MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
DEATH STRANDING OUT ON NOVEMBER 8TH! PRE-ORDER NOW! SUPPORT GAME CREATIVITY!
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We have too many "too big to fail" gaming companies negatively impacting the industry, and we need to do something about it quickly.
- Thread starter Freedom Gate Co.
- Start date
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Which one ? Steam ?
Burrito Bandito
Banned
and my game library comprises of almost 100% games from those companies. indies suck
archangelmorph
Member
Not to be a pedantic prune...
But there’s not a single company in this industry that is too big to fail.
Even a Sony or MS bowing out would still leave a healthy and vibrant industry that would continue to grow and bare fruit.
There’s no such thing as a games company that holds some form of systemic importance. Being in an entertainment industry this is true simply by definition.
But there’s not a single company in this industry that is too big to fail.
Even a Sony or MS bowing out would still leave a healthy and vibrant industry that would continue to grow and bare fruit.
There’s no such thing as a games company that holds some form of systemic importance. Being in an entertainment industry this is true simply by definition.
angelic
Banned
Still my xmas day game, fuck the hater reviewers. Im all in for an explore of Kojimas pschye of the last 4 years.
Gaming doesn't even need consoles, honestly. PC gaming would be fine on its own. Virtually every Japanese studio other than From is trash now anyway, so I wouldn't even mind them all going under. From could stay in business just off PC sales.
It would actually be a good thing overall. Imagine actually being able to make real PC games without any of the restrictions of having to run on shitstain consoles.
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
You and me both
ROMhack
Member
You and me both
Are you really not buying it on release??
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
Most likely not.....I'll make a thread about my decision in a few days from now.
NecroGiggles
Member
Everytime EA, Activation, ECT buy some developer you can watch while the culture or the newly acquired company slow changes and it is all most all ways a negative over all change. Shear hold value becomes King over everything else.
It seems like any time gaming companies merge it's worse for the gaming community as a whole. I would no be surprised if the game industry starts to look like the movie industry soon with a few giant players controlling 99% of the content soon.
It seems like any time gaming companies merge it's worse for the gaming community as a whole. I would no be surprised if the game industry starts to look like the movie industry soon with a few giant players controlling 99% of the content soon.
ROMhack
Member
I guess it does makes sense to play it over Crimbo week when you've got time.
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Jubenhimer
Member
....Wut?
MiyazakiHatesKojima
Banned
I dontnwant to throw away some of the plans that I have for the next two months because of DS. My mother is visiting and it's her last month. I can't see myself spending so much time.on games, let alone DS instead of spending it with her.
I'll miss ya, Big Mama
diffusionx
Gold Member
It will never happen as long as anyone can download a compiler and start coding. It's so easy for people to make a game and put it out there that this consolidation is simply impossible. It's closer to the music industry where any asshole can make a record and put it out there.
I've been hearing all this stuff for decades - industry is going to crash, big publishers are too powerful, all games are the same, etc. Somehow things always get sorted out. And don't get me wrong - the modern openshit design DOES suck, and the GAAS/battlepass model is terrible and wearing thin, but all that means is there is an opportunity for people to change it up and make a fortune.
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I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Too big to fail... shure the pomp helps, shure it does. Yep!
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
Ok there are the points.
- its a "Free game" xD....There are many objects and clothes that make children and people buy it, so its not so free.
- Lack of a Story or why the situation of shooting each others...But no, they just shoot for a stupid reason.
-The graphics are horrid and simple, except for the sky that is sometimes beautiful.
- Even in the Dance that not have a own style... is a shitty game... is a plagiarism of a Japanese movie, original in concept has nothing.
- The fucking Updates of the game... this piece of crap is eating the Hard disk of the consoles and PC.... i have a 6 TB of PS4 hard disk but is not a reason that they give a Fucking crap that for anything need a fucking Update!!!
- The Lack of OST... there is not a single Song memorable, the OST is puke... nothing revelant.
- Lack of acting voice, even if the have injuries... WTF??!!
-To unlock a "Story mode" you have to pay it.... WHAT??? AND EVEN IN THE PHISYCAL VERSION HAVE THIS PROBLEM!!!!
- The game is disgusting... the popularity is because the "Youtubers Beggars" dont have money to buy real games, so there is the only escape.
-The guns are useless and the Lag Sometimes is not fair that ruin the game.
