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Community What are the limits of Western Conservatism we are allowed to express?

JordanN

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First let me say, I appreciate that Neogaf continues to be more free and open to a lot more discussions than a lot of other social media out there.
I also understand that Neogaf is a business, and all businesses must make tough decisions that maintain an image or serve day to day operations.. So I understand or support EviLore EviLore decision if there are certain topics that he personally doesn't want his website involved in.

Having said all that, as someone who observes politics globally, it's impossible for me to not notice that the definition of "Conservatism" in our Western societies, or our policies, are becoming increasingly more invisible or impossible to defend without offending someone?

For example, I saw this image posted in gaming side that drives this point home. While satirical, it clearly shows that the topic of LGBT, or at least the idea anyone is actually allowed to question it, is far more taboo in Western countries. Yet in places like the Middle East, where we continue to do business with these people everyday like buy their oil, then obviously Arab Conservatives are not concerned with having a different viewpoint?



This is not to say I actually justify a lot of "other stuff" these Arab countries do. Especially since I do believe that being opposed to a certain topic shouldn't jump to the other extreme (i.e Arab countries have death penalties).

Or another example.

I saw the thread where Microsoft will ban players for using the Confederate flag in their Forza games. Regardless if you think the flag is bad or not, as a skeptic, I do believe that the flag itself goes into grey territory.
Especially since if you ban the Confederate flag, does this include all the other Southern U.S states that are modifications of them?




Anyways, I could go on and on forever. But the point is, even if we do our best to ignore these topics, doesn't it feel like things are coming to a head regardless?

If the only subjects Conservatives are positively allowed to talk about is "cutting taxes" then what does that say about the future of the West going forward? Western Conservatism doesn't even exist anymore, we're all just going to be different flavors of Liberalism?

Edit: Although I should point out, I technically already live in a country where our only Conservative Party is still Centre-Left. And yet, even being on the same page as other Liberals still gets you called racist,sexist,Islamophobic etc. So clearly my fear isn't that I'm against equality or treating people different. My fear is that there wont actually be any future parties where anyone is allowed to disagree. They all must be the same to not offend someone else.
 
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RSB

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"Conservatives" have no one to blame but themselves.

Maybe if they stopped worrying about being called racists, sexists, homophobes, etc, and started being more concerned about their countries being tranformed into globalist dystopias (AKA ultra liberal multicultural shitholes) then they could start turning things around.

Unfortunately that's not the case, and "conservatives"will continue to be completely useless for the foreseeable future.

"Conservative" ideology nowadays:

Low Taxes

No wonder I don't consider myself a conservative anymore.
 
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JordanN

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"Conservatives" have no one to blame but themselves.

Maybe if they stopped worrying about being called racists, sexists, homophobes, etc, and started being more concerned about their countries being tranformed into globalist dystopias (AKA ultra liberal shitholes) then they could start turning things around.

Unfortunately that's not the case, and conservatives will continue to be completely useless for the foreseeable future.

"Conservative" ideology nowadays:

Low Taxes

No wonder I don't consider myself a conservative anymore.
Yup, that's the problem I forsee with the direction we are currently heading.
We can't have Conservative viewpoints on the following topics:

Abortion = You offend Feminists/Women's rights
Guns = They have to be banned
The Police = They must be defunded
Traditional Gender Roles = You offend Feminism
Welfare/Social Services = We must pay them for all eternity
Immigration = Even "illegal" immigrants are considered protected
Free Speech = Gets labeled hate speech.

Like, what's the point of even having a Left & Right Party if everything is already decided for you?
At some point, being Conservative will translate to someone being offended. But just because you offend someone, doesn't actually mean you want to cause harm or hurt them.

What did Ben Shapiro once say? Facts don't care about your feelings.



This should be true for both Right-Wing and Left-Wing. And yet, almost all discussion both online and offline doesn't take the Right-side into account.
 
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RSB

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Yup, that's the problem I forsee with the direction we are currently heading.
We can't have Conservative viewpoints on the following topics:

Abortion = You offend Feminists/Women's rights
Guns = They have to be banned
The Police = They must be defunded
Traditional Roles = You offend Feminism
Welfare/Social Services = We must pay them for all eternity
Immigration = Even "illegal" immigrants are considered protected
Free Speech = Gets labeled hate speech.

Like, what's the point of even having a Left & Right Party if everything is already decided for you?
At some point, being Conservative will translate to someone being offended. But just because you offend someone, doesn't actually mean you want to cause harm or hurt them.
The right keeps falling in the same trap of accepting the whole mental/social/moral framework of the left, and trying to work within it. It's really fucking stupid. With such a moronic tactic, the best they can aspire to is to slow down their ultimate defeat.

What they should do is reject that framework altogether, and try to defend their own view of the world.

The view of the world presented by the left is basically hell on earth to me, but at least they do have a vision for how they want society to work.

The right used to have their own vision of the world too, and even dared to defend it, but now they have nothing beyond "low taxes" and "please don't call us bigots"
 

StormCell

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I think we're approaching a threshold of some sort. The problem is that employers hold too much power in the US. Isn't that funny, OP? The very powers that we've looked to for our self-worth, our living wages, and our private healthcare are now acting as political pawns in a war against us. We're being drug around by the chain that we used to take pride in. Well I think it's funny, because we've spent so much time defending small businesses, businesses in general, and the system that has put our overlords in place over us. Who imagined all the businesses bowing down to the liberals in this way?

