SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
Preach.
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Want to live forever? You probably will have that option!
- Thread starter Kimawolf
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Preach.
half a moon
Banned
It'll probably be a select few. The 1% aren't going to just let immortality slip by. They know how to control luxuries. Put a price tag on it.
Of course it's plausible. The question though, is if it's plausible within our lifetime, which I dont think it is.
Bluekaveli
Member
Let's do this!
I'm ready for this future. And even if you aren't ready, it will come either way.
Ironically, higher life expectancy only means the chance for me to die "stupidly" (in an accident, by murder or terror attack) are going to be higher and higher.
Resources are finite for now, because we can't conquer the space cost effective. Once we go over the breaking point, the amount of resources is basically our solar system (and we only need a very very very small part of it).
Ironically, higher life expectancy only means the chance for me to die "stupidly" (in an accident, by murder or terror attack) are going to be higher and higher.
Making food is, in the end, a question of energy. We have lots of possibilities to make the growth of our plants and animals more efficient, to lower energy prices and thus making food production even cheaper and so on.
Resources are finite for now, because we can't conquer the space cost effective. Once we go over the breaking point, the amount of resources is basically our solar system (and we only need a very very very small part of it).
I would love to read your scientific research paper on this.
Huh? Why? Why would the world descend into total chaos?
What's the fundamental difference between living 80 years and 200 years that would make the latter a disastrous thing? And why is it so much more different from going from an average life expectancy of 30 to 80?
There can be life without death. If the organism is born into this universe and then is modified/augmented to not die, then that is an example of life without death.
Planets and stars aren't biological entities that can be extended in the same way. I mean... technically with the right tech and enough energy you could make a star go on forever, but that's besides the point. Sustaining the life of a biological entity would take far less energy and probably less far-fetched technology. Planets and stars are also not conscious agents interested in their own self preservation. You are all over the place with your comparisons. Either way you may not live forever but it is possible to extend your life long enough to the point where you aren't interested in living anymore.
Meaning is something you create for yourself. Many don't even think of life in terms of "finish lines". Perhaps you are supposed to thrive in the moment. To create, to love, to experience, to move, to feel, to understand.. it's different for everyone. 200 more years of life would allow you to thrive and grow your mind and further stamp your existence into spacetime. To me it sounds like you don't even want 5 more years, so it must be hard for you to understand those who want 200 more.
That tech won't be available until long after life extension therapies. The idea is that if you can survive by jumping from extension therapy to more fruitful extension therapy then you might be able to make it to the brain case stage.
I'm sorry but most of this is just seems like nonsense to me.
Who knows. Let's find out. What do people live for now? My day to day doesn't need to have meaning. I just live my life, finding joy out of it where I can. I love the people in my life. For me that's enough. So we explore other worlds. So we live on other planets. We evolve into something else. Who knows.
If people want to die, give them that option. But don't try and make me feel guilty because I don't want it.
People are good at surviving. We'll find a way to find balance. And if we don't, well, the people that die won't be around to care anyway if it all goes to hell.
Who knows. Let's find out. What do people live for now? My day to day doesn't need to have meaning. I just live my life, finding joy out of it where I can. I love the people in my life. For me that's enough. So we explore other worlds. So we live on other planets. We evolve into something else. Who knows.
If people want to die, give them that option. But don't try and make me feel guilty because I don't want it.
People are good at surviving. We'll find a way to find balance. And if we don't, well, the people that die won't be around to care anyway if it all goes to hell.
Maybe now society will start to seriously look at euthanasia. I don't understand why being able to end your own life on your terms if you have say, a long, painful and debilitating disease to look forward to that will only end in your death anyway is something society is averse to.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Ha, you kidding?
I'm glad I was born around the right time to die before the global warming/climate change crisis hits peak disaster levels towards the end of the century.
I'm glad I was born around the right time to die before the global warming/climate change crisis hits peak disaster levels towards the end of the century.
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
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SynthFetish
Member
This seems off by a long time, but didn't Alan Resnik come up with a way for us to 'Live forever as you are today'?
Funny you should say that because I've come to the conclusion that most people who think longer life spans would cause a number of countless catastrophic problems haven't thought about this possible future for longer than it takes to read the title of the thread.
