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VRR coming to PS5 via firmware update in Spring 2022

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RafterXL

Member
I'm talking from experience. I don't know how much clearer I can be on this:

VRR using a capable monitor (which is what most PC gamers will be doing) = good - however you will still want to tweak settings to keep your minimum framerates above a certain level, you don't want to get near the lower ends of the VRR range, ideally just keep the minimums above 60fps and everything is good. I have an LG ultra wide where the VRR range is 40-75hz.

VRR on TV's (which is what most console gamers will be using) - mediocre at best. On OLED panels you are sacrificing IQ, my Q70r only has a VRR range of 48-60hz at 4k (best to lock it to 60fps, don't want to hear anyone bullshitting me about unlocked 48-60fps being better - it's not). The 1440p range on that TV is much better but again it's miles from OLED picture quality. Basically to get a "smooth" VRR experience on TV's you often need some shit-tier LCD panel (from a PQ point of view). Ask Riky Riky what TV he's running and you'll see what I mean.

Incidentally I also have a 48 inch LG C1 on the way. That will be replacing the Q70r (which will be going on a sim rig). I'll let you know how the VRR fairs but I'm not holding my breath having done some research. That feature is not what I'm buying the panel for anyway.
Your experience is wrong. You have a mediocre TV so you act like VRR is shit on ALL tvs because of it. The LG C1 does 20-120hz VRR, and there is NO image degradation. It's also far superior than the monitor you use and that you claim to be better. I have my PC, XSX and PS5 hooked to one and the two machines that utilize VRR benefit greatly from it. There are literally dozens and dozens of games that benefit from VRR on ANY console. It's an excellent feature when combined with the XSX and will most certainly be the same with the PS5 because things like frame drops and screen tearing happen on both.
 

GHG

Member
Your experience is wrong. You have a mediocre TV so you act like VRR is shit on ALL tvs because of it. The LG C1 does 20-120hz VRR, and there is NO image degradation. It's also far superior than the monitor you use and that you claim to be better. I have my PC, XSX and PS5 hooked to one and the two machines that utilize VRR benefit greatly from it. There are literally dozens and dozens of games that benefit from VRR on ANY console. It's an excellent feature when combined with the XSX and will most certainly be the same with the PS5 because things like frame drops and screen tearing happen on both.

Literally every reliable resource states that all LG OLED panels have issues (gamma, black levels, flickering) when VRR is enabled. If you want to ignore that then that's your business.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
Can't find anymore his first video about the problem, but here is the second one he made on the subject :



Still, there is a new setting slightly improving things :



When VRR is on, you basically choose between a slightly washed out image or slight flickering. Less than ideal.

Literally every reliable resource states that all LG OLED panels have issues (gamma, black levels, flickering) when VRR is enabled. If you want to ignore that then that's your business.

there is a slight gamma issue when VRR is enabled, extremely slight. Which can be mitigated by going to around minus 3 on the setting. Yes there is flickering on extreme blacks on certain games but there is two ways to sort of fix this. One is to make sure that if the game is 30 or 60 hz to not have the Xbox set to 120 in the is settings of the console and the other is to raise the black level in the tvs settings which moves it closer to an ips or LCD/LED TV In black levels On the affected game.

yes, this means you are losing the absolute perfect inky black if an oled but I will be honest I have only noticed it in a small selection of games. I always have VRR enabled and would choose smooth tear free gameplay over an infinite black or very slight flicker when outside of loading screens.

it can be a little bit of a chore switching the system level settings from 60 to 120 fps dependant on the game but I’ll take it until the issue is fixed on future models and I buy a new TV.

GHG, you should deffo invest in a decent g sync monitor or make sure you activate it on the C1. it’s awesome and will allow you to push your graphics more on your sim rig.
 
While VRR has made PC gaming 1000x better for me (no longer the need to get locked 60fps to avoid judder so doing settings takes seconds now) it is also perfect for console games that consistently drops just below 60fps as you don't get the judder from duplicate frames. Judging by DF, VGTech etc very few games this gen are locked 60fps and VRR improves your experience in these games. Even 1st party games don't always hit 60fps consistently - Returnal is all over the place in terms of framerate and SM: Miles Morales in RT Performance doesn't hold 60fps so has obvious (to me) judder - VRR will clean this right up.

