• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Warning! Official VRR unsolvable problem in oled TVs!

poodaddy

Gold Member
This "news" is three and a half weeks late. It sucks OP, but the majority of complaining about the issue seems to be overblown. I use VRR at 120 hz on my E9 constantly, and I've never even once noticed any gamma issues. I'm not saying they're not there, just that, in normal viewing situations, I'm very unlikely to ever notice them.
 

01011001

Member
My samsung Q80T is doesn't have any issues. I have also looked really hard and switched back and forth to see if it washes out the blacks and it doesn't.

OLED is the magic word here dude ;) your Samsung is a QLED which isn't even related to OLED
 

ABnormal

Member
Too bad. But that's not an important-enough reason to avoid buying a future 2.1 oled. I will happily buy it as soon as possible.
 

Griffon

Member
Thanks for bringing that up OP, I wasn't aware of the issue. I'll be extra careful when I get a new screen soon-ish. I want VRR.
 

angelic

Banned
Can I just ask in here, im currently on a 2011 panasonic plasma, just about to pull the trigger on a CX. Is it bright enough?
 

Nydus

Gold Member
Can I just ask in here, im currently on a 2011 panasonic plasma, just about to pull the trigger on a CX. Is it bright enough?
Yes. They don't get as bright as LED but the contrast makes up for it. I have a B9, which is in some cases 200nits darker than a cx but even this puppy is sometimes so bright that it hurts to look at it.
 

Amaranty

Member
For some reason most reviewers seem to overlook LG OLED problems like 30-24fps stutter along with such issues and amplify other problems from the competing brands. Dirty money?
I think it really depends on a person, whether he notices the stutter and if it actually bothers them. It probably boils down to our eyes and how we perceive motion. Same thing how some people get eye strain while watching 3D movies, while others don't. It's something we can't control.

Vincent from HDTVTest commented about the motion duplication from 120 Hz PWM dimming on Samsung QLEDs and he says that it doesn't bother him. He also favours no motion smoothing, even on OLED panels, so it probably means motion stutter is not an issue for him.
 
I'd always double check about buying any display during a feature year like a HDMI spec boost.

That being said though, if I had the money to burn I wouldn't hesitate on upgrading my C7. Amazing looking technology.
 

Soodanim

Member
Guys can someone explain to me what VRR is
Traditionally displays are set to specifically refresh rates, like 50/60/120hz. But if you display varying amounts of frames, you can get stuttering or tearing (where you get parts of frames, and in motion it’s very noticeable). Variable Refresh Rate technology (including GSync, NVidia’s proprietary version; Freesync, an open standard; and VRR, the HDMI2.1 standard) lets the display listen to the console/GPU and display full frames whenever they’re ready (up to their limit), making for a much smoother experience.
 
Last edited:
Guys can someone explain to me what VRR is

It simply means that the TV doesn't have a fixed refresh rate of usually 60 hz or 120hz. It's variable. The GPU of whatever device you have communicates with the TV and the TV matches the refresh rate to the fps of the current application (or game).
 

OCD Guy

Member
The PS5 doesn’t even have VRR enabled, and playing a game looks great on my oled.

I wouldn’t give up the image quality for working VRR on an lcd tv.

It is a kick in the teeth that there are issues, but I was always sceptical that LG were releasing features on a tv with no hardware to actually test it lol

Bare in mind when the 9th gen oled a were released there were zero hdmi 2.1 gaming devices to use in 2019. It’s only when the graphics cards released that people could start testing....
 
Last edited:

TonyK

Member
I found this amazing video that explains why VRR is currently "broken" in HDMI 2.1 for all TVs, not only oled. In resume: HDR + VRR is problematic right now.


My main doubt now is if it's related only to 120hz. Because I see reports of people saying it occurs at 120hz but no a 60hz.
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Can I just ask in here, im currently on a 2011 panasonic plasma, just about to pull the trigger on a CX. Is it bright enough?
They don't get as bright as Sony or Samsung LEDs, but the contrast will make up creating a stronger perception of brightness. There have been many instances of OLEDs being selected as brighter TVs eventhough they measurable were not.
 
Bumping this thread because I'm considering buying a 55" OLED CX when I get paid at the end of the month. Reading about all these problems with gsync/VRR has given me second thoughts, especially with the release of the C1 seemingly imminent.

From what I can gather the majority of the issues (forced chroma subsampling, flickering etc.) were fixed via a firmware update. However the issue with elevated gamma at 4K/120hz/VRR still remains and will only be fixed in future panels. Is that correct?