- For the reason that this fucking trash is ruining the imagination of the developers in creating fabulous stories of the videogames, this garbage is making wonderful games not known because the players are zombified by Fornite and dont give the chance to know more games.
- This piece of shitt is the main reason which is why in the US they are saying that they invoke "Violence" and always set an example to this garbage, when not all games are violent
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PanzerAzel
Member
I keep hearing the word unsustainable and have been for years, and the years keep on rolling by. I know you addressed Indies, but IMO gaming is getting better than ever due to them. There are so many amazing games over a broad spectrum so much so that I can’t even keep count anymore, genres that I’d once given up all hope of ever seeing again are returning, and they’re cheap.
Maybe there’s a crash coming, but if there is, I’m going to be kept busy with all the current games until it recovers.
Maybe there’s a crash coming, but if there is, I’m going to be kept busy with all the current games until it recovers.
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MMaRsu
Banned
none of this makes any sense
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tassletine
Member
I think this may be a matter of perception. The Switch in particular has an abundance of titles, mostly indie, that they push constantly. There's a lot of content and variety there.
If you go to the PS4 store you see a lot more of the big titles which gives an opposite impression.
The only thing I really dislike are Indie games that are just watered down mainstream games with pretty graphics and a slower pace. Something like Journey.
I loved Journey on release but it's given a free pass to indie developers who don't want to concentrate on gameplay.
If you go to the PS4 store you see a lot more of the big titles which gives an opposite impression.
The only thing I really dislike are Indie games that are just watered down mainstream games with pretty graphics and a slower pace. Something like Journey.
I loved Journey on release but it's given a free pass to indie developers who don't want to concentrate on gameplay.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
That is what is happening, yes.
Jubenhimer
Member
In other words, "Here's some more tales from my ass". Unless you give me statistics, your claim is BS.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Don't care about Tencent whatsoever while outside of COD, I have no interest in anything done by Activision. Last time I played a Namco game was 9 years ago with Enslaved: Odyssey to the West. Since then, no interest whatsoever. Don't believe that I have ever played a game from Bandai.
1. Ubisoft is my favorite publisher, developer and go to company. Love Ubi!!!
2. Bethesda is in my top 5 publishers for this generation. Since I have zero interest in Fallout/The Elder Scrolls and thus, can avoid Bethesda Game Studios, I actually enjoy the other development studios within them.
3. Square Enix is still great for me but nowhere near what they were when they were known as SquareSoft.
4. Electronic Arts is okay at best. They should be a lot better. Battlefield is fine, Titanfall 2 is great and I have high confidence in Respawn in regards to Jedi Fallen Order that im expecting it to hit my 9.0/10 scale and be a top 5 game of 2019 for me.
5. THQ Nordic is my best AA publisher (along with Focus Home Interactive) as they make good to great and very underrated games.
6. Take Two is fine. Only care about Rockstar (but wish they would develop MANHUNT 3 and Max Payne 4 while giving GTA/RDR a generation break) and Hangar 13 even though I think they were shutdown but im not sure. Otherwise, they're fine.
Point being is that I like and prefer the bigger companies because the majority of their games appeal to me. As for Indies, literally no interest whatsoever.
1. Ubisoft is my favorite publisher, developer and go to company. Love Ubi!!!
2. Bethesda is in my top 5 publishers for this generation. Since I have zero interest in Fallout/The Elder Scrolls and thus, can avoid Bethesda Game Studios, I actually enjoy the other development studios within them.
3. Square Enix is still great for me but nowhere near what they were when they were known as SquareSoft.
4. Electronic Arts is okay at best. They should be a lot better. Battlefield is fine, Titanfall 2 is great and I have high confidence in Respawn in regards to Jedi Fallen Order that im expecting it to hit my 9.0/10 scale and be a top 5 game of 2019 for me.
5. THQ Nordic is my best AA publisher (along with Focus Home Interactive) as they make good to great and very underrated games.
6. Take Two is fine. Only care about Rockstar (but wish they would develop MANHUNT 3 and Max Payne 4 while giving GTA/RDR a generation break) and Hangar 13 even though I think they were shutdown but im not sure. Otherwise, they're fine.
Point being is that I like and prefer the bigger companies because the majority of their games appeal to me. As for Indies, literally no interest whatsoever.
SS501
Neo Member
Square Enix is too big to fail?
