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We said original Super Mario Bros 2 was too hard for you, we weren't joking.
- Thread starter sphinx
- Start date
jetsetfluken
Member
Your friends couldn't get through 1-1 on SMB2 JP?
I guess everyone was right about games getting easier and easier these days...
I guess everyone was right about games getting easier and easier these days...
jetsetfluken
Member
How much harder is the NES version as opposed to the SNES Lost Levels remake, besides save functionality?
I and many others didn't have THAT much trouble with the SNES version...I did play a few worlds of the NES version and the more stiff controls make it tougher I guess.
I and many others didn't have THAT much trouble with the SNES version...I did play a few worlds of the NES version and the more stiff controls make it tougher I guess.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
It's not that hard really, but yeah it's definitely designed for people who've already beaten the first game.
I love the backwards warp zones as well, so deliciously cruel yet so funny :lol
I love the backwards warp zones as well, so deliciously cruel yet so funny :lol
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
These sorts of threads always grind my gears. Super Mario Bros 2 is my favorite platformer of all time, by far. It's a lock in my top 5 favorites games of all time, period. My favorite types of video games are those which present a limited but fun skillset to utilize, and stage/obstacle design that challenges the player to master said skillset. SMB2 is that video game to the very letter, as it takes everything that its fantastic predecessor pioneered and cranks it up to 11. While I enjoy almost every major 2D Mario for their own unique qualities, I far prefer the "do it right or die" style of the first two games over the emphasis on exploration in later entries of the series. (As an aside, that also plays a big part in my feeling that NSMBW is a fantastic return to form: no broken flight items, lots of varied power-ups but with stage design that is sensible enough to encourage you to master specific abilities for specific stages, etc.)
I remember when it became common knowledge that Americans were cheated out of the "real" Super Mario Bros 2, and the American substitute version was subsequently derided as a lame impostor for a while (without these people ever stopping to consider that said game was actually pretty competent in its own right). It seems like today almost the exact opposite is the case, with all sorts of hyperbole thrown at this particular game. It's called the most difficult or the most unfair NES platformer by people who either do not remember what truly unfair NES games were really like or are far too young to have even known so in the first place. SMB2 does not have shitty controls, or shitty physics, or shitty collision detection, or ridiculous boss design, or limited continues, and so on.
I get the impression that people have the intricacies of the original Super Mario Bros so ingrained in their heads that they are unwilling to take the same steps they took with the original to master SMB2. A review I read of SMB2 probably says this best:
Example: SMB2 hands out 1UPs like candy, even without the koopa shell on the stairs trick, but you have to actually EARN them. In SMB1, there were some stages where you could kick a koopa shell into several more enemies, eventually hitting enough of them to earn a 1UP or two. Furthermore, some of these areas would have a Star powerup right before this. That meant that if you got the Star, you'd be invincible to these enemies, but you couldn't kick the shell into them to get the 1UP. In SMB2, this sort of situation crops up all the time, to the point where the moment you see a Star your first thought should be "Okay, what's coming up that I could possibly miss by grabbing this item?" In earlier stages, you'd only be missing out on 1UP chances like those described above. In later stages, you may be missing out on bonus areas that would have required the use of a mid-air koopa bounce to reach, and in the very last stages you may be unable to complete the required jumps themselves. Furthermore, several stages have this sort of 1UP opportunity in them, and it's usually obvious. Hell, I know that at least one of the most devilish castle stages has one of the easiest opportunities for this kind of 1UP, to the point where "bu-bu-but continuing sends me back 3 stages!" should not even once be a concern in said stages.
Then there's the whole "flagpole magic number" trick, which means that if you can feel out the stages well enough to know when the end is coming up soon, you should get a 1UP almost every time you touch the flag. And then there's the fact that a lot of the castle stages have secret power-up blocks to give you that crutch if you really need it. Fuck, 8-4 has TWO of them. You can start the stage small and build your way up to Fire Mario by the time you reach Bowser. Compare that to world 8-4 of the first game, where if you had cleared the previous stage while small then you've got that horrible Hammer Bro -> Podobo -> Bowser gauntlet at the end to deal with. SMB2 is a tougher game for sure, but it gives you the tools you need.