I don't know what a response or backlash would look like, but it better involve shutting down all the businesses and grinding society to a full hault or it'll just be some right wingers starving in ditches while everyone else trucks on without us.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I see more and more threads about conservatives and I see the same naive comments.

Don't worry, the body politic of conservatives are watching patiently and conserving without being told to, and often without knowing it. "Progressive" and "conservative" are two integral parts of all human societies. Reducing the words into synonyms for "Right wing" and "Left wing" has robbed the words of their nuance.
 

Gashtronomy

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On a macro scale, maybe. On a micro scale? Fuck em. I'll do what I need to do to look after me and my community and not worry about a man on the other side of the world.

The only place conservatism is being suppressed is on the Internet, which isn't real, it's just a big bible; loads of made up stories written by loads of people from their own view points. If you think about it though, conservatism and free Internet cannot go hand in hand. The Internet is communist as we are all equal on here, you have no more or less rights than me and we're all given an equal lot, which is the Internet itself.

Nobody really cares about the problems on the Internet, it's just something to chat about for fifteen minutes while taking a shit or waiting for dinner to cook.

As for Neogaf, it has changed over the last 12 months, it's subtle, but the changes are there. I don't suppose it helps that a console launch and an American election in the same year draws a lot of attention to a political gaming forum, or is it a gaming forum with politics?

Either way, the popularisation of politics, almost pop-politics, popolitics, if you will, has led to a once boring subject being on the lips of most youngsters. I think that's wrong personally. Only wisened, aged and experienced grey haired old men really know about politics.
 
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Whataborman

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"Conservatives" have no one to blame but themselves.

Maybe if they stopped worrying about being called racists, sexists, homophobes, etc, and started being more concerned about their countries being tranformed into globalist dystopias (AKA ultra liberal multicultural shitholes) then they could start turning things around.

Absolutely 100% correct.

I'm in my 40s and I've been involved in conservative politics at the state and local level since I was old enough to vote.

I can tell you that at the state and local level, liberal organizations run circles around conservative ones. They are better at communicating, organizing, and being active. In my state at least the only thing conservatives do better is turn out to vote when it counts, which, honestly, is all that matters. However, in a situation like we are facing now, conservatives need to become active and stop being afraid. It's the only way you win.
 
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Dee Dah Dave

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I don’t think conservatives or even traditional centre / centre left people understand what is at stake.

Or maybe they do but aren’t prepared to take the necessary actions. Appeasement is usually the option until things get completely drastic. We aren’t there yet, so most will happily bury their head in the sand.
 

GreyHorace

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Yup, that's the problem I forsee with the direction we are currently heading.
We can't have Conservative viewpoints on the following topics:

Abortion = You offend Feminists/Women's rights
Guns = They have to be banned
The Police = They must be defunded
Traditional Gender Roles = You offend Feminism
Welfare/Social Services = We must pay them for all eternity
Immigration = Even "illegal" immigrants are considered protected
Free Speech = Gets labeled hate speech.

I'm just glad that in my country abortion has not been made legal. Yes we have a problem with overpopulation and the poverty that results from it here in the Philippines.

But I will never support abortion as a means of birth or population control. It's just straight up murder of infants. And I'm glad I live in a country where I can say that out loud without being labeled a misogynist.

As for the other issues. Well, we've had 30 years of leftists telling us their way is the best and it's resulted in nothing but people getting angry enough to vote in a guy like Rodrigo Duterte as President. I'm not conservative by any means but fuck the leftists of this country.
 
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JordanN

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I see more and more threads about conservatives and I see the same naive comments.

Don't worry, the body politic of conservatives are watching patiently and conserving without being told to, and often without knowing it. "Progressive" and "conservative" are two integral parts of all human societies. Reducing the words into synonyms for "Right wing" and "Left wing" has robbed the words of their nuance.
I've actually spoke of this before.

For example, I acknowledge that American Muslims are more "Conservative" than actual White & Christian Republicans. The only exception might be the Amish.

But the reason I use "Right-wing" is because, given the context, it is the only opposition towards stopping progressiveness from having complete control.

So even if the American Muslims hate abortion or gay marriage, they're still voting for the party that's going to allow those things anyway.

And you might believe these people will somehow "rise up" or "rebel" one day but what do you think an overton window is? It's only in the Democrats/Left-wing's best interest that all the spotlight stays on them. Even if it meant turning America 100% Muslim, they just don't want an any Republican Party to ever hold power again. That is how much the Democrats hate the Right.
 
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JordanN

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On a macro scale, maybe. On a micro scale? Fuck em. I'll do what I need to do to look after me and my community and not worry about a man on the other side of the world.

The only place conservatism is being suppressed is on the Internet, which isn't real, it's just a big bible; loads of made up stories written by loads of people from their own view points. If you think about it though, conservatism and free Internet cannot go hand in hand. The Internet is communist as we are all equal on here, you have no more or less rights than me and we're all given an equal lot, which is the Internet itself.

Nobody really cares about the problems on the Internet, it's just something to chat about for fifteen minutes while taking a shit or waiting for dinner to cook.

As for Neogaf, it has changed over the last 12 months, it's subtle, but the changes are there. I don't suppose it helps that a console launch and an American election in the same year draws a lot of attention to a political gaming forum, or is it a gaming forum with politics?

Either way, the popularisation of politics, almost pop-politics, popolitics, if you will, has led to a once boring subject being on the lips of most youngsters. I think that's wrong personally. Only wisened, aged and experienced grey haired old men really know about politics.
Even if we use the "bible" argument, the internet itself is still a powerful tool.

All it takes is an angry mob on twitter to get video games banned or people fired from their jobs. Say the wrong thing or do the wrong and it will come back to haunt you.

But the problem is who gets "deplatformed" mostly affects Conservative/non-SJW voices. Crazy communists and blacklivesmatter extremists can say whatever they want and get a slap on a wrist.

But say or believe "I think there are only two genders" and you might as well wish you were dead. The internet isn't going away anytime soon, nor its everyday impacts, so I would be concerned about the future where entire Social Media companies are banding together and banning any dissenting voices from questioning their agenda.
 
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Gashtronomy

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Even if we use the "bible" argument, the internet itself is still a powerful tool.

All it takes is an angry mob on twitter to get video games banned or people fired from their jobs. Say the wrong thing or do the wrong and it will come back to haunt you.

But the problem is who gets "deplatformed" mostly affects Conservative/non-SJW voices. Crazy communists and blacklivesmatter extremists can say whatever they want and get a slap on a wrist.

But say or believe "I think there are only two genders" and you might as well wish you were dead. The internet isn't going away anytime soon, nor its everyday impacts, so I would be concerned about the future where entire Social Media companies are banding together and banning any dissenting voices from questioning their agenda.
All true, though you're bypassing the solution; the only way to win, is to not play.

How many people irl have been cancelled who weren't on the Internet, who weren't a twitter account or blue tick? None. The power of the mob only lies within the Internet itself. Remove yourself from social media, remove your exposure and voila, the mobs reach cannot grab you.

They can scream and screeech their ideologies all day long, it will fall on deaf ears. In cyber space, no one can hear you scream. We saw this in 2016 where the Internet polls said hill dog would win with a landslide.
 
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JordanN

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All true, though you're bypassing the solution; the only way to win, is to not play.
This thinking is dangerous.

Even if Conservatives disengage, that means Liberals now control all media. All Universities. All businesses and banks. They'll get to brainwash another new generation who will start fighting Conservatives in real life.

Just look at Blacklivesmatters and the riots and the statues being torn down. The fight is happening everywhere, even if you try to run away from it.
 

Gashtronomy

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This thinking is dangerous.

Even if Conservatives disengage, that means Liberals now control all media. All Universities. All businesses and banks. They'll get to brainwash another new generation who will start fighting Conservatives in real life.

Just look at Blacklivesmatters and the riots and the statues being torn down. The fight is happening everywhere, even if you try to run away from it.
Generations don't follow on the ideological footsteps of the previous generation. Those who fought in the war and lived by strict moral standards spawned the free-loving hippies, who spawned the tough 80s generation who had to deal with recession, high unemployment and high interest rates. They gave birth to the 90s and millenials' girl power and snowflakes. The pussies having kids now, are in for a real shock when their kids hit the rebellious teenage years. No way will they be more thin-skinned than this generation, as they will have had to grow up during covid and another recession
 

EHuntingon

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Generations don't follow on the ideological footsteps of the previous generation. Those who fought in the war and lived by strict moral standards spawned the free-loving hippies, who spawned the tough 80s generation who had to deal with recession, high unemployment and high interest rates. They gave birth to the 90s and millenials' girl power and snowflakes. The pussies having kids now, are in for a real shock when their kids hit the rebellious teenage years. No way will they be more thin-skinned than this generation, as they will have had to grow up during covid and another recession
I kind of agree. In those cases, though, people could reexamine their situations through Conservative and Liberal books, and lectures. If we ceed everything to the Left, they're going to burn the books and smash the monuments. There won't be anything left to reflect on.
 

Gashtronomy

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I kind of agree. In those cases, though, people could reexamine their situations through Conservative and Liberal books, and lectures. If we ceed everything to the Left, they're going to burn the books and smash the monuments. There won't be anything left to reflect on.
I think this is a little dramatic. What you see on the Internet is only a tiny fraction of a small amount of nutcases. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, the empty can rattles the most etc.

While there's no doubt that academia is tainted at the moment, it only indoctrinate the same kind of people that it always has.

There will be a real push back against the Internet within the next 10 yeara
 
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JordanN

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Generations don't follow on the ideological footsteps of the previous generation. Those who fought in the war and lived by strict moral standards spawned the free-loving hippies, who spawned the tough 80s generation who had to deal with recession, high unemployment and high interest rates. They gave birth to the 90s and millenials' girl power and snowflakes. The pussies having kids now, are in for a real shock when their kids hit the rebellious teenage years. No way will they be more thin-skinned than this generation, as they will have had to grow up during covid and another recession
Take everything you just said but also throw in another variable: multiculturalism.
Now look at voting patterns and it turns out people DO vote based on the previous generation.