I've heard so many different things about this elevated gamma controversy it's difficult to know what to think. Some people say it's a big issue, some say they don't notice it, others say it's a thing but only something that AV nerds would ever notice or care about and others still say it is an issue but that it's easily correctable by changing the brightness settings on your TV.

I guess what I'm afraid of is that I can't test these issues myself until the GPU for the PC I want to connect to this TV (RTX 3080) is available and that won't be for months. By that time, I'll have lost my right of return if I discover that the VRR issues do in fact bother me. On the other hand, if I wait I might discover that the 2021 panels have the same issues and are markedly more expensive than the CX retails for now, meaning I'll have to either pay full MSRP or wait several months for a TV that has all the same problems as the CX (which I could just buy now for a cheaper price).

It's a gamble either way and I really don't know whether I should stick or twist. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated, but I'd particularly interested in hearing from any CX owners with 3000 series cards who have experienced 4K/Gsync/120hz. I note that GaviotaGrande GaviotaGrande has said it all seems to work flawlessly for him which is extremely encouraging, but I'd like to canvass as many opinions as I can about the present situation with these apparent issues before I shell out as it's a lot of money to spend on a TV.
 
Last edited:

Venuspower

Member
Some people say it's a big issue, some say they don't notice it, others say it's a thing but only something that AV nerds would ever notice or care about and others still say it is an issue but that it's easily correctable by changing the brightness settings on your TV.
Panel lottery can make a difference. From what we know so far
the gamma shift issue/flickering is more prominent on some panels than on others.
Which could explain why some people do not notice this issue.

You could also try to play around with the brightness setting. By reducing it one or two steps
you can hide those side effects of the gamma shift. While this might be a decent workaround, you may experience black crush in other scenarios. Which would require you to refine the settings manually every now and then. In SDR you could also try to use Gamma 2.4/BT.1886.

From what I have seen so far, most people are noticing this issue when the frame rate drops to like <40 - 80 FPS.
If you make sure that your frame rate stays somewhere around 90-120 FPS the issue should not be that noticeable (if at all).

Also keep in mind that it is highly unlikely that this issue will be addressed by LG Displays (the panel manufacturer) for ther 2021 series panels. So far it looks like they did not know about this issue until people spammed them. But this probably was too late for their 2021 panels. Which is why I would expect a hardware-level fix in 2022 at the earliest.

As far as I know there has not been an official response from LG Electronics (the company behind LG televisions) yet whether or not they are able to adress this isssue via software. Considering the statement from LG Display it does not look like that this will be the case. But you never know. Maybe they can implement some sort of a workaround that does not fix the issue, but hides it.
 
Last edited:

onesvenus

Member
From what I can gather the majority of the issues (forced chroma subsampling, flickering etc.) were fixed via a firmware update. However the issue with elevated gamma at 4K/120hz/VRR still remains and will only be fixed in future panels. Is that correct?
I can only talk about my experience with a XSX but I haven't seen anything regarding the elevated blacks at all. For me it's really a non-issue but I suppose some people are more sensitive than others...
Having said that, it's the best TV I've ever had. When I asked on this forum what TV to buy they were telling me I should buy a Sony X90H. Having seen my own TV and my friend's X90H I'm sooooo glad I didn't do it.
 

PSX2007

Neo Member
I need to buy a new 55" television. Currently only have a PS4 Slim and Switch, but likely getting a PS5 this year. Don't think I'm of the mindset of, "Get a cheaper one now, then buy another when the technology gets better" (but maybe can be convinced). Looking in the $600-$1000 range. Considering TCL 6-Series (more likely) or or Hisense H8G. Any thoughts/cautions?
 

johntown

Banned
Turn off VRR on the TV unless you have a game that actually supports and can run at 120. I don't know if this actually fixes the issue myself but I would think it would. Can anyone confirm?
 
Fuck TV and console gaming.

 

j0hnnix

Member
Can I just ask in here, im currently on a 2011 panasonic plasma, just about to pull the trigger on a CX. Is it bright enough?
No. 700nits is barely considered great, sure it's fine in a perfectly dark room, and the spiel of "perfect blacks make it pop" is opinion at best. Pretty picture, achieved by others. Go see different TVs, take your living area into consideration, and ignore the "oh it won't burn-in bs" , it will eventually. It's an expensive TV, make sure it meets your requirements, ignore youtubers, reviews and check it out.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
I've played 200 hours of CP2077 on XSX with VRR on with an LG OLED B9 and I can't say I've noticed this issue. YMMV of course, but for most people, this is blown out of proportion. I've yet to set up my 48" CX as PC monitor, will do that tomorrow when the 6900 XT arrives, we'll se how that fares.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom