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WaPo:Trump suggests Republicans will let ACA market collapse, then rewrite health law

Zolo

Member
Jan 3, 2015
9,869
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0
Turtle isn't going to nuke the filibuster just because the orange turd said so.

Eh. He'll kill it if he feels he needs to for important legislation. I definitely think he would for this if the problem wasn't getting enough for 50 in the first place.
 

Loxley

Member
Jul 11, 2008
20,711
1
0
BBC published a short opinion piece on this that I think is pretty spot-on:

Not a good strategy - Anthony Zurcher, BBC News, Washington

Call it Mr Trump's "Joker" option for Obamacare repeal. Do nothing, and watch the world burn. Explaining how your dastardly plan will go down seldom works for cartoon villains, however, and it may not be the best strategy for presidents either.

By telling Americans he's going to let the US healthcare system collapse in order to rally support for an eventual fix, he's essentially taking responsibility for anything bad that happens in the coming days. Despite his protestations that he won't "own" what happens next, he just stuffed the receipt in his pocket.

Premiums go up? Insurance providers pull out of state individual markets? Democrats can say it's part of the president's plan to sabotage the system. All the while Mr Trump's opponents can point to the Congressional Budget Office's findings that, without White House meddling, the insurance markets would be relatively stable.

Then again, at this point, the president has few good options. His promises to eventually work with Democrats are undermined by his pledges to defeat them at the ballot box next year. He clearly can't move forward with Republicans alone.

All that's left is to walk away and hope for the worst.

If Trump is found deliberately allowing the healthcare markets to fail, his approval ratings are going to go so low they'll make Chris Christie blush.
 

Eusis

Member
Apr 15, 2011
36,666
2
705
These are the two most recent tweets from Trump:

With only a very small majority, the Republicans in the House & Senate need more victories next year since Dems totally obstruct, no votes!

The Senate must go to a 51 vote majority instead of current 60 votes. Even parts of full Repeal need 60. 8 Dems control Senate. Crazy!
Maybe that's democracy working as intended, somewhat at least, since we can't just have a slim majority easily go "well fuck your healthcare?"

Then again he is the kind of asshole who'd see that "his side" has just barely more people and act like they can do whatever they want, rather than acknowledge that this is something we're supposed to work together on and not shun the other side especially when it comes to fucking HEALTH CARE. But he's probably just an extreme case of the kind of rot infecting the Republican Party on a whole.
 

Afrodium

Banned
Apr 21, 2009
4,470
0
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Trump's been saying for months that the Republican repeal/replace effort was a good deed because the best option for Republicans would be to let the market collapse in order to score political points against Democrats.

It's dumb and fucked up for a number of reasons, but if that is your grand strategy you'd probably be better off not publicly announcing how you, as President of the United States, are intentionally going to let the US healthcare market collapse if you want to successfully blame the other party for it happening.
 

Ponn

Banned
Mar 10, 2005
22,854
1
0
Florida
Been saying this is there only real option for months now. Deep down they know it too. People that think the GOP are going to be blamed for ACA collapsing with no insurers on the marketplace haven't been paying attention to all the shit GOP has already gotten away with. This is their safest bet to hold onto seats in 2018. People are still going to be screwed and the Republicans are going to weasel out of responsibility in their base and moderate eyes.
 

Tommy DJ

Member
Dec 27, 2011
2,005
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That's basically the whole problem with this.

When someone like Reagan tried to bust public services, he discretely cuts funding for the service and lets it perform badly without drawing attention to it. Then he tells the public that said public service is dreadful and should be cut in favour of private service replacements.

When someone like Trump is trying to bust Obamacare, he's telling people that Obamacare is terrible (because Obama?????) and he's going to make sure its goddamn dead.

Been saying this is there only real option for months now. Deep down they know it too. People that think the GOP are going to be blamed for ACA collapsing with no insurers on the marketplace haven't been paying attention to all the shit GOP has already gotten away with. This is their safest bet to hold onto seats in 2018. People are still going to be screwed and the Republicans are going to weasel out of responsibility in their base and moderate eyes.

Yeah, I know Republicans and moderates can be stupid but...

The house and senate bills had like sub-20% approval rating (that's at least 15% worse than Trump's worst approval rating poll) with the public. Because everyone knew it was a "fuck healthcare, rich people need tax cuts" bill.

