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VR not a focus of Project Scarlett, says Phil Spencer

Oct 16, 2017
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Not many companies like throwing good money after bad. Hence, even if your war chest is a lot bigger than your competitions (which is it, in this case), it would be a terrible business decision to spend a lot of money developing something that noone outside of a small niche gives a shit about.
You are literally just repeating my post. You 1. Do believe in the large war chest myth and 2. say that VR sucks so MS wouldn't spend money on it.

Why did you bother to reply if you only just repeat what I said?
 
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TBiddy

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You are literally just repeating my post. You 1. Do believe in the large war chest myth and 2. say that VR sucks so MS wouldn't spend money on it.

Why did you bother to reply if you only just repeat what I said?
I didn't. Your point was, if I understand you correctly, that Microsoft can't afford to develop a VR-solution for the Scarlett. Right? (See below).

Because the alternative is to admit that Xbox has a finite budget and can't afford to just spend their way out of trouble.
It's a poor analysis, since they can afford it. I get that we're all armchair analysts here, but there's got to be a limit. If VR was a sound business decision, it would be developed. It's not, so there's no pointing in throwing hundreds of millions of money away on it.

That has nothing to do with "can't afford" or that "VR sucks", as you so eloquently put it. It's just a bad business case for everyone, including Valve, Ocolus and Sony.
 
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Mass Shift

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:messenger_loudly_crying:

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/11/28/half-life-alyx-xbox-boss-phil-spencer-has-played-it-says-its-amazing

Just waiting on the news that VR will be announced for Scarlet and see a bunch of flip flop responses.
VR support? YES. VR device? No.


Not many companies like throwing good money after bad. Hence, even if your war chest is a lot bigger than your competitions (which is it, in this case), it would be a terrible business decision to spend a lot of money developing something that noone outside of a small niche gives a shit about.
No kidding. Besides, MS already has a graveyard of me too devices that never took off. They're a lot smarter now in the Nadella era. At least I think so. They don't feel the need to compete in every space just because they can.
 

TBiddy

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No kidding. Besides, MS already has a graveyard of me too devices that never took off. They're a lot smarter now in the Nadella era. At least I think so. They don't feel the need to compete in every space just because they can.
Agreed. They seem to be focusing more on their core strengths, which is cloud and software. Hopefully this whole silly TV era is done and over.
 

SleepDoctor

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Microsoft spent over 100 million designing the xbox controller. And Halo Infinite is said to have a 500 million dollar budget iirc. Money is definitely not the the issue.

It'd probably be smarter if they do jump in the market to just support the oculus tho like others have stated. Less resources would be taken away from other projects.
 

quickwhips

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I mean i know this is crazy but what if sony and ms sign an agreement to make sony vr work on xbox probably not but still i see this as a wiser decision than making a niche competing product.
 

Meowzers

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Sony can afford to focus on VR, but Microsoft are far behind at the minute. Just stick to basics. They'd only throw in a VR headset with every console anyways...and make the price go up too much.
 
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lukilladog

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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm sorry this isn't obvious.

Comparing it to something like drugs which is highly addictive and can ruin people's lives is a stupid comparison. I'm sure there are hardcore drugs that are really fun. I can't tell you personally, I don't do them.

I haven't seen anyone OD on VR or become dependent on it to the point where their life has been ruined. If you think that's a real possibility, then, yes stay far away.
I´m wasn´t comparing it to drugs, I was comparing the type of argumentation which is similar to what narcotics peddlers and addicts do. But like with drugs, you don´t need to experiment the effects in order to criticize them... observation of users is enough to give you a good idea, furthermore, not experimenting the dopamine rush from these things probably lets you formulate a less biassed better criticism. Check this out:

 
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Thing is I don't think they know how to focus on both. Look how they went about with kinect.

I'd rather nothing than us getting some half assed games for vr (it will probably take awhile before they release any decent games on it) and weak AAA focus.
I know what you mean, although VR has a ton of great 3rd party games too, which would help carry VR for them.
 
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Vawn

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I´m wasn´t comparing it to drugs, I was comparing the type of argumentation which is similar to what narcotics peddlers and addicts do. But like with drugs, you don´t need to experiment the effects in order to criticize them... observation of users is enough to give you a good idea, furthermore, not experimenting the dopamine rush from these things probably lets you formulate a less biassed better criticism. Check this out:

You honestly make no sense to me. Are you saying VR is bad, because you'll get addicted to it or that it has negative consequences on your life? If so, please show me any information or studies backing this.

