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Washington Post: What a doctor saw in a Texas shelter for migrant children

Havoc2049

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Mar 30, 2011
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Heres a good plan..

You head to the border. Apply for Asylum. Walk back to whatever border town you did so in your own country and wait to find out if your asylum was granted.

What they did..
Walk to the border, got turned away, illegal crossed, then asked for asylum..

And what do we do? Just give them an apartment while they wait? Cut them a weekly welfare check till they find out?

And how are they supposed to do this?
How do they background check THOUSANDS of people a day instantly?!?! and let them in?!

It's like you guys think it's a guy at a booth, he asked your name, why you want into the US and he hits a button and it says "Juan has no criminal charges! Juan and his families story is true about needing asylum! We have housing and social net ready for them!!"

These people are coming by the THOUSAND! What do we do?!?

You forgot about the cost of flying these people back to their country of origin if their asylum claim is denied. The majority of these asylum seekers are from Central America and Asia. BTW, what we are seeing now might just be the tip of the iceberg. CBP Officers and Border Patrol Agents are bilingual in English and Spanish, but interpreters who speak Punjabi and Hindi are in BIG demand right now along the southwest border.
 
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TheMikado

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Jan 3, 2018
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So I just want to clarify. Leftists think that doing something illegal in a country should be allowed? This is what happens when you don't respect another country. This is what happens when you break the law. I have no sympathy for these people. If these immigrants are as smart as I keep being told they are then they would never end up here. And yet here they are. This proves several facts leftists choose to ignore. These people have no value and nor do their children.

I mean if we really want to deter them we could always decapitate them at the border. Hook them up to a human centipede, maybe even burn them at the stake and hang their carcasses over the wall as warning to others who want to illegally cross.

If you want to justify something as "enforcing the law" where do you draw the line for punishment? If everything is fair game, would you be opposed to any of the methods asked above?
If not, how can you really claim to be committed to upholding the law? Everyone has their lines for what is humane punishment and what isn't. For some people, taking another human beings child, possibly forever in a situation where they may fall into harm, as a means of punishment or deterrent crosses that line of being humane. For the those for the policy, I'm just curious where you line on humane treatment is in regards to those crossing the border illegally.
 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
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An HHS official added that the agency expects to be taking about 250 kids each day at least for the next two months. If that estimate holds, HHS could be caring for 18,500 more children by the end of August.

The HHS official said as of Friday, HHS was already holding 11,500 children, which means the total could hit 30,000 by August.


This is gonna affect mid-terms.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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Sep 29, 2014
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It seems to me that this became a hot issue after a picture was posted from 2014 showing the same thing happening under a different president that was blamed on our current one.

When that got discredited the media doubled down to manufacture outrage over what should be considered to be a necessary evil. If you are going to offer due process to illegal immigrants, then they need to be detained and their children need to be taken care of.

I don't have an issue keeping the children with their parents, but I don't think the system is really set up for that, nor should detention be set up in a comfortable way. Even if you keep the families together, they are going to be in "cages", probably with worse care for the children.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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Sep 1, 2017
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Do the crime, be prepared to do the time- period. These invaders can either follow our laws and apply just like anyone else- or they can face the consequences. The United States cannot be caretaker to failed states, their cast offs or their offspring. That’s called life. Make your own home a better place before you come to squat in mine.
 

Max Legroom

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Jun 16, 2018
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There seems to be some confusion and misinformation as to why this situation is different than under previous administrations. The reason is two-fold. Previous administrations did not see the need to prosecute every single misdemeanor crime of illegal entry (the Sessions "zerio tolerance" memorandum), and in instances where they did, did not insist on detaining the accused prior to trial.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Flores vs Reno. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his parents arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)

The Court decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.

You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?

As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.

It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.

A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997
 

TheMikado

Banned
Jan 3, 2018
1,405
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Do the crime, be prepared to do the time- period. These invaders can either follow our laws and apply just like anyone else- or they can face the consequences. The United States cannot be caretaker to failed states, their cast offs or their offspring. That’s called life. Make your own home a better place before you come to squat in mine.

If we really want to deter people we could string them up by their toenails and put them up on stakes every couple of yards as a warning to trespassers.
 

natjjohn

Member
Oct 15, 2007
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284
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There seems to be some confusion and misinformation as to why this situation is different than under previous administrations. The reason is two-fold. Previous administrations did not see the need to prosecute every single misdemeanor crime of illegal entry (the Sessions "zerio tolerance" memorandum), and in instances where they did, did not insist on detaining the accused prior to trial.


Agree. Been pointed out how it’s not the same, and how this isn’t a necessary evil. Can process these situations without needlessly traumatizing children.