And during and after all of this, you have a president telling everyone "fuck Obamacare, I hate Obama so much that I'm going to make sure it dies even if it puts 20+ million people out of health care".

The optics with regards to Republican health care legislation are absolutely dreadful.
 
Sep 16, 2006
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Early on there in the healthcare... thing.... this year there were polls showing people clearly blaming the Republicans if they let the markets collapse on their own.

They own this. They promised they would make healthcare 'better' and all they could show for it was a bill roundly despised by the people. There is no upside.
 

akira28

Member
Aug 31, 2010
43,209
0
715
If the market collapses.........won't people blame the GOP for having all the power to avoid that and still letting it happen?

they can count on a good 30% believing it's somehow Obama's fault.

But a very angry 60% trying to make sure the GOP can't sleep at night.

Been saying this is there only real option for months now. Deep down they know it too. People that think the GOP are going to be blamed for ACA collapsing with no insurers on the marketplace haven't been paying attention to all the shit GOP has already gotten away with. This is their safest bet to hold onto seats in 2018. People are still going to be screwed and the Republicans are going to weasel out of responsibility in their base and moderate eyes.

in the words of Hampton J. Pig's father "Oh no, Mr. Naughty. You don't get off that easily." This all happened in real time, in front of the entire world. There is no way the GOP ducks this.
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Jul 21, 2015
10,086
12
0
Welp. My dad just said it's the Dem's fault.



My dad lost it and went down the rabbit hole years ago.
 

Aaron Strife

Banned
Oct 10, 2006
26,804
3
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That's basically the whole problem with this.

When someone like Reagan tried to bust public services, he discretely cuts funding for the service and lets it perform badly without drawing attention to it. Then he tells the public that said public service is dreadful and should be cut in favour of private service replacements.

When someone like Trump is trying to bust Obamacare, he's telling people that Obamacare is terrible (because Obama?????) and he's going to make sure its goddamn dead.
Also the thing is that Obamacare isn't really a program so much as a series of regulations on the insurance market we already had, and an expansion of a program we already had (Medicaid). Even with ACA in place the American healthcare system is still largely private.

No one in the GOP will ever admit it, but there's no way you can shift our healthcare system to the right while covering more people and bringing down premiums. Every possible reform to Obamacare that would do this would shift it to the left.
 
Sep 15, 2016
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Fine let the band aid on the bullet wound of American healthcare collapse so we can be a first world country again and have medicare for all.
 

Aaron Strife

Banned
Oct 10, 2006
26,804
3
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Welp. My dad just said it's the Dem's fault.



My dad lost it and went down the rabbit hole years ago.
There will absolutely be people who buy into Trump's line on this.

But go back to 2010 and 2014. Democrats knew the GOP was gumming up the works but that didn't matter to swing voters or Republicans.

Fine let the band aid on the bullet wound of American healthcare collapse so we can be a first world country again and have medicare for all.
Future Democratic reform of ACA is going to keep it in place just fyi, I hope you're prepared for this.

Even Bernie Sanders is calling for a public option and Medicare expansion, not a wholesale, overnight shift to single-payer. That may be the ultimate goal, but there are steps along the way, just like the ACA was a step.
 

Sulik2

Member
Apr 17, 2012
7,834
1
600
Link here


So at no point was a bipartisan effort on the table. For him it's a somewhat distant possibility if they can't figure out how to fuck people over in a way that they're able to get votes for. What's wrong with these people?!

They are evil, vile human being who value giving themselves, their businesses and their friends tax breaks more then human life. They are every bit the inhumane monsters that an org like ISIS is, they just wear suits and smile more. The GOP is the single dangerous organization on the planet.
 

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
Jul 12, 2007
8,338
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0
These are the two most recent tweets from Trump:

With only a very small majority, the Republicans in the House & Senate need more victories next year since Dems totally obstruct, no votes!

The Senate must go to a 51 vote majority instead of current 60 votes. Even parts of full Repeal need 60. 8 Dems control Senate. Crazy!

Damn dude. They literally think it's a game.
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
0
845
Consider this everyone. If we don't cut spending on healthcare now, many more will die in the future. Humans are like deer. We need to kill some now to save more later.

