not single player AAA games, since they bought 4-5 small studios to make gamepass content .
-Forza, Halo, Gears?
-Not the EU/Asia market, things are as stale there as they were 7 years ago
-TV TV TV? SPORTS?
-Gamepass is good, but I doubt it is enough to keep Xbox alive. At those prices its a money bleeder.

So the very important things MS needs its undivided attention right now are:
-xcloud??
 
Oct 16, 2017
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Providing something like Oculus support from the start seems pretty easy and can only get more sales, not less.

What are the other priorities Xbox needs to focus then?
-Not VR
-Not single player AAA games, since they bought 4-5 small studios to make gamepass content .
-Forza, Halo, Gears?
-Not the EU/Asia market, things are as stale there as they were 7 years ago
-TV TV TV? SPORTS?
-Gamepass is good, but I doubt it is enough to keep Xbox alive. At those prices its a money bleeder.

So the very important things MS needs its undivided attention right now are:
-xcloud??
Hell, there is no reason why Gamepass can't supply VR games. Sure, you can't stream VR, but Xcloud is only one way to access Gamepass games. To have VR titles as a part of Gamepass can't be that horrible, could it?
 

Romulus

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Even the SEGA CD sold better than SONY VR
This is absolutely false. In fact psvr sold almost double sega cd(4.2m vs 2.25m) sega cd with less time on the market. Those numbers were reported in March too for psvr.

Not only that, you can see what you're getting with Sega CD, but you actually have to put in a headset to get VR. Then there's nausea claustrophobia. Sega cd should have absolutely destroyed psvr sales and didn't come close.

 
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Ar¢tos

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Hell, there is no reason why Gamepass can't supply VR games. Sure, you can't stream VR, but Xcloud is only one way to access Gamepass games. To have VR titles as a part of Gamepass can't be that horrible, could it?
No, it's actually good, but MS needs to provide support for VR headsets on the console for that. They already have a partnership with Oculus for the controller, they just need to extend it for headset support on the console, 3rd party devs will do the rest.
The more support VR gets, the faster grows.
 
Oct 16, 2017
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No, it's actually good, but MS needs to provide support for VR headsets on the console for that. They already have a partnership with Oculus for the controller, they just need to extend it for headset support on the console, 3rd party devs will do the rest.
The more support VR gets, the faster grows.
I strongly believe that Sony genuinely want MS to jump into VR for Xbox, just because it means third party VR studios would get additional sources of customers and be able to make bigger games.

VR is still restricted by the number of users right now, and in particular third party VR couldn't go beyond AA because there aren't enough customers. So Sony would probably cheer if MS finally put VR headsets into the Xbox ecosystem.
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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This doesn't rule VR out of future Xbox consoles, or even Scarlett itself, just not from Microsoft directly. Which I'm fine with.

1. Microsoft isn't in a position right now to pour resources into VR. They got all these new studios, they have GamePass and xcloud to push, those are best pushed by having those studios pump out a steady stream of quality, core gaming experiences. This will help them rebound their userbase to something closer to the 360.

2. VR tech isn't great right now. No reason to jump in this early.

If they can get a healthy userbase back heading into whatever is after Scarlett, I can see them jumping on the VR train then when hopefully the tech is a lot better.
 

The_Mike

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It's amazing how VR haters act like left woke people against straight white men.
If you don't like or want VR, do you know you can, like , just ignore it?
Offering support for hw can only get you more sales, not less.
The same thing can really be said about VR people. Many try so hårs to push it down common gamers throats, and if they see no interest from them it's simply because they are poor trash that can afford it, cus that's the only reason you wouldn't play, right?
 
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Ar¢tos

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The same thing can really be said about VR people. Many try so hårs to push it down common gamers throats, and if they see no interest from them it's simply because they are poor trash that can afford it, cus that's the only reason you wouldn't play, right?
I only see people defending VR as a optional accessory, and suggesting others to try first BEFORE saying it's shit straight away.
I have no idea where you are seeing someone pushing VR down someone's throat...
 

The_Mike

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I only see people defending VR as a optional accessory, and suggesting others to try first BEFORE saying it's shit straight away.
I have no idea where you are seeing someone pushing VR down someone's throat...
Someone made a thread some time ago with the conclusion that the only reason people disliked VR was because they couldn't afford it
 

Elenchus

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I strongly believe that Sony genuinely want MS to jump into VR for Xbox, just because it means third party VR studios would get additional sources of customers and be able to make bigger games.

VR is still restricted by the number of users right now, and in particular third party VR couldn't go beyond AA because there aren't enough customers. So Sony would probably cheer if MS finally put VR headsets into the Xbox ecosystem.
Yup. Sony would not be complaining about MS not entering the console VR market if that market was mature and making Sony $$$.

Yoshida’s tweet was essentially a cry for help because Sony has invested heavily in console VR and stands to lose its shirt if 3rd party devs don’t start making AAA games for console VR.

But if you’re MS what incentive do you have to help Sony build this market? Oculus has a stronger library than PSVR (HL Alyx is not even coming to PSVR) and MS can jump into VR with a mature headset and games with an Oculus deal later.

I’ll agree it’s not particularly neighborly but the shrewd move here for MS is to let Sony carry the weight of this market on its own and to swoop in late when that tree has actually borne fruit.
 

Ar¢tos

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Someone made a thread some time ago with the conclusion that the only reason people disliked VR was because they couldn't afford it
Someone =/= Everyone as you suggested
The same thing can really be said about VR people. Many try so hårs to push it down common gamers throats, and if they see no interest from them it's simply because they are poor trash that can afford it, cus that's the only reason you wouldn't play, right?
 