Their 3 Japanese flagship titles (DQXI, KH3, FFXV) didn't even sell as much as Horizon Zero Dawn which was a brand new IP with no strong brand name behind it. Hell, Days Gone sold as much as XV (the best selling of the bunch) and will probably surpass it in sales down the line.
Their 4 Western flagship titles (Deus Ex, Hitman, Tomb Raider, Just Cause) are consistently under-performing and their sales are nowhere near those of their Japanese side. Their latest FY briefing even stated that because Tomb Raider and Just Cause underperfomed so much, they failed to make good profits despite KH3 overperfoming.
Square Enix is nowhere close to being in the same league as the rest of the companies the OP mentioned and they're probably 2 AAA bombs away from getting ruined, they already got close once with XIV 1.0.
Their 3 Japanese flagship titles (DQXI, KH3, FFXV) didn't even sell as much as Horizon Zero Dawn which was a brand new IP with no strong brand name behind it. Hell, Days Gone sold as much as XV (the best selling of the bunch) and will probably surpass it in sales down the line.
Their 4 Western flagship titles (Deus Ex, Hitman, Tomb Raider, Just Cause) are consistently under-performing and their sales are nowhere near those of their Japanese side. Their latest FY briefing even stated that because Tomb Raider and Just Cause underperfomed so much, they failed to make good profits despite KH3 overperfoming.
Square Enix is nowhere close to being in the same league as the rest of the companies the OP mentioned and they're probably 2 AAA bombs away from getting ruined, they already got close once with XIV 1.0.
Fuz
Banned
No.
The indies are in trouble, but the cancerous big corps will be fine.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I hope you have a great month with your mom!I dontnwant to throw away some of the plans that I have for the next two months because of DS. My mother is visiting and it's her last month. I can't see myself spending so much time.on games, let alone DS instead of spending it with her.
I'll miss ya, Big Mama
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
It takes little research to see that there are less Indies on consoles now than there were before and mobile is basically the Mecca for indies.
EA going bankrupt would cause massive shockwaves that would impact other companies. So would Epic games.
Jubenhimer
Member
So you're too lazy to give me a source for your claim, and telling me to fetch it myself. Which means that your just pulling this out of your ass and can't back it up.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
No one smart is going to take your side of the issue, everyone knows most indie games are on mobile or even PC than on consoles, don't fool yourself. The other two have easier access and lower barriers to entry, ID@Xbox only published 1000 games for example.
Jubenhimer
Member
Yeah, because everybody has a computer and phone. It takes no effort to release a game on PC because its an open platform letting you release games wherever you want. But that doesn't mean indie games aren't popular or prevalent on consoles. You mentioned ID@Xbox has signed 1000, 1000 is still a pretty big number. And I don't even need to point to the countless indie success stories on the Switch.
PC will always be the first platform for indie game development because of how ubiquitous PCs are. But consoles aren't left out in the cold either. Simply put, your notion that indies are being roadblocked by the big bad corporations is BS. Otherwise, why would the big three even bother to make in-roads with them?
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PeacefulWorldGuy
Neo Member
Rest in piece Kojima diehard fans, we will miss you... Probably.
"Kojima Gone Gold"
Mass Shift
Member
The crash was largely caused by platform proliferation. There were simply too many gaming systems and not enough unique gaming experiences to justify the existence of all of them.
There were so many "clones" of popular IPs that they devalued nearly all IPs. This would actually happen again in the early 90s as there were both arcade and system clones everywhere. Platforms began dying left and right again .
One example was the $700 Panasonic FZ-1 3DO that my parents purchased for me through a monthly AT&T plan on our phone bill. It was a very powerful system at the time but couldn't get support from any of the big studios. Back then Fighters were king and you couldn't have a system without them. So a little known studio at the time to gave the system a MK clone called Way of the Warrior. And that studio was Naughty Dog.
As much as I enjoyed the game, it was clear the system wasn't going to catch fire without big game studio support. So 3DO died along with 5 other systems that launched in that time period. And I can only refer to what was launched. There were system ANNOUNCEMENTS of an unknown number. Rumors of even Akklaim, Midway and Capcom working on their own systems were swirling around back then.
Everyone wanted to launch a console, especially those who had no business even trying. Cabinet Arcade companies, electronics manufacturers, film studios, auto makers, cable and satellite companies, chip makers, software makers.
