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Wait a second, does Vader realize who he is speaking to at the beginning of ANH?

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And going along with this thought, if Vader doesn't know that is his daughter at that point in the story, at what point of the classic trilogy does he make the connection that she is his daughter?

"Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... sister. So, you have a twin sister." ~Vader in ROTJ

When does Leia realize Vader is her father?

"My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too." ~Luke in ROTJ
 
”The force is strong with this one!", through two spaceships, in battle, without even seeing the person. You'd think he'd feel the same with Leia since her maydayclaritine count is equal with Luke!!
Luke was actively using the Force to pilot the X-Wing while receiving guidance from Obi-Wan at the point when Vader says that.

The only time you could say Leia uses the Force is at the end of ESB when Luke calls to her hanging from Cloud City.
 
lmao is this true? If so, it would explain why the twist works so well in Empire -- even the filmmakers didn't know about in ANH!

And also explains why Obi-Wan calls him "Darth" in their confrontation, he was literally calling him by his first name as far as the original ANH script was concerned.
 
I vaguely recall someone (maybe even George) saying that Luke's twin sister would be brought in in RotJ as anothet Force using ally, but it was so jarring to suddenly have a character that important appear in the final story of the trilogy so they just said it was Leia, and that also meant no hard feelings for Han and Leia getting together because Luke and Leia were siblings.
 
Luke was actively using the Force to pilot the X-Wing while receiving guidance from Obi-Wan at the point when Vader says that.

The only time you could say Leia uses the Force is at the end of ESB when Luke calls to her hanging from Cloud City.
Makes sense. Perhaps the empire should've made a 10 second midiclarinet blood test part of the torture process when extracting information.
 
In the first film, Vader was just some really cool looking bad guy. No one had even considered he was Leah's father. The simplicity of the plot is why I like ANH the best. It was a perfect standalone film that involved an evil empire, space samurai's, a nazi general, a princess with plans for a giant death weapon, and a kid from the boonies who ends up a war hero.
"You know Leah, we really are the Stars of Wars! "
 
it's a very common name.

Though yeah, if Obi Wan sent him to Tatooine to hide him, you'd think changing his name would be priority number 1.
The real question is why does Obi Wan send Leia to a rich royal family and Luke to Vader's original home world to live in poverty and slavery, then move there himself if he wasn't planning on keeping an eye on him?

Why didn't the twins both go to live together with Jimmy Smitts? Why separate them? And why put Luke in the most obvious place? Yes I know Anakin would probably be more likely to avoid Tattoine because of his hatred for sand, but that's a chance you shouldn't take.

Of course had Luke been with Leia the whole time, would he have become prince and would he have possibly been on Alderaan when it was destroyed? Hopefully he'd have been on his own diplomatic mission and dodged a bullet. But then again he wouldn't have met Han and Chewie and Obi Wan and Yoda later.

But really, Obi Wan's an asshole. Even if you separate them, don't make it a rich kid/poor kid thing. Put Luke with a different royal family elsewhere. There's plenty of planets that aren't covered in sand.
 
Also Luke and Leia are fraternal twins not identical so there's no gurantee they have the same Force potential, fraternal twins can have different blood types. There's nothing in the films at least that explicitly says she is as powerful as Luke, only that she has some Force potential.
 
I'll just take this opportunity to say it for the 100,000th time that making Leia and Luke brother and sister was one of the most needlessly stupid dumb pointless decisions ever.

They just had to ride the "Luke I am your father" train didn't they. They just had to cash in on it again.

It's way way worse than any prequel retroactive midichlorian bullshit, because it completely changes the first two movies and just makes 10000 questions like this one pop up.
 
Not even George Lucas knew Leia was Vader's daughter at that point.

Yup. And no one was concerned about any of Vader's children yet since he wasn't yet decided to be Anakin. Vader was just a random space baddie.

It'd be like wondering who Captain Phasma's daughter is right now.
 
The real question is why does Obi Wan send Leia to a rich royal family and Luke to Vader's original home world to live in poverty and slavery, then move there himself if he wasn't planning on keeping an eye on him?

Why didn't the twins both go to live together with Jimmy Smitts? Why separate them? And why put Luke in the most obvious place? Yes I know Anakin would probably be more likely to avoid Tattoine because of his hatred for sand, but that's a chance you shouldn't take.

Of course had Luke been with Leia the whole time, would he have become prince and would he have possibly been on Alderaan when it was destroyed? Hopefully he'd have been on his own diplomatic mission and dodged a bullet. But then again he wouldn't have met Han and Chewie and Obi Wan and Yoda later.

