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Warhammer |OT| 40k, AoS, specialist games, other miniature games - Need more DAKKA!

mcz117chief

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Any of you boyz have VR? I just bought the newly released Battle Sister and it is pretty good. On PC that would be like 2/10 kind of game but on VR it is in my top three right now.
 

Lanrutcon

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Naw. Next WH game I wanna try is Deathwing. Maybe even DoW III if I can get it for a penny.

Edit: Just realised, if the Dark Angels Codex hits in Jan Youtube will be flooded with painting tutorials, just like folks are doing for the Blood Angels atm. I am deadly keen. I think I got the green down, but Deathwing and Ravenwing are still tricky as fuck.
 
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Stilton Disco

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Made myself a company command squad, that I'm rather pleased with.




I'm going to make a razorback to go with them next, which I got a nice third party Palatine Aquila front armour plate for to keep the theme going.
 

Stilton Disco

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SUPER jealous of that Ancient. That banner is glorious.
It's from one of the Custodes kits, and yeah, pretty rad looking.

There's another similar but different one I'm thinking of using for a Terminator/Chapter ancient.

Infact the entire custodes line has some really neat stuff in it I'm thinking of picking up bits from for various things.

Their Terminator for instance are basically just better Caterphracti models.



 
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Lanrutcon

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Order arrived.

So much Dark Angels stuff. After I get this mass of infantry done, I am moving on from my Greenwing army and starting on the specialised stuff.

Also, got a fucking Whirlwind. It costs more than a Predator. It's crazy. When they start selling Stalkers again I gotta get one of those, and it's probably going to cost the same!

Edit: Ok, the Ravenwing upgrade kit and Dark Angel veteran boxes are insane. So much cool shit to play around with and cheaper than regular kits. I'm going to wait until January's codex is out before I get going, but I am definitely getting more of these. I have this crazy dream of a Ravenwing Redeemer Land Raider filled with crazy battle monks in robes.
 
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Lanrutcon

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So, as this beast of a year winds down to a close, how'd everyone make out this year in terms of the dakka? I plan to put all the crap I built and painted this year in one photo soon, to show my progress from July when I started. I think I did ok, and I'm looking forward to next year's additions.
 

Stilton Disco

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It's not helped by the fact the GW house style of painting is atrocious for female mini's, but compared to some of the more recent similar Age of Sigmar models, this is kind of embarrassing.

I'd even say the older Lelith model is better looking than this.

Also now I look at her feet, I can't wrap my head around how the physics of this 'action' pose are meant to work, unless she was standing still on top of the rubble and is kind of pushing herself forward as she falls down.

I really do get the impression that there's just no excitement for the 40K stuff anymore from the design teams, that it's seen as just a way of milking the Primaris cash cows while all the passion and creativity goes into AoS.

Which reminds me, they cancelled all the Ynnari books and plans recently, because they were shocked that half arsedly putting out a handful of models, having their big new characters play merely supporting roles in the return of Guilliman and failing to do jack shit against Slaanesh didn't stir enough excitement to generate decent sales.

What they should have done was release properly refreshed Craftworld models, had Ynnead actually be properly born, had Commargh fall and the Dark Eldar get forced to join the Craftworlders and Ynnari, then released new Emperor’s Children CSM's and a Daemon Fulgrim model, and had instead of the Psychic Awakening damp squib, a second 'War in Heaven' between the forces of Slaanesh and Ynnead.

If they want something in 40K to sell that's not just Primaris, they need to actually make then exciting and shake up the setting, basically.
 
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Vaelka

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It's not helped by the fact the GW house style of painting is atrocious for female mini's, but compared to some of the more recent similar Age of Sigmar models, this is kind of embarrassing.

I'd even say the older Lelith model is better looking than this.

Also now I look at her feet, I can't wrap my head around how the physics of this 'action' pose are meant to work, unless she was standing still on top of the rubble and is kind of pushing herself forward as she falls down.

I really do get the impression that there's just no excitement for the 40K stuff anymore from the design teams, that it's seen as just a way of milking the Primaris cash cows while all the passion and creativity goes into AoS.

Which reminds me, they cancelled all the Ynnari books and plans recently, because they were shocked that half arsedly putting out a handful of models, having their big new characters play merely supporting roles in the return of Guilliman and failing to do jack shit against Slaanesh didn't stir enough excitement to generate decent sales.

What they should have done was release properly refreshed Craftworld models, had Ynnead actually be properly born, had Commargh fall and the Dark Eldar get forced to join the Craftworlders and Ynnari, then released new Emperor’s Children CSM's and a Daemon Fulgrim model, and had instead of the Psychic Awakening damp squib, a second 'War in Heaven' between the forces of Slaanesh and Ynnead.

If they want something in 40K to sell that's not just Primaris, they need to actually make then exciting and shake up the setting, basically.

Her old model was pretty much perfect imo minus her facial expression which was dull, this one doesn't look '' special '' if that makes sense she could just be a normal Wych and I wouldn't have questioned it except for the long hair.
It really just feels like they wanted to put pants on her because her old model was '' problematic '' according to some people and then made her body massive.
I don't even mind her being more muscular tho, but if anything her old design would just show off her physique more then what's the point of deliberately adding muscles if you're not going to show it but hide it more?
It just makes her look way less unique too, these characters are meant to stand out more.

She almost looks as big as a Space Marine lol.
I just don't get it, they added new Slaanesh models and they just wear loincloths instead of pants was she really that '' problematic ''?...
I always liked how she was basically supposed to invite her attacker then take advantage of it, but this just contradicts that and is no different than a normal Wych.

I mean I was disappointed by Morathi's new model too in the sense that I prefer the Dark Sorceress thing and her old design ( the model was kinda trash tho ), but at least I can acknowledge that the design overall is incredible.
But in this case it was just made objectively less unique and I also think it's worse.
It's like they didn't even try, like they just went '' put pants on her and make her bigger ''.

But yeah, as a Drukhari player who loves the Wyches this was such a buzzkill for me and I lost so much enthusiasm and it makes me worry about the future too...
But ofc it'll get cheered on by the circlejerk...
 
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mcz117chief

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I really do get the impression that there's just no excitement for the 40K stuff anymore from the design teams, that it's seen as just a way of milking the Primaris cash cows while all the passion and creativity goes into AoS.
Shieeeet, me and the boys pretty much said the exact same thing today. We need a refresh of 40k, start over like Fantasy. The funny thing is that Fantasy was fine lore and model wise when it got rebooted but 40k is stagnating terribly, the only thing keeping it afloat for me are 3rd party models and the fun gameplay.
 
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Ornlu

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Shieeeet, me and the boys pretty much said the exact same thing today. We need a refresh of 40k, start over like Fantasy. The funny thing is that Fantasy was fine lore and model wise when it got rebooted but 40k is stagnating terribly, the only thing keeping it afloat for me are 3rd party models and the fun gameplay.

Both settings are pretty much dead to me as far as background/lore; WHFantasy had a great lore, then they killed it in a really boneheaded way and replaced it with a super-generic dead feeling setting. 40K seems to have shot into a million different directions with the Horus Heresy, Primarchs, standard 40K, etc etc. It's hard to even keep track of what comes out when and what it has to do with the setting.

Hopefully the company gets it's shit together at some point in the future; the settings are amazing, and have great potential. I think their game licensing over the last few years has really created some amazing games.
 

mcz117chief

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Both settings are pretty much dead to me as far as background/lore; WHFantasy had a great lore, then they killed it in a really boneheaded way and replaced it with a super-generic dead feeling setting. 40K seems to have shot into a million different directions with the Horus Heresy, Primarchs, standard 40K, etc etc. It's hard to even keep track of what comes out when and what it has to do with the setting.

Hopefully the company gets it's shit together at some point in the future; the settings are amazing, and have great potential. I think their game licensing over the last few years has really created some amazing games.
Yeah, couldn't agree more, Age of Sigmar is a stillborn. Models are nice but the lore is just not there at all. Fantasy is getting a nice revival thanks to Vermintide and other great video games that really fleshed out the world in a meaningful way.
 
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Ornlu

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Yeah, couldn't agree more, Age of Sigmar is a stillborn. Models are nice but the lore is just not there at all. Fantasy is getting a nice revival thanks to Vermintide and other great video games that really fleshed out the world in a meaningful way.

I really don't understand Games Workshop deciding at the same time (2015) to both kill off their entire Fantasy setting, while simultaneously having their most wildly popular games come out in the Fantasy setting.

Wouldn't an even moderately competent executive board be able to say "Hmm, maybe we should keep Fantasy books and models chugging? I mean we have Warhammer: Total War (2016) and Vermintide (2015) coming out soon and that shit looks amazing!"

:messenger_confounded:
 
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mcz117chief

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I really don't understand Games Workshop deciding at the same time (2015) to both kill off their entire Fantasy setting, while simultaneously having their most wildly popular games come out in the Fantasy setting.

Wouldn't an even moderately competent executive board be able to say "Hmm, maybe we should keep Fantasy books and models chugging? I mean we have Warhammer: Total War (2016) and Vermintide (2015) coming out soon and that shit looks amazing!"

:messenger_confounded:
If they were available I would 100% buy at least 1 fantasy army, they feel way more fleshed out than most 40k factions.
 
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Vaelka

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Shieeeet, me and the boys pretty much said the exact same thing today. We need a refresh of 40k, start over like Fantasy. The funny thing is that Fantasy was fine lore and model wise when it got rebooted but 40k is stagnating terribly, the only thing keeping it afloat for me are 3rd party models and the fun gameplay.

A lot of the new content they've been putting out has been more '' PG-13 '' too, Lelith is just another example of that but just in general they've been doing this especially with their animated content and books.
I mean the book for children was memed about before and I don't think that's necessarily a problem so long as it doesn't affect the main setting but at the same time it does beg the question a little.
Most of us who got into Warhammer as kids I imagine got into it because it was '' more adult '' and not for children.

I really do like the Age of Sigmar models overall, but I do think that the cleaner look does feel a bit like that too sometimes. Like they're moving away from grit to try and give it more mainstream appeal.
DnD and WoTC IP's just in general really have been doing the same and I feel like the overall tone and visuals of the setting has become a bit stale and soulless.
It's so '' safe ''.
Even if the actual technical quality of the art for example is better, the overall tone and design is just less interesting more often than not.
Part of it is because it's more streamlined, but also because they're trying to be safe marketing wise and not upset certain people.
Like when I play DnD for example, it's like every single character ever looks the exact same and has a very limited amount of tropes as personalities.
Same when I look at peoples OC art, it's like I am looking at the same copy pasted design over and over again because they're too busy trying to '' make sense '' and '' be realistic '' and play it safe than to actually come up with something interesting.

Again the new Morathi model is great overall, it's an amazing model.
But wouldn't it be more interesting and unique if they went more all in on the monster aspect?
Like make her just topless and give her a more freaky and monsterous design.
Even as someone who was disappointed to see them basically move away entirely from her lewd and seductive aspect ( which is a freaking main corner stone of the Sorceresses particularly Morathi???????? ) I still would've thought that it'd been more interesting and fun.
Narrative wise she's supposed to basically be losing out on that because of what she turned into, but the problem is that they weren't brave enough to go all the way.

It's kinda the same with Lelith too, her redesign just makes no sense contextually with her character and lore and makes her stand out less with the other Wyches.
Part of the lore is that she's deliberately leaving herself open to bait attacks, and instead of delving further into that in the redesign they instead decided to move away from it ( and also make her look more like a bulky brawler instead of an agile fighter ).
 

mcz117chief

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Part of it is because it's more streamlined, but also because they're trying to be safe marketing wise and not upset certain people.
Like when I play DnD for example, it's like every single character ever looks the exact same and has a very limited amount of tropes as personalities.
Same when I look at peoples OC art, it's like I am looking at the same copy pasted design over and over again because they're too busy trying to '' make sense '' and '' be realistic '' and play it safe than to actually come up with something interesting.
I play D&D a lot and if it feels samey then that is the fault of the GM and not the game, the game is just rules how to play but the world should be the DM's unless you are playing strictly within the confines of the Sword Coast. And if people make their own characters look boring then that is also their fault, they can draw whatever they want, we got a pretty varied group running right now.
 

Vaelka

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I play D&D a lot and if it feels samey then that is the fault of the GM and not the game, the game is just rules how to play but the world should be the DM's unless you are playing strictly within the confines of the Sword Coast. And if people make their own characters look boring then that is also their fault, they can draw whatever they want, we got a pretty varied group running right now.
A lot of DM's definitely lack imagination, but I moreso meant their official content.
Don't get me wrong I love DnD, but I do feel like the official content is too safe and generic.
MTG has been going down that route too and I think standardization is one of the big reasons too, I mean I think that most people would have a hard time telling the artists apart in the new generation of MTG art. Before you used to get more varied artstyles and designs but nowadays it's so standardized that it looks as if it's made by the same artist.

You're ofc right that ppl can design the characters they want, I find that most stick to a very standard look tho if I see a Monk, a Fighter and a Wizard for example they'll basically look almost identical most of the time with slightly different faces.
And I think it's because most try and fit their characters into the '' canon world '', and the '' official canon '' is kinda generic and dull imo.

In my group we don't do that either, but I feel like a problem is that people do see the official stuff as '' correct '' so when you go online and talk about it or when ppl post art of their characters you get people being incredibly anal about it.
And also content outside of just playing with a DM like video games and art etc has to fit into that too.

Drow is one of my favorite races and I've been seeing a shift with them too for example, how their cultural theme has been moved away from.
Instead of being the '' evil BDSM-esque elves '' they're sorta just becoming '' elves in generic black leather '' because it's a lot safer and more '' marketable '' if you get what I mean.
And that in turn shifts peoples perception and what they end up creating and expecting too.
 

mcz117chief

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A lot of DM's definitely lack imagination, but I moreso meant their official content.
Don't get me wrong I love DnD, but I do feel like the official content is too safe and generic.
MTG has been going down that route too and I think standardization is one of the big reasons too, I mean I think that most people would have a hard time telling the artists apart in the new generation of MTG art. Before you used to get more varied artstyles and designs but nowadays it's so standardized that it looks as if it's made by the same artist.

