Was Fallout 4 truly a worse Bethesda game, or did the industry leave Bethesda behind?

[DOWN]

Had Fallout 4 come out just after Skyrim, would we hate it so much? Is it any more flawed than the existing Bethesda hits? Or did games improve and clean house in certain ways that Bethesda wasn't prepared for, and thus our modern tastes just couldn't even pretend to be interested in the stagnant design and tech at Bethesda?

The answer is both. Boy does Fallout 4 suck. Skyrim is aging but damn is that remaster a blast and selling beautifully because the game is so good in terms of high freedom and customization. Skyrim is one of the best received games of all time and it deserved it.

You know what, let me lean toward thinking Fallout 4 just sucks. The world has no iconic landmarks like the other Fallout games (sorry Boston GAF) and that dialogue was horrendous. And yes, the PBR made the game look like 3D printing. I honestly regret playing Fallout 4 despite some occasional redeeming atmosphere in some of the forests. It just doesn't have the cultural charm that the last gen Fallout games had at all, and the world feels so bland.

It seems Bethesda is aware we think the dialogue system was bullshit and that it's huge bullshit one of the most money-making studios in gaming history is clearly not investing it in getting away from Gamebryo, so here's to whatever their next project is that they've confirmed won't be Elder Scrolls or Fallout for a change

EDIT: God famine this thread was sad http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1172426

 

[void666]

No. Bethesda is actually walking backwards.

 

[PepperedHam]

I agree. Skyrim was much more memorable than Fallout 4. It had some design decisions that I thought were backwards for the series coming off of Oblivion but Skyrim has stuck with me and I look back on it fondly. Fallout 4 was just worse as a whole in comparison.

 

[Toki767]

After Fallout 3, I've basically had no desire to play Fallout again.

 

[Shredderi]

Fallout 4 is a weird game. It had a ton of hype behind it and it was my most anticipated game for many years. Then it came out and it actually regressed from their own previous titles when all the others went to next gen trying to go forward. It came off as super unambitious and a personal disappointment of impossible proportions.

 

[CalamityPixel]

Gameplay wise they are going backwards. I can never forgive what they did to their perfectly fine speech system (F3/NV) in Fallout 4.

 

[Like the hat?]

Fallout 3 is my favorite fallout game and in my top five games ever. Fallout 4 was a huge disappointment for me. Too much focus on base building and other bs that I had no use for and took way too much away from the rest of the game IMO.

 

[McBacon]

Bethesda just seems interested in different things than what Fallout traditionally stands for - for whatever reason.

So cinematic stuff and voiced protagonists ahead of strong writing and loads of dialogue options, combat over other solutions, simple RPG-elements instead of actual RPG complexity, Minecraft-inspired crafting over... well you get the idea

So even if Fallout 4 is fun (meh, it didn't click with me) it's just not good Fallout game in my opinion

 

[SuperBanana]

Fallout 4 feels like a game that was unfinished and put on hold for 6 years then they slapped some half arsed dialog and speech system on and released it after the industry had moved on from the old and tired mechanics.

 

[PlayerOne]

Played Skyrim and I never saw the reason behind the overwhelming amount of hype behind it. I am very surprised a lot of people go crazy over it and how it sold the amount it did.

 

[DOWN]

I think they were afraid of being the only AAA dialogue wheel selector thing without any voice lines. Boy did they guess wrong on how to deal with that.

Played Skyrim and I never saw the reason behind the overwhelming amount of hype behind it. I am very surprised a lot of people go crazy over it and how it sold the amount it did.

when did you play it?
It's quite ambitious and unique for when it was released

 

[VeryGooster]

Both, especially for the number of years they put into Fallout 4 (since the last FO3 DLC was my understanding) and it somehow regressed. I bought that season pass before they jacked up the price and I still have yet to touch it or the mods.

I'll at least give them the combat saw an improvement, but base-building, the story, and the dialogue wheel are just too awful to overcome it.