Won’t do a new thread, but:



 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
17,096
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Do the crime, be prepared to do the time- period. These invaders can either follow our laws and apply just like anyone else- or they can face the consequences. The United States cannot be caretaker to failed states, their cast offs or their offspring. That’s called life. Make your own home a better place before you come to squat in mine.

Invaders. We should hang their bodies up on crosses along the border as a deterrent. You didn't suggest that, but you're just as dismissive at the end.
 

Max Legroom

Banned
Jun 16, 2018
39
7
0
In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Flores vs Reno. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his parents arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)

The Court decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.

You see, when aliens cross the border illegally, they are incarcerated until their criminal case is decided. The understandable argument at the time was “why should children be incarcerated while their parents are in jail?” It seemed a fundamental violation of international human rights. Makes sense, right?

As a result, The Flores case drew a line in the sand. Children could not be incarcerated with their parents or accompanying adult while being held for illegal immigration violations. And a subsequent 1997 agreement stipulated that children must be placed in a safer environment where they could enjoy certain privileges, including education, a clean, safe environment and other normal life cycle amenities that incarcerated individuals do not enjoy.

It was considered a “victory” for human rights. By separating adult and child, we protected the children, reducing any harm done to them for their parent’s or accompanying adult’s decisions.

A lot has happened since then. However; bottom line, these juvenile, shelters have been operating in accordance with the law, and overseen by the Department of Health and Human Services to protect those children from the hazards of parental incarceration since 1997

It's understandable that you might not want people to know you get your information from loopy conspiracy websites like Abovetopsecret and "rumormillnews.com," but isn't it nonetheless proper etiquette to provide a link to the source when you just lift from it wholesale?
 
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natjjohn

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It's understandable that you might not want people to know you get your information from loopy conspiracy websites like Abovetopsecret and "rumormillnews.com," but isn't it nonetheless proper etiquette to provide a link to the source when you just lift from it wholesale?


Also got the basics of the Elián González situation wrong. He wasn’t taken from his parents, but returned to his father (his mother had already passed). The picture is infamous, but those peopl weren’t his parents. Elián was telling those people he wanted to go home with his father...
 

Max Legroom

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Jun 16, 2018
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Also got the basics of the Elián González situation wrong. He wasn’t taken from his parents, but returned to his father (his mother had already passed). The picture is infamous, but those peopl weren’t his parents. Elián was telling those people he wanted to go home with his father...

Yep, but there had to be a Klinton Konnection somewhere! That incident may have cost Gore the election.

Unfortunately my father in law forwards me this type of bogus nonsense all the time.
 
Mar 19, 2018
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Also got the basics of the Elián González situation wrong. He wasn’t taken from his parents, but returned to his father (his mother had already passed). The picture is infamous, but those peopl weren’t his parents. Elián was telling those people he wanted to go home with his father...

Yeah, his mother had basically illegally kidnapped him from his father and brought him here and his Dad wanted him back. Was pretty simple. It got news because of the video and photos, especially of the one with Elian supposedly screaming at an armed soldier. As expected, the usual bleeding heart hand-wringing ensued, much like with this issue. And, much like with this issue, it'll be out of the news cycle in a week and we'll all be worrying about the next travesty. The beat goes on.

Though, I will say this idea of needing asylum from crime and abuse is pretty ridiculous. Asylum is when your government or authorities are actively abusing their people. It's not when you live in a bad neighborhood or married some asshole who beats you. If that is grounds for asylum, then I'd rather we "provide asylum" to Americans who are dealing with that before we deal with foreigners.

Yep, but there had to be a Klinton Konnection somewhere! That incident may have cost Gore the election.

Um, no, it didn't. I'd say Gore being the most boring human on the planet lost him the election. Horrible choice by the Dems.
 
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Texas Pride

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As a parent myself it's naive and ignorant to put the blame on anyone other than the parents for their kids situation. The laws can't just be ignored when it suits your agenda. A few years ago my sister was arrested and had her kids put in foster care until I could take them. It happens here with US citizens every day. So I don't feel sorry for non US citizens being held to the same standards we all are. Every country has a right to their sovereignty. Yet the US is criticized for enforcement of our border laws bcs Democrats want open borders for their own reasons and it's not bcs they truly care it's bcs it expands their voter pool. We can't sustain just letting anyone in to our country. It costs resources and money that doesn't materialize out of thin air. If these immigrants aren't being supported in the country their from why should we care more than their own country? Letting the parents off with no responsibility for their kids fates they created is just wrong.
 