Probably the only design choice that I would say is outright stupid are the backward warp zones. It's dumb because the moment you find one of these, you will almost instantly be discouraged from any and all exploring in further stages out of fear that there's a trap around every corner, which is bad because you really don't want to miss out on secret power-ups or bonus coin rooms and whatnot. Fortunately, I believe only two stages have such backward warps (3-1 and 8-1), so you can explore the rest of the game without worry.
This game is generally challenging in all of the right ways, and I enjoy it so much that I completed a non-TAS no-death 100% run last winter.
The amazing thing is that, in the level in World D in which this glitch can show up, there's a pipe right at the problem area that will take you backward in the level and allow you another shot at a power up. Which means you always have a shot at getting a Fire Flower to dispose of these problem enemies and prevent the glitch from occurring, even if you start the stage small or get hit in the middle of it. That almost makes me wonder if this behavior was intentional.
I remember when it became common knowledge that Americans were cheated out of the "real" Super Mario Bros 2, and the American substitute version was subsequently derided as a lame impostor for a while (without these people ever stopping to consider that said game was actually pretty competent in its own right). It seems like today almost the exact opposite is the case, with all sorts of hyperbole thrown at this particular game. It's called the most difficult or the most unfair NES platformer by people who either do not remember what truly unfair NES games were really like or are far too young to have even known so in the first place. SMB2 does not have shitty controls, or shitty physics, or shitty collision detection, or ridiculous boss design, or limited continues, and so on.
I get the impression that people have the intricacies of the original Super Mario Bros so ingrained in their heads that they are unwilling to take the same steps they took with the original to master SMB2. A review I read of SMB2 probably says this best:
You excel at SMB2 in exactly the same way. SMB2 is all about testing and subverting your knowledge of the original game, and it assumes that you are indeed knowledgeable about it.
Example: SMB2 hands out 1UPs like candy, even without the koopa shell on the stairs trick, but you have to actually EARN them. In SMB1, there were some stages where you could kick a koopa shell into several more enemies, eventually hitting enough of them to earn a 1UP or two. Furthermore, some of these areas would have a Star powerup right before this. That meant that if you got the Star, you'd be invincible to these enemies, but you couldn't kick the shell into them to get the 1UP. In SMB2, this sort of situation crops up all the time, to the point where the moment you see a Star your first thought should be "Okay, what's coming up that I could possibly miss by grabbing this item?" In earlier stages, you'd only be missing out on 1UP chances like those described above. In later stages, you may be missing out on bonus areas that would have required the use of a mid-air koopa bounce to reach, and in the very last stages you may be unable to complete the required jumps themselves. Furthermore, several stages have this sort of 1UP opportunity in them, and it's usually obvious. Hell, I know that at least one of the most devilish castle stages has one of the easiest opportunities for this kind of 1UP, to the point where "bu-bu-but continuing sends me back 3 stages!" should not even once be a concern in said stages.
Then there's the whole "flagpole magic number" trick, which means that if you can feel out the stages well enough to know when the end is coming up soon, you should get a 1UP almost every time you touch the flag. And then there's the fact that a lot of the castle stages have secret power-up blocks to give you that crutch if you really need it. Fuck, 8-4 has TWO of them. You can start the stage small and build your way up to Fire Mario by the time you reach Bowser. Compare that to world 8-4 of the first game, where if you had cleared the previous stage while small then you've got that horrible Hammer Bro -> Podobo -> Bowser gauntlet at the end to deal with. SMB2 is a tougher game for sure, but it gives you the tools you need.
Probably the only design choice that I would say is outright stupid are the backward warp zones. It's dumb because the moment you find one of these, you will almost instantly be discouraged from any and all exploring in further stages out of fear that there's a trap around every corner, which is bad because you really don't want to miss out on secret power-ups or bonus coin rooms and whatnot. Fortunately, I believe only two stages have such backward warps (3-1 and 8-1), so you can explore the rest of the game without worry.
This game is generally challenging in all of the right ways, and I enjoy it so much that I completed a non-TAS no-death 100% run last winter.
I bet you'd like it.Tain said:
Hahaha, yeah. This glitch manifests itself in different ways in both level C-3 and either D-2 or D-3 (can't remember which). It's a total bitch until you figure out why that keeps happening. When I was going for my no death run, I kept fucking up on one of those stages for so long before I realized what was up.perfectchaos007 said:
The amazing thing is that, in the level in World D in which this glitch can show up, there's a pipe right at the problem area that will take you backward in the level and allow you another shot at a power up. Which means you always have a shot at getting a Fire Flower to dispose of these problem enemies and prevent the glitch from occurring, even if you start the stage small or get hit in the middle of it. That almost makes me wonder if this behavior was intentional.