The chances of all console games having locked framerates is 0% so at least you will have an option to deal with that now.

The only game I have had gamma issues in is The Medium (and the loading screen of AC: Valhalla) and I must have played 100+ games on my XSX so the gamma issues are overblown in my experience and if they bother you more than judder just turn off VRR - at least you will have the choice now.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
While VRR has made PC gaming 1000x better for me (no longer the need to get locked 60fps to avoid judder so doing settings takes seconds now) it is also perfect for console games that consistently drops just below 60fps as you don't get the judder from duplicate frames. Judging by DF, VGTech etc very few games this gen are locked 60fps and VRR improves your experience in these games. Even 1st party games don't always hit 60fps consistently - Returnal is all over the place in terms of framerate and SM: Miles Morales in RT Performance doesn't hold 60fps so has obvious (to me) judder - VRR will clean this right up.

The chances of all console games having locked framerates is 0% so at least you will have an option to deal with that now.

The only game I have had gamma issues in is The Medium (and the loading screen of AC: Valhalla) and I must have played 100+ games on my XSX so the gamma issues are overblown in my experience and if they bother you more than judder just turn off VRR - at least you will have the choice now.

Sure, but given some of us have OLED panels (LG) and VRR still has issues (that only C1 added some way for people to manually counteract them a bit) on those in terms of gamma (black levels and flickering), I would still prefer to wait and demand developers of console games lock framerate and ensure the games are more optimised which is why I buy console games in the first place (locked platforms and all). I have turned off VRR on my XSX (VRR is not even working in some games like Halo: Infinite at all), but I am not liking the trend of console developers using this as a crutch on a fixed specs closed console box.

I understand 120 Hz games fluctuating between 100 and 120 Hz, but not relying on VRR to fix games fluctuating between 30 and 60 Hz. Also, it might not stutter but you will still see the game speeding up and down.

See Vincent’s remarks, again, on the state of VRR here:
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
there is a slight gamma issue when VRR is enabled, extremely slight. Which can be mitigated by going to around minus 3 on the setting. Yes there is flickering on extreme blacks on certain games but there is two ways to sort of fix this. One is to make sure that if the game is 30 or 60 hz to not have the Xbox set to 120 in the is settings of the console and the other is to raise the black level in the tvs settings which moves it closer to an ips or LCD/LED TV In black levels On the affected game.

yes, this means you are losing the absolute perfect inky black if an oled but I will be honest I have only noticed it in a small selection of games. I always have VRR enabled and would choose smooth tear free gameplay over an infinite black or very slight flicker when outside of loading screens.

it can be a little bit of a chore switching the system level settings from 60 to 120 fps dependant on the game but I’ll take it until the issue is fixed on future models and I buy a new TV.

GHG, you should deffo invest in a decent g sync monitor or make sure you activate it on the C1. it’s awesome and will allow you to push your graphics more on your sim rig.
C9 and CX do not have that setting and you are trading that for true blacks. Also turning off 120 Hz on the XSX settings seem to also reduce max assumed bandwidth settings for the HDMI port (leading to chroma sub sampling, which I think Vincent covers in one of his videos).

You can make it work kind of with some tradeoffs (in a game like The Medium I would think nice blacks and shadow details are more important than some infrequent stutters… most games where gamma issues are noticeable seem to be games where the workaround would prioritise the wrong thing IMHO) and it becomes a per game imperfect work around… so not only it comes with issues and issues come with workarounds with their own caveats, the feature should not be used as a crutch in fixed specs closed platforms (unless you are talking special 120 Hz modes maybe, 4K@120 Hz is quite a crazy setting to deserve its special case).
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
VRR = Variable Refresh Rate.

displays have a refresh rate (60, 120, and 144hz are most common at the moment) which is not the same as frame rate but they are related. say you have a TV that is 60Hz refresh rate then for a 1:1 ratio you'd want content at 60fps. that way every time the TV refreshes there is a new frame ready to go at that exact same time. if you have too high or lower a framerate against the refresh rate then you're either wasting processing power or giving yourself issues like judder/stutter/input lag (for lower)/screen tearing. for example, say you're watching a movie which is shot at ~24fps and you have a 60hz display then, because 24 doesn't divide equally into 60, it will cause a stuttering effect.