Dev1lXYZ

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Sep 1, 2017
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Also got the basics of the Elián González situation wrong. He wasn’t taken from his parents, but returned to his father (his mother had already passed). The picture is infamous, but those peopl weren’t his parents. Elián was telling those people he wanted to go home with his father...

The courts in 1997 came up with the child separation law, you forgot that one, Mr. Saturday night.
 
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JKRMA

Banned
Feb 5, 2010
262
16
530
Do the crime, be prepared to do the time- period. These invaders can either follow our laws and apply just like anyone else- or they can face the consequences. The United States cannot be caretaker to failed states, their cast offs or their offspring. That’s called life. Make your own home a better place before you come to squat in mine.

Tell that to the Natives of your home as well as all the people your home kidnapped to be slaves.
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Nov 26, 2007
4,468
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I was wondering which thread would make me disgusted enough to give up on this place.

Turns out this is it.
 

TrainedRage

Banned
Feb 3, 2018
9,302
14,339
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USA
I was wondering which thread would make me disgusted enough to give up on this place.

Turns out this is it.
...and nothing of value was lost. :eek:

Or you could post your opinion and possible solutions, but nah stick you head in the sand and run off. That will surely fix this problem.
 

camelCase

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Feb 8, 2018
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As a parent myself it's naive and ignorant to put the blame on anyone other than the parents for their kids situation. The laws can't just be ignored when it suits your agenda. A few years ago my sister was arrested and had her kids put in foster care until I could take them. It happens here with US citizens every day. So I don't feel sorry for non US citizens being held to the same standards we all are. Every country has a right to their sovereignty. Yet the US is criticized for enforcement of our border laws bcs Democrats want open borders for their own reasons and it's not bcs they truly care it's bcs it expands their voter pool. We can't sustain just letting anyone in to our country. It costs resources and money that doesn't materialize out of thin air. If these immigrants aren't being supported in the country their from why should we care more than their own country? Letting the parents off with no responsibility for their kids fates they created is just wrong.

Good point, qft.
 

zumphry

Banned
Jul 16, 2009
2,375
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As a parent myself it's naive and ignorant to put the blame on anyone other than the parents for their kids situation. The laws can't just be ignored when it suits your agenda. A few years ago my sister was arrested and had her kids put in foster care until I could take them. It happens here with US citizens every day. So I don't feel sorry for non US citizens being held to the same standards we all are. Every country has a right to their sovereignty. Yet the US is criticized for enforcement of our border laws bcs Democrats want open borders for their own reasons and it's not bcs they truly care it's bcs it expands their voter pool. We can't sustain just letting anyone in to our country. It costs resources and money that doesn't materialize out of thin air. If these immigrants aren't being supported in the country their from why should we care more than their own country? Letting the parents off with no responsibility for their kids fates they created is just wrong.

haha how is your sister getting arrested in any way comparable
 

Moneal

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Sep 13, 2013
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haha how is your sister getting arrested in any way comparable
I would guess that its comparable since the sister broke the law and separated from her kids, and if someone breaks the law by entering the country illegally the kids get separated.
 

zumphry

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I would guess that its comparable since the sister broke the law and separated from her kids, and if someone breaks the law by entering the country illegally the kids get separated.

seeking asylum isn't against the law
 

Texas Pride

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Feb 27, 2018
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haha how is your sister getting arrested in any way comparable


She did something illegal. As a result lost her kids bcs as minors they can't fend for themselves. The same way these people have lost their kids. My point is when you break the law in this country you're responsible for the consequences. It's not the governments fault my sister lost her kids anymore than it's the governments fault people said fuck US law and are being punished for it. These people want to be part of America and it starts with obeying the same laws US citizens have to or you're subjected to the same consequences we are. But go ahead and act obtuse ha ha ha ha. Funny right?
 

Moneal

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seeking asylum isn't against the law
nope it isn't and no one is getting separated from their kids for seeking asylum or even being arrested for it while doing it at a port of entry, where it is supposed to happen. they are getting separated from their kids and arrested for illegally entering the country, being caught and then asking for asylum.
 

Texas Pride

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Z zumphry

Tell ya what buddy. How about you give me your address and I'll send an illegal family to your house? It's cool to act outraged and "resist" and rage on the internet but how far are YOU willing to go to help the situation you believe in so much?
 
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Ekdrm2d1

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Aug 11, 2011
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Tell ya what buddy. How about you give me your address and I'll send an illegal family to your house? It's cool to act outraged and "resist" and rage on the internet but how far are YOU willing to go to help the situation you believe in so much?