There isn't any substantial difference. I would say that the NES version is more consistent and sensible in places, though. Probably the best example is World 8-3. People who played the SNES version first were no doubt aggravated at the sheer number of invisible Poison Mushroom blocks that seemed to have been dispersed randomly throughout the first half of the level for no other reason than to fuck up your jump and send you bouncing right into a Spiny you were trying to avoid. In the NES version, these "invisible blocks" are merely camouflaged into brick wall backgrounds, and their placement is mostly consistent; you will almost always find one at the far ends of the walls, with only a few placed in regular intervals after those. You can spot them beforehand if you're really observant, and they're solid even before you hit them, so you can use them to jump over or on top of Lakitu to keep him from becoming too much of a problem in that stage.jetsetfluken said:
Sixfortyfive said:
On the other hand, I admit this game has no flaws (or barely any). It has evil design choices, which scares the hell out of people playing it for the first time, worse for me cause I am trying is as and adult.
and I will admit, the parts where I have been dying were hard because I didn't pay attention to the surroundings, most of the time there is a "safe way" to get past an obstacle.
with this I mean, am not ready to give up and I will try and finish this game, even if just with warps. Maybe, if I take my time to learn 1up tricks, I may go for other worlds I haven't visited.
at the end, It was a bit too much. Nintendo admited it themselves and regardless of how much you and others managed to master the levels, it was a bit unnecessary. It takes the joy out of it to some extent.
HappyBivouac
Member
This game owns. How dare people call it the weakest entry in the main series. 
Seriously, what is bad about the game? The fact that it tries to be difficult?
That said, I've only beaten the SMB deluxe version, which is superior to the all-stars version (all-stars version was made easier by several orders of magnitude) but still allows game saves. It's very challenging and fulfilling. But then not everyone likes games that they have to fail at 100 times before succeeding. I do. :lol
Seriously, what is bad about the game? The fact that it tries to be difficult?That said, I've only beaten the SMB deluxe version, which is superior to the all-stars version (all-stars version was made easier by several orders of magnitude) but still allows game saves. It's very challenging and fulfilling. But then not everyone likes games that they have to fail at 100 times before succeeding. I do. :lol
BishopLamont
Banned
I know someone who thinks generic platformer X is better than Mario games. *facepalm*jetsetfluken said:
Like the hat?
Banned
Too difficult for me. I'll probably never finish it. I don't play games to get frustrated.
What in the hell? It's not the hardest side scroller, not even near.
Super C
All megamans (with blaster)
Castlevania Dracula's Curse
Journey To Sirius
Kid Niki
and so many others. The Lost Levels is in the hardest games in the "still fun" category but there's so many other side scroller harder than this, we could probably name hundreds.
Super C
All megamans (with blaster)
Castlevania Dracula's Curse
Journey To Sirius
Kid Niki
and so many others. The Lost Levels is in the hardest games in the "still fun" category but there's so many other side scroller harder than this, we could probably name hundreds.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I just remembered one more aspect in which SMB2 is more user-friendly than SMB1. In some (most?) parts of SMB1's castle maze stages, where you repeat the same section of the level over again until you find the right pathway, there is absolutely no way to discern the exact point where you picked the wrong junction. You have to trial-and-error your way through several choices at once before you know if you did everything right. In SMB2, I believe there is always some kind of visual clue to let you know when you fucked up. For example, if you see a Podobo or a fire wheel or Piranha Plant immediately vanish from the screen at any point, then that means the last couple of steps you took were along the wrong pathway, so you know exactly what you need to do different next time.
Though I also remembered another thing I never cared about: Why the hell do you have to beat the game 8 times to get to the lettered worlds? I mean, the game's good enough to be worth replaying and all, but what kind of logic is behind that?
I don't know if I could go back to SMB DX now. The extra features were awesome, but the screen resolution sucked pretty hard.
Though I also remembered another thing I never cared about: Why the hell do you have to beat the game 8 times to get to the lettered worlds? I mean, the game's good enough to be worth replaying and all, but what kind of logic is behind that?