You're ofc right that ppl can design the characters they want, I find that most stick to a very standard look tho if I see a Monk, a Fighter and a Wizard for example they'll basically look almost identical most of the time with slightly different faces.
And I think it's because most try and fit their characters into the '' canon world '', and the '' official canon '' is kinda generic and dull imo.

In my group we don't do that either, but I feel like a problem is that people do see the official stuff as '' correct '' so when you go online and talk about it or when ppl post art of their characters you get people being incredibly anal about it.
And also content outside of just playing with a DM like video games and art etc has to fit into that too.

Drow is one of my favorite races and I've been seeing a shift with them too for example, how their cultural theme has been moved away from.
Instead of being the '' evil BDSM-esque elves '' they're sorta just becoming '' elves in generic black leather '' because it's a lot safer and more '' marketable '' if you get what I mean.
And that in turn shifts peoples perception and what they end up creating and expecting too.
I get you, bro, about the official content anyway. My brother has AD&D 2nd edition books and when I looked through them it didn't look that different, I think Sword Coast is supposed to be the generic fantasy where everyone feels comfortable, the standardized fantasy setting for everyone, but you got plenty of supplements that shift it in all kinds of direction. You got the ultra sadistic and evil world of Dark Sun, the Arabic lands of fairy tails and mysticism of Al Quadim, frozen lands of terror and horror stories in Icewind Dale, the crazy and messy worlds of Planescape and many many more. But then of course you can also make your own world, the one we play is a mix of classic fantasy, Warhammer, Berserk, Warcraft and Gothic series while also taking inspiration from dozens of others in some capacity (characters, events, weapons, etc.).
When it comes to Drow though I actually like that they aren't one-dimensional "just evil elves" because that is just as annoying an any one-dimensional race or character. Have the Drow be something like Romulans from Star Trek, most of them are scheming bitches, but there are a few who want to be better and help the world be a better place.
 
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Vaelka

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I get you, bro, about the official content anyway. My brother has AD&D 2nd edition books and when I looked through them it didn't look that different, I think Sword Coast is supposed to be the generic fantasy where everyone feels comfortable, the standardized fantasy setting for everyone, but you got plenty of supplements that shift it in all kinds of direction. You got the ultra sadistic and evil world of Dark Sun, the Arabic lands of fairy tails and mysticism of Al Quadim, frozen lands of terror and horror stories in Icewind Dale, the crazy and messy worlds of Planescape and many many more. But then of course you can also make your own world, the one we play is a mix of classic fantasy, Warhammer, Berserk, Warcraft and Gothic series while also taking inspiration from dozens of others in some capacity (characters, events, weapons, etc.).
When it comes to Drow though I actually like that they aren't one-dimensional "just evil elves" because that is just as annoying an any one-dimensional race or character. Have the Drow be something like Romulans from Star Trek, most of them are scheming bitches, but there are a few who want to be better and help the world be a better place.
I don't mind Drow that are the exception either, but I also think that it's kinda boring when a Drow being '' good '' basically just means Drow imitating Humans essentially and when they get so much attention.
And I also think that the Drow that are '' very Drow '' should be presented as such but usually they like I said just put them in black leather which you could just make brown and put on a Human and call it a day lol.

I think tho that if you want to pursue a mainstream audience you kinda gotta dumb things down like that, races need to behave and dress based on '' our '' sensabilities.
Even slightly grey characters get called '' edgy for the sake of edgy '' but then ppl go back to playing their character who makes every surface level '' good '' decision ever xD...
It's why if you post art of a Drow character that is very Drow in attire the whole comment section becomes complaints about modesty.
Maybe there's something to the notion that people can't tell the difference between reality and fiction huh lol.

But yeah I have a lot of bad experience interacting with ppl in the DnD community so I might be biased one way too.
In regards to the Lelith model it did seem to have raised some eyebrows and criticism at least, new Warhammer models for me are for sure a mixed bag all-around but I do feel like the new redesigns tend to be headscratchers.
With new models they have more leeway.

I don't think whatever follows 5E is going to be anything but extremely generic and streamlined. And safe. So very safe.

I do think that it's going to get worse.
There's a lot of complaints about other races being portrayed as not generically good and WoTC are actually listening to the complaints too...
I don't think that anyone really has issues with a non-conventional Orc for example in their party, but the problem becomes when the complaints become about the whole culture in the setting not being '' Human enough ''.

It reminds me a bit of the Sisters of Battle too and their breastplates and the complaints about them, it's like people don't even care about the actual setting itself they only care about what it represents *to them* irl.
I mean it's fine to not like it on a visual level, at the same time one can just play something else instead of trying to get it changed.
But it's another thing to moralize about it etc and just totally ignore the settting and narrative behind it.

Same with the Witch Aelves, like is some randos personal opinion on modesty irl even relevant at all?
I dunno why some people think that fictional settings need to adhere to their personal sensabilities but the truth is that those people are listened to.
They've probably had less of an impact on Warhammer than they 've had on DnD and MTG I'd say, but they've still had an impact and it makes the setting feel a bit soulless.
It's like it sorta breaks the fourth wall when you start injecting real life sensabilities into it that doesn't even make sense contextually.
 
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Stilton Disco

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Space Marine should be canon.

Chaosbane looks kinda cool but not sure about it.
The game or the old pre Black Library story?

Because officially everything is to be considered canon and from an unreliable narrator when it comes to 40K.

Hence why, as far as I'm concerned, the Sensei (powerfully psychic descendants of the Emperor's shagging normal humans) still exist, and Daemon Fulgrim is just the Laer Blade daemon lying about Fulgrim's soul escaping the painting, in order to maintain it's position.
 
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Darkmakaimura

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The game or the old pre Black Library story?

Because officially everything is to be considered canon and from an unreliable narrator when it comes to 40K.

Hence why, as far as I'm concerned, the Sensei (powerfully psychic descendants of the Emperor's shagging normal humans) still exist, and Daemon Fulgrim is just the Laer Blade daemon lying about Fulgrim's soul escaping the painting, in order to maintain it's position.
The video game Space Marine. So good.

Kinda want Chaosbane off GOG. I know almost nothing about Warhamner Fantasy.
 

Stilton Disco

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The video game Space Marine. So good.

Kinda want Chaosbane off GOG. I know almost nothing about Warhamner Fantasy.
In that case, there's been a few references since it released that imply it was canon, and Titus ended up in the Deathwatch after the events of the game, with Cato Sicarius then becoming 2nd Company Captain.
 
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Stilton Disco

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I just found out I can equip my entire Veteran Squad with stormshields and combi weapons.

Fucking buying a vanguard kit for some shields asap.
If they're Dark Angels, you can also give them Combat Shields instead, which is cheaper and only means a 1 worse invul save.

Useful to keep in mind, if you're building a list and find yourself over by a couple of points.
 
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Cyberpunkd

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I've always been a Warhammer 40k fan, it's such a shame this IP is so mishandled by Games Workshop and was not able to truly enjoy the success it deserves. Then again it's quite grim and hardcore, which will limit the appeal.

Last time I painted the models was 20 years ago, after that I've been mostly fan of books and video games. Just finished 'Master of Mankind' and getting started on the Solar War saga. What are the plans after? As I understand all the Horus Heresy books lead to the saga, and it culminated the story arch. Have GW hinted at rebooting the line like they did with AoS? Maybe finally they will let the Emperor die?
 
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Lanrutcon

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I've always been a Warhammer 40k fan, it's such a shame this IP is so mishandled by Games Workshop and was not able to truly enjoy the success it deserves. Then again it's quite grim and hardcore, which will limit the appeal.

Last time I painted the models was 20 years ago, after that I've been mostly fan of books and video games. Just finished 'Master of Mankind' and getting started on the Solar War saga. What are the plans after? As I understand all the Horus Heresy books lead to the saga, and it culminated the story arch. Have GW hinted at rebooting the line like they did with AoS? Maybe finally they will let the Emperor die?

No chance. 9th Edition 40k just launched, marines basically got rebooted in the form of the Primaris marines (a shitload of new marine stuff has been steadily released), Necrons got updated and we've been promised a new codex per month from here on (after some delays due to Covid). 40k is their moneymaker, and last time they released numbers over 50% of their players played marines. As long as they're releasing new marine models, 40k will keep on trucking.
 

Stilton Disco

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No chance. 9th Edition 40k just launched, marines basically got rebooted in the form of the Primaris marines (a shitload of new marine stuff has been steadily released), Necrons got updated and we've been promised a new codex per month from here on (after some delays due to Covid). 40k is their moneymaker, and last time they released numbers over 50% of their players played marines. As long as they're releasing new marine models, 40k will keep on trucking.
The are caught in a viscious cycle though, and are in a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Do over 50% of players play marines because that's the reality of their potential sales? Or is it because over 50% of their new models are marines?

Age of Sigma has a lot more variety in their releases, and a far healthier variety in army sales, both of which have seen a significant growth in new players.

I mean take Eldar as an example. Their main troop unit are ugly 20 year old sculpts, with short range weapons, terrible melee abilities and stats that work only as a horde unit, which runs totally contrary to the lore painting them as hard hitting and limited in number elites, that marines find a nightmare to deal with, due to their weapons cutting through ceramite like butter and being almost impossible to hit, since their most basic dudes are meant to be faster and more agile than even humanities genetically enhanced super soldiers.

Now compare their elites, the more expensive cool figures that really sell a line, like Firedragons to their marine equivelant Erradicators.

Erradicators are simply better in every way. They fulfil the same role, with the same kind of weapons, but the marines are just superior in every way.

There is just no incentive for anyone new to the hobby to want to take anything other than Marines, particularly since the introduction of Primaris means there are super Marines that make the old overly popular Space Marines look crap in comparison.

40K is undeniably the bigger game, but it's longterm health is far more questionable when most matches are just the same army in (not always) different colours fighting itself.

I honeslty think we're already at the tipping point where a crash is inevitable infact. We may have had a couple of bright spots with Necrons and SOB getting major line refreshes, but those releases are nothing compared to the attention marines got in the same timeframe, and also saw the cancellation of the Ynnari, proving the complete lack of commitment to sustaining these attempts to strengthen non marine factions long term.
 

Cyberpunkd

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No chance. 9th Edition 40k just launched, marines basically got rebooted in the form of the Primaris marines (a shitload of new marine stuff has been steadily released), Necrons got updated and we've been promised a new codex per month from here on (after some delays due to Covid). 40k is their moneymaker, and last time they released numbers over 50% of their players played marines. As long as they're releasing new marine models, 40k will keep on trucking.
I was mostly thinking in terms of story and lore - we know the Golden Throne will malfunction one day, it's inevitable. Curious to learn if GW have hinted at wanting to go there in the near future.
 
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Lanrutcon

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The are caught in a viscious cycle though, and are in a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

Do over 50% of players play marines because that's the reality of their potential sales? Or is it because over 50% of their new models are marines?

Age of Sigma has a lot more variety in their releases, and a far healthier variety in army sales, both of which have seen a significant growth in new players.

I mean take Eldar as an example. Their main troop unit are ugly 20 year old sculpts, with short range weapons, terrible melee abilities and stats that work only as a horde unit, which runs totally contrary to the lore painting them as hard hitting and limited in number elites, that marines find a nightmare to deal with, due to their weapons cutting through ceramite like butter and being almost impossible to hit, since their most basic dudes are meant to be faster and more agile than even humanities genetically enhanced super soldiers.

Now compare their elites, the more expensive cool figures that really sell a line, like Firedragons to their marine equivelant Erradicators.

Erradicators are simply better in every way. They fulfil the same role, with the same kind of weapons, but the marines are just superior in every way.

There is just no incentive for anyone new to the hobby to want to take anything other than Marines, particularly since the introduction of Primaris means there are super Marines that make the old overly popular Space Marines look crap in comparison.

40K is undeniably the bigger game, but it's longterm health is far more questionable when most matches are just the same army in (not always) different colours fighting itself.

I honeslty think we're already at the tipping point where a crash is inevitable infact. We may have had a couple of bright spots with Necrons and SOB getting major line refreshes, but those releases are nothing compared to the attention marines got in the same timeframe, and also saw the cancellation of the Ynnari, proving the complete lack of commitment to sustaining these attempts to strengthen non marine factions long term.

Fair points all around. Eradicators are stupid silly, potentially the most imbalanced unit currently by many accounts.

I would love to try the Guard but...waiting for their Codex and/or revamp. Also need to learn how to paint camouflage patterns. Meh.
 
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Ornlu

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Fair points all around. Eradicators are stupid silly, potentially the most imbalanced unit currently by many accounts.

I would love to try the Guard but...waiting for their Codex and/or revamp. Also need to learn how to paint camouflage patterns. Meh.

You are in luck! Camouflage is just cowardly heresy! A true son of the Emperor welcomes enemy fire.
 
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Stilton Disco

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I was mostly thinking in terms of story and lore - we know the Golden Throne will malfunction one day, it's inevitable. Curious to learn if GW have hinted at wanting to go there in the near future.
They’ve been dropping hints for years of a 40K end times.

There’s the golden throne failing.

The final 13th Black Crusade destroyed Cadia, and ripped the galaxy in 2 with the Eye of Terror stretching across the middle of it now, allowing Daemons to freely enter real space.

Primarchs are returning, obviously Guilliman, but also Magnus and Mortarian in real space, with hints of Fulgrim being about too, as well as Corax (who is now a living saint/Imperial Daemon Prince that can turn to literal shadow) hunting Lorgar in the Eye of Terror.

The birth of the Eldar God of Death Ynnead has started, and with it the foretold destruction of Slaanesh.

The Space Wolves 13th Great Company has returned, so we’re in their prophesied Wolf Time, which means the return of Russ should be imminent.

The Dark Angels Fallen are gathering in Imperium Nihilus at Legion strength, and Luthor is free, while the Lion is now fully healed and just asleep, waiting for the Watchers to wake him.

The Blood Angel’s prophecies and visions for the last battle are getting closer to ‘now’, with the Golden Warrior that will be the final champion of humanity, and the last to fall at the steps of the Golden Throne, having been confirmed to be Commander Dante.

The Orks have all started uniting behind Ghazgull, who is steadily growing in power and is well on the way to becoming a Krork.