And people will continue to hate me for bringing this up, but this is real information. This is election data from 1964 to 2016 that proves everything I'm saying.
But the added variable of multiculturalism also means it's not just a matter of one group changing their minds.

YOU GOTTA DO THIS FOR EVERYONE.

Edit: Here's something that will surprise you.
Remember Bill Clinton? Remember under his presidency he passed the crime bill?
Yet do you think future generations remembered that and switched sides?
NOPE.

Even more people came out and voted for his Wife than Donald Trump. THIS IS FACT.

 
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Gashtronomy

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Take everything you just said but also throw in another variable: multiculturalism.
Now look at voting patterns and it turns out people DO vote based on the previous generation.

And people will continue to hate me for bringing this up, but this is real information. This is election data from 1964 to 2016 that proves everything I'm saying.
But the added variable of multiculturalism also means it's not just matter of one group changing their minds.

YOU GOTTA DO THIS FOR EVERYONE.
We are becoming more Liberal and tolerant so the swing away from hard-line conservatism. Do we want to go back to capital punishment and corporal punishment of the 60s? Fewer social welfare programs and aid for those in need?
 

JordanN

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We are becoming more Liberal and tolerant so the swing away from hard-line conservatism. Do we want to go back to capital punishment and corporal punishment of the 60s? Fewer social welfare programs and aid for those in need?
The opposite of this is swinging towards hard-line liberalism/socialism.

In the OP, I clearly don't have an issue with it Left & Right existing in general. The clear issue and major threat, is when we are not even allowed any dissenting viewpoints at all, because Liberalism becomes the defacto everything.

See my post to RSB that quite clearly explained this.

Abortion = You offend Feminists/Women's rights
Guns = They have to be banned
The Police = They must be defunded
Traditional Gender Roles = You offend Feminism
Welfare/Social Services = We must pay them for all eternity
Immigration = Even "illegal" immigrants are considered protected
Free Speech = Gets labeled hate speech.
But if Conservatism completely dies, then it's impossible to go back from this. If you defend Free Speech for example, you will be labeled "hate speech". You also could never vote this out because elections are once again, Liberal dominated.
 
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Barnabot

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how do you fight against a group of people which at the starting line were slowly conquering hearts and minds and now they're using "brute force" to implement their hegemony based on their idelogy? it's a cultural war we are at in the moment.
 
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JordanN

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Here's another example of what I'm describing.

In Japan, you still have Left-wing & Right-Wing. Nobody is going to kill you or deplatform you if believe Japanese citizens should have free speech but also equal access to free healthcare.
Japanese people in the next 5 or 10 years can switch between being left-wing or being right-wing very easily and it wont cause any major controversy among its citizens.

The U.S elected Donald Trump for only 4 years, and the other side is already convinced he's worse than Hitler. There is no form of redemption for Conservatives, the media has popularized the idea that being a Republican = punishable by death.



Even if Trump wins again, the narrative that Conservatism is "evil" has already been set. Future generations wont want to switch sides because they've already been told that being a Republican is the same as wearing a Nazi uniform.

You can look at the voting data I posted above. In 20 years, where was the switch? More people came out for Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump.
 
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Gashtronomy

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The opposite of this is swinging towards hard-line liberalism/socialism.

In the OP, I clearly don't have an issue with it Left & Right existing in general. The clear issue and major threat, is when we are not even allowed any dissenting viewpoints at all, because Liberalism becomes the defacto everything.

See my post to RSB that quite clearly explained this.



But if Conservatism completely dies, then it's impossible to go back from this. If you defend Free Speech for example, you will be labeled "hate speech". You also could never vote this out because elections are once again, Liberal dominated.
I don't disagree with your concerns, I just don't think it will happen, or it will and they'll be a major correction. The pendulum has swung for 10000 years, yet here we are, better than ever. Our biggest problem in the west is no longer the threat of war, famine or pestilence, its peace, overindulgence and obesity related deaths. We've never had it so good.

If free speech is killed on the Internet, then the Internet will collapse in on itself. balance will always win the day
 

BigBooper

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Progressivism is all about change. If you aren't causing change, you aren't being progressive. Conservatives are usually more live and let live.
 
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Halo is Dead

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"Conservatives" have no one to blame but themselves.

Maybe if they stopped worrying about being called racists, sexists, homophobes, etc, and started being more concerned about their countries being tranformed into globalist dystopias (AKA ultra liberal multicultural shitholes) then they could start turning things around.

Unfortunately that's not the case, and "conservatives"will continue to be completely useless for the foreseeable future.

"Conservative" ideology nowadays:

Low Taxes

No wonder I don't consider myself a conservative anymore.
Good of you to acknowledge the problem of the left. How are conservatives "useless" when there is a cultural war against anyone who disagrees with you? Please tell me how Democrats are so much more "useful" when the biggest cities that are run by Democrats have historic high levels of poverty in the black community and violence yet their local leaders keel blaming "systemic racism" yet they fucking do nothing about it. There is much more to be a conservative than just "low takes" and you should talk to someone more about their values and beliefs.
 

