We said original Super Mario Bros 2 was too hard for you, we weren't joking.

jetsetfluken

Member
Aug 27, 2009
3,306
0
0
Your friends couldn't get through 1-1 on SMB2 JP?

I guess everyone was right about games getting easier and easier these days...
 

Rich!

Member
Dec 16, 2009
29,978
2
0
When I was younger, I completed lost levels/SMB2j on All Stars numerous times, without any trouble. I even managed to finish the famicom one without any saves! But now? No fucking way.

My epic skills are long gone, unfortunately.
 

Link Man

Banned
Apr 2, 2007
13,213
0
0
It may have been incredibly tough, but it still had some rather creative ideas. I remember laughing the first time I warped backwards.
 

jetsetfluken

Member
Aug 27, 2009
3,306
0
0
How much harder is the NES version as opposed to the SNES Lost Levels remake, besides save functionality?

I and many others didn't have THAT much trouble with the SNES version...I did play a few worlds of the NES version and the more stiff controls make it tougher I guess.
 

DonMigs85

Member
Sep 3, 2009
26,769
2
850
34
Philippines
richisawesome said:
When I was younger, I completed lost levels/SMB2j on All Stars numerous times, without any trouble. I even managed to finish the famicom one without any saves! But now? No fucking way.

My epic skills are long gone, unfortunately.
Same. My mad skillz are not nearly as sharp as they used to be. :(
I could beat Star Fox 64's hard path and the final bosses of the Donkey Kong Country games pretty easily back in the day, but not anymore... But at least I still have my F-Zero GX skills.
 
Aug 14, 2006
11,638
0
0
It's not that hard really, but yeah it's definitely designed for people who've already beaten the first game.

I love the backwards warp zones as well, so deliciously cruel yet so funny :lol
 

Rich!

Member
Dec 16, 2009
29,978
2
0
Link Man said:
It may have been incredibly tough, but it still had some rather creative ideas. I remember laughing the first time I warped backwards.
Laughing? I was ready to throw my controller out the window the last time it happened. :lol
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
16,849
0
1,040
Atlanta, GA, USA
These sorts of threads always grind my gears. Super Mario Bros 2 is my favorite platformer of all time, by far. It's a lock in my top 5 favorites games of all time, period. My favorite types of video games are those which present a limited but fun skillset to utilize, and stage/obstacle design that challenges the player to master said skillset. SMB2 is that video game to the very letter, as it takes everything that its fantastic predecessor pioneered and cranks it up to 11. While I enjoy almost every major 2D Mario for their own unique qualities, I far prefer the "do it right or die" style of the first two games over the emphasis on exploration in later entries of the series. (As an aside, that also plays a big part in my feeling that NSMBW is a fantastic return to form: no broken flight items, lots of varied power-ups but with stage design that is sensible enough to encourage you to master specific abilities for specific stages, etc.)

I remember when it became common knowledge that Americans were cheated out of the "real" Super Mario Bros 2, and the American substitute version was subsequently derided as a lame impostor for a while (without these people ever stopping to consider that said game was actually pretty competent in its own right). It seems like today almost the exact opposite is the case, with all sorts of hyperbole thrown at this particular game. It's called the most difficult or the most unfair NES platformer by people who either do not remember what truly unfair NES games were really like or are far too young to have even known so in the first place. SMB2 does not have shitty controls, or shitty physics, or shitty collision detection, or ridiculous boss design, or limited continues, and so on.

I get the impression that people have the intricacies of the original Super Mario Bros so ingrained in their heads that they are unwilling to take the same steps they took with the original to master SMB2. A review I read of SMB2 probably says this best:

The key to excelling at Super Mario Bros.—I have no idea how to excel at the Real Super Mario Bros. 2—is to learn the game's territory, to become so deeply familiar with it that you don't even have to think about what you're doing.
You excel at SMB2 in exactly the same way. SMB2 is all about testing and subverting your knowledge of the original game, and it assumes that you are indeed knowledgeable about it.