Watching others lose millions is what cured the fever for most. Especially once all these investors were scared by the recession that followed.
Ah man, let me stop. I could write a book about that era. All of the big players and fakers who wanted in. Lol.
Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
1. No, there were only 3 consoles that were active nationwide in the US at the time, the too many consoles myth doesn't hold water. Too much software taking up retail space yes, hardware no.
2. Outside of MK and SF fighters weren't moving hardware, when the 3DO launched and it had some of the best third party support for the time. They didn't need fighting games to succeed they needed to drop the price.
3. The 3DO sold millions and had hundreds of games, where are you getting this understanding that it didn't have third party support? It also stayed on the shelves until 1997.
4. Capcom did release a system, the home version of its CPS1 arcade machine in 1994.
Are you getting your gaming history from AVGN?
You basically just made up something that I never said, I'm confused about what you are even arguing? My original statement was that most indies moved to mobile and PC, and consoles have less now then they had before, which I though was pretty obvious. Last gen was when indies exploded and there were way more on consoles then than now. They were also more prominent, look at how big some of the indies were on the 360.
Jubenhimer
Member
And do you have anything to back up this rediculous claim? Saying things like Indies are moving away from consoles when this generation has proved the opposite doesn't make it fact. Some of the biggest success stories this gen are indie games. Shovel Knight, Rocket League, Minecraft, Celeste, Cuphead, Hellblade, and several others. Last gen wasn't that big for indies really in comparison, digital distribution was still a novelty, and publishers hated services like Xbox Live Arcade. Today? Most developers love working with the big 3 for indie games.
Arachnid
Member
There's nothing you can do about it man. The behemoths will always be around. How long has everyone been waiting for COD to crash and get stale for the general public? Or Assassins Creed? Nearly as long as some of us have been gaming. I'll probably be saying the same about Overwatch and Fortnite in a decade. I don't think most customers keep up with or care about the companies that put things out. They just see a product that appeals to them, or always has appealed to them, and they buy it.
All you can do is support the games and companies you enjoy, and hope for the best.
All you can do is support the games and companies you enjoy, and hope for the best.
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down 2 orth
Member
The only truly too big to fail company on that list is Tencent.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
It's over.
Gaming has changed so much that it's almost unreal. The change since the launch of the 360 and the classic 'hardcore' vs 'casual' gamers seems like a lifetime ago and even that was a huge change from the golden eras of gaming.
Gaming is now a fashion accessory and way of life for the normies, npcs, etc.
Hobbiest gamers have been left behind and our only hope of reliving some of the glory years is through VR. The industry won't crash and it won't change for the better.
Gaming has changed so much that it's almost unreal. The change since the launch of the 360 and the classic 'hardcore' vs 'casual' gamers seems like a lifetime ago and even that was a huge change from the golden eras of gaming.
Gaming is now a fashion accessory and way of life for the normies, npcs, etc.
Hobbiest gamers have been left behind and our only hope of reliving some of the glory years is through VR. The industry won't crash and it won't change for the better.
Mass Shift
Member
Look I loved the system and I have some great memories but even I can admit that 3DO failed. Spread over 3 separate manufacturers and sold under 2 million units by the time Hawkins sold the tech and the platform brand away. That's a commercial failure. If I had to list my favs they would go like this -
Road Rash (best version at the time)
The Horde
Street Fighter Turbo
Wing Commander 3
Way of the Warrior
Madden
Dragon's Lair
Games that I thought were going to be good but turned out to be towers of disappointment -
Shock Wave
Jurassic Park
Star Control
Rise of Robots
Microcosm
The rest of it was a drowning of FMV games and ports that were already pre-releases and absolutely NOTHING was arriving with any consistency. The droughts in between worthwhile releases was terrible.
And a standard controller that was very painful to use. It wasn't until SF Turbo was released did we finally get a decent controller made for it. My Father had purchased a Flightstick controller for my birthday for Wing Commander. Honestly, that's about as good as things got.
My personal fondness with 3DO was teaching my father how to play Madden. It was about the only thing he could play.
levyjl1988
Banned
People with a business mentality come in to games without any sense of creativity and muck things up. Politics is already doing this to health. I can’t wait until some politician is looking for surgery but because of budget cuts he only doomed himself. Like video games and the whole loot box banning with now law regulations being involved.
I hate capitalism and I hate business people.
Whenever you see someone in a business suit meeting an old couple to finance their mortgage. You can see a power dynamic.
The sense of whoever is in control. The way they dress and articulate.
I wish the dynamics of this world focused on creativity that what it is now.
I hate capitalism and I hate business people.
Whenever you see someone in a business suit meeting an old couple to finance their mortgage. You can see a power dynamic.
The sense of whoever is in control. The way they dress and articulate.
I wish the dynamics of this world focused on creativity that what it is now.
Petrae
Member
Once video games got big, and shareholders took to the industry like a new kind of gold rush, changes for the worse were inevitable. Investors don’t care about what makes video games good or fun to play— they care about how much money can be made from them.
The internet was the key to unlocking limitless earning potential, and why I will always cite internet connectivity as one of the factors that forever changed video games for the worse. The initial ideas behind connectivity were innocent enough (online play), but with seemingly innocuous horse armor came a trend that would eventually accelerate and dominate the industry— the nickel-and-diming of consumers. Things would only get worse from there.
It’s also fair to argue that game design and creation changed to attract the new masses instead of the dedicated fanbase that had always been there. That dedicated fanbase simply wasn’t enough in terms of potential revenue; publishers needed games that appealed to a wider audience, and that meant a lot of copycatting (like the first-person shooter gold rush after Call of Duty got huge).
Whatever the reasons, the video game industry is now flush with an inordinate amount of annual revenue and there’s no “crash” that’s ever coming to shake things up and maybe shift things back to more preferable times. You’ve either got to get used to the way things are and (even begrudgingly) accept them, or just walk away and focus on different entertainment or perhaps older games and consoles.
lukilladog
Member
I wonder why market competition warriors wanna give money to them through the Epic store
Market cap in billions:
Tencent 400.48B
Activision 41.45B
Electronic Arts 28.47B
Take Two 13.19B
Ubisoft 7.087B
CuteFaceJay
Member
They will get to a point where too many fails will impact them I'm sure.
Didn't Enron lose something like 80bilin 1 day? Maybe you'll need to follow the money & investors for EA and Ubi and see who keeps pumping money into so many failed games they seem to keep pumping out.
Like is it some kind of money laundering type thing or what?
Didn't Enron lose something like 80bilin 1 day? Maybe you'll need to follow the money & investors for EA and Ubi and see who keeps pumping money into so many failed games they seem to keep pumping out.
Like is it some kind of money laundering type thing or what?
Jubenhimer
Member
Capitalism on a leash isn't bad at all. Sure like anything, too much of it or without limitations is dangerous (See Idiocracy). But set some stern ground rules to keep it in check and it's the best system available for encouraging competition and creativity. Besides, the only other alternative is Socialism which discourages creativity in practice.
Gamers don't want to admit that at the end of the day, video games at a business, and the people running these publishers want returns on investment. Of course, you get a lot of douchebags in suits who never played or made a game in their life making BS decisions. But you also got some genuinely cool and conpetent executives who are just trying to encourage the creative people to make the best product possible. Besides, we all know what happens when creators get left without a good babysitter (George Lucas, Yoshio Sakamoto, and more recently Hideo Kojima). I'm all for creative freedom, but you also need to pay rent. A well run gaming company should have a healthy balance of creativity and bean counting. Having too much of either is dangerous.
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m.i.s.
Banned
With the exception of Sony [who know their market well] industry desperately needs a new entrant imo [or re-entrant].
I remember when NES and SMS [and Megadrive in it's early launch days] were popular and NEC's PC Engine just burst onto the scene and shook it all up with it's hu-cards [software on a credit card] and minuscule but stylish hardware casing featuring powerful technology and a 16-bit graphics chip. Much of the software was developed by HudsonSoft and NEC and many observers stated, because of this, the system probably had the best ratio of crap to good games on any system ever.
Anyway, now that Sony and Nintendo are effectively one system companies and the number of systems have reduced from five to three, I'd like Sega to re-enter the hardware race [starting with modest, profitable tech to start with].
Instead of having so much content on Nintendo platforms [Sega Ages and VC titles for a start and titles like Virtua Racing] and headline IP like, Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally, Sega Sports and tons of others, have it on Sega's own platform instead. Sega literally have several dozen IP's that would benefit from greater exposure on their own platform.