On that note: A lot of people seem to rag on the SMB DX version for making this game "easier," mostly on account of several mid-air koopa jumps being shortened. But that wasn't really the case. The DX version uses SMB1's physics, and if you've actually played the original SMB2 then you should have noticed that a lot of its jumps would be literally impossible with SMB1's physics. You can get a high bounce off of the enemies you jump on in SMB2; you can't in SMB1. So, the stages had to be altered in order to be manageable in the DX version. /themoreyouknowHappyBivouac said:
I don't know if I could go back to SMB DX now. The extra features were awesome, but the screen resolution sucked pretty hard.
Ranger X said:
what ?! Castlevania dracula's curse harder than this? man, I couln't disagree more. that game is a walk in the park compared to SMB2.
my problem with SMB2 is just who mario moves, it slides way too much when you land after you run+jump, platforms are small, they fall down, are hard to reach, etc.
Megaman and Super C, yeah, may be.
Still, using only the blaster in MM games is your choice as there are multiple weapons that aid your adventure and Super C mmhh.. doesn't it work with the konami code?
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Sixfortyfive said:
So what you're saying is that I should go get Mario 1 and 2 on the VC right now?
Ranger X said:
Mario is significantly harder than the older Mega Man games. No NES Mega Man comes close to SMB3, and I've beaten the Mega Man games a lot of times.
Prime Blue
Member
Gotta love that. :lol
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
AniHawk said:
You wouldn't believe how many games this is true with, for me at least. I remembered beating FFVII easily with my team, replayed it a year or two ago and got my ass handed to me by the final boss, makes me wonder what happened to my playing skills compared to when I was younger.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Relix said:
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I feel the opposite way. I'm way better at video games now than I was when I was 10 or so.Zaraki_Kenpachi said:You wouldn't believe how many games this is true with, for me at least. I remembered beating FFVII easily with my team, replayed it a year or two ago and got my ass handed to me by the final boss, makes me wonder what happened to my playing skills compared to when I was younger.
Mr Sandman
Banned
I always knew this game was much harder than the original, but I didn't know people thought it was that hard till the rise of the internests. I remember beating the All Stars version multiple times as a kid. I know that's not the same thing due to saving though. They pull some nasty shit on you towards the end. :\
BigJonsson
Member
Natetan said:
ROFL what was that
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
Well, I guess we don't find the same things as hard. I finished Megaman the first but I found it harder than The Lost Levels. And Super Mario Bros 3 ????? I thought this game was a cakewalk...
Maybe I am good at Mario but seriously, SMB2 isn't even close to be the hardest side scroller.
Naked Snake
Member
I have the GBC version, can't remember if I beat it or not.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Sir Ilpalazzo said:
No way, this is very wrong. The NES Mega Mans are WAY harder than any of the SMB games (yes even Lost Levels)
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Nuclear Muffin said:
That's just insanity. Mario games (well, not 1 or USA) are much more brutal and unforgiving than the Mega Man games. The Mega Man games are really lenient in comparison.
There is nothing in any NES Mega Man that even comes close to world 8 from SMB1.
To Far Away Times
Member
Nuclear Muffin said:
If you don't use warps the Mario games are harder. SMB1 becomes a bitch if you lose the fire power in Stage 8-3 or 8-4.
Manmademan
Member
sphinx said:
It's not that difficult. It's harder than SMB1, but this may surprise you OP:
a TON of NES era sidescrollers were just as bad or worse. Games have gotten a lot easier since then.
As has been mentioned, games like Ghosts N Goblins, Mega Man 1, Ninja Gaiden, Fester's Quest, The Adventures of Bayou Billy, Abadox, and Solomon's key were all brutally, spectacularly unfair and that was pretty much par for the course. Dying a billion times until you learned the patterns is just the way it worked back then.
Lots of them didn't even bother to put in any kind of save or resume system, so you had to beat it all in one shot.
edit: This thread made me remember just how ballbusting Solomon's key actually WAS.
from wiki:
Yeah, no way in hell that game would get released today. Go play this for a few days, see how far you get, then come back and see if you still say the same thing about SMB2
If ya beat the first SMBs hard mode before moving on to this it makes the difficulty curve alil less bad. My only real complaint with the game is that the music is the same a SMBs! Then again considering how bad Mario 3's music was maybe it was for the best.