JordanN

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I don't disagree with your concerns, I just don't think it will happen, or it will and they'll be a major correction. The pendulum has swung for 10000 years, yet here we are, better than ever. Our biggest problem in the west is no longer the threat of war, famine or pestilence, its peace, overindulgence and obesity related deaths. We've never had it so good.

If free speech is killed on the Internet, then the Internet will collapse in on itself. balance will always win the day
There are still socialist countries to this day.
The biggest one being China. They've censored their own internet and billions of their citizens haven't stopped them.

That's what threatens the West. An all powerful left-wing party ruled by a 1% elite who can never be voted out while the other 99% of citizens are kept fighting for table scraps.
 
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Gashtronomy

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There are still socialist countries to this day.
The biggest one being China. They've censored their own internet and billions of their citizens haven't stopped them.

That's what threatens the West. An all powerful left-wing party ruled by a 1% elite who can never be voted out while the other 99% of citizens are kept fighting for table scraps.
I don't think we can compare the west to China, or the orient at large. They've always had their own ways of doing things, most often through wars and tyrants. Europe spawned the parliamentary system, the democratic society and modern civilisation - as well as the inventions, medical advancements and social systems we see today. Obviously the Common Wealth inherited this as did the USA. Although they declared their independence from Britain, they still carried over its' foundation of how a country should be run. Of course, the Brits took that from the European system, largely credited to Ancient Greece and Rome.

What does this have to do with today? Well that system that our society is built on, isn't going to change, it hasn't change majorly in 2000 years and a few screeechers on the internet sure as shit aren't going to change it. There have been fluxs, peaks and troughs throughout this time, but it has only benefit the common working man, more and more.

Let the Chinese the Arabs and the Africans do what they will, what they want and what they please, they have done for millennia.

Just as an example of difference between Korea, China and Japan vs the America, UK and Europe, look at the working week and how many hours the common man works per day. France and Spain have a 2 hour lunch break, an early finish on a Friday and all weekend off. Meanwhile, the South Koreans work 6 days a week, upwards of 12 hours a day and that's the norm.

Our cultures and societal expectations are completely different from one-another. It makes no wonder that they manage their populations differently.
 
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RSB

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Good of you to acknowledge the problem of the left. How are conservatives "useless" when there is a cultural war against anyone who disagrees with you? Please tell me how Democrats are so much more "useful" when the biggest cities that are run by Democrats have historic high levels of poverty in the black community and violence yet their local leaders keel blaming "systemic racism" yet they fucking do nothing about it. There is much more to be a conservative than just "low takes" and you should talk to someone more about their values and beliefs.
The problem of the left? What? Also, I never said democrats are useful, only that "conservatives" are useless (I don't even live in the US, but I see "conservatives" all over the western world making exactly the same mistakes)

I've already explained why "conservatives" are useless, in this thread and others. If there's a culture war and you decide not to fight it, then you are fucking useless.

And yes, modern conservatives don't seem to have any kind of ideology beyond low taxes. Abortion? Immigration? Multiculturalism? Feminism? They've surrendered in almost every front to the liberal (globalist) view of the world.

You can complain all day about how awful the morals and ideas of the left are (and they are absolutely abhorrent, IMO) but again, at least they do have a vision of how they want the world to be, and are willing to defend it. Meanwhile, "conservatives" only seem concerned about being called sexists, racists, homophobes, etc.
 
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Halo is Dead

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The problem of the left? What? Also, I never said democrats are useful, only that "conservatives" are useless (I don't even live in the US, but I see "conservatives" all over the western world making exactly the same mistakes)

I've already explained why "conservatives" are useless, in this thread and others. If there's a culture war and you decide not to fight it, then you are fucking useless.

And yes, modern conservatives don't seem to have any kind of ideology beyond low taxes. Abortion? Immigration? Multiculturalism? Feminism? They've surrendered in almost every front to the liberal (globalist) view of the world.

You can complain all day about how awful the morals and ideas of the left are (and they are absolutely abhorrent, IMO) but again, at least they do have a vision of how they want the world to be, and are willing to defend it. Meanwhile, "conservatives" only seem concerned about being called sexists, racists, homophobes, etc.
The regular people are fighting it, just not the politicians. Just look at the massive guns sales all across the nation, meanwhile a couple got called racist by the media for simply defending themselves. Democrats vastly control the media, and schools. Conservatives are not against Immigration, Multiculturalism, or Feminism (except the dumb extremist) so I have no idea where you got that from. If Trump not winning the 2016 election doesn't say a big fuck you to the insane part of the left, then I don't know what does considering they have been so triggered by his existence ever since. We also just got a thread about Tucker Carlson having a massive jump in ratings. Democrats do not have a clear vision of the world when they wanted to arrest conservatives for protesting the lockdown but some how magically want them defunded and abolished while also championing BLM protestors despite the dangers of the virus. Also they wanting more gun control or less guns just a few years ago but now they want to throw shade at the cops? . The political leaders move on a whim based on the social climate. Like I said, for years they claim systemic racism when black leaders do nothing about that racism nor addressing or acknowledging the problem while 7,000 black people are murdered every year and they say fucking nothing.