Example: SMB2 hands out 1UPs like candy, even without the koopa shell on the stairs trick, but you have to actually EARN them. In SMB1, there were some stages where you could kick a koopa shell into several more enemies, eventually hitting enough of them to earn a 1UP or two. Furthermore, some of these areas would have a Star powerup right before this. That meant that if you got the Star, you'd be invincible to these enemies, but you couldn't kick the shell into them to get the 1UP. In SMB2, this sort of situation crops up all the time, to the point where the moment you see a Star your first thought should be "Okay, what's coming up that I could possibly miss by grabbing this item?" In earlier stages, you'd only be missing out on 1UP chances like those described above. In later stages, you may be missing out on bonus areas that would have required the use of a mid-air koopa bounce to reach, and in the very last stages you may be unable to complete the required jumps themselves. Furthermore, several stages have this sort of 1UP opportunity in them, and it's usually obvious. Hell, I know that at least one of the most devilish castle stages has one of the easiest opportunities for this kind of 1UP, to the point where "bu-bu-but continuing sends me back 3 stages!" should not even once be a concern in said stages.

Then there's the whole "flagpole magic number" trick, which means that if you can feel out the stages well enough to know when the end is coming up soon, you should get a 1UP almost every time you touch the flag. And then there's the fact that a lot of the castle stages have secret power-up blocks to give you that crutch if you really need it. Fuck, 8-4 has TWO of them. You can start the stage small and build your way up to Fire Mario by the time you reach Bowser. Compare that to world 8-4 of the first game, where if you had cleared the previous stage while small then you've got that horrible Hammer Bro -> Podobo -> Bowser gauntlet at the end to deal with. SMB2 is a tougher game for sure, but it gives you the tools you need.

Probably the only design choice that I would say is outright stupid are the backward warp zones. It's dumb because the moment you find one of these, you will almost instantly be discouraged from any and all exploring in further stages out of fear that there's a trap around every corner, which is bad because you really don't want to miss out on secret power-ups or bonus coin rooms and whatnot. Fortunately, I believe only two stages have such backward warps (3-1 and 8-1), so you can explore the rest of the game without worry.

This game is generally challenging in all of the right ways, and I enjoy it so much that I completed a non-TAS no-death 100% run last winter.

Tain said:
i'm predicting the future:
Tain in the future said:
Just finished SMB2J. This is probably the best Mario game.
But, we'll see.
I bet you'd like it.

perfectchaos007 said:
it's either level C-3 or D-3 and in one of those levels there's a glitch where one of the spring boards doesn't pop up so you have to kill the flying blooper at just the right time or else the spring board doesn't appear and you can't advance and have to jump off and die
Hahaha, yeah. This glitch manifests itself in different ways in both level C-3 and either D-2 or D-3 (can't remember which). It's a total bitch until you figure out why that keeps happening. When I was going for my no death run, I kept fucking up on one of those stages for so long before I realized what was up.

The amazing thing is that, in the level in World D in which this glitch can show up, there's a pipe right at the problem area that will take you backward in the level and allow you another shot at a power up. Which means you always have a shot at getting a Fire Flower to dispose of these problem enemies and prevent the glitch from occurring, even if you start the stage small or get hit in the middle of it. That almost makes me wonder if this behavior was intentional.

jetsetfluken said:
How much harder is the NES version as opposed to the SNES Lost Levels remake, besides save functionality?
There isn't any substantial difference. I would say that the NES version is more consistent and sensible in places, though. Probably the best example is World 8-3. People who played the SNES version first were no doubt aggravated at the sheer number of invisible Poison Mushroom blocks that seemed to have been dispersed randomly throughout the first half of the level for no other reason than to fuck up your jump and send you bouncing right into a Spiny you were trying to avoid. In the NES version, these "invisible blocks" are merely camouflaged into brick wall backgrounds, and their placement is mostly consistent; you will almost always find one at the far ends of the walls, with only a few placed in regular intervals after those. You can spot them beforehand if you're really observant, and they're solid even before you hit them, so you can use them to jump over or on top of Lakitu to keep him from becoming too much of a problem in that stage.
 