 

[Crawl]

Bethesda game games have run their course. They just aren't impressive anymore. They are like an inch deep lake; a lot of content and very little depth to their systems, AI and game play.

note: when I say bethesda games I dont mean the doom or wolfenstein reboot etc.. Just talking about the open world games.

 

[mysocksarepink]

that engine, or at least what they do with it, is awful :/

 

[James Scott]

I imagine a mix of both.
Few devs could make open worlds like Bethesda last gen and now everyone is.
They also made questionable decisions.
The hype cycle was very well made, tho. A stronger product could've benefited greatly from it

 

[Whompa02]

I couldn't finish it...I was so not compelled by the narrative and structure. Just drop me into the wasteland AGAIN and hope I cared.

You can't soft remake Fallout 3 and expect me to care. I loved FO3, but 4 just felt like a lazy, "by the numbers" sequel.

 

[RAWRferal]

It would have been infinitely more digestible if they had not had a voiced protagonist and had more varied dialog options and skill checks.

When I play a Bethesda game, I expect it to be a sort of 'choose your own adventure', that's the style that drew me in with their previous games, personally I think they're stupid for not even recognising that.

Killed all replayability for me, once I finished the main quest, I never looked back.

 

[Soltype]

Bethesda games have been getting worse since morrowind.People just started noticing with FO4.

 

[Syf]

To me, Bethesda games have been dropping in quality with each release. I enjoyed Morrowind more than Oblivion, Oblivion more than Skyrim, and Fallout 3 more than Fallout 4. They've lost my interest going forward unless they change stuff up significantly. Which probably won't happen because sales numbers.

 

[SpaceWolf]

I liked Fallout 4...

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Yeah.

For Fallout 4 I wanted Mad Max, not Post Apocalypse Community Tycoon.

 

[CecilRousso]

It's Bethesda, not the other way around.

And it's because they wanted to do anything but an RPG, and thought Diablo and Minecraft were more important influence then Fallout 1 or even New Vegas.

 

[Hopeford]

Fallout 4 is phenomenal at what it tries to do(FPS with some RPG elements, minecraft-like building, resource gathering, survival gameplay). It just happens to not even attempt what made me love the previous Fallout games so much. It does not care about choice or roleplaying.

It doesn't make it a worse game, but it does mean that I like it less.

I seriously think it's a fantastic game, it's just not really one that scratches the same itch F3 and NV did. And given we weren't ever strictly told this, it's not a surprise that the disappointment made some people super negative on the game.

I do love the survival gameplay and the settlement building, but those have basically nothing to do with why I liked the older games. So yeah, it's a good game, just one that doesn't follow up on why I liked the older ones.

 

[KORNdoggy]

i definitely found it boring. but then i did skyrim too. yet i loved morrowind and oblivion and fallout 3 and new vegas. i think it's just a lack of evolution within the template and them adding things that are fundamentally quite tedious features for a lot of people...

take base building and management for instance. if you enjoy that stuff, it's a huge additional new "thing" added to an already huge game. but personally i had no interest, and so the big new addition was lost on me, and worse...forced on me. resulting in an even more samey feeling game but a bit more dumbed down. story was terrible too which didn't help.

they need to take it back to the drawing board imo. build something new from the ground up.

 

[EVA UNIT 01]

Even though i have the remaster on PC i still wanna buy it on xb1 just to recreate my first skyrim exposure.

Is the xb1s mod selection very limited?
Im assuming script related stuff is whats off limits?

OT I love fallout 4...if its modded.
F4 vanilla got unbelieveably boring when i played on PS4.
20 hrs in i felt like there was nothing to do or see.

 

[DOWN]

Holy shit I forgot about the base building. Let me scream in my pillow

Bethesda games have been getting worse since morrowind.People just started noticing with FO4.

Nah. Many people (myself included) liked Skyrim's identity and Fallout 3. Fallout 4 is something else and we all don't like it.