Further more Louisiana wanted to pass a bill limiting or abolishing abortion in the state (not that I agree with it) yet it was still struck down by the supreme court. Bottom line, both parties have their strengths and weakness but they contribute to the divide of America and it's time they go imo or a new party is seriously introduced.
 
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JordanN

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I don't think we can compare the west to China, or the orient at large. They've always had their own ways of doing things, most often through wars and tyrants. Europe spawned the parliamentary system, the democratic society and modern civilisation - as well as the inventions, medical advancements and social systems we see today. Obviously the Common Wealth inherited this as did the USA. Although they declared their independence from Britain, they still carried over its' foundation of how a country should be run. Of course, the Brits took that from the European system, largely credited to Ancient Greece and Rome.

What does this have to do with today? Well that system that our society is built on, isn't going to change, it hasn't change majorly in 2000 years and a few screeechers on the internet sure as shit aren't going to change it. There have been fluxs, peaks and troughs throughout this time, but it has only benefit the common working man, more and more.

Let the Chinese the Arabs and the Africans do what they will, what they want and what they please, they have done for millennia.

Just as an example of difference between Korea, China and Japan vs the America, UK and Europe, look at the working week and how many hours the common man works per day. France and Spain have a 2 hour lunch break, an early finish on a Friday and all weekend off. Meanwhile, the South Koreans work 6 days a week, upwards of 12 hours a day and that's the norm.

Our cultures and societal expectations are completely different from one-another. It makes no wonder that they manage their populations differently.
It's interesting you acknowledge that different regional groups have their own way of running things.

I'm actually not in denial of that. I'm in 100% complete agreement that China or South Korea or Nigeria run things their own way.

But what you've described about the West is that traditionally, these countries were never as "exposed" to foreign populations as they are today.

So while France or the USA may have had their own revolutions, look at the populations that existed at each point of time? It wasn't the Ottomans or Vikings going to France and telling them "guys, you need to get rid of monarchy and replace it with a Republic". Nor was the French population ever based around those two groups.

Now ask yourself how can you believe the Western system as you know it wont change, if the population continues to?
 
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and 3 others

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Yeah, I don't wanna rock the boat too much, was kinda wondering why that thread was locked yesterday!?
 

RSB

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Tucker is one of the few right wing personalities I truly respect. If only other conservatives were more like him then the culture war wouldn't be so fucking lost:



Unfortunately, most "conservatives" just defend what progressives were pushing for 20 years ago (as I said before, they're only slowing down their ultimate defeat)






Conservatives are not against Immigration, Multiculturalism, or Feminism (except the dumb extremist) so I have no idea where you got that from.
Exactly my point. Thank You.
 
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Halo is Dead

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Tucker is one of the few right wing personalities I truly respect. If only other conservatives were more like him then the culture war wouldn't be so fucking lost:



Unfortunately, most "conservatives" just defend what progressives were pushing for 20 years ago (as I said before, they're only slowing down their ultimate defeat)







Exactly my point. Thank You.
Memes are the lowest forms of intellect, that shit is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start or say. What is your point? That they have no stance on those topics? Have you actually had a legit conversation with a "conservative" on those topics?
 
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Gashtronomy

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It's interesting you acknowledge that different regional groups have their own way of running things.

I'm actually not in denial of that. I'm in 100% complete agreement that China or South Korea or Nigeria run things their own way.

But what you've described about the West is that traditionally, these countries were never as "exposed" to foreign populations as they are today.

So while France or the USA may have had their own revolutions, look at the populations that existed at each point of time? It wasn't the Ottomans or Vikings going to France and telling them "guys, you need to get rid of monarchy and replace it with a Republic". Nor was the French population ever based around those two groups.

Now ask yourself how can you believe the Western system as you know it wont change, if the population continues to?
I'll start this post by saying, i'm a fucking dummy, in the grand scheme of things but i do thoroughly enjoy listening to very intelligent people say things. It's like shining a light on a wall and i'm a cat.

Anyway. From what I've read/heard from really clever people, (i'll use the Vikings as an example) The invading force does change the mentality of the people they've invaded but always keep their structures and systems in place to build upon. We can see this through history with the Athenians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians; they always keep the structure while modifying the ideas. Etymologically you can trace the influence certain groups have had on their hosts. Another example is the French town and street names in Southern England VS the Viking names of Northern England. We can see where the influence of each invasion took root, without fundamentally changing the structure to the point of it being unrecognisable.

Even though we don't speak Latin, we still use the Greek and Roman ideas of society, more than 1500 years onwards. Think of that, not just in terms of time span, but of changes to language, introduction of religion, weapons of war, medicine, phones, planes, industrial revolutions etc. How much has changed? Well, not much to be honest.

Maybe a better comparison would be movable printed type in the 1400's, where most, If not all of the Serfs in England were illiterate, so that they couldn't conspire against the landed gentry. When the poor began to learn and understand reading and writing, they had their own ideas and what they wanted to see change, but nothing did. The internet has given modern-day serfs a platform; people who 20 years ago would never have typed or written a letter out for the masses to see and read, but who can now have millions of people (don't underestimate that figure, millions, at one point, millions was an empire) read and comment on their dross.

When we take all of that incoherent, poorly-articulated rambling in to calculation, we see that nothing will change and the structure won't be threatened. It can't be because of one important truth - it works. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be the structure.

TL;DR for dummies - Same shit, different day.
 
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JordanN

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Anyway. From what I've read/heard from really clever people, (i'll use the Vikings as an example) The invading force does change the mentality of the people they've invaded but always keep their structures and systems in place to build upon. We can see this through history with the Athenians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians; they always keep the structure while modifying the ideas. Etymologically you can trace the influence certain groups have had on their hosts. Another example is the French town and street names in Southern England VS the Viking names of Northern England. We can see where the influence of each invasion took root, without fundamentally changing the structure to the point of it being unrecognisable.
Was this because the invading force didn't actually settle or completely obliterated the native populations in the areas they conquered?

For example, Egypt was definitely occupied by Rome and Greece at one point, yet today it's clearly more Arabian/Islamic in culture.

Same thing happened when you look at Palestine. Hebrews conquered the Canaanites forming the first Israel/Judah. Then Judah was conquered by the Romans who dispersed the Jews throughout the empire. It wasn't until 1948 that Jews would return back to Middle East and the Arabs living there (Palestinians) would be displaced to make room for Israel.

You can look at the Capital to see how the country has changed hands throughout history.

The First Temple was built by the Israelites from thousands of years ago. When the Arab/Muslim population moved in, they built a Mosque on top of that.

 
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BigBooper

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I'll start this post by saying, i'm a fucking dummy, in the grand scheme of things but i do thoroughly enjoy listening to very intelligent people say things. It's like shining a light on a wall and i'm a cat.

Anyway. From what I've read/heard from really clever people, (i'll use the Vikings as an example) The invading force does change the mentality of the people they've invaded but always keep their structures and systems in place to build upon. We can see this through history with the Athenians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians; they always keep the structure while modifying the ideas. Etymologically you can trace the influence certain groups have had on their hosts. Another example is the French town and street names in Southern England VS the Viking names of Northern England. We can see where the influence of each invasion took root, without fundamentally changing the structure to the point of it being unrecognisable.

Even though we don't speak Latin, we still use the Greek and Roman ideas of society, more than 1500 years onwards. Think of that, not just in terms of time span, but of changes to language, introduction of religion, weapons of war, medicine, phones, planes, industrial revolutions etc. How much has changed? Well, not much to be honest.

Maybe a better comparison would be movable printed type in the 1400's, where most, If not all of the Serfs in England were illiterate, so that they couldn't conspire against the landed gentry. When the poor began to learn and understand reading and writing, they had their own ideas and what they wanted to see change, but nothing did. The internet has given modern-day serfs a platform; people who 20 years ago would never have typed or written a letter out for the masses to see and read, but who can now have millions of people (don't underestimate that figure, millions, at one point, millions was an empire) read and comment on their dross.

When we take all of that incoherent, poorly-articulated rambling in to calculation, we see that nothing will change and the structure won't be threatened. It can't be because of one important truth - it works. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be the structure.

TL;DR for dummies - Same shit, different day.
In the grand history of western life, I think you're probably right. In 200 years the people living in the USA will still be relatively alright compared to life elsewhere, as long as someone doesn't start a nuke war. I am worried about life 30 years from now though. How rough will our kids have it? There's lot's of examples in the last 100 years of the downfall of various societies; and they don't always (or maybe even usually?) come back better.
 

JordanN

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In the grand history of western life, I think you're probably right. In 200 years the people living in the USA will still be relatively alright compared to life elsewhere, as long as someone doesn't start a nuke war. I am worried about life 30 years from now though. How rough will our kids have it? There's lot's of examples in the last 100 years of the downfall of various societies; and they don't always (or maybe even usually?) come back better.
Well if Democrats get there way, maybe not.

This was California back when Republicans still had a chance of being elected.




And this is now California after Democrats seized complete control of the state.



It's definitely possible the shift towards permanent leftism means ALL of America will resemble this.

Drug filled homeless dens and rampant crime means life wont ever be the same again.
 
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RSB

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Memes are the lowest forms of intellect, that shit is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start or say. What is you point? That they have no stance on those topics? Have you actually had a legit conversation with a "conservaitve" on those topics?
Memes are just another form of the culture war. Thankfully, I'm seeing more and more right wing zoomers using them very effectively lately. They at least give me some hope for the future, after years of "conservative" boomers being completely oblivious to everything (they don't really seem to care about anything other than their low taxes, even if their country ends up being a liberal shithole)

Anyway, "conservatives" keep accepting the framework of the left, instead of rejecting it completely as they should. And yes, over the past few decades all they've managed to do is accept every liberal policy, just with a bit of delay. Abortion, feminism, immigration, multiculturalism, gay marriage... What's the point of "conservatism" then? It feels more like they're there to give people the illusion of choice, when in reality they are just puppets controlled by their globohomo overlords, to ensure their agenda goes ahead without any major setbacks.

Anyway, you are free to see it otherwise.

IMO there's very little to conserve of this decadent society, so "conservatives" really have no use to me anymore. They should step aside, and allow a real opposition to the globalist dystopia to rise.
 