I'm too lazy to link my sources, so I'll link instead to a post that DOES source this.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=242030694&postcount=399

If you're truly empathetic, you'll let the poor of today die so that the poor and middle class of tomorrow do not.
 

epmode

Member
Jun 7, 2004
28,470
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0
Because obstruction? My dad says that Dems not working with the GOP on the AHCA proves that they don't want to help the country

They hid the fucking bill until the last second! They kept hearings and amendments to the absolute minimum and even talked about calling for a vote before the CBO could provide a score!

Fake news, I know.

America's in serious trouble. Even if Trump isn't around, the way conservatives routinely ignore basic facts is an existential threat..
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
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They hid the fucking bill until the last second! They Kept hearings and amendments to the absolute minimum and even talked about calling for a vote before the CBO could provide a score!

Fake news, I know.

Have they done any hearings?

Certainly Turtle invited no Democrats to the working group. Plenty of Republicans were in the dark.

Not that Democrats would have helped them pass that evil bill either way.

Because obstruction? My dad says that Dems not working with the GOP on the AHCA proves that they don't want to help the country

Ask him how many Republicans voted for Obamacare (0 btw)
 

sturgboski

Member
Nov 18, 2013
3,884
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0
New York, NY
They hid the fucking bill until the last second! They kept hearings and amendments to the absolute minimum and even talked about calling for a vote before the CBO could provide a score!

Fake news, I know.

America's in serious trouble. Even if Trump isn't around, the way conservatives routinely ignore basic facts is an existential threat..

I could swear people listed as actively working on the bill straight up said "I have no fucking clue what is in it, I'm not even allowed in the room." I mean the GOP almost gloated about not working with the Dems.

Anyone who blames this on the Dems...I mean words can not express the emotion I have. How can you be so fucking dumb?
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
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0
I could swear people listed as actively working on the bill straight up said "I have no fucking clue what is in it, I'm not even allowed in the room." I mean the GOP almost gloated about not working with the Dems.

Anyone who blames this on the Dems...I mean words can not express the emotion I have. How can you be so fucking dumb?

I've cut out friends for brain brainwashed right wingers. I just can't deal with them.
 

bachikarn

Member
Jun 7, 2004
8,033
1
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A lot of Republicans will blame Democrats but I highly doubt a significant amount of the total voters will
 
Aug 17, 2006
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Actually... it's a shrewd gamble, but how possible is it for Republican media to blame a collapse on liberals anyway? Are they powerful enough to make that narrative a reality?
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
0
0
Actually... it's a shrewd gamble, but how possible is it for Republican media to blame a collapse on liberals anyway? Are they powerful enough to make that narrative a reality?

Those people probably are already the ones who think it would be Democrats fault.
 

Gallbaro

Banned
May 13, 2008
9,232
2
0
"I'm going to let Obamacare fail"

"I'm not going to own this when Obamacare fails"

These are not the workable positions that he's trying to work. You don't admit you're going to let it fail if you want the Dems to own it.
Yes it is. Very workable. Messaging the complexities of the president controlling high risk subsidies vs. it failed on its own is very very difficult.
 

JettDash

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2017
2,227
0
0
He's literally threatening to fuck over millions of Americans because he didn't "win". MAGA?

Hey I wasn't able to fuck over tens of millions, so I'm going to fuck over these millions until you agree to help me fuck over the tens of millions.

Great plan.
 

Euphoria14

Member
Apr 21, 2010
1,839
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750
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I walked by this house today and saw what looked to be a small beginnings of a fire. If left unattended the entire house would go up in flame.

I decided to do nothing and just let it burn.

It's not my fault nobody called the fire department.
 

Wet Bloodfart

Banned
May 13, 2016
693
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Nashville, TN

TankRizzo

Banned
Dec 9, 2016
937
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So how does Obamacare "collapse"? I don't understand what this motherfucker means by that. By doing nothing?
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
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845

Here, I'll isolate the relevant bits.

1) We're $18 trillion in debt.

The reason we're talking about a drastic cut is because medical costs are skyrocketing as are the populations of people who need those programs (Obama's plan would have nearly doubled Medicaid spending) so even that massive growth means millions will be pushed out of coverage.