sphinx

the piano man
Nov 21, 2006
15,739
0
1,350
Germany
Sixfortyfive said:
Interesting Rant
On the other hand, I admit this game has no flaws (or barely any). It has evil design choices, which scares the hell out of people playing it for the first time, worse for me cause I am trying is as and adult.

and I will admit, the parts where I have been dying were hard because I didn't pay attention to the surroundings, most of the time there is a "safe way" to get past an obstacle.

with this I mean, am not ready to give up and I will try and finish this game, even if just with warps. Maybe, if I take my time to learn 1up tricks, I may go for other worlds I haven't visited.

at the end, It was a bit too much. Nintendo admited it themselves and regardless of how much you and others managed to master the levels, it was a bit unnecessary. It takes the joy out of it to some extent.
 

HappyBivouac

Member
Jan 31, 2008
6,189
0
0
Ningbo, China
soundcloud.com
This game owns. How dare people call it the weakest entry in the main series. :( Seriously, what is bad about the game? The fact that it tries to be difficult?

That said, I've only beaten the SMB deluxe version, which is superior to the all-stars version (all-stars version was made easier by several orders of magnitude) but still allows game saves. It's very challenging and fulfilling. But then not everyone likes games that they have to fail at 100 times before succeeding. I do. :lol
 

BishopLamont

Banned
Apr 22, 2007
7,423
0
0
jetsetfluken said:
Your friends couldn't get through 1-1 on SMB2 JP?

I guess everyone was right about games getting easier and easier these days...
I know someone who thinks generic platformer X is better than Mario games. *facepalm*
 

Ranger X

Member
Jun 10, 2004
34,867
1
0
www.backloggery.com
What in the hell? It's not the hardest side scroller, not even near.

Super C
All megamans (with blaster)
Castlevania Dracula's Curse
Journey To Sirius
Kid Niki

and so many others. The Lost Levels is in the hardest games in the "still fun" category but there's so many other side scroller harder than this, we could probably name hundreds.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
16,849
0
1,040
Atlanta, GA, USA
I just remembered one more aspect in which SMB2 is more user-friendly than SMB1. In some (most?) parts of SMB1's castle maze stages, where you repeat the same section of the level over again until you find the right pathway, there is absolutely no way to discern the exact point where you picked the wrong junction. You have to trial-and-error your way through several choices at once before you know if you did everything right. In SMB2, I believe there is always some kind of visual clue to let you know when you fucked up. For example, if you see a Podobo or a fire wheel or Piranha Plant immediately vanish from the screen at any point, then that means the last couple of steps you took were along the wrong pathway, so you know exactly what you need to do different next time.

Though I also remembered another thing I never cared about: Why the hell do you have to beat the game 8 times to get to the lettered worlds? I mean, the game's good enough to be worth replaying and all, but what kind of logic is behind that?

HappyBivouac said:
That said, I've only beaten the SMB deluxe version, which is superior to the all-stars version
On that note: A lot of people seem to rag on the SMB DX version for making this game "easier," mostly on account of several mid-air koopa jumps being shortened. But that wasn't really the case. The DX version uses SMB1's physics, and if you've actually played the original SMB2 then you should have noticed that a lot of its jumps would be literally impossible with SMB1's physics. You can get a high bounce off of the enemies you jump on in SMB2; you can't in SMB1. So, the stages had to be altered in order to be manageable in the DX version. /themoreyouknow

I don't know if I could go back to SMB DX now. The extra features were awesome, but the screen resolution sucked pretty hard.
 

sphinx

the piano man
Nov 21, 2006
15,739
0
1,350
Germany
Ranger X said:
What in the hell? It's not the hardest side scroller, not even near.

Super C
All megamans (with blaster)
Castlevania Dracula's Curse
Journey To Sirius
Kid Niki


and so many others. The Lost Levels is in the hardest games in the "still fun" category but there's so many other side scroller harder than this, we could probably name hundreds.

what ?! Castlevania dracula's curse harder than this? man, I couln't disagree more. that game is a walk in the park compared to SMB2.

my problem with SMB2 is just who mario moves, it slides way too much when you land after you run+jump, platforms are small, they fall down, are hard to reach, etc.

Megaman and Super C, yeah, may be.

Still, using only the blaster in MM games is your choice as there are multiple weapons that aid your adventure and Super C mmhh.. doesn't it work with the konami code?
 

Harpuia

Member
May 13, 2009
1,938
0
0
My soul was shattered when I was in world 3 and I got sent back to world 1 via warp zone. :(
 

shuri

Banned
Jun 8, 2004
19,324
0
0
sphinx said:
how come there are some many of you that played it when you were little boys? are you all japanese or you mean the all-stars version?

this thread is obviously NOT about the All-stars version, you can save there which makes everything different.

Did you all import the game as kids? what gives?
lots of rental places had japanese version of games with adaptors back in the days.
 

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
Nov 9, 2009
5,808
1
610
www.twitch.tv
Sixfortyfive said:
great post
So what you're saying is that I should go get Mario 1 and 2 on the VC right now?

Ranger X said:
What in the hell? It's not the hardest side scroller, not even near.

All megamans (with blaster)
Mario is significantly harder than the older Mega Man games. No NES Mega Man comes close to SMB3, and I've beaten the Mega Man games a lot of times.
 
Apr 3, 2007
39,591
1
0
AniHawk said:
I managed to beat it when I was 14, but I can't do it ten years later.
You wouldn't believe how many games this is true with, for me at least. I remembered beating FFVII easily with my team, replayed it a year or two ago and got my ass handed to me by the final boss, makes me wonder what happened to my playing skills compared to when I was younger. :(
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Dec 19, 2006
16,849
0
1,040
Atlanta, GA, USA
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
You wouldn't believe how many games this is true with, for me at least. I remembered beating FFVII easily with my team, replayed it a year or two ago and got my ass handed to me by the final boss, makes me wonder what happened to my playing skills compared to when I was younger. :(
I feel the opposite way. I'm way better at video games now than I was when I was 10 or so.
 

Mr Sandman

Banned
Jan 11, 2010
1,356
0
0
US
I always knew this game was much harder than the original, but I didn't know people thought it was that hard till the rise of the internests. I remember beating the All Stars version multiple times as a kid. I know that's not the same thing due to saving though. They pull some nasty shit on you towards the end. :\
 

Ranger X

Member
Jun 10, 2004
34,867
1
0
www.backloggery.com
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
Mario is significantly harder than the older Mega Man games. No NES Mega Man comes close to SMB3, and I've beaten the Mega Man games a lot of times.
Well, I guess we don't find the same things as hard. I finished Megaman the first but I found it harder than The Lost Levels. And Super Mario Bros 3 ????? I thought this game was a cakewalk...
Maybe I am good at Mario but seriously, SMB2 isn't even close to be the hardest side scroller.
 
Aug 14, 2006
11,638
0
0
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
So what you're saying is that I should go get Mario 1 and 2 on the VC right now?



Mario is significantly harder than the older Mega Man games. No NES Mega Man comes close to SMB3, and I've beaten the Mega Man games a lot of times.
No way, this is very wrong. The NES Mega Mans are WAY harder than any of the SMB games (yes even Lost Levels)
 

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
Nov 9, 2009
5,808
1
610
www.twitch.tv
Nuclear Muffin said:
No way, this is very wrong. The NES Mega Mans are WAY harder than any of the SMB games (yes even Lost Levels)
That's just insanity. Mario games (well, not 1 or USA) are much more brutal and unforgiving than the Mega Man games. The Mega Man games are really lenient in comparison.

There is nothing in any NES Mega Man that even comes close to world 8 from SMB1.
 