anyway, VRR is aimed at games because games run at a common framerates like 30, 60, 120fps but they don't always stick to their limits. games that target 30fps might drop to 28, 25, 23fps. games that target 60fps might drop to 55, 50, 45fps. games that target 120fps might drop to 110, 90, 80fps. if Vsync is enable on your display you will experience input lag and stuttering as frames are held over multiple Hz. if Vsync isn't enabled and framerate doesn't match refresh rate you will experience screen tearing. if your refresh rate is 60fps and a game does 40 or 70fps then you might see two frames on screen at once (which is tearing).

VRR eliminates the input lag, stuttering, and screen tearing found in games as a result of vsync or mismatched refresh rates. the display can adjust its refresh rate to match the exactly fps a game has. example, i have a 144hz monitor. if i can run a game at 144fps then there is a 1:1 ratio but it's not realistic to expect all games to run at 144fps consistently as it will sometimes drop to 110, 100, 90, 80fps. so when a game is struggling and can only manage 103fps then the display will drop from 144hz to 103hz in order to keep a 1:1 ratio. if the game drops to 68fps then the refresh rate of the display goes to 68hz.

some displays have a VRR window which is usually 20, 40, 48hz. what that means is if the framerate goes that low then the display can't match it anymore but there is a feature called LFC (low frame compensation) which essentially doubles what ever the framerate is. so if framerate is 10fps the display is 20hz. if framerate is 42fps then the TV goes to 84hz.

VRR works by having the GPU and monitor sync with each other (hence Gsync, Freesync). your GPU says here are 51 frames for ya and the monitor goes to 51hz. the next second the gpu says here are 48 frames so the monitor goes to 48hz. the next second the gpu says here are 60 frames so the monitor goes to 60hz.
I have a question since i'm new to the whole vrr\gsync thing.

When i play on pc, is it better to lock the framerate at 60 or i can just leave the framerate uncapped (my lg c1 can do 120) because g-sync take care of the wild flactuations?! Like i know that my 2070super is not a 120 frame gpu if i want to play at 1440p high details with heavy games, but sometimes i have some power to spare and i can do more than 60, but not by that much.

Is it better to have a locked framerate at 60 or having maybe higher framerates but with wild flactuations because gsync is there to help?

It is not a problem when i can play at 4k because i don't have an hdmi 2.1 capable gpu so i can only do 4k60, but since i play mostly at 1440p i have the 120 frame option available but i always lock to 60 because i don't trust my gpu to maintain high framerates, but maybe it would feel better leaving the framerate uncapped and enjoy the moments when the gpu can actually run at highest framerates?!
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
C9 and CX do not have that setting and you are trading that for true blacks. Also turning off 120 Hz on the XSX settings seem to also reduce max assumed bandwidth settings for the HDMI port (leading to chroma sub sampling, which I think Vincent covers in one of his videos).

You can make it work kind of with some tradeoffs (in a game like The Medium I would think nice blacks and shadow details are more important than some infrequent stutters… most games where gamma issues are noticeable seem to be games where the workaround would prioritise the wrong thing IMHO) and it becomes a per game imperfect work around… so not only it comes with issues and issues come with workarounds with their own caveats, the feature should not be used as a crutch in fixed specs closed platforms (unless you are talking special 120 Hz modes maybe, 4K@120 Hz is quite a crazy setting to deserve its special case).

The CX does have the setting as I use it myself.
I get your point completely on the medium, it’s all down to user preference and I believe that is the prime example of a game I had to change to 60hz in the settings. I also think I may have turned off VRR for that game as it didn’t help it’s 30hz refresh rate really anyway. for other games I have left VRR on for months on months now and not really noticed any issues.

its just an awesome feature to have and can add an extra feature and options for users. They can switch it off if they want and are not bothered by stuttering from fps drops Or tearing.
 
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Kerotan

Member
Sure, but given some of us have OLED panels (LG) and VRR still has issues (that only C1 added some way for people to manually counteract them a bit) on those in terms of gamma (black levels and flickering), I would still prefer to wait and demand developers of console games lock framerate and ensure the games are more optimised which is why I buy console games in the first place (locked platforms and all). I have turned off VRR on my XSX (VRR is not even working in some games like Halo: Infinite at all), but I am not liking the trend of console developers using this as a crutch on a fixed specs closed console box.