Votting for Abbott I assume?
 

zumphry

Banned
Jul 16, 2009
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nope it isn't and no one is getting separated from their kids for seeking asylum or even being arrested for it while doing it at a port of entry, where it is supposed to happen. they are getting separated from their kids and arrested for illegally entering the country, being caught and then asking for asylum.

lol why would you literally just lie when it's so easily disprovable
 

Moneal

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is there any recent news on this case? has the government stated why the separation happened? this blog is only presenting one side, the side that started the lawsuit.

Edit: NM found it myself. mother came with almost no identification and the two were separated because the agents didn't have proof of the mother and child actually being such. it was later found that through dna that they were and they were reunited.
 
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404Ender

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is there any recent news on this case? has the government stated why the separation happened? this blog is only presenting one side, the side that started the lawsuit.

I doubt that the ACLU chooses their cases to defend frivolously. They have limited resources.

I posted a more recent link earlier in the thread, along with other resources concerning the matter (and other practices of intimidation and rejection that are against our current policies)
 

Moneal

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Will post this again.

just because you apply for asylum doesn't mean you will get in. if they then try to break the law and attempt to get in on their own, its on them when they are arrested.

I doubt that the ACLU chooses their cases to defend frivolously. They have limited resources.

I posted a more recent link earlier in the thread, along with other resources concerning the matter (and other practices of intimidation and rejection that are against our current policies)

found it and responded about that case in an edit. seems the mother didn't have any proof of her and the child being related, so the agents acted according to policy, and they were reunited after dna tests.
 
Aug 18, 2016
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This forum is such a fucking disaster my god. We have completely lost the ability to talk about anything without people victim-signaling or teamsporting for their political party.

I think we need to hold illegal immigrants accountable for trying to get into this country illegally. But I also think there is a better way than what the current administration is doing.

Every fucking thread on this subject (and in general) is some “whatabout hillary/obama” clusterfuck by the usual suspects completely stripped of nuance where anyone showing up at the border is some hardened rapist criminal, despite the fact that many desperate people are clearly being caught in the crossfire. Despite the numerous stories of ICE deporting law-abiding legal immigrants with misdemeanors which is not supposed to be the case.

Like, we can find a fair and civilized way to enforce our laws. That is NOT what is happening right now.

I'm glad you said it so I wouldn't have to.

I've never been more ashamed to be an American. And there's practically nothing I can do about it. I've been on Twitter reading about how elected government officials can't even get into some of these places just to monitor how the children are being treated.

Children. Being treated like animals.

I really don't have anything nice to say so I will stop now.
 
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404Ender

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just because you apply for asylum doesn't mean you will get in. if they then try to break the law and attempt to get in on their own, its on them when they are arrested.

They weren't even given an opportunity to apply for asylum.

found it and responded about that case in an edit. seems the mother didn't have any proof of her and the child being related, so the agents acted according to policy, and they were reunited after dna tests.

And this is the crux of the issue.

This is someone who tried to do everything right. Followed the rules. She forgot (or never had in the first place) some papers. And for that, she was separated from her child, over 1000 miles away, for months. She didn't even commit a crime.

That's a terrible policy.

It's one thing to support this for people who cross illegally. I think it's a terrible and unsustainable solution, but at least it has a shred of logic behind it. But for this woman, and others like her? Why separate them? Why not let them wait, together, for the results of the DNA test? What is gained for anyone by separating them?
 

Sàmban

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Feb 21, 2014
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Agree. Been pointed out how it’s not the same, and how this isn’t a necessary evil. Can process these situations without needlessly traumatizing children.

Won’t do a new thread, but:



just gonna quote this again

there is clearly something more malicious going on here than "just enforcing our laws"

Regardless of your political affiliations, making jokes about children crying for their parents is pretty fucked up
 

Ke0

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That sucks and all, but again why did the parents think they could just start pouring over our border and we are required to take care of them? There are no guarantees for asylum. They're coming here illegally.
Don't you have to be in the US to ask for asylum? How can it be illegal?
 

camelCase

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I'd rather have them in my country than you.

That's because you are blinded by your blatantly emotional reaction to politics and you had momentarily lost the ability to think clearly. You are a reckless fool to allow random people residence in your nation.
 
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Dev1lXYZ

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There are US Embassies all over South America and Mexico. When they come over the border...why go that far to seek asylum? Doesn’t add up.
 

EYEL1NER

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That's because you are blinded by your blatantly emotional reaction to politics and you had momentarily lost the ability to think clearly. You are a reckless fool to allow random people residence in your nation.
I mean, I don't know if you agree with that guy or not but if you were to say that you stood by some xenophobic shit like "these people have no value and nor do their children" then I'd think we'd probably be better off with them living here over you as well.
 
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