Watch Dogs: On doubts everything is scripted, PS4 vs Xbox One, PC version

Aug 17, 2012
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Cross generation, multi-platform title.

Not surprised they'll all look as close to the same as possible. We won't see true potential of the consoles until developers move totally to the new platforms and are no longer devoting resources and assets to cross generation development.

For those "calling BS" - you must not have become a gamer until two years ago. This always happens as dev kits evolve over time.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Anybody that expects anything special or spectacular on a launch game (especially a multiplat) clearly wasn't there for the previous console launches.... Give it a year or two AT LEAST before we start seeing amazing stuff on the new consoles.

Edit: God dammit casmith07 lol
 
Sep 12, 2009
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There are many questions about the systemic or scripted nature of the game. Many people have doubts that we’ve scripted everything we shown. This is truly a systemic game – A good example is our E3 2012 demo with the car accident done by hacking the traffic lights, it depends on the amount of vehicles present at the intersection when it is triggered.
But the E3 demo was definitely scripted. Just look at the scene again:

http://youtu.be/xU7WGAJPRRw?t=6m16s

All of the sudden there are tons of cars out of nowhere.
 
I call BS. The advances that are made late in a generation are usually due to lower FOVs, lower resolution and smart level design. We are long past utilizing the true potential of hardware, it's there. Both consoles are comparable and the GPU hardware they have has been long known on PC. If they don't see a major difference it's because there is none. PS4 rumours of overheating GDDR5 RAM might be true after all. Or those DMEs on X1 are truly secret sauce and quite powerful. This is not a case of Cell which was unknown tech and allowed for some improvements over time, this is PC tech. Familiar territory for any programmer. If we don't see a 60 % increase in graphical fidelity on PS4 it's because the 0.8 difference in teraflops is just on paper and does not exist in real life.
Here's some nice reading for you:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-playstation-4
 
May 29, 2009
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Watch Dogs on Xbox One will have a more dynamic city compared to Xbox 360, PS3 and PS4

“Physics calculations, similarly, aren't dependent on strict timing. The way a tree reacts to weather, it's physics, right?" Guay went on. "It's bending materials. Well, what if I could run that on the cloud? It doesn't need to be fully synced. There are occasions where there will be an advantage, but it's clear in the short term there's plenty of power within the machines. That's where our engineers are working."

In addition to those comments Mr. Guay went on to talk a bit about the graphics and the “dynamism” of the city. Here is what he had to say:

"For example, we’re able to simulate the water in full 3D, if you go on a boat the waves that form will affect other boats. We’re also able to spend more time giving brains to the other people on the streets so that they can basically be smarter, and there can be more of them. It’s what I call dynamism; basically, the way the city reacts to you, we are able to push further on the Xbox One.”
 
Oct 1, 2006
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peter.metaclassofnil.com
Nov 16, 2012
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If you miss it, last week over at B3D they have been discussing a XB1 with a 875mhz to 1Ghz GPU and 12GB of RAM. It was supposed to be announced yesterday according to multiple sources.
Is that speculation discussion or based on a rumour. Man, why would they do that after announcing 8GB of RAM?? That makes no sense at all.

Can you send a link to the B3D forums plz?
 
Jan 5, 2008
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I call bullshit on the traffic accident not being scripted. Massive firefight with car explosions and a cutscene with the dude crawling out of the car. How was that not scripted?

Then there was this years demo where you can save your friend "however you want", yet there is a garage to duck into right beside the building he is in.

If the game had choices, they would show them.
 

ekim

Member
May 2, 2012
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If you miss it, last week over at B3D they have been discussing a XB1 with a 875mhz to 1Ghz GPU and 12GB of RAM. It was supposed to be announced yesterday according to multiple sources.
Hah. That's nothing - head over to misterxmedia...
http://misterxmedia.livejournal.com/127975.html#comments

So from my understanding we will be getting a single or dual 7970s with custom architecture, making it a dual or single 8970 with various tech from a HD9xxx.

How much does DP add to performance?? 2-3-4x the on paper tflops?? we already know dev kits represent the raw power of the console. Dev kits also have no custom architecture.

So basically 4tflops is the very least we will be getting,(for first year games specifically) implement custom architecture and custom 1.2tflop cpu.

5.2tflops x 2-3-4*= 10tflops- 20tflops. 30fps will be a thing of the past. first year game forza 5 already implementing pathtracing, 1080p 60fps on 4tflop.
20Tflops!
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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I would love to read those quotes in context. Why is there no source?
The original source is NowGamer, and he is responding in context of what 'next-gen' will allow in Watch Dogs, so I think he's talking about differences between current gen and next-gen, not between XB1 and PS4.