It seems like most naysayers imagine a life changing technology, not just life extension technology, as how it would be in a vacuum. They imagine this one thing changing and everything else staying the same. However, life changing technologies change people's lives and thus societies. And if there was ever anything that would be life changing it would be literally changing people's lives by extending them.
Over population?
Why do people have/want to have children in the first place? A number of reasons of course but one of the, I think, major reasons is, because it is a matter of now or never. Certainly for women this is true.The window for a woman to have a child will close one day (this day has already been pushed further out, by the way, thanks to medical technology that's not available to just the rich). Which makes it a pressing choice that needs to be made at some point.
Also societal expectations, soft peer pressure of a kind (peers are all having children), etc.
I think the baby making landscape would certainly change somewhat, if not significantly, if the window of being able to have a baby stays open indefinitely.
Let's not forget there are already a number of countries with negative population growth.
Not enough food?
Vertical farms, factory grown meat (not animals but just the meat), genetically modified plants, etc. Technology to produce more better food is being worked on all the time. I'm not sure why people would stop innovating and inventing increasingly efficient ways to produce food. As we've done for as long as our species has been around. In fact resource gathering is basically one of the main things we excel at.
I'm not saying you're wrong but, what does it entail then, according to you?
Thanks for the link.
Any Questions
Member
In one
You have to solve the problem of our cells dying at a greater rate than they reproduce.
sechsterangriff
Member
Pretty much this. There will be a lot of misery on the second half of this century... I don't know if I would want to be here to witness it.
On the other hand, "born too soon to explore the galaxy"
In one of the articles linked they are developing nanomachines to be able to remove individual chromosomes and edit genes. Even turning cancerous cells healthy again. Its not a stretch to think we can edit genes to fix the telomere issue or simply have these machines repair cells quicker than they break down which is something else they say these same machines will be able to do.
In our lifetime tho? I just dont see it
Back in June I went to a talk at the Cheltenham Science Festival abouth this called Who Wants To Live Forever and it was pretty interesting.
Had Aubrey de Grey and Sarah Harper discussing possibilties of longer life. Sarah was a goverment advisor who was stating although official life expentancy in UK is around 82 currently, for babies born now average expactancy is 100 and above just from our diet and healthcare improvements. Said the issue would be about mental and mobility problems.
Aubrey worked in investigating "cleaning" the damage from our bodies to give you another 25 years which then gives more time for research further to continuously doing this so you will not have to be concerned with developing age related illnesses.
If people do start living 150, 200+ years what would this do to the mind?
Had Aubrey de Grey and Sarah Harper discussing possibilties of longer life. Sarah was a goverment advisor who was stating although official life expentancy in UK is around 82 currently, for babies born now average expactancy is 100 and above just from our diet and healthcare improvements. Said the issue would be about mental and mobility problems.
Aubrey worked in investigating "cleaning" the damage from our bodies to give you another 25 years which then gives more time for research further to continuously doing this so you will not have to be concerned with developing age related illnesses.
If people do start living 150, 200+ years what would this do to the mind?
SENS research foundation has recently had a paper accepted in a scientific journal. "The headline result in this paper is that we are the first team ever to get two of the proteins encoded by genes in the mitochondrial DNA simultaneously functioning in the same cell line..."
The aim is to have back up copies of the mitochondrial DNA in the genome itself.
I'm sure that has significant meaning to you since you seem to be an expert on the subject.
How much do you read about the subject and developments in the field on a weekly basis would you say?
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Apoptosis, and cell division/growth are linked and complex. Some cancers are definitely due to apaptosis not happening, leading to uncomfortable growth.
We're barely scratching the surface of genetics.
Imperfected
Member
I think people underestimate the value that corporations and the government see in people living healthy, working lives forever.
Your government is not happy that you will retire, start sponging resources, stop paying taxes, and eventually die. Your government is not happy with your children, who are going to be huge taxpayer cash sinks for eighteen years (or more) before they become productive. Your corporation is not happy to pay your retirement or maternity leave, nor to provide health coverage for your kids who don't even work for them.
There will be few people more interested in radical life extension being universal than the oligarchs. They may be assholes, but they're self-interested assholes; they aren't going to wish you dead when it's money out of their pocket.