 

[TheMan]

How did 4 sell compared to 3?

 

[Swimmer9800]

Bethesda is running a marathon backwards imo. For every great thing about f4 there are like 6 poor descisions. Skyrim is genuinely a better game.

 

[Raven77]

Every time I fire the game back up I remember how much I hate the base building. It is confusing to me, seems generally pointless, yet much of the game seems built around it. I will likely never go back to it again.

 

[SuperBanana]

It's quite ambitious and unique for when it was released

Not really. It was very similar to Oblivion in terms of what it delivered. It just had a better art style and more core mechanics like Dragon Shouts ect. There was nothing exactly unique about it though. Morrowind was extremely ambitious and unique though.

 

[Neo_Geo]

When you put a multitude of band-aids on an Xbox 360 engine from 2005 to make a big budget AAA game a decade later....You are walking fucking backwards and are a pathetically useless developer moving forward. The game deserved a new engine, but fucking your customer out of a bit more profit was more important. Bethesda should be ashamed of themselves. There is nothing more to say.

 

[afternoon delight]

Bethesda games have been getting worse since morrowind. People just started noticing with FO4.

You have my sword though many will dispute you.

It's Bethesda, not the other way around.

And it's because they wanted to do anything but an RPG, and thought Diablo and Minecraft were more important influence then Fallout 1 or even New Vegas.

Yowch but agreed.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

I still contend that Fallout 4 is a pretty good open world shooter, but an awful Fallout game.

 

[tuco11]

I am confused, what are some examples of "the industry leaving Bethesda behind"?

 

[ezekial45]

It was all them. They had a number of ideas that were very misguided. Such as a voiced protag (limiting role-playing potential) and the core-gameplay going far more action oriented. It was disappointing, and they definitely could've done better.

Still a very solid and fun game, though.

 

[chandoog]

Still waiting on that Pro patch before I start playing it. Waiting to see what the game is like before committing to any DLC.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Fallout 4 is disappointing but I don't think it's as much a case of the industry leaving Bethesda so much as certain sects of core gamers. F4 wasn't made to court Fallout fans, not in the way Fallout 3 was. It was made primarily to appeal to the new industry trend of empowering player self-expression above all else. It's selling to people who've come into gaming on Minecraft, GTA, and the Skyrim mod scene. Every element of the game needs to be customizable, tweakable, reactable. Everything needs a tangible gameplay purpose that feeds back into the player's progression and self expression. A story that forces you to commit, that locks off content? Towns that you can't build and customize yourself? Characters who don't wear what you tell them to or disagree/oppose you? That's anathema to this concept. The player is the architect, the developers just exist to build a sandbox for them to express themselves in.

And to its credit, it's when it plays to these strengths that F4 shines. Hunting for loot and salvage, tweaking your weapons and armor just right, building your base and making things look nice. The game is great for that. But all the traditional role play elements are deliberately stripped out or reduced to shift focus to the gameplay aspect. And that's not for everyone.

 

[MisterBrimstone]

The only problem with fallout 4 is that it came after Fallout NV and, while it improved some aspects, they totally butchered others.

Funny enough, that's how I feel with Fallout 3 after Fallout 2 but I do understand the market changed and they had to adapt the franchise. Same exact thing happened with Resident Evil 4.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Cutting corners: The game

 

[hydruxo]

FO4 was fine. It didn't reinvent anything, but it was a fun game and I thoroughly enjoyed my time playing it. Skyrim seemed like much more of a leap forward at the time though, whereas FO4 didn't really do much new besides the settlement feature.

 

[Lasthope106]

I didn't finish the game but I did sink in about 20 hours or so, and I stopped playing because of other commitments and not because the game sucked, so take my post as you wish.

Fallout 4 was fine. It had improved graphics. I enjoyed the base-building/crafting aspect of it. The game certainly felt like a Bethesda Fallout game to me.