The Tyranids are everywhere, and it looks like they and the Daemons are the two big bads in basically every factions end of days myths. There’s also hints that something behind the scenes is responsible for the Tyranids, and may be about to reveal itself.

The Necrons are all awake now, and the Silent King has returned. Also Trayzn the Infinite has started releasing his collection of unique weirdoes into the Galaxy, which includes many ‘lost’ heroes, like the loyal Clone Fulgrim, Krorks, Rangdan and Thunder Warriors.

The Emperor sent visions to Saint Celestine, telling her to help Alpha Legion Marines, entrusting them with the protection of the dark side of the galaxies mini astronomicon, as well as growing hints that Omegon is both alive and has been playing a very long game as a double agent.

Also interestingly Guilliman’s return is being treated as an unexpected wild card, and since he’s been back stuff like the Blood Angels visions and the Eldar Farseer’s scrying have changed.

So yeah, we are basically at the edge of the precipice for 40K going out with a bang, but when, or even if GW are going to do it is anyone’s guess.

It’s been 5 years since they started linning up the dominoes, they may well just keep putting more and more up indefinitely and never actually tip the first one over.
 
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Cyberpunkd

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Incredible stuff, thank you Stilton Disco Stilton Disco for such a thoughtful coverage. It's truly a very unique IP and universe, reminds me of Dune in that aspect (that was unfortunately butchered by Herbert's son).
 
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Stilton Disco

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Incredible stuff, thank you Stilton Disco Stilton Disco for such a thoughtful coverage. It's truly a very unique IP and universe, reminds me of Dune in that aspect (that was unfortunately butchered by Herbert's son).
No worries. The lore is my favourite part of 40K, so I’ve read dozens of books since getting back into it a couple of years ago.

If I had to make a prediction, they’re waiting on the end of the Horus Heresy books before they build towards 40K’s End Times, which will be 10th edition, and 11th Edition and will be an ‘Age of Guilliman’ soft reboot.

Mostly because I think they’re going to change the lore around how the HH ends.

There’s a fan theory going around that, because of the way the Emperor has been portrayed, and how totally corrupted Horus is, means the established lore of the big E being unwilling to kill Horus makes no sense.

Instead, people, myself included, think they’re going to have it that Sanguinius is going to fall to the Black Rage, defeat Horus, then attack the Emperor, maddened by blood lust and visions of the 40K end times, attacking the Emperor because he thinks he’s Dante defending the Golden Throne.

Hence why the Emperor gets wrecked before being forced to kill Sanguinius, then destroys the crippled Horus’s soul, to make sure no one knows what actually happened.

I’m probably miles off, but it would tie 40K and the HH stuff together, be a massive twist, add further tragedy to everything and allow them to have crazed Sanguinius drop direct hints about what is going to happen in the final big battle, hyping that up.
 
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Ornlu

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No worries. The lore is my favourite part of 40K, so I’ve read dozens of books since getting back into it a couple of years ago.

If I had to make a prediction, they’re waiting on the end of the Horus Heresy books before they build towards 40K’s End Times, which will be 10th edition, and 11th Edition and will be an ‘Age of Guilliman’ soft reboot.

Mostly because I think they’re going to change the lore around how the HH ends.

I agree with you that they are probably going to shift over toward a 40K "End Times" after the HH. Not sure what they would do after that, though. It would be a shame to copy "Age of Sigmar" and sterilize 40K even more.
 
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mcz117chief

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There’s a fan theory going around that, because of the way the Emperor has been portrayed, and how totally corrupted Horus is, means the established lore of the big E being unwilling to kill Horus makes no sense.

Instead, people, myself included, think they’re going to have it that Sanguinius is going to fall to the Black Rage, defeat Horus, then attack the Emperor, maddened by blood lust and visions of the 40K end times, attacking the Emperor because he thinks he’s Dante defending the Golden Throne.

Hence why the Emperor gets wrecked before being forced to kill Sanguinius, then destroys the crippled Horus’s soul, to make sure no one knows what actually happened.

I’m probably miles off, but it would tie 40K and the HH stuff together, be a massive twist, add further tragedy to everything and allow them to have crazed Sanguinius drop direct hints about what is going to happen in the final big battle, hyping that up.
Rofl, that is insanely funny, I hope that something similar does happen :D

They’ve been dropping hints for years of a 40K end times.

There’s the golden throne failing.

The final 13th Black Crusade destroyed Cadia, and ripped the galaxy in 2 with the Eye of Terror stretching across the middle of it now, allowing Daemons to freely enter real space.

Primarchs are returning, obviously Guilliman, but also Magnus and Mortarian in real space, with hints of Fulgrim being about too, as well as Corax (who is now a living saint/Imperial Daemon Prince that can turn to literal shadow) hunting Lorgar in the Eye of Terror.

The birth of the Eldar God of Death Ynnead has started, and with it the foretold destruction of Slaanesh.