I also roll my eyes when anyone e syarrs using the word "dopamine". Usually, people don't know what they're talking about and just uses the word to imply they are enjoying something they shouldn't be enjoying because the mean ol dopamine is tricking them.
 
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lukilladog

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You honestly make no sense to me. Are you saying VR is bad, because you'll get addicted to it or that it has negative consequences on your life? If so, please show me any information or studies backing this.

I also roll my eyes when anyone e syarrs using the word "dopamine". Usually, people don't know what they're talking about and just uses the word to imply they are enjoying something they shouldn't be enjoying because the mean ol dopamine is tricking them.
What I´m saying is that it´s hard to evaluate certain things when your brain is expecting regular doses of dopamine from their usage. That´s why some of you guys are so preemptive and deffensive to VR criticism and you take it all as attacks and hate at this point.
 

Freedom Gate Co.

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That's weird seeing as Sony has stated PSVR has surpassed original expectations and is fixing to launch PSVR 2.0 for next generation.

That's weird since VR technology just got Valve to resurrect Half-Life in a new AAA game.

It is also weird we are seeing some of the best games continue to come out pushing the platform such as Blood and Truth, Asgard's Wrath, Concrete Genie, etc.

Of course, I'm talking to Freedom Gate Co. here....
Yeah surely that valve VR game is the game everyones' waiting for. LOLLOLOLOLOL

In the meantime, back in reality, Sony announced 4.2 million PSvr's this year and how long has it been on the market? Out of 100 million install base? But you think it's still alive? yeahhhhhhh...

Like I sad, all combined less then 8 million since 2014, it's freaking dead give up. There's nothing to see here.
 
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Gashtronomy

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Yeah surely that valve VR game is the game everyones' waiting for. LOLLOLOLOLOL

In the meantime, back in reality, Sony announced 4.2 million PSvr's this year and how long has it been on the market? Out of 100 million install base? But you think it's still alive? yeahhhhhhh...

Like I sad, all combined less then 8 million since 2014, it's freaking dead give up. There's nothing to see here.
4.2 million for an accessory that can only be used by one person, built by a company in financial ruin, constructed using old bits knocking about Sony HQ that requires wires and a big square box to play?

Are these supposed to be bad numbers?
 
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Stuart360

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Yeah surely that valve VR game is the game everyones' waiting for. LOLLOLOLOLOL

In the meantime, back in reality, Sony announced 4.2 million PSvr's this year and how long has it been on the market? Out of 100 million install base? But you think it's still alive? yeahhhhhhh...

Like I sad, all combined less then 8 million since 2014, it's freaking dead give up. There's nothing to see here.
4-5mil from 100mil isnt actually that bad for something like this. It was alwways going to be a niche product that would grow a few million install base, and a modest community. It was never expected to hit like 50% attach rate. I bet Sony was thinking 10% attach rate at the high end.
 

zcaa0g

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Most Xbox folks haven't even tried high quality VR. How can there be chicken if you aren't going to lay the egg first? VR offers some of the most compelling experiences I've ever had with a video game and I'm excited to watch it get better.

Nor has most Playstation folks if you are referring to the PSVR.
 

Ar¢tos

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I´m wasn´t comparing it to drugs, I was comparing the type of argumentation which is similar to what narcotics peddlers and addicts do. But like with drugs, you don´t need to experiment the effects in order to criticize them... observation of users is enough to give you a good idea, furthermore, not experimenting the dopamine rush from these things probably lets you formulate a less biassed better criticism. Check this out:

Until that guy trims that horrible hair and beard, and has a shower, I can't bring myself to believe in anything he says. He looks like a crazy hobo in a suit.
 
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MacReady13

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I'll say it again. Xbox gamers really aren't asking for this. It's just not high on their list of priorities.

I hear Xbox fans asking for Fable or even another Banjo before ever mentioning a VR headset.
Are they asking for streaming though? Is xcloud a big thing for Xbox gamers? It isn't for me. I'd rather VR over streaming.
 

Romulus

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Yeah surely that valve VR game is the game everyones' waiting for. LOLLOLOLOLOL

In the meantime, back in reality, Sony announced 4.2 million PSvr's this year and how long has it been on the market? Out of 100 million install base? But you think it's still alive? yeahhhhhhh...