I understand 120 Hz games fluctuating between 100 and 120 Hz, but not relying on VRR to fix games fluctuating between 30 and 60 Hz. Also, it might not stutter but you will still see the game speeding up and down.

See Vincent’s remarks, again, on the state of VRR here:
That thumbnail 😂🤣
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Something random in a fixed hardware?
What are you even talking about?

If you have a stress part you just optimize/change to it run better on fixed hardware.

The hardware is fixed... the same for all... there is nothing random happening... everything the Developer tested is what the end-user will experience.

One of the advantages of fixed hardware development is not having any random variable.
I think he meant something random that the user can do, like when in open worlds game you create enough chaos to tank the framerate like causing a lot of explosions with physics involved or having a fuckton of npcs fighting each other or 5 star wanted on gta5 when fucking tanks try to catch you destroying half city in the mean time etc.

Devs can't really predict all the shit that gamers are gonna do, not enough betatesting time for that.

Like for example i started just cause 4 yesterday and just in the first 3 hours the chances of absolutely tanking the framerate by causing too much chaos are always there, it was probably the same on console, and it is the same with any game with a lot of physics\chaos involved.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
The CX does have the setting as I use it myself.
I get your point completely on the medium, it’s all down to user preference and I believe that is the prime example of a game I had to change to 60hz in the settings. I also think I may have turned off VRR for that game as it didn’t help it’s 30hz refresh rate really anyway. for other games I have left VRR on for months on months now and not really noticed any issues.

its just an awesome feature to have and can add an extra feature and options for users. They can switch it off if they want and are not bothered by stuttering from fps drops Or tearing.
I still feel we are accepting something of a crutch, with many caveats, instead of demanding more optimised 30 and 60 Hz settings from fixed specs closed console boxes. They should not stutter and tear like crazy to begin with.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
I still feel we are accepting something of a crutch, with many caveats, instead of demanding more optimised 30 and 60 Hz settings from fixed specs closed console boxes. They should not stutter and tear like crazy to begin with.

Developers/Publishers do what they want and have been doing so for this and the previous two generations. Even Nintendo who are lauded for locked framerates released Links Awakening which has massive frame drops and BOTW turning into a shit show inside Korok Forest.
 
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DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I still feel we are accepting something of a crutch, with many caveats, instead of demanding more optimised 30 and 60 Hz settings from fixed specs closed console boxes. They should not stutter and tear like crazy to begin with.

Yes, on oled it is not ideal due to the level of blacks oled offers. It is not 100 percent perfect but it will get there. I think it does need to be improved, hdmi 2.1 was quite rushed but for me the impact has been minimal on my OLED and I personally would prefer VRR over not having it.

I look forward to it being added on the ps5 and I will use it as soon as it arrives.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yes, on oled it is not ideal due to the level of blacks oled offers. It is not 100 percent perfect but it will get there. I think it does need to be improved, hdmi 2.1 was quite rushed but for me the impact has been minimal on my OLED and I personally would prefer VRR over not having it.

I look forward to it being added on the ps5 and I will use it as soon as it arrives.
I will wait for a TV that makes VRR effortless and still deliver OLED like true blacks, so ai have it disabled now for XSX and will keep it disabled for PS5 :(. I feel like my C9 is still good enough and I want a jump from it like the one I got for the Sony Bravia 43’’ (Android, 3DTV) I had to it before updating.
 

DenchDeckard

Gold Member
I will wait for a TV that makes VRR effortless and still deliver OLED like true blacks, so ai have it disabled now for XSX and will keep it disabled for PS5 :(. I feel like my C9 is still good enough and I want a jump from it like the one I got for the Sony Bravia 43’’ (Android, 3DTV) I had to it before updating.

C9 is a beast of a TV and has the full 48gbps hdmi 2.1 ports.

Do you really notice VRR flicker on your TV outside of the medium?