When put that way I now realized Mario had enemy bridges well before Sonic ever did
sphinx said:
When put that way I now realized Mario had enemy bridges well before Sonic ever did
It's not really that hard a game by the standards of many NES platformers since it has permanent continues. But yes the difficulty is still pretty unfair and the level design is not particularly good. It really is like a ROM hack that's designed purely to have bullshit difficulty.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
gblues said:
Levels? Like plural? o_o Even if I'd reach the end of the first stage I wouldn't survive to the beginning of the second.Wikipedia said:
So, I tried today world 8 again and managed to go farther in 8-4 but still, it's hard to get just there.
Once I get past 8-1, I'll usually make it through til the last level and die there.
So, does anyone know how do I get the 2nd power-up in 8-1 that is in a block in a ledge high above when you first encounter a Hammer bro? It is a bit to high to reach and I'd like to be able to get a flower from there. Is it possible?
Thanks.
Once I get past 8-1, I'll usually make it through til the last level and die there.
So, does anyone know how do I get the 2nd power-up in 8-1 that is in a block in a ledge high above when you first encounter a Hammer bro? It is a bit to high to reach and I'd like to be able to get a flower from there. Is it possible?
Thanks.
I played through the All-Stars version when I was younger, and I was sure that the game was impossible to beat as Mario, but I wasn't convinced that Nintendo would deliberately make the game unwinnable with him. Once I cleared D-4 with Luigi, I decided to try again as Mario. Some jumps that I thought were impossible were made easier when I found hidden blocks for momentum assistance, and when I discovered World 9 (after 100 or so deaths), I felt as if the game was rewarding me for being so awesome. =P
I found out later that World 9 unlocked because I progressed from 1 to 8 without warping, but that didn't stop me from patting myself on the back. It's a shame that I lost interest in clearing A to D as Mario after I received Secret of Mana and promptly forgot about the game. =(
I found out later that World 9 unlocked because I progressed from 1 to 8 without warping, but that didn't stop me from patting myself on the back. It's a shame that I lost interest in clearing A to D as Mario after I received Secret of Mana and promptly forgot about the game. =(
Naked Snake
Member
Wait, the GBC version handles differently than the NES original? I thought the game was borked when I tried it on VC :lol
_Alkaline_
Member
Manmademan said:
The thing about Solomon's Key is that it goes from testing your problem-solving abilities to testing your problem-solving abilities AND your reflexes. The second half of the game, particularly the last twenty stages, are very difficult since you not only have to figure out the stage's puzzle, but you have to contend with enemies (respawning enemies included) that come at you hard and fast. And you have a timer. And limited lives. And one-hit kills.
I like the game because there's barely anything like it and it really tests your intelligence, but it is an absolute slut towards the end.
As for SMB2, it's a very tough game, but I can think of numerous NES games that are harder (sometimes significantly so). Ghosts n Goblins. Battletoads. Ninja Gaiden. Silver Surfer. Castlevania. Blaster Master. I dunno if I would put Mega Man here, it's a tough game (particularly in comparison to latter games in the classic series) but I think it's a bit more managable than SMB2.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Ranger X said:
I destroyed Kid Niki when I was 4.
I can't get past the first few stages now.
How the mighty have fallen...
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I'd say it was hard for a nintendo developed game, but pretty much normal for NES era games. I really enjoyed beating it when i got it off the vc and I haven't really played any games pre N64 until the VC happened. It really helps that it has a continue option and the VC has a temporary save state to allow you to take your time. I found the later levels of Ninja Gaiden way more difficult then anything in Mario Lost Levels.
I think what might have made it easier for me was I finished the originial a few months before playing it and I like to explore pretty much every pipe block and even empty air possible looking for secrets. I'm a little surprised people are getting so discouraged by the backwards warp zone. Can't you just do something else while you wait for the time to run out, restarting the level?
I think what might have made it easier for me was I finished the originial a few months before playing it and I like to explore pretty much every pipe block and even empty air possible looking for secrets. I'm a little surprised people are getting so discouraged by the backwards warp zone. Can't you just do something else while you wait for the time to run out, restarting the level?
I'll just leave this here:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/top-10-screwattack/704480
Anyone wants to take the Battletoads challenge?
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/top-10-screwattack/704480
Anyone wants to take the Battletoads challenge?
I beat Battletoads several times without cheats so it can't be the hardest. It's VERY DIFFICULT (and I'm not talking about the Turbo Tunnels) but I guess I just had a lot of time. It helped that Battletoads was one of the best looking games on the system.Dai101 said:
And if we're just sticking with that list, I never even got close to finishing Ghosts and Goblins.