Like I sad, all combined less then 8 million since 2014, it's freaking dead give up. There's nothing to see here.

And two years ago the numbers were even absolutely nothing. Every year the market grows for VR. This is the first year exclusive AAA games were created for VR, next year theres even more coming. 2019 was the best year for VR sales by far, and you think the market will suddenly die? Makes no sense.

Even after the "bad numbers" why are still making headsets? Why didn't they make another vita? Why didn't kinect get another updates, yet 5-6 companies are constantly reinvesting in VR? You know more than them? All of them? Of course you do.

Here's the real reason why it won't fail. VR attach rate is higher than normal games typically, it's the reason a game like super hot VR outsold the non VR version with less than 10% of the userbase.

Having said all that, VR doesn't have to huge or even impressive in your eyes, because you have no idea where the profitability is or where its going. Its called the long game, and whether you're onboard on not, you're going for the ride with us as more and more games will follow Alyx.

VR can sustain itself outside of the ignorance in this thread, that it needs some magic number of "success."
 
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demigod

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Yeah surely that valve VR game is the game everyones' waiting for. LOLLOLOLOLOL

In the meantime, back in reality, Sony announced 4.2 million PSvr's this year and how long has it been on the market? Out of 100 million install base? But you think it's still alive? yeahhhhhhh...

Like I sad, all combined less then 8 million since 2014, it's freaking dead give up. There's nothing to see here.
You realize the eyetoy still around right?
 
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John117

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Seriously, I don't understand strategy of MS in VR. They announced support VR for One X, then they said don't support VR. They was building a headset VR for Xbox, then it was abbandoned. Now Phil says that VR is not focus on Scarlett. Why? Why? I think that Halo (A chapter for VR) it would be cool. Imagine a headset themed Masterchief Visor. Come on MS!
 
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Oct 16, 2017
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Seriously, I don't understand strategy of MS in VR. They announced support VR for One X, then they said don't support VR. They was building a headset VR for Xbox, then it was abbandoned. Now Phil says that VR is not focus on Scarlett. Why? Why? I think that Halo (A chapter for VR) it would be cool. Imagine a headset themed Masterchief Visor. Come on MS!
The "why" is simple. Xbox has a limited budget and they are better off spending it on 1st party games. The infinite warchest doesn't exist, Microsoft as a whole does not want to throw more money into the pit. Xbox Division will have to be self sufficient and pull its own weight next gen, and can't afford to go in the red more than it needed to be.
 

Three

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The reason is very simple yet the regular fans choose to discredit VR instead of accepting the reality of it. It would not make financial sense for MS to support a peripheral like that on a console with such a low install base. You would be talking about 4% of a low number and software at an even lower percentage of that percentage. Support for it would die instantly. MS aren't doing it because there is no money in it for them not because VR is isolating, antisocial, not ready, or whatever other shit Xbox execs or xbox fans are now trying to peddle for why it's not supported. To add to that they bullshitted everyone with the xbox One X VR support where all the xbox fans weren't talking this kind of nonsense back then.
 

Vawn

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From spewing nonsense on forums to wowed. I'm certain this mindset is 90% of the comments I read. I've even seen it a few dozen times at my house.

Yup. That is the majority of VR skeptics in a nutshell.

They don't have VR, haven't really tried (real) VR, so they get extremely defensive against it.

Then once they try it and invest in it, they do a full 180.

Oddly, Soulsborne players are the same way. I guess somethings are easier to try to convince yourself they suck, but once you "get it", you become huge advocates.

Virtual Reality and Dark Souls - the green eggs and ham of the video game world.
 
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Bodatan

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According to PS fans, PSVita supposed to kill 3ds but the thing it killed was itself.


160 pages of glorious wanking session.
 
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Gashtronomy

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I still have a Vita andthe I've never not being in awe at its power.

My Vita is now an emulation machine. No fucks given
 
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John117

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The "why" is simple. Xbox has a limited budget and they are better off spending it on 1st party games. The infinite warchest doesn't exist, Microsoft as a whole does not want to throw more money into the pit. Xbox Division will have to be self sufficient and pull its own weight next gen, and can't afford to go in the red more than it needed to be.
Yes, Xbox will be must self sufficient but behind Xbox, there's MS. Now, MS could be building a headset Surface VR for other business and then add on Xbox Scarlett. I think that in this moment the VR needs of other Killer apps (beyond Half Life Alyx)- Maybe Halo could be a Killer App, I'm not very sure. Ok, 343 industries could be developing a chapter for VR in Halo Infinite (look COD Infinite Warfare or other titles)- Maybe I'm too much geek....
 