But really, Obi Wan's an asshole. Even if you separate them, don't make it a rich kid/poor kid thing. Put Luke with a different royal family elsewhere. There's plenty of planets that aren't covered in sand.
I'm thinking the idea was to bait Anakin into going after Luke, who they have out in plain sight, so that he wouldn't even bother to consider Leia.

Of course, instead, he gave no fucks about either of them.
 
The real question is why does Obi Wan send Leia to a rich royal family and Luke to Vader's original home world to live in poverty and slavery, then move there himself if he wasn't planning on keeping an eye on him?

Why didn't the twins both go to live together with Jimmy Smitts? Why separate them? And why put Luke in the most obvious place? Yes I know Anakin would probably be more likely to avoid Tattoine because of his hatred for sand, but that's a chance you shouldn't take.

Of course had Luke been with Leia the whole time, would he have become prince and would he have possibly been on Alderaan when it was destroyed? Hopefully he'd have been on his own diplomatic mission and dodged a bullet. But then again he wouldn't have met Han and Chewie and Obi Wan and Yoda later.

But really, Obi Wan's an asshole. Even if you separate them, don't make it a rich kid/poor kid thing. Put Luke with a different royal family elsewhere. There's plenty of planets that aren't covered in sand.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket, literally. Splitting them up means if the Sith discover one the other is still safe.

Also I'm not sure that Yoda and Obi-Wan knew Anakin had survived when they decided to send Luke to Tatooine.
 
Don't put all your eggs in one basket, literally. Splitting them up means if the Sith discover one the other is still safe.

Also I'm not sure that Yoda and Obi-Wan knew Anakin had survived when they decided to send Luke to Tatooine.

The question I always thought of was why didn't Obi-Wan actually finish off Anakin when he had the chance? Couldn't bring himself to actually kill him? Assumed he died from his burns? Obviously the story calls for Anakin to survive, but never thought it made a whole lot of sense for him to just leave what was his best friend there writhing in agony.
 
The question I always thought of was why didn't Obi-Wan actually finish off Anakin when he had the chance? Couldn't bring himself to actually kill him? Assumed he died from his burns? Obviously the story calls for Anakin to survive, but never thought it made a whole lot of sense for him to just leave what was his best friend there writhing in agony.

For all his accolades Obi-Wan really isn't a "good" Jedi. Dude is more similar to Anakin than he likes to admit. If such a concept existed back when the original trilogy came out I'm sure he'd classify himself as a Gray Jedi.

He loves Anakin but there must be a small part of him that wanted to prolong his suffering as much as possible.
 
1257331281_vader-leiabusfn.gif
Lmao
 
The question I always thought of was why didn't Obi-Wan actually finish off Anakin when he had the chance? Couldn't bring himself to actually kill him? Assumed he died from his burns? Obviously the story calls for Anakin to survive, but never thought it made a whole lot of sense for him to just leave what was his best friend there writhing in agony.

Not really sure, he does explicitly tell Yoda he won't kill Anakin, probably just decides to leave it to the will of the Force and was more concerned with getting Padme help.
 
In the first film, Vader was just some really cool looking bad guy. No one had even considered he was Leia's father. The simplicity of the plot is why I like ANH the best. It was a perfect standalone film that involved an evil empire, space samurai's, a nazi general, a princess with plans for a giant death weapon, and a kid from the boonies who ends up a war hero.

well put. all bout that simplicity
 
it's a very common name.

Though yeah, if Obi Wan sent him to Tatooine to hide him, you'd think changing his name would be priority number 1.
And not sending him to literally the only "family" that dear old dad had left.

Good the prequels have gaping plot holes

Real talk though, the Darth Vader comic, the newest one, is 🔥🔥🔥🔥
 
"Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for... sister. So, you have a twin sister." ~Vader in ROTJ



"My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too." ~Luke in ROTJ

It's like they literally tell you when they figure it out. It's not rocket surgery.
 
lmao is this true? If so, it would explain why the twist works so well in Empire -- even the filmmakers didn't know about in ANH!

Most of the cast didn't even know about the twist while filming ESB, including David Prowse who played Vader (minus voice).
It is hard to imagine now, but the fact that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker’s father was a big secret that the filmmakers went to great lengths to protect from getting leaked. According to Hamill, only George Lucas, Irwin Kershner, and himself knew when they were filming, in addition to James Earl Jones, who would later speak the famous lines.
Hamill claimed that he needed to know so that his reaction would be believable, but was warned by Kershner that if he told anyone, including his costars Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford, they would know that he had leaked the story. On set, David Prowse had been instructed to say “Obi-Wan killed your father,” so a majority of the technicians, actors, and crew members did not know the truth until the film premiered.