Previously they already talked about water (and wind and particles) as one of the things that will be ramped up on next-gen vs current gen versions.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/198718...f_those_machines_says_watch_dog_producer.html

The same guy talks about the same stuff in the context of 'next-gen' more generally to NowGamer here:

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1963647/watch_dogs_ubisoft_details_nextgen_differences.html

"There's graphics, of course, but there's also the dynamism of the city. For example, the water is far more realistic on next gen, the way it flows and parts when you drive a boat through it. We also gave better brains to NPCs, they are smarter in what they do and how they react to the player. Plus, there is a lot more of them on the street at once.
It's amazing how these features are always ones that are extremely hard to actually verify. I guess they learned from Sim City.

Also, the stuff about how a tree reacts to weather in a game being "physics" and calculating it in the cloud is incredibly silly.

In fairness, they're not using anything like this in Watch Dogs, so he was probably just reaching for something to talk about for the sake of having an answer.
 
Feb 26, 2007
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It's amazing how these features are always ones that are extremely hard to actually verify. I guess they learned from Sim City.

Also, the stuff about how a tree reacts to weather in a game being "physics" and calculating it in the cloud is incredibly silly.
But I saw the tree's react to the helicopters wind gust in the PS4 demo, without the cloud. Not to mention that stuff happens in many games. Crysis springs to mind. He used a poor choice of words, because dynamic stuff is the Achilles heel of the cloud. It will be ok for stuff that's static or doesn't need to be updated very often, but for anything dynamic, or needing a frame by frame calculation or process, is not going to be used with the cloud. The bandwidth simply does not allow it.
 

ekim

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May 2, 2012
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The original source is NowGamer, and he is responding in context of what 'next-gen' will allow in Watch Dogs, so I think he's talking about differences between current gen and next-gen, not between XB1 and PS4.

Previously they already talked about water (and wind and particles) as one of the things that will be ramped up on next-gen vs current gen versions.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/198718...f_those_machines_says_watch_dog_producer.html

The same guy talks about the same stuff in the context of 'next-gen' more generally to NowGamer here:

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1963647/watch_dogs_ubisoft_details_nextgen_differences.html






In fairness, they're not using anything like this in Watch Dogs, so he was probably just reaching for something to talk about for the sake of having an answer.
Thanks! :)
 
Nov 15, 2008
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B3D sometime it's not the best and most reliable source and no all people over B3D really have a good knowledge about hardware and software.

I like that forum anyway.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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peter.metaclassofnil.com
In fairness, they're not using anything like this in Watch Dogs, so he was probably just reaching for something to talk about for the sake of having an answer.
Oh I agree. That doesn't make it any less silly though. I probably couldn't come up with a less silly example though.

B3D sometime it's not the best and most reliable source and no all people over B3D really have a good knowledge about hardware and software.

I like that forum anyway.
B3D is great as long as you stay out of the console forum.
 
Apr 28, 2010
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Well that settles it.

Canceling my PS4 preorder and going with X1 at launch. The only reason I wanted a PS4 was for the better 3rd party games. I know it will eventually happen, but now that Watch Dogs will be of equal quality there's no reason for me to get a PS4 over X1. Will buy one later for a new Uncharted game.
 
Nov 15, 2008
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About the Dominic Guay interview I think his words can be easily misinterpreted and anyway, well, we will see when the game will be released what is the "best" version between Ps4 and X1, after that, people may enjoy to speculate in any possible way!
 
Jan 15, 2012
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Dat GDDR5 being put to good use. Oh wait..

None of is should be surprised, it will be the exact same as last generation with multiplats with PS4 seeing some minor differences. What is interesting is that they are using the touchpad, and maybe the Kinect Sensor too.

PS4 will only really see true utilisation with it's first party ie less than 15% of titles
(yes I pulled that figure out of my ass lol)
Last generation we saw some major differences such as Skyrim that was almost unplayaple on PS3. The GDDR5 does make great difference, as you have just one pool of fast memory instead of two separate pools, meaning it's going to be easier to program for. If they have less power available on the Xbone, they will have to cut corners and we will see less effects, worst AA, and so on.
 
Apr 1, 2006
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More gpu CUs is one thing... More efficiently using available power and designing a system and helper chips and writing tools to use that power is another thing.

The "it's decided" mentality of one machine being capable of graphics that the other is not, in the real world is quite premature.

The difference in graphics is not nearly as simple as 50% nor will it approach anything like that. There is more to a system than numbers. Especially a closed system that's been highly customized.

If we were talking off the shelf PC boxes then maybe. But these machines are far from that.
 