I remember when NES and SMS [and Megadrive in it's early launch days] were popular and NEC's PC Engine just burst onto the scene and shook it all up with it's hu-cards [software on a credit card] and minuscule but stylish hardware casing featuring powerful technology and a 16-bit graphics chip. Much of the software was developed by HudsonSoft and NEC and many observers stated, because of this, the system probably had the best ratio of crap to good games on any system ever.
Anyway, now that Sony and Nintendo are effectively one system companies and the number of systems have reduced from five to three, I'd like Sega to re-enter the hardware race [starting with modest, profitable tech to start with].
Instead of having so much content on Nintendo platforms [Sega Ages and VC titles for a start and titles like Virtua Racing] and headline IP like, Virtua Fighter, Sega Rally, Sega Sports and tons of others, have it on Sega's own platform instead. Sega literally have several dozen IP's that would benefit from greater exposure on their own platform.
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Freedom Gate Co.
Banned
You are arguing something that's long been debunked when it comes to the console crash. Look at your picture and think logically, the Arcadia was not originally released in the US and died a few months after it did and it was a limited release that no one knew about. It wasn't even a major release covered by the media and few stores sold it.
The Astrocade was mail-order and limited. You weren't seeing Astrocades with tons of games on store shelves.
The Magnavox Odyssey2 was already a dead system in the US that had become a niche product if that by late 1982. Most retailers didn't even carry it at that time.
The Sears telegames 2600 was an Atari 2600 not a new console, authorized by Atari to sell in Sears stores to benefit Sears. It is not a new console, and it's sales were included in the 2600 tally.
You have the intellivision on there twice, that's like saying the PS4 and the PS4 slim are two different consoles. The Intelliviion 2 is just an Intellivision that's redesigned.
Fairchild Channel F was already dead way before this time, and the Fairchild 2 which was a redesigned channel F was already out of the market.
The Coleco Gemini was a limited release that only few stores carried while the add-on for the Colecovision ended up being the way most people played 2600 games.
The Vectrex had limited production and released as the Crash was starting up, but never had a chance anyway since they were betting the novelty would impress people to pay for it so they could produce more units. Very few people knew what the console was, so there's no reason to believe that it was crowding issues with retailers nationwide, since almost no one had it.
There are no articles or interviews from back then with anyone saying anything about their being 12 consoles on the market. The major players at retail were the ColecoVision, the Intellivision, and the 2600 since the 5200 failed in Ataris eyes and they were quickly working on its replacement. The 7800, and no the 7800 did not release because of the NES, it actually released nationwide before the NES. I'm assuming that this is what you believe based on your bad history sources so far.
Yes retailers had concerns about those 3 consoles having large catalogs of software taking up retail space, but not hardware. That was always a myth spread around by nutjobs. Just like Pacman and ET being considered major causes retrospectively even though Pacman kept selling millions on the 2600 for years, and ET was only an overshipment and wasn't the first game to have that problem, it's more confirmed than ever now that they dug up the landfill and found several overshipped titles in it.
This is what happens when your history sources are unreliable.
Btw, your 3DO post is a dodge, for one the 3DO sold over 2 million while 3DO was selling to Samsung, but I never said it wasn't a failure nor was that in the quote you responded to. You're claim was that the 3DO had no third party support, your wrong plain and simple, almost all it's hundreds of games were third party, 3DO, Panasoic, and Goldstar only produced a handful of first party games. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about.
You also made additional false claims like game droughts and many games being FMV, do you want me to send you the spread sheet of games released for the 3DO or do you actually want to do some research instead of speaking random bullshit that's not true? Or betteryet I can post it here. This isn't 2002 anymore we actually have information on the internet to make you less ignorant, all you have to do is try.
Several of those are last gen games. That's the issue you aren't getting, most of the new indies aren't on consoles, this is an objective fact, game lists are publicly available for comparisons, and if you're to stupid to take 3 minutes to just look at the lists that's your problem. Stop being stubborn, you're wrong.
diffusionx
Gold Member
If anything those indies were big on 360 because there wasn't many of them. MS engaged in very heavy curation/promotion/publishing and put titles like Braid, Super Meat Boy, Limbo, Bastion, Fez, etc. front and center where they had tons of hype. Over time they loosened the reins and opened the process, and of course with more supply, everybody has to fight more to get noticed.
I would guess there are *far* more indies on PS4 and One than there were on 360/PS3. If you asked me I couldn't name 5 of those ID@Xbox titles and I don't know how much any of them sell.
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