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ZenTheShogun

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It's probably not worth the efforts given Sony has had several years of head start. But can't they just hook VRs on PC to their ecosystem? Simply leaving it out doesn't tell much of the confidence.
Well - Sony had a head-start of several years with PSNow over Game Pass and XCloud but...
 
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Romulus

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If those headsets keep selling it may be a market. Index was recently #1 in all categories on steam. More trailers and launch hype will surge the install base. It could go from a niche, niche to just a niche quickly.

The other thing is VR games sell well.
So it doesn't take many users to be profitable. Superhot VR outsold the standard version with only about 5-10% of the install base.

Blood and Truth charted at #1 in the UK against regular ps4 games. Only 4 million VR users versus 95+ million consumers.

Theres no denying VR users buy games, and it could be a low key powerhouse without elevating to the masses.
 
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Ar¢tos

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Yup. Sony would not be complaining about MS not entering the console VR market if that market was mature and making Sony $$$.

Yoshida’s tweet was essentially a cry for help because Sony has invested heavily in console VR and stands to lose its shirt if 3rd party devs don’t start making AAA games for console VR.

But if you’re MS what incentive do you have to help Sony build this market? Oculus has a stronger library than PSVR (HL Alyx is not even coming to PSVR) and MS can jump into VR with a mature headset and games with an Oculus deal later.

I’ll agree it’s not particularly neighborly but the shrewd move here for MS is to let Sony carry the weight of this market on its own and to swoop in late when that tree has actually borne fruit.
Swooping in late has the risk of the market being already saturated and that everyone that wanted console VR already has a PS5 for that.
Its not being shrewd, it's taking a safe path that might cost them profit/users in the end.
 

gifgaf

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Many try so hårs to push it down common gamers throats,
Someone made a thread some time ago with the conclusion that the only reason people disliked VR was because they couldn't afford it
Dude. You are the only one that reads my post saying "everyone". I literally wrote many, and many doesn't mean everyone.
Ok then, Someone =/= Many. Nice goalpost moving. I would like to read that thread, you got a link?

Personally I have not ever tried to force it down anybody's throat, but I will comment to correct the petty missinformation that you and others like to spread. That is all I have ever done.

People are allowed to dislike VR, I dissagree with the amount of aggressiveness and lies they do it with. Why can't people who enjoy VR enjoy it without your bullshit? Its not hurting you in anyway at all.
 
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Elenchus

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Swooping in late has the risk of the market being already saturated and that everyone that wanted console VR already has a PS5 for that.
Its not being shrewd, it's taking a safe path that might cost them profit/users in the end.
That may or may not happen. There are no guarantees either way.

But you still haven’t answered my question. Why would Yoshida be complaining about MS not investing in VR?
 

The_Mike

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Ok then, Someone =/= Many. Nice goalpost moving. I would like to read that thread, you got a link?

Personally I have not ever tried to force it down anybody's throat, but I will comment to correct the petty missinformation that you and others like to spread. That is all I have ever done.

People are allowed to dislike VR, I dissagree with the amount of aggressiveness and lies they do it with. Why can't people who enjoy VR enjoy it without your bullshit? Its not hurting you in anyway at all.
Why do you feel offended by my post? I've never said gifgaf were forcing it down my throat. Unless you were the one who made that post awhile ago.

And no, I don't got a link. It's a few months ago the thread was made.
 

gifgaf

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Why do you feel offended by my post? I've never said gifgaf were forcing it down my throat. Unless you were the one who made that post awhile ago.

And no, I don't got a link. It's a few months ago the thread was made.
I'm offended by your lies and constant bashing of VR for no apparent reason except "one guy made a post that triggered me"

You are the one who keeps butting into VR discussions with no real information or experience, you want to trigger people then thats what you get, except I can prove your words are just lies.

Do not missunderstand me, I try to correct the missinformation that others like to spout too, I am not just picking on you. I do not want to, it isn't fun. I just want to discuss is all.
 
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Shifty

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I can't take the "VR is isolating" argument seriously in a gaming landscape where couch multiplayer is all but dead and online reigns supreme.

Having other people in the room is immaterial to most games as it is, what does it matter if you have a screen strapped to your face?
 
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The_Mike

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I'm offended by your lies and constant bashing of VR for no apparent reason except "one guy made a post that triggered me"

You are the one who keeps butting into VR discussions with no real information or experience, you want to trigger people then thats what you get, except I can prove your words are just lies.

Do not missunderstand me, I try to correct the missinformation that others like to spout too, I am not just picking on you. I do not want to, it isn't fun. I just want to discuss is all.
So I'm lying because I don't enjoy VR? I like to discuss things that I both enjoy and don't enjoy. That doesn't make me a lier.

So you're simply denying that a minority is trying to stop VR down everyone's throat? Is that because you mean it's the majority of VR users instead?

What are you trying to get out of this?
 
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Journey

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Dude. You are the only one that reads my post saying "everyone". I literally wrote many, and many doesn't mean everyone.

Dude, you're in a thread where "VR not a focus" can turn into "We will not support VR in any shape or form" LOL What did you expect?
 

iNvid02

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Its niche as fuck and companies once again overestimated how big the demand for it would be hence the ridiclous price points

Valve have invested millions into this shit so won't just drop it, desperate to push adoption with a half life side story