It would be nice if they add the setting that they did on CX and C1 to the C9. I can't see why they can't :/
 

omegasc

Member
I will wait for a TV that makes VRR effortless and still deliver OLED like true blacks, so ai have it disabled now for XSX and will keep it disabled for PS5 :(. I feel like my C9 is still good enough and I want a jump from it like the one I got for the Sony Bravia 43’’ (Android, 3DTV) I had to it before updating.
I use a C9 as well - I still love it! - and don't feel the gamma issue is distracting, as it is mostly happening during dark loading screens on PC games. Hopefully that is the case with PS5 as well, since framerates are pretty much stable, at least on current games.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
It is pretty telling that all the people against vrr in here are ps5 users or just sony fanboys

You can't make this shit up lmao.

I bet that if ps5 had vrr since the beginning nobody would say shit against it.

I mean, i hope this is the reason because otherwise this could be the most summer childness\fairy tale believing topic ever...

I hope you all have your ticket train for framewarts ready in your pocket.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is pretty telling that all the people against vrr in here are ps5 users or just sony fanboys

You can't make this shit up lmao.

I bet that if ps5 had vrr since the beginning nobody would say shit againt it.

I mean, i hope this is the reason because otherwise this could be the most summer childness\fairy tale believing topic ever...

I hope you all have your ticket train for framewarts ready in your pocket.

Get over yourself steering the thread towards console warring angle. You want it to be the reason as you are seeing this in partisan / football like lenses. More power to you and those that what are we supposed to say are making a big fuss about positives of VRR and ignoring how it is a mostly rushed standard with still things to workaround and caveats just because one console does. It have it? Have it your way, see it as a console war thing and accuse others, fill your boots. Campanilismo…

No, it is way more likely I am under using my XSX’s potential when I play with it just to make sure I enjoy it less and do not miss VRR when I switch to the PS5, yeah… that is the ticket. Issues with VRR and the caveats with the workarounds (some of which are not even possible on my C9) are for sure the less likely issue :rolleyes:.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
I think he meant something random that the user can do, like when in open worlds game you create enough chaos to tank the framerate like causing a lot of explosions with physics involved or having a fuckton of npcs fighting each other or 5 star wanted on gta5 when fucking tanks try to catch you destroying half city in the mean time etc.

Devs can't really predict all the shit that gamers are gonna do, not enough betatesting time for that.

Like for example i started just cause 4 yesterday and just in the first 3 hours the chances of absolutely tanking the framerate by causing too much chaos are always there, it was probably the same on console, and it is the same with any game with a lot of physics\chaos involved.
That is why developers have limitations to what can happen in screen… the physics is not free to do what it wants… that is not how it works.

Developer is in control of what happen even in supposed “caos” situations… in fact that “caos” was coded by the developer to happen.

If a developer left a physic/“chaos” situation that will tank a fixed hardware than he is doing something very wrong with it code.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Get over yourself steering the thread towards console warring angle. You want it to be the reason as you are seeing this in partisan / football like lenses. More power to you and those that what are we supposed to say are making a big fuss about positives of VRR and ignoring how it is a mostly rushed standard with still things to workaround and caveats just because one console does. It have it? Have it your way, see it as a console war thing and accuse others, fill your boots. Campanilismo…

No, it is way more likely I am under using my XSX potential when I play with it just to make sure I enjoy it less and do not miss VRR when I switch to the PS5, yeah… that is the ticket. Issues with VRR and the caveats with the workarounds (some of which are not even possible on my C9) are for sure the less likely issue :rolleyes:.
I have a ps5 and not an xbox, how is this console warring?!

Because i state facts like only sony users talking shit about vrr while pc\xbox users are all on board?! Truth can be hard to hear, i know.

People in here know that i gives 2 fucks about console war since i can play everything on my ps5, switch and pc, i talk shit about everyone when they deserve it, and sony deserve it.

I can also comment on people dreaming about a fairy tale world with locked framerates on console all the fuck i want, people say stupid shit, they get the burn, this is not pat on the back reeeeee, sorry mate.


Mods are gonna decide if stating facts with a bit of humor is console war or not, but nice try dude.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
That is why developers have limitations to what can happen in screen… the physics is not free to do what it wants… that is not how it works.

Developer is in control of what happen even in supposed “caos” situations… in fact that “caos” was coded by the developer to happen.