Besides, when you're in control of the world, the possibility to have the same people in that world forever looks pretty enticing, don't you think? Beyond a certain point they're known quantities that are no threat to your control. Why let them be replaced with potentially dangerous unknowns?
Your government is not happy that you will retire, start sponging resources, stop paying taxes, and eventually die. Your government is not happy with your children, who are going to be huge taxpayer cash sinks for eighteen years (or more) before they become productive. Your corporation is not happy to pay your retirement or maternity leave, nor to provide health coverage for your kids who don't even work for them.
There will be few people more interested in radical life extension being universal than the oligarchs. They may be assholes, but they're self-interested assholes; they aren't going to wish you dead when it's money out of their pocket.
Besides, when you're in control of the world, the possibility to have the same people in that world forever looks pretty enticing, don't you think? Beyond a certain point they're known quantities that are no threat to your control. Why let them be replaced with potentially dangerous unknowns?
SDCowboy
Member
It is completely necessary with society in it's current form. If people lived forever overpopulation and mass unemployment would run wild within just a hand full of years. I'm not saying there aren't way around it to make it work. But there would have to be radical societal changes. One, by extremely limiting child birth (maybe some kind of lottery system as space opens up) and there would have to be some system in place to assure that living forever wouldn't mean having to work forever or they'd be no jobs for the mass majority of the population.
And no, I couldn't be further from being the only saying death is a necessary part of nature. Life and death is very cycle of how nature functions and survives.
You know you're not forced to work right now right? It is just a function of your personal desires and ambitions. Why would that change?
NoctisVsStar
Member
Nah I'm good I will eventually want to leave.
SDCowboy
Member
This has little to do with my point or what I said. I think you missed my point on people needing to not work forever.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I bet you pick the day you die and its a thousand years from now you would have second thoughts about it the day before the day comes.
Rushersauce
Banned
Just what we need! The same rotten ideas for the rest of this world lifespan.
Immortality is something humans should stay the fuck away from.
Immortality is something humans should stay the fuck away from.
Depends on how society changes. But if nothing changes then with money they have amassed from working and saving. If that money runs out they'd have to start working again.
I suppose you're wondering where all the jobs would come from? Good question. This is an issues we have to deal with anyway on account of the new automation revolution that will likely happen in our life times.
This could certainly be an issue. But perhaps this is a symptom of our relatively short lives right now. Maybe people will be more concerned about the near to distant future if they know they will be alive in that future.
Rushersauce
Banned
Yes, and you know why does that happen? Because of new people.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I have a feeling that if we live forever, people will stop having kids for the most part.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?
Yes I do know lots of older people who haven't changed with the times at all, but I also know lots of older people who do.
Humans have a great capacity for change even within one generation.
Linkstrikesback
Member
On the other hand, "born too soon to explore the galaxy"
We're many hundreds if not thousands of years away from that being a realistic option for Joe Bloggs, so I won't feel bad about that.
SDCowboy
Member
Exactly my point. Jobs are an issue today. Think of the issue it will be if people are living forever and there is no slowing of reproduction. Unless there was a massive societal change that was in the works for decades leading up to this, the issues of extreme and ever increasing overpopulation would compile at such a rate, I can't even fathom how quickly the world would crumble.
On top of that, do we even know how the human brain would handle living for 200 or 300+ years? How do we know if, even with a healthy brain, we'd emotionally be able to bear it? There are so many factors to this, there is no way anything like this goes into effect in the next several life times.
To all the people who think longer life is a bad idea because of over population, food shortage, etc.
Should we shut down all the hospitals of the world?
Should we stop finding ways to fight/cure cancers, Alzheimer's disease, heart disease and other chronic diseases?
If not, you realize the result of finding cures for diseases like this is almost certainly a longer life span for most people.
. Boy how the world was thrown into chaos then, but hey we manage to pull through.
Should we shut down all the hospitals of the world?
Should we stop finding ways to fight/cure cancers, Alzheimer's disease, heart disease and other chronic diseases?
If not, you realize the result of finding cures for diseases like this is almost certainly a longer life span for most people.
Good news! there is a massive societal change that has been in the works since forever. Society is always changing to accommodate society disrupting technologies. Remember when we reduced the world maternal death rate by 45%?
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