There is notion here on GAF that every sequel must be a revolutionary improvement. I feel that is unrealistic. I would have gladly paid more money if Bethesda had continued making more content for Fallout 3.

The only issue was the dialogue system, but given that a lot of the game is exploring, shooting, and doing other things, I find it annoying that so many people harp on that aspect of the game and make it appear as if the rest of the game is a pile of shit. It is not.

Last I heard was that Bethesda is a very small studio, so I'm actually surprised by the scope of their games. The Witcher 3 looks as good because they are a bigger studio and they basically bet the future of the company on one title. Bethesda does not have to do that with Fallout. Perhaps that is the problem.

 

[Stoffinator]

I think I am the only one who liked Fallout 4.

 

[Muzicfreq]

I personally liked fallout 4 but I think it's just their formula that's getting old.

 

[Buckle]

Fallout 3 might be my favorite game of all time whereas 4 kind of broke my heart a lil after waiting so long.

I've always appreciate the way Bethesda streamlines their gameplay but they went cutting in the wrong places this time. Mainly the dialog choices and adding a voiced protagonist which I wasn't really a fan of. Its just not as fun to quest when all of your characters start to feel and sound the same compared to all the hours you put into 3 and NV on many different playthroughs.

They probably thought they were improving the storytelling, making it more focused by removing more choices and making the game seem more cinematic but all it really felt like to me is that it highlighted their weaknesses, mainly in the writing department.

 

[wbEMX]

I actually really liked Fallout 4, but I don't have much to compare because FO4 was my first Fallout game.

 

[RedFury]

I don't get it with Wolfenstein and DOOMs incredible success (because of their return to form imo) i don't understand how they fucked this up so bad. Man when I had to go find green paint...ugh man what the fuck. It was one of my most anticipated games. If I could have an FPS version of fallout 1&2 with modern mechanics that would be perfect. Enjoyed 3 but saw it as a good base, NV came out and thought this is better. We were almost there and I guess that's what I expected with 4...my mistake.

I actually really liked Fallout 4, but I don't have much to compare because FO4 was my first Fallout game.

My friend do yourself a favor and play New Vegas, best fallout (as far as FPS versions go). If you enjoyed it because of the world and lore and not because it's janky combat then I highly recommend fallout 1&2. Fallout games quite frequently go for cheap on PC.

 

[Kade]

Their reluctance to meet the standards of their peers despite their tremendous success and growth is why Fallout 4 is bad. I like and respect that they experiment and change things with each of their games but they've got a perfect track record of changing things that didn't need to be changed and ruining things as a result. Fallout 4 was one big dismissal of past Bethesda games and the last generation of the RPG genre as a whole. I'm interested to see whatever they're working on next turns out after the reception Fallout 4 received and Witcher 3 eating their lunch in 2015 with the main game and in 2016 with the DLC.

 

[djplaeskool]

A good game that somehow managed to be unbelievably dull narrative-wise.
14 hours, "War never changes", and I was done.

 

[MrCunningham]

After Fallout 3, I've basically had no desire to play Fallout again.

Shame because Fallout New Vegas was great.

Fallout 4 is about what I would have expected from a Bethesda mainline game. In some ways it is an improvement over Fallout 3, but I also feel like the game world is a bit dry. It lacks the colourfulness of the Obsidian games (tonally) or the previous 2D games.

 

[Barry Burton]

I was actually liking Fallout 4 quite a bit when I was just going around exploring the world, going from place-to-place scavenging. In that respect, it was the most satisfying open-world in a year with a lot of open-world games.

But the quests, whether they were main story quests or side quests, were mostly awful. The further along in the main story that I got, the less and less enjoyment I was getting out of the game. Part of me wishes I never engaged in any of that, just explored as much of the game map as I could, and called it a day. It's a rare game that actually would have been better without giving you any actual objectives besides exploring and surviving - the quest design, writing and dialogue is that bad.