The Space Wolves 13th Great Company has returned, so we’re in their prophesied Wolf Time, which means the return of Russ should be imminent.

The Dark Angels Fallen are gathering in Imperium Nihilus at Legion strength, and Luthor is free, while the Lion is now fully healed and just asleep, waiting for the Watchers to wake him.

The Blood Angel’s prophecies and visions for the last battle are getting closer to ‘now’, with the Golden Warrior that will be the final champion of humanity, and the last to fall at the steps of the Golden Throne, having been confirmed to be Commander Dante.

The Orks have all started uniting behind Ghazgull, who is steadily growing in power and is well on the way to becoming a Krork.

The Tyranids are everywhere, and it looks like they and the Daemons are the two big bads in basically every factions end of days myths. There’s also hints that something behind the scenes is responsible for the Tyranids, and may be about to reveal itself.

The Necrons are all awake now, and the Silent King has returned. Also Trayzn the Infinite has started releasing his collection of unique weirdoes into the Galaxy, which includes many ‘lost’ heroes, like the loyal Clone Fulgrim, Krorks, Rangdan and Thunder Warriors.

The Emperor sent visions to Saint Celestine, telling her to help Alpha Legion Marines, entrusting them with the protection of the dark side of the galaxies mini astronomicon, as well as growing hints that Omegon is both alive and has been playing a very long game as a double agent.

Also interestingly Guilliman’s return is being treated as an unexpected wild card, and since he’s been back stuff like the Blood Angels visions and the Eldar Farseer’s scrying have changed.

So yeah, we are basically at the edge of the precipice for 40K going out with a bang, but when, or even if GW are going to do it is anyone’s guess.

It’s been 5 years since they started linning up the dominoes, they may well just keep putting more and more up indefinitely and never actually tip the first one over.
Now we just need Salamanders to gather up the relics and we can put the band back together.
 
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Lanrutcon

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Army is up to around 55 infantry of various types, around 12 vehicles and a Ravenwing command squad + 4 Black Knights / 10 DA veterans waiting in the wings. Have not started on any of my Primaris stuff yet. Looking at a Land Raider and a serious start on my Ravenwing for my next project. Unless GW get some Deathwing stock. It's high time I get some Deathwing on the field. Chief Apothacary Janus in the photos is sporting Deathwing colors, so I'm happy that I can paint me some Terminators.
 

mcz117chief

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Army is up to around 55 infantry of various types, around 12 vehicles and a Ravenwing command squad + 4 Black Knights / 10 DA veterans waiting in the wings. Have not started on any of my Primaris stuff yet. Looking at a Land Raider and a serious start on my Ravenwing for my next project. Unless GW get some Deathwing stock. It's high time I get some Deathwing on the field. Chief Apothacary Janus in the photos is sporting Deathwing colors, so I'm happy that I can paint me some Terminators.
Beautiful, good job, man. Much respect :)
 
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Stilton Disco

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Army is up to around 55 infantry of various types, around 12 vehicles and a Ravenwing command squad + 4 Black Knights / 10 DA veterans waiting in the wings. Have not started on any of my Primaris stuff yet. Looking at a Land Raider and a serious start on my Ravenwing for my next project. Unless GW get some Deathwing stock. It's high time I get some Deathwing on the field. Chief Apothacary Janus in the photos is sporting Deathwing colors, so I'm happy that I can paint me some Terminators.
Absolutely gorgeous. Seriously great work man, that paint work is just spot on.

Love the customisations you've done too, gives them a really unique look, while also being very distinctly classic Dark Angels.
 
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mcz117chief

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Army is up to around 55 infantry of various types, around 12 vehicles and a Ravenwing command squad + 4 Black Knights / 10 DA veterans waiting in the wings. Have not started on any of my Primaris stuff yet. Looking at a Land Raider and a serious start on my Ravenwing for my next project. Unless GW get some Deathwing stock. It's high time I get some Deathwing on the field. Chief Apothacary Janus in the photos is sporting Deathwing colors, so I'm happy that I can paint me some Terminators.
Ok, now that I am a bit more sober I want to ask about bases, what kind do you have in mind?
 

mcz117chief

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Astrogranite Debris, add a rock or two, Null Oil, dry-brush Dawnstone. Add an individually painted skull or piece of debris. Something like that to represent the fact that they live on a piece of stone floating in space.
Yeah, sound about right.
 

Lanrutcon

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And the new FAQs brought leaks...new Dark Angel character: Deathwing Strikemaster, as well as new rules for Rites of Initiation to allow you to pay points to turn units into Deathwing (Captains, Primaris Lieutenants, Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, Repulsors, Stormraven and any transport that can hold Terminators).
 
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Hoping for a lot more variety when The Old World hits and not just the same Empire and Chaos focused stuff. Thought obviously at start will probably be quite Empire focused.