Sep 12, 2009
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But I saw the tree's react to the helicopters wind gust in the PS4 demo, without the cloud. Not to mention that stuff happens in many games. Crysis springs to mind. He used a poor choice of words, because dynamic stuff is the Achilles heel of the cloud. It will be ok for stuff that's static or doesn't need to be updated very often, but for anything dynamic, or needing a frame by frame calculation or process, is not going to be used with the cloud. The bandwidth simply does not allow it.
What I could actually imagine is the cloud being used for making the world more consistent. Like you drop some item and when you (after a couple of hours) come come back it is still there because it was just "saved" on the cloud.
 
Dec 20, 2006
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Some of this absolutely has to be scripted. If you're expected to cause an accident as your target gets to an intersection, it would be annoying if traffic did not cooperate with you every time. It would suck to have to try and retry that section because regular traffic patterns didn't allow the accident to happen. However, if there are many other ways to proceed if the traffic accident fails, then that would be ok to leave unscripted and have it as something you may get lucky with. Hardly the stuff of movie-quality though if you continually fail to catch the target with most things you try because nothing is scripted...

What I could actually imagine is the cloud being used for making the world more consistent. Like you drop some item and when you (after a couple of hours) come come back it is still there because it was just "saved" on the cloud.
But even that's not really needed these days. You can come back hours later in Skyrim and find stuff laying around as you left it. And that's a game that didn't require HDD installation and runs off a fraction of the RAM we're getting next gen. Needing a cloud to save bits of information about where objects are? So if your Internet connection goes down in the middle of the game, all those objects disappear? When instead they can just build it from the ground up to not need the cloud at all? The fact is that developers will want to give gamers the full experience whether or not they're in the cloud. In order to do that, you have to basically not do anything important in the cloud that could potentially damage the game experience when you're without it.
 

SJRB

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May 10, 2012
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chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
Dec 7, 2006
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Well that settles it.

Canceling my PS4 preorder and going with X1 at launch. The only reason I wanted a PS4 was for the better 3rd party games. I know it will eventually happen, but now that Watch Dogs will be of equal quality there's no reason for me to get a PS4 over X1. Will buy one later for a new Uncharted game.
If there was one thing I would never base my purchasing decisions on, it's when devs talk about console parity, graphics wise. Because that can backfire.
 

ekim

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May 2, 2012
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This is factually wrong and very annoying because it creates false sentiment.

The quote is based on the difference between current gen and next gen versions, as I've already explained a page or two ago.
Well the original source (nowgamer) can be read in either way. I tend to agree with you but you shouldn't say it is factually wrong.
 
Aug 25, 2009
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I am SO fucking glad I'm not this cynical when it comes to games. Just like the people who nitpick EVERY single thing about a movie.

I just go for the ride and I either have fun or I don't. Watch_Dogs looks fun.
Amen. Reading that made me wonder how they could enjoy any game. I got the PS4 with WD reserved and I cannot wait. Shit, GTA, Sleeping Dogs, and Saints Row all have very expected scenarios and gameplay, and they all are fun as hell.
 
Mar 22, 2007
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Well that settles it.

Canceling my PS4 preorder and going with X1 at launch. The only reason I wanted a PS4 was for the better 3rd party games. I know it will eventually happen, but now that Watch Dogs will be of equal quality there's no reason for me to get a PS4 over X1. Will buy one later for a new Uncharted game.
Prepare to have regrets...

Developers:
The Sega Saturn and PSX versions will look the same
The PS2 and Xbox version will look the same
The Xbox360 and PS3 version will look the same

See a trend...
 

SJRB

Member
May 10, 2012
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Jun 23, 2010
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Well that settles it.

Canceling my PS4 preorder and going with X1 at launch. The only reason I wanted a PS4 was for the better 3rd party games. I know it will eventually happen, but now that Watch Dogs will be of equal quality there's no reason for me to get a PS4 over X1. Will buy one later for a new Uncharted game.
you might want to hesitate on that cancelation...

http://www.oxm.co.uk/57743/watch-dogs-will-have-a-more-dynamic-city-on-xbox-one/

even the official xbox magazine is not trying to spin this quote as Xbone vs PS4...the question was asked SPECIFICALLY in the context of 360 vs Xbone
 
Apr 1, 2006
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Well the original source (nowgamer) can be read in either way. I tend to agree with you but you shouldn't say it is factually wrong.
exactly .... the general premise of the article is next v last but reading the part about dynamism and Xbox One is a distinct description


you might want to hesitate on that cancelation...

http://www.oxm.co.uk/57743/watch-dogs-will-have-a-more-dynamic-city-on-xbox-one/

even the official xbox magazine is not trying to spin this quote as Xbone vs PS4...the question was asked SPECIFICALLY in the context of 360 vs Xbone

good find...