If a developer left a physic/“chaos” situation that will tank a fixed hardware than he is doing something very wrong with it code.
Yep, this is why you can literally tank framerates in any game where you can generate chaos, because all the variables are fixed and under devs control...have you ever played stuff like jc4? Have you any idea of the absolute chaos you can generate in that game?

The betatesters have years to test any possible scenario in dynamic games and that's why majority of games get released with perfect perfomances and zero bugs.


Like i said before

 
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kyliethicc

Member
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I have a ps5 and not an xbox, how is this console warring?!

Because i state facts like only sony users talking shit about vrr while pc\xbox users are all on board?! Truth can be hard to hear, i know.

People in here know that i gives 2 fucks about console war since i can play everything on my ps5, switch and pc, i talk shit about everyone when they deserve it, and sony deserve it.

I can also comment on people dreaming about a fairy tale world with locked framerates on console all the fuck i want, people say stupid shit, they get the burn, sorry mate.


Mods are gonna decide if stating facts with a bit of humor is console war or not, but nice try dude.
Ok, so you go around accusing people of console warring unless they bow to the VRR is perfect and perfect is VRR and … ah yeah, “banter yeah, just banter mate” as a followup. Sure… About your fairy tales dreaming, I disagree and just call it having expectations and standards.
Still, if you never complain about something Sony, MS, or others do not do that is “proper” (lack of cross platform multiplayer? Fairy tale dream to expect otherwise… Not being able to use a DS4 on PS5 for PS5 games? Fairy tale dreams to expect other wise…. Etc… you can fit in a lot here) then sure I can take your argument in good faith.

I do not care that much why you posted the way you did. You made a crappy over generalisation and got called out on it (as a multiplatform owner with an XSX on top of a Switch, 3DS, Wii U, etc…), using your rules one could equally say that the Xbox fans and PC ones are mostly using copium and lording it over the PS5 ones because PS5 lacks it (any weapon is a good weapon)… since you are using inducting logic both arguments are quite equivalent (or unfounded depending on how you look at it, but sure, if VRR had been in PS5 since day 0 there would be less fanboys fighting to defend its honour or to dismiss it and more people focusing on VRR itself and how TV manufacturers are implementing it).
 
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Blizzje

Member
So what setting should I use on my C1 to make the negative impact of VRR that you guys are talking about as small as possible?
 

ethomaz

Banned
Yep, this is why you can literally tank framerates in any game where you can generate chaos, because all the variables are fixed and under devs control...have you ever played stuff like jc4? Have you any idea of the absolute chaos you can generate in that game?

The betatesters have years to test any possible scenario in dynamic games and that's why majority of games get released with perfect perfomances and zero bugs.


Like i said before

Yes all variables are in dev control in a fixed hardware.

In PC it is open to user choose the level of physics/“chaos” because there you can use different hardware setup and devs can’t predict what you be using.

That PC mindset on console game is really something else lol
 

Haggard

Member
Yes all variables are in dev control in a fixed hardware.
Bullshit.
Games are dynamic by nature.
Either you restrict user actions or have some very aggressive dynamic resolution/effect scaling or you have to live with fps fluctuation.
VRR as in standardized hardware communication is something that should be the standard, not forceful restrictions.
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
It is pretty telling that all the people against vrr in here are ps5 users or just sony fanboys

You can't make this shit up lmao.

I bet that if ps5 had vrr since the beginning nobody would say shit against it.

I mean, i hope this is the reason because otherwise this could be the most summer childness\fairy tale believing topic ever...

I hope you all have your ticket train for framewarts ready in your pocket.


Fixed hardware didn't seem to help here, or Dirt 5 or Valhalla.
I don't know how they can deny this sort of stuff happens regularly.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Bullshit.
Games are dynamic by nature.
Either you restrict user actions or have some very aggressive dynamic resolution/effect scaling or you have to live with fps fluctiation.
VRR is something that should be the standard, not forceful restrictions.
There is nothing dynamic at all.
You basically code what looks dynamic.

No game code create things dynamically... it create things limited to have the feel of dynamism... it is fixed coded to generate everything you see on screen.

But I guess you think dynamic is when you use a variable with a random value to end generating something... well that variable have a range (min and max) that limit what it can generate.
 