IIRC Prowse learnt about it while watching the first cut with Lucas, and the latter laughed his ass off when Prowse shouted "WHAT !?".
 
It's funny in the final duel in ROTJ how Darth keeps saying how well Obi Wan has taught Luke. Yoda must be spinning in his blue astral form!
 
I vaguely recall someone (maybe even George) saying that Luke's twin sister would be brought in in RotJ as anothet Force using ally, but it was so jarring to suddenly have a character that important appear in the final story of the trilogy so they just said it was Leia, and that also meant no hard feelings for Han and Leia getting together because Luke and Leia were siblings.

Yeah, Leia being Luke's sister is one of the few problems that I have with RotJ that keeps it a bit below the first two films, despite how much I love the space battle and throne room.

It's such a copout to avoid resolving the Luke/Leia/Han love triangle. The sister scenes on Dagobah and Endor's moon were both junk that added nothing to the movie. Instead you could have had the Emperor actually tempting Luke with something, the power to make Leia his, when he knows that he's losing the battle for her heart otherwise. Could have had some great character moments where he instead gives up on his unrequited love and chooses to devote himself to becoming a jedi and restoring the order.

The other big one is that the ewoks should have been wookies. I don't have as big of a problem with ewoks as most people, but wookie slaves just would have worked so much better. You would have given both Chewie and Han much needed relevance in the film where they have to convince the beaten down slave laborers to rise up against their oppressors, and brought in Han's backstory of having saved Chewie at the expense of his Imperial career.

There's nothing like this in either ANH or ESB, where I wouldn't change anything. They're both perfect movies in my opinion.
 
Yup. And no one was concerned about any of Vader's children yet since he wasn't yet decided to be Anakin. Vader was just a random space baddie.

It'd be like wondering who Captain Phasma's daughter is right now.


Vader was just a space baddie in ANH? Ill have to watch it again (again this week) but i think the duel with obi wan has a few lines about both sharing a past
 
Vader was just a space baddie in ANH? Ill have to watch it again (again this week) but i think the duel with obi wan has a few lines about both sharing a past
He's a rogue Jedi they explain that when he says he killed Luke's father. So they had history at that point but not in the way it was after ESB
 
It's such a copout to avoid resolving the Luke/Leia/Han love triangle.

There is no love triangle that needed resolving, sister twist or not there is nothing between Luke and Leia. Leia clearly loves Han in ESB and Luke other than being on the receving end of a jokey kiss shows no feelings for Leia in that way.
 
Vader was just a space baddie in ANH? Ill have to watch it again (again this week) but i think the duel with obi wan has a few lines about both sharing a past

Yes, they shared a past. Obi Wan trained a Jedi named Vader who went renegade. That's it.

Nothing about Vader being Luke's father or being Anakin Skywalker was planned when they filmed that movie.
 
There is a reason it was just called Star Wars not episode IV or A New Hope.

Lucas never had any ideas for a sequel until the original made a shitload of money.
 
There is no love triangle that needed resolving, sister twist or not there is nothing between Luke and Leia. Leia clearly loves Han in ESB and Luke other than being on the receving end of a jokey kiss shows no feelings for Leia in that way.

What? Luke clearly had feelings for Leia in ANH. He's captivated by her in every scene. From her hologram to their cell meeting to his defensiveness when Han teases him on the Falcon to her kiss in the hangar. ESB is more ambiguous, but there are still plenty of signs there.

Maybe it's harder to notice when everyone knows that she's his sister.
 
It would have been funny if Vader reading Luke's mind in ROTJ went like "So you have a girlfriend... Your sexual feelings for her have betrayed you..."

But more seriously, I always hear people mention that Luke's original sister would have been a focus in Episodes VII-VIII-IX, but it seems not many people know that her name was actually explicitly mentioned in the ESB plot draft. It was Nellith Skywalker.
 
What? Luke clearly had feelings for Leia in ANH. He's captivated by her in every scene. From her hologram to their cell meeting to his defensiveness when Han teases him on the Falcon to her kiss in the hangar. ESB is more ambiguous, but there are still plenty of signs there.

Maybe it's harder to notice when everyone knows that she's his sister.