CatLady

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4.2 million for an accessory that can only be used by one person, built by a company in financial ruin, constructed using old bits knocking about Sony HQ that requires wires and a big square box to play?

Are these supposed to be bad numbers?
Yeah they're bad. So many people in here saying Kinect was bad, nobody wanted it and it was a gimmick. All true but in 2.5 years it sold 24M on a smaller install base than the PS4 has.


PSVR @ 4M on an install base of 100M+ = 4%. It seems for the most part other than the VR zealots in here, Sony fans didn't ask for and don't want VR either
 
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cyber69

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Kinect doing great in sales was one of the biggest fumbles in gaming history.
- Microsoft had no clue what they wanted to do with it.
- Progress wasn't made.
- Support was horrible.
- Shoved down owners throats VIA Xbox One release

If you wanted to ask, VR is none of the above.
 

93xfan

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It's amazing how VR haters act like left woke people against straight white men.
If you don't like or want VR, do you know you can, like , just ignore it?
Offering support for hw can only get you more sales, not less.
People don’t like resources taken away from other projects that would appeal to them.
Less VR focus = more games for the standard console.
 

Gashtronomy

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Yeah they're bad. So many people in here saying Kinect was bad, nobody wanted it and it was a gimmick. All true but in 2.5 years it sold 24M on a smaller install base than the PS4 has.


PSVR @ 4M on an install base of 100M+ = 4%. It seems for the most part other than the VR zealots in here, Sony fans didn't ask for and don't want VR either
24M sold as a Wii-killer during the height of the Wii popularity craze. Sold under false videos, fake shows and backed by a plethora of shills, paid off journalists and PR bullshit.

The kinect demonstrably failed and saw a huge drop off in usage, games and units sold within six months of launch.

The short term sales of kinect look fantastic, over five years its worth suiciding over.

By contrast, the VR has had a slow burn, not backed by a mega-wealthy electronics companies, is hard to demonstrate to anyone not wearing a device and is solely aimed at solo play. However, the sale have been steadily increasing, as have the games released and amount of companies backing VR.

So yeah, Kinect looks good with 24M vs 4M VR units but the stories of failure and success could not be further apart.
 

demigod

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Yeah they're bad. So many people in here saying Kinect was bad, nobody wanted it and it was a gimmick. All true but in 2.5 years it sold 24M on a smaller install base than the PS4 has.


PSVR @ 4M on an install base of 100M+ = 4%. It seems for the most part other than the VR zealots in here, Sony fans didn't ask for and don't want VR either
It was bundled to hell and back, but go ahead and be disingenuous. And yes, Kinect was bad.
 

Romulus

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Yeah they're bad. So many people in here saying Kinect was bad, nobody wanted it and it was a gimmick. All true but in 2.5 years it sold 24M on a smaller install base than the PS4 has.


PSVR @ 4M on an install base of 100M+ = 4%. It seems for the most part other than the VR zealots in here, Sony fans didn't ask for and don't want VR either

I'm not sure how many times this tired, ignorant argument will be brought up.

Kinect sales surged and fell off a cliff, VR sales are slowly growing. That's wht VR is getting AAA games from huge publishers and kinect never did. They understand business unlike most people on gaming forums.

Even if kinect sold 100+ million units, it fell off almost immediately and deems it dead.

That will never happen to VR. It will get a small increase every year and that will sustain it for decades as the tech improves and is more affordable. It doesn't need to do crazy numbers to survive and suck away AAA devs to its development because the software attach rate is good. You can't stop it. Facebook(oculus), Sony, and Valve are "all in."
 
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Romulus

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Half Life, Asgard's Wrath, Stormland, Iron Man are all exclusive AAA VR games that are hitting VR in a six month window. This is more than have come to VR and Kinect's entire lifetimes combined. Hell, even regular ps4 and xbox one has trouble competing with that. Almost.

Start worrying, things are changing. Metal of Honor are 2 more Valve games are coming plus dozens of AA and unannounced AAA in 2020.
 
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cyber69

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24M sold as a Wii-killer during the height of the Wii popularity craze. Sold under false videos, fake shows and backed by a plethora of shills, paid off journalists and PR bullshit.