But either way, the trend is that government spending for these social welfare programs has exploded - it's the blue part of the first graph here:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/2...-understand-the-extent-of-republican-failure/

It's not defense that's eating up the budget - it's this. "Entitlement" spending is what we call spending for programs for the elderly, disabled, unemployed, impoverished etc. and entitlements have been growing as a share of the federal budget at a terrifying rate. The Republicans say that we're choosing between cruelty or more cruelty - that the current system of spending will eventually collapse the system like in Greece.

Costs HAVE to come down at some point - you can't just keep printing money. When are we going to make those choices?

They're saying we either make those cuts now, or else the system will collapse and then millions truly will die.

This argument is sourced.

We need to start killing poor people ASAP (or at least push legislation that makes them more likely to die), otherwise more will die in the future. Like deer, or some other nonhuman animal.

It sounds pretty unempathetic, but we need to face reality. Trump and the Republicans are misunderstood. They are trying to save humanity. Like hunters when they cull deer populations so that they don't overbreed and starve the whole species out.
 

Garrett 2U

Member
Jan 11, 2012
6,514
1
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Chicago, IL
Here, I'll isolate the relevant bits.



This argument is sourced.

We need to start killing poor people ASAP (or at least push legislation that makes them more likely to die), otherwise more will die in the future. Like deer, or some other nonhuman animal.

It sounds pretty unempathetic, but we need to face reality.

Regardless of the validity or morality of this quoted argument, how does flat out repealing the ACA address the issue you are quoting?
Or are you bringing this up to simply make an edgy comment?
 

TetraGenesis

Member
Jun 22, 2013
6,971
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0
If the market collapses.........won't people blame the GOP for having all the power to avoid that and still letting it happen?

See, that's their super power. They know their supporters are too stupid, indoctrinated, and ill-informed to blame them for anything.
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
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845
Regardless of the validity or morality of this quoted argument, does flat out repealing the ACA address the issue you are quoting?
Or are you bringing this up to simply make an edgy comment?

Estimated 20k will die each year from the repeal of the ACA. So yes.
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
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845
If the market collapses.........won't people blame the GOP for having all the power to avoid that and still letting it happen?

So as far as I understand, the NHS is kick-ass despite budget cuts from the Tories.

The Tories continue to slash the budget so the NHS gets worse so they can go "look, the NHS sucks, time to privatize!"

This seems to have been working pretty well for the Tories.

It can work in America too. Governments make cuts to perfectly fine services. The services get shitty. People say government is incompetent and then funnel money to the private sector.

These 20k deaths/year, are they related to the people using the Entitlements referred to in the quoted argument?
Because I believe those Entitlements are separate from the ACA and will continue to exist.

Oh, that is my misunderstanding then.
 

The Kree

Banned
Sep 21, 2015
8,775
0
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So your plan, when in power, is the same as when you're not in power, which is to do nothing.

Brilliant.
 

Feep

Banned
Sep 14, 2006
14,847
15
1,535
Los Angeles, CA
www.playiridium.com
Here, I'll isolate the relevant bits.



This argument is sourced.

We need to start killing poor people ASAP (or at least push legislation that makes them more likely to die), otherwise more will die in the future. Like deer, or some other nonhuman animal.

It sounds pretty unempathetic, but we need to face reality. Trump and the Republicans are misunderstood. They are trying to save humanity. Like hunters when they cull deer populations so that they don't overbreed and starve the whole species out.
I don't know if you're trying for edgy Thomas Paine shit here, but it's not welcome. I really don't appreciate seeing this kind of thing on NeoGAF.
 
Aug 22, 2013
3,313
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0
Here, I'll isolate the relevant bits.



This argument is sourced.

We need to start killing poor people ASAP (or at least push legislation that makes them more likely to die), otherwise more will die in the future. Like deer, or some other nonhuman animal.

It sounds pretty unempathetic, but we need to face reality. Trump and the Republicans are misunderstood. They are trying to save humanity. Like hunters when they cull deer populations so that they don't overbreed and starve the whole species out.

Go fuck yourself.
 

Garrett 2U

Member
Jan 11, 2012
6,514
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675
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Chicago, IL
Oh, that is my misunderstanding then.

I edited my post after you quoted it.

I don't know if they are separate or not, I'm asking if the ACA included in the referenced Entitlements.
Because there are many other health care Entitlements outside of the ACA.

But before you post an argument of such controversy, you should fully understand the point you're supporting.
And you clearly don't, therefore I question your motives.