There are not "plenty" of signs in ESB. They had clearly decided it was to be Han and Leia and Luke was going to be focused on being a Jedi. It doesn't get much clearer than Leia telling Han she loves him.

Luke doesn't have actual feelings for Leia in ANH, he's just captivated by a pretty girl. He doesn't actually know her, he's just some farm boy who's probably never seen anyone like her before. It doesn't make it love, there is nothing of substance there and there's nothing to suggest Leia has feelings for him in ANH.
 
There is a reason it was just called Star Wars not episode IV or A New Hope.

Lucas never had any ideas for a sequel until the original made a shitload of money.

That's not entirely true, and yet you are still half right.

Lucas did have a much larger story than in the original movie - he had a whole story bible notebook and multiple movies worth of story - but it certainly wasn't the plan that we actually saw realized in I-VI.

Lucas did know the original movie might be a one-off...And yet he did want "Episode IV - A New Hope" on the original movie, but Fox (or the common sense of the day) wouldn't let him.

Lucas didn't necessarily want the title "Episode IV" on the movie because he had concrete plans for a I-III and V-VI, but because he loved the feeling he had walking into saturday morning serials like Buck Rogers when they were already on Episode XII and he had no idea what what happening. Or the feeling of watching The Hidden Fortress and not knowing shit about Japanese history. He liked that feeling of wandering into the middle of the story knowing fuck-all about the world, and having to catch up anyway. A New Hope is definitely that kind of movie that starts in media res and doesn't quite conclude the overall story... If that's the only movie that were ever made, Lucas would have felt satisfaction that it worked on that level. And so "Episode IV" was kind of a clever nod that it was the middle part of some sprawling saga you'd never see the whole of. Very clever for 1977.

But you are right in that Lucas didn't exactly know where it was going. In the evidence we have of his original notebook "bible", it was a whole lot of random crap that didn't necessarily make it into the movies. It's a typical pie-in-the-sky notebook of random ideas. Sure, if given the chance, he'd fill in I-III and V+... but he'd essentially have to make it up as he went along....
 
Vader literally means father in Dutch, and George Lucas himself said Vader was always meant as a variant of Father before ANH was shot.

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...he-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602#ixzz3omEOdJNc

That may be Lucas retconning his own life but still.
George Lucas also said that American Graffiti is a remake of I Vitelloni.
George Lucas says a lot of things.

As a side note, I never understood why would he or some fans insist on this point, it's just a question of process, some writers plan everything in advance some don't, neither approach in inherently better.
There are some great writers who have no idea where the story will take them when they start writing. I guess maybe part of it comes from the desire of some people to think of these movies as a peek into this fully formed universe. I don't know, I think they're just, you know, movies.

That's not entirely true, and yet you are still half right.

Lucas did have a much larger story than in the original movie - he had a whole story bible notebook and multiple movies worth of story - but it certainly wasn't the plan that we actually saw realized in I-VI.

Lucas did know the original movie might be a one-off...And yet he did want "Episode IV - A New Hope" on the original movie, but Fox (or the common sense of the day) wouldn't let him.

Lucas didn't necessarily want the title "Episode IV" on the movie because he had concrete plans for a I-III and V-VI, but because he loved the feeling he had walking into saturday morning serials like Buck Rogers when they were already on Episode XII and he had no idea what what happening. Or the feeling of watching The Hidden Fortress and not knowing shit about Japanese history. He liked that feeling of wandering into the middle of the story knowing fuck-all about the world, and having to catch up anyway. A New Hope is definitely that kind of movie that starts in media res and doesn't quite conclude the overall story... If that's the only movie that were ever made, Lucas would have felt satisfaction that it worked on that level. And so "Episode IV" was kind of a clever nod that it was the middle part of some sprawling saga you'd never see the whole of. Very clever for 1977.

But you are right in that Lucas didn't exactly know where it was going. In the evidence we have of his original notebook "bible", it was a whole lot of random crap that didn't necessarily make it into the movies. It's a typical pie-in-the-sky notebook of random ideas.
I'll admit, I haven't dug super deep into the history of the making of Star Wars. I saw a documentary once, and was exposed to some other info through videos and articles over the years, but nothing really exhaustive.
But I've seen the film, and nothing on screen suggests that this story is anything but your standard standalone adventure with very obvious calls to serials like Flash Gordon (which is what he originally wanted to make, right?),
Maybe it was all studio execs meddling, I didn't get the sense that it happened to a large degree, but again, not an expert, but if it was, I think it was for the best. And I know it's not a really popular opinion, but I kinda wish Star Wars stayed like that.
 
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