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Haggard

Member
There is nothing dynamic at all.
You basically code what looks dynamic.
Are we at the point where you pretend to be completely oblivious of how any kind of 3d engine works already?
Well, at least you made it clear early where this is going....

No game code create things dynamically... it create things limited to have the feel of dynamism... it is fixed coded to generate everything you see on screen.

But I guess you think dynamic is when you use a variable with a random value to end generating something... well that variable have a range (min and max) that limit what it can generate.
I´ve been a software architect for 15 years now and this just gave me a stroke....


pointless.
Have a good day.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Yes all variables are in dev control in a fixed hardware.

In PC it is open to user choose the level of physics/“chaos” because there you can use different hardware setup and devs can’t predict what you be using.

That PC mindset on console game is really something else lol
So any open world dev in existence is happy and in complete control when players tank the framerate in their games?

And how all of this fair well with your dream of having locked framerate in any game??
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Are we at the point that we pretend to be completely oblivious of how any kind of 3d engine works already?
Well, at least you made it clear early that a discussion with you is worthless.
Have a good day.
I'm not sure what even you are trying to say.
If a 3D engine go over the capabilities of a hardware it is because the dev made it to do that.
 

ethomaz

Banned
So any open world dev in existence is happy and in complete control when players tank the framerate in their games?

And how all of this fair well with your dream of having locked framerate in any game??
Yes any open world dev have full control of it open world game code.
It tanks framerate because they let it happen not optimizing or setting the level required to have a fixed framerate.

You know locked framerate is just when all parts of the game no matter what happen in your game (the extreme situation of "chaos" lol) is set to run over the target framerate.

After all you are in a console fixed hardware and know exactly what your hardware target is... and so can test exactly what it will happen in extreme situations.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yes any open world dev have full control of it open world game code.
It tanks framerate because they let it happen not optimizing or setting the level required to have a fixed framerate.

You know locked framerate is just when all parts of the game no matter what is set to run over the target framerate.

Exactly, framerate is a design choice. If you care about a locked 60 FPS framerate (or virtually locked, if you have dips in 0.1% of the cases or something like that it is virtually locked), you design the game around sustaining a target well above 60 FPS (you basically restrict the frame time budget) and collect metric during play testing to see how often you get close to 60 FPS and how low you get and actively try to introduce and optimise against stress tests… this is not even assuming good use of DRS either.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Ok, so you go around accusing people of console warring unless they bow to the VRR is perfect and perfect is VRR and … ah yeah, “banter yeah, just banter mate” as a followup. Sure… About your fairy tales dreaming, I disagree and just call it having expectations and standards.
Still, if you never complain about something Sony, MS, or others do not do that is “proper” (lack of cross platform multiplayer? Fairy tale dream to expect otherwise… Not being able to use a DS4 on PS5 for PS5 games? Fairy tale dreams to expect other wise…. Etc… you can fit in a lot here) then sure I can take your argument in good faith.

I do not care that much why you posted the way you did. You made a crappy over generalisation and got called out on it (as a multiplatform owner with an XSX on top of a Switch, 3DS, Wii U, etc…), using your rules one could equally say that the Xbox fans and PC ones are mostly using copium and lording it over the PS5 ones because PS5 lacks it (any weapon is a good weapon)… since you are using inducting logic both arguments are quite equivalent (or unfounded depending on how you look at it, but sure, if VRR had been in PS5 since day 0 there would be less fanboys fighting to defend its honour or to dismiss it and more people focusing on VRR itself and how TV manufacturers are implementing it).
first of all, i never said that vrr is perfect, but you also know that top tier TVs already have some sort of fix and the problems are less noticeable than people believe and they are gonna disappear completely in the next years, and most important thing, vrr is a feature THAT YOU CAN TURN OFF, imagine being against or even arguing something that you are not forced to use...if this doesn't sound to you like something that a fanboy could say in a forum to defend his digital momma, then you have to pay more attention, the fact that all the people on pc\xbox who regularly use vrr\gsync in a modern quality screen are on board is just the ice on the cake of my argument.