Also the most interesting part of both of these articles however is not the dynamisms of the One/PS4,... but...

Ravi Sinha: Given all the hype and hoopla around the PS4, what are your thoughts on the Xbox One? How is the Xbox One version of the game going to be different compared to the PC and the PS4 one?


Dominic Guay: The Xbox One is a powerful platform, as of now we do not foresee a major difference in on screen result between the PS4 and the Xbox One.
But, even now we realise that both of them have comparable power, and for us that’s good, but everyday it changes almost
they will be closer than 50% on screen
 
Apr 28, 2010
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If there was one thing I would never base my purchasing decisions on, it's when devs talk about console parity, graphics wise. Because that can backfire.
Well I'm also basing my purchase decision on the fact that other than Watch Dogs there's no other game on PS4 at launch that interest me. There's 3 games that I really want on X1 with a few others announced for a later release. It's as simple as that the more I think of it.

GoofsterStud said:
Prepare to have regrets...

Developers:
The Sega Saturn and PSX versions will look the same
The PS2 and Xbox version will look the same
The Xbox360 and PS3 version will look the same

See a trend...
What exactly am I going to regret seeing as how I will eventually buy both systems?

If Watch Dogs, The Crew, The Division, Final Fantasy XV, and MGS5 were all released during launch and are noticeably better on PS4 then I wouldn't even consider getting an X1.

As of now, there's nothing that I want on PS4 other than Watch Dogs and there's no reason for me to believe that the two versions will be different until proven otherwise. If there's more news of a major disparity between the two consoles in the near future than I will get a PS4. It is not looking that way at the moment.
 
Sep 12, 2009
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But even that's not really needed these days. You can come back hours later in Skyrim and find stuff laying around as you left it. And that's a game that didn't require HDD installation and runs off a fraction of the RAM we're getting next gen. Needing a cloud to save bits of information about where objects are? So if your Internet connection goes down in the middle of the game, all those objects disappear? When instead they can just build it from the ground up to not need the cloud at all? The fact is that developers will want to give gamers the full experience whether or not they're in the cloud. In order to do that, you have to basically not do anything important in the cloud that could potentially damage the game experience when you're without it.
But I imagine that there is a reason why Skyrim is one of the few games that actually do it. So if it burdens the hardware less than I would certainly welcome it.

Losing internet connection would suck, but when the developer would have that mindset of giving everyone the exact same experience he'd probably not make use of the cloud at all.
 
Dec 20, 2006
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But I imagine that there is a reason why Skyrim is one of the few games that actually do it. So if it burdens the hardware less than I would certainly welcome it.

Losing internet connection would suck, but when the developer would have that mindset of giving everyone the exact same experience he'd probably not make use of the cloud at all.
But that's exactly my point. Without knowing each and every gamer's Internet connection status, why devote resources of your game to only function in the cloud if you can't be sure of the quality of the connection? The fact is that you wouldn't want to do that for anything important to the game. Since the new systems are quite capable of doing these calculations without a cloud server, games will be setup to provide the entire experience outside of the cloud, leaving the cloud to handle the parts of the game that are needed externally like cloud saves and dedicated multiplayer servers. Which both companies will provide.

I'm just skeptical of all this talk that primary game functions and calculations being handled in the cloud.
 
Jul 18, 2005
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As opposed to that article, I don't randomly pull quotes out of thin air.

Guay on the differences between current and next gen versions.

In fact, that entire article is straight up false. Dominic Guay at Sessler during E3, who smirks when Sessler asks about the cloud and laughs it away saying that they don't need it.

Is there more context to the current article in question (this one: http://www.nowgamer.com/news/198718...f_those_machines_says_watch_dog_producer.html ).
Because going by the article it clearly seems like they are talking about PS4 vs. Xbone, but it's obviously lacking context.

(I really wouldn't buy it at all that the Xbone with the "power of the cloud" would actually deliver a better experience than the PS4, just to make sure that people don't get me wrong)
 
Is there more context to the current article in question (this one: http://www.nowgamer.com/news/198718...f_those_machines_says_watch_dog_producer.html ).
Because going by the article it clearly seems like they are talking about PS4 vs. Xbone, but it's obviously lacking context.

(I really wouldn't buy it at all that the Xbone with the "power of the cloud" would actually deliver a better experience than the PS4, just to make sure that people don't get me wrong)
All of Gamefaqs, N4G.com etc. is ablaze with fanboys claiming a victory for Xbox because of the infinite power of the cloud. It's really funny to read, but also sad that kids and the uninformed consumer are buying into this malarky.