Apr 3, 2009
10,801
2
0
Nuclear Muffin said:
No way, this is very wrong. The NES Mega Mans are WAY harder than any of the SMB games (yes even Lost Levels)
If you don't use warps the Mario games are harder. SMB1 becomes a bitch if you lose the fire power in Stage 8-3 or 8-4.
 

Manmademan

Member
Nov 3, 2006
30,709
0
945
sphinx said:
/Miyamoto & Co.


What... The... Fuck..

Original Super Mario bros 2, Aka Lost levels is the hardest platformer I have played in my whole life and it has got to be the hardest 2d scrolling game in the history of videogames.
.
It's not that difficult. It's harder than SMB1, but this may surprise you OP:

a TON of NES era sidescrollers were just as bad or worse. Games have gotten a lot easier since then.

As has been mentioned, games like Ghosts N Goblins, Mega Man 1, Ninja Gaiden, Fester's Quest, The Adventures of Bayou Billy, Abadox, and Solomon's key were all brutally, spectacularly unfair and that was pretty much par for the course. Dying a billion times until you learned the patterns is just the way it worked back then.

Lots of them didn't even bother to put in any kind of save or resume system, so you had to beat it all in one shot.

edit: This thread made me remember just how ballbusting Solomon's key actually WAS.

from wiki:
Solomon's Key is generally recognized as one of the most difficult games to appear on the NES. The player must overcome unlimited enemy spawning, challenging level designs, a countdown timer, Dana's fragility, and limited ways to dispatch enemies. In addition, it's easy for players to unintentionally make levels impossible to clear while playing them. There is no saving, so if you lose all of your lives at level 49, you get to start all over.
Yeah, no way in hell that game would get released today. Go play this for a few days, see how far you get, then come back and see if you still say the same thing about SMB2
 

Lindsay

Dot Hacked
Jul 21, 2004
7,840
0
0
Mineral Town
If ya beat the first SMBs hard mode before moving on to this it makes the difficulty curve alil less bad. My only real complaint with the game is that the music is the same a SMBs! Then again considering how bad Mario 3's music was maybe it was for the best.

sphinx said:
.- Jumps that are impossible without the aid of Koopas, Goombas, whatever.
When put that way I now realized Mario had enemy bridges well before Sonic ever did o_O
 

Zek

Contempt For Challenge
Aug 11, 2007
1,488
0
0
It's not really that hard a game by the standards of many NES platformers since it has permanent continues. But yes the difficulty is still pretty unfair and the level design is not particularly good. It really is like a ROM hack that's designed purely to have bullshit difficulty.
 
gblues said:
Perverse? Hah! Hard as nails, but not perverse. No, that honor goes to Syobon Action. It's been ported to the HBC so you can even play it on your Wii if you want.

After that, Mario 2 Japan will seem like sanity.
Wikipedia said:
Syobon action しょぼんのアクション (also known as Cat Mario and Neko Mario) is a 2D Japanese freeware video game notoriously known on the Internet for its extremely difficult levels.
Levels? Like plural? o_o Even if I'd reach the end of the first stage I wouldn't survive to the beginning of the second.
 

Link1110

Member
Jan 20, 2005
7,396
66
1,380
This game is too hard. I remember being super excited for All Stars to come out, finally playing this lost game, and promptly putting it aside in favor of the actual good games in that collection.

A similar process would repeat itself the first time I played a fire emblem game.
 

TreIII

Member
May 15, 2006
17,478
0
0
35
I beat the GBC deluxe version years ago, but I knew that was the "neutered" version. I'm gonna have to give the original port a shot...
 

sphinx

the piano man
Nov 21, 2006
15,739
0
1,350
Germany
So, I tried today world 8 again and managed to go farther in 8-4 but still, it's hard to get just there.

Once I get past 8-1, I'll usually make it through til the last level and die there.

So, does anyone know how do I get the 2nd power-up in 8-1 that is in a block in a ledge high above when you first encounter a Hammer bro? It is a bit to high to reach and I'd like to be able to get a flower from there. Is it possible?