Second, we are both grown men, we know what dreams are possible and what are not, asking for crossplay is possible, being able to use ds4 on ps5 is the simpler shit ever to ask, but locked framerate (REALLY LOCKED) in all games both from first and third parties, AA, crappy indies etc. when we have what? 30 years of uneven framerates in 95% of gameson the market? if that is not a dream that i can't consider "stupid shit" i don't know what is...do i sound a bit harsh? yes, that was my intention dude, this is how you respond to people who make dream worlds arguments, a bit of mocking never killed anyone and last time i checked, we still have a bit of freedom here on gaf.
 
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assurdum

Member
I would imagine that's what happens when one next gen console supports a next gen feature since launch that the other failed to support. It was often cited as a clear advantage over the other platform because it was for gamers with supported displays.

It's far from the last of Xbox Series X related advantages people will be hearing mentioned as we get further into the generation.
We are still waiting to see all those advantage in action of the XSX hardware. Outside more native pixels via DRS, I don't get it exactly what majestic achievement people like you expect to see in the next years not possible on ps5. The MS PR marketing really blow many minds lol.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Exactly, framerate is a design choice. If you care about a locked 60 FPS framerate (or virtually locked, if you have dips in 0.1% of the cases or something like that it is virtually locked), you design the game around sustaining a target well above 60 FPS (you basically restrict the frame time budget) and collect metric during play testing to see how often you get close to 60 FPS and how low you get and actively try to introduce and optimise against stress tests… this is not even assuming good use of DRS either.
Oh good, so instead of having something like vrr that can help devs realizing their dream games without worrying about framerates, we limit developers and physics, and number of ia interaction or anything that can tank the framerate because we don't wanna use a free technology for whatever made up reason or impossible standards you people have...

I'm done here 🕺
 
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Haggard

Member
Exactly, framerate is a design choice. If you care about a locked 60 FPS framerate (or virtually locked, if you have dips in 0.1% of the cases or something like that it is virtually locked), you design the game around sustaining a target well above 60 FPS (you basically restrict the frame time budget) and collect metric during play testing to see how often you get close to 60 FPS and how low you get and actively try to introduce and optimise against stress tests… this is not even assuming good use of DRS either.
and that kind of extra expense and all around restrictive design is supposed to be a good thing compared to standardized hardware communication that simply makes the issue obsolete?

You have to be a very special kind of person to get to that conclusion.....
 
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Chukhopops

Member
Tales of Arise is also an example of a game which looks noticeably better in Quality mode, especially for LOD / Shadow distance. Running it in quality mode at 60 fps during normal gameplay and dropping at 50 during combat is much better than using Perf mode.

Not to mention, the framerate test is in the early game, later you have double the characters on screen and double the enemies.
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Tales of Arise is also an example of a game which looks noticeably better in Quality mode, especially for LOD / Shadow distance. Running it in quality mode at 60 fps during normal gameplay and dropping at 50 during combat is much better than using Perf mode.

Not to mention, the framerate test is in the early game, later you have double the characters on screen and double the enemies.

This is a crossgen game with dips. A prelude of things to come. These guys in here talk about how things should be and not what they are.
 
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DenchDeckard

Gold Member
So what setting should I use on my C1 to make the negative impact of VRR that you guys are talking about as small as possible?

switch on VRR on your Xbox or pc hooked up via hdmi and see if you notice flickering outside of loading screens. If you do then try bumping up the setting a few notches until it is less noticeable but try keep the number as low as possible so you don’t affect the beautiful blacks of OLED Too much. if you increase it too high you are basically edging into LED or IPs levels of backlight glow.
 
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Blizzje

Member
switch on VRR on your Xbox or pc hooked up via hdmi and see if you notice flickering outside of loading screens. If you do then try bumping up the setting a few notches until it is less noticeable but try keep the number as low as possible so you don’t affect the beautiful blacks of OLED Too much. if you increase it too high you are basically edging into LED or IPs levels of backlight glow.
'Bumping up the settings'. What kind of settings? Sorry, new to this.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yes, on oled it is not ideal due to the level of blacks oled offers. It is not 100 percent perfect but it will get there. I think it does need to be improved, hdmi 2.1 was quite rushed but for me the impact has been minimal on my OLED and I personally would prefer VRR over not having it.

I look forward to it being added on the ps5 and I will use it as soon as it arrives.
What do you mean HDMI 2.1 was rushed out? It’s actually functioned pretty well in my C9 which is the first consumer product that supported it.
 
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