The kinect demonstrably failed and saw a huge drop off in usage, games and units sold within six months of launch.

The short term sales of kinect look fantastic, over five years its worth suiciding over.

By contrast, the VR has had a slow burn, not backed by a mega-wealthy electronics companies, is hard to demonstrate to anyone not wearing a device and is solely aimed at solo play. However, the sale have been steadily increasing, as have the games released and amount of companies backing VR.

So yeah, Kinect looks good with 24M vs 4M VR units but the stories of failure and success could not be further apart.
One of the biggest scams in gaming industry.
 

Mass Shift

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Yeah they're bad. So many people in here saying Kinect was bad, nobody wanted it and it was a gimmick. All true but in 2.5 years it sold 24M on a smaller install base than the PS4 has.


PSVR @ 4M on an install base of 100M+ = 4%. It seems for the most part other than the VR zealots in here, Sony fans didn't ask for and don't want VR either
The history of console peripherals has NEVER been a good one.
 

Freedom Gate Co.

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4-5mil from 100mil isnt actually that bad for something like this. It was alwways going to be a niche product
I like how everyone is forgetting how much Sony spend on marketing VR for years to only sell 4.2 million sets. I'm sure it brought them as much profit as the Vita or less. Don't forget all those touch screen pens that were given away at all the demos, they did everything to get people to buy the thing and dropped the price and still sold nothing.

VR sales are slowly growing.
Lol put the drugs down sir.

VR is dead, the last overall growth was 2017, Phone VR doesn't even exist anymore, the only major VR headset selling is Oculus Quest and the Oculus Go, and those are barely moving, HTC is hanging on for dear life, and PSVR is moving DOWNWARD not upward, where is the growth???

Look I'm sure it will come back 10 years from now like VR does every cycle.
 

Romulus

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Lol put the drugs down sir.

VR is dead, the last overall growth was 2017, Phone VR doesn't even exist anymore, the only major VR headset selling is Oculus Quest and the Oculus Go, and those are barely moving, HTC is hanging on for dear life, and PSVR is moving DOWNWARD not upward, where is the growth???

Look I'm sure it will come back 10 years from now like VR does every cycle.
Link that oculus Quest is barely moving? Where is the link psvr is going down? Index is selling out is the only markers I see.

Why are major publishers pushing AAA in 2020 and sony confirmed ps5 psvr if it's dead?
 
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Freedom Gate Co.

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Link that oculus Quest is barely moving? Where is the link psvr is going down? Index is selling out is the only markers I see.
These questions all have to be jokes, how much do you think VR is selling right now when the entire market hasn't sold 8 million units since 2014 and the PSVR 4.2 is likely the highest selling product and Phone VR is dead?

Let's be factual here nothing is actually selling well. Quest is selling better than the Rift did and is selling better than PSVR too, but that's not much of an accomplishment nor does that mean VR isn't dead and not growing, how do you grow when half the market is missing?
 

Freedom Gate Co.

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Where's that old Freedom Gate shit post gif?
You wouldn't even be talking about VR if this wasn't an Xbox thread, if it said Bobby Kotick instead of Phil you would have agreed with the statement, let's be honest.

You don't contribute anything to the board just a random fanboy that will pretend reality doesn't exist for your plastic box, but it's ok, VR will die yet again and will come back in 10 years in the usual cycle, No sane analysis exists saying that VR is healthy right now, but that's all for naught as you don't really care about VR, you care about Xbox saying they don't want it and failing at pretending to be neutral this entire thread.
 

Afro Republican

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it's freaking dead give up. There's nothing to see here.
Hmmm

The worldwide augmented reality (AR) and virtual reality (VR) headset market returned to growth after a year of decline as global shipments during the first quarter of 2019 (1Q19) reached 1.3 million, up 27.2% from the same quarter last year. The overall AR/VR market has begun to grow again thanks to a surge in shipments of standalone head-mounted displays (HMDs) and tethered HMDs that helped to offset the decline in the low-end, screenless viewer segment, according to the International Data Corporation (IDC) Worldwide Quarterly Augmented and Virtual Reality Headset Tracker.

VR headsets represented 96.6% of the combined AR/VR market during the quarter with strong volumes from top companies such as Sony, Facebook, HTC, Pico, and 3Glasses. The top five vendors captured 65.1% of the total VR headset market.
But it's dead tho...