Thanks.
 

Tenkei

Member
Jun 8, 2004
305
1
0
I played through the All-Stars version when I was younger, and I was sure that the game was impossible to beat as Mario, but I wasn't convinced that Nintendo would deliberately make the game unwinnable with him. Once I cleared D-4 with Luigi, I decided to try again as Mario. Some jumps that I thought were impossible were made easier when I found hidden blocks for momentum assistance, and when I discovered World 9 (after 100 or so deaths), I felt as if the game was rewarding me for being so awesome. =P

I found out later that World 9 unlocked because I progressed from 1 to 8 without warping, but that didn't stop me from patting myself on the back. It's a shame that I lost interest in clearing A to D as Mario after I received Secret of Mana and promptly forgot about the game. =(
 

_Alkaline_

Member
Sep 25, 2006
13,032
0
0
Australia
Manmademan said:
It's not that difficult. It's harder than SMB1, but this may surprise you OP:

a TON of NES era sidescrollers were just as bad or worse. Games have gotten a lot easier since then.

As has been mentioned, games like Ghosts N Goblins, Mega Man 1, Ninja Gaiden, Fester's Quest, The Adventures of Bayou Billy, Abadox, and Solomon's key were all brutally, spectacularly unfair and that was pretty much par for the course. Dying a billion times until you learned the patterns is just the way it worked back then.

Lots of them didn't even bother to put in any kind of save or resume system, so you had to beat it all in one shot.

edit: This thread made me remember just how ballbusting Solomon's key actually WAS.

from wiki:

Yeah, no way in hell that game would get released today. Go play this for a few days, see how far you get, then come back and see if you still say the same thing about SMB2
The thing about Solomon's Key is that it goes from testing your problem-solving abilities to testing your problem-solving abilities AND your reflexes. The second half of the game, particularly the last twenty stages, are very difficult since you not only have to figure out the stage's puzzle, but you have to contend with enemies (respawning enemies included) that come at you hard and fast. And you have a timer. And limited lives. And one-hit kills.

I like the game because there's barely anything like it and it really tests your intelligence, but it is an absolute slut towards the end.

As for SMB2, it's a very tough game, but I can think of numerous NES games that are harder (sometimes significantly so). Ghosts n Goblins. Battletoads. Ninja Gaiden. Silver Surfer. Castlevania. Blaster Master. I dunno if I would put Mega Man here, it's a tough game (particularly in comparison to latter games in the classic series) but I think it's a bit more managable than SMB2.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Jul 17, 2006
11,518
0
0
Denver, CO
I'd say it was hard for a nintendo developed game, but pretty much normal for NES era games. I really enjoyed beating it when i got it off the vc and I haven't really played any games pre N64 until the VC happened. It really helps that it has a continue option and the VC has a temporary save state to allow you to take your time. I found the later levels of Ninja Gaiden way more difficult then anything in Mario Lost Levels.

I think what might have made it easier for me was I finished the originial a few months before playing it and I like to explore pretty much every pipe block and even empty air possible looking for secrets. I'm a little surprised people are getting so discouraged by the backwards warp zone. Can't you just do something else while you wait for the time to run out, restarting the level?
 

epmode

Member
Jun 7, 2004
28,470
0
0
Dai101 said:
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/top-10-screwattack/704480

Anyone wants to take the Battletoads challenge?
I beat Battletoads several times without cheats so it can't be the hardest. It's VERY DIFFICULT (and I'm not talking about the Turbo Tunnels) but I guess I just had a lot of time. It helped that Battletoads was one of the best looking games on the system.

And if we're just sticking with that list, I never even got close to finishing Ghosts and Goblins.
 

mr_nothin

Banned
Sep 1, 2005
11,126
0
0
32
Georgia, USA
This thread reminded me of something. I have never beat SMB 1 or 3 without using warpzones. I haven't even seen most of SMB1's levels :lol

I just thought about it and I've ALWAYS used the warpzone.