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Halo is Dead

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Memes are just another form of the culture war. Thankfully, I'm seeing more and more right wing zoomers using them very effectively lately. They at least give me some hope for the future, after years of "conservative" boomers being completely oblivious to everything (they don't really seem to care about anything other than their low taxes, even if their country ends up being a liberal shithole)

Anyway, "conservatives" keep accepting the framework of the left, instead of rejecting it completely as they should. And yes, over the past few decades all they've managed to do is accept every liberal policy, just with a bit of delay. Abortion, feminism, immigration, multiculturalism, gay marriage... What's the point of "conservatism" then? It feels more like they're there to give people the illusion of choice, when in reality they are just puppets controlled by their globohomo overlords, to ensure their agenda goes ahead without any major setbacks.

Anyway, you are free to see it otherwise.

IMO there's very little to conserve of this decadent society, so "conservatives" really have no use to me anymore. They should step aside, and allow a real opposition to the globalist dystopia to rise.
You are calming that conservatives never like change or advocate for human rights. You think it's a necessity for them to be different for everything when the whole ideology of theirs is to uphold law, order, and the constitutional rights of Americans. Women's rights, (legal) immigration, and multiculturalism are all guaranteed under the notion that the everyone should be treated equal in our country and is a corner stone of our constitution in a free democracy along with the second amendment and freedom of speech. Did you know Lincoln was a Republican who threatened the expansion of slave ownership in the south? The conservatives (of today) see the left's policies as treating people based on class and race by giving preferential treatment ( like affirmative action and ethnic quotas ) as unconstitutional because it puts other classes above others and bases their worth solely on the physical appearance.
 

Gashtronomy

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Was this because the invading force didn't actually settle or completely obliterated the native populations in the areas they conquered?

For example, Egypt was definitely occupied by Rome and Greece at one point, yet today it's clearly more Arabian/Islamic in culture.

Same thing happened when you look at Palestine. Hebrews conquered the Canaanites forming the first Israel/Judah. Then Judah was conquered by the Romans who dispersed the Jews throughout the empire. It wasn't until 1948 that Jews would return back to Middle East and the Arabs living there (Palestinians) would be displaced to make room for Israel.

You can look at the Capital to see how the country has changed hands throughout history.

The First Temple was built by the Israelites from thousands of years ago. When the Arab/Muslim population moved in, they built a Mosque on top of that.

From what I've read and I am no means an expert, just repeating their ideas, the invading force needs to learn the language and the culture so that they can trade, barter and survive. It's all well and good marching in to a new, foreign country and murdering everyone, but how do you then feed the troops? House them, cloth them etc. At some point, the invaders have to stop, mingle and live with that country. Taking the Vikings again, they came over to England and murdered, pillaged and raped most of the North but couldn't push in to Scotland because the Celts are fucking mental. The Vikings had to then settle, trade and co-exist with the Britons and Celts for X years until the Vikings were repelled.

I think it's different when it comes to religion though, because it's more of a dick dangling contest of "see, our religion is better so yours will be demolished". Henry VIII of England, stripped all Catholic churches of their lead roofing, so that he could sell it/use it for wartime resources. He left the Protestant churches alone though.

In the grand history of western life, I think you're probably right. In 200 years the people living in the USA will still be relatively alright compared to life elsewhere, as long as someone doesn't start a nuke war. I am worried about life 30 years from now though. How rough will our kids have it? There's lot's of examples in the last 100 years of the downfall of various societies; and they don't always (or maybe even usually?) come back better.
A nuclear war is off the table now. The only scenario where a MAD nuclear war would occur, is if all of the elites, from all countries, agreed to do it do thin out the population. Even then, they would scorch their own Earth and have to live in bunkers for hundreds/thousands of years. So I can't see it happening. Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next 20-30 years, there is a nuclear incident, ala 9/11, where the international community shows complete restraint, and join up to attack the rogue nation that detonated one.

The two greatest examples of societal downfalls in the last 100 years are the British and Soviet empires and i would argue that they weren't affected that badly, in the grand scheme of things. I believe this is down to how the societies fell; which was peacefully. When the British Empire ended, it ended in a way never seen before in history; no wars were fought, no bullets were fire, no bridges were burned. The British simply signed everything back to their original owners. This allowed Britain to be seen as a trusted and responsible nation, to whom the international community could still engage with, knowing that the engagement would be fair. This worked so well, that the Soviet empire followed suit and allowed Russia to flourish. Make no mistake, the USSR was a huge threat to the peace of the world. Now, Russia is trusted (despite what the media say) to be involved with international talks, trades and even joint-military operations.

So, even if the American Empire fell or underwent some adjustment, it would probably be for the better in the long run and for the west.

Our biggest threat to peace and harmony is the Federal Reserve. I don't want to go all (((teh banks))) and (((teh jooz own da world))) but if what i've seen is correct, and it may not be, by 2050 the worlds debt will be higher than the worlds income, at least in the west anyway. What happens then? When money becomes worthless? I've no idea. It could be hairy though.

Edit : For a lot more information and a more articulated, interesting and intelligent look in to how shit doesn't change, please, please read Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. It is a fantastic book and probably the best I have ever read on changing my view of the world.
 
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