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What does NEOGAF think of the graphics on Wii U's second wave of games

Yoshi and the platinum game look fantastic, but i feel that is mostly due to art style. X isnt impressive in the least from the trailer/screenshots.....FFXIII looks better IMO
 
Can't wait till they released more footage with improved graphics. Heads are going to explode around here.

I already said I expect it to be better later on, I'm just calling bullshit that people are saying THIS trailer exceeds the PS360.

That video is equally barren and empty.
It's got trees and clouds, that's all I see in there. No wildlife or anything, you know.

Are you looking at the same video? Horses roaming around, humans riding along the routes, people going about their business.

1:08 of the video. Shows a shot of people doing things, shortly after shows people walking along the trails. The ...you know what... never mind. I'm not bothering with you anymore.
 

beast786

Member
Funniest thing is that you're making the assumption that the entire game will be about huge monsters and only landscape, with no cities or anything else.
Also, more folliage as I already said, and more detailled too. Only thing you shown is a desert. Also, some people showed Gran Pulse from FF13 and trying to argue it's the same... yeah, minus the folliage, the creatures and real time fighting.

because we can only judge what the pic shows. they might have big cities but who knows they might also have to compromise in details in those areas.

even infamous 2 had areas that were gorgeous and other not so much.

you can only compare what you can see.
 

omonimo

Banned
Funniest thing is that you're making the assumption that the entire game will be about huge monsters and only landscape, with no cities or anything else.
Also, more folliage as I already said, and more detailled too. Only thing you shown is a desert. Also, some people showed Gran Pulse from FF13 and trying to argue it's the same... yeah, minus the folliage, the creatures and real time fighting.

No the funniest thing is in a short video when someone trying to argue about it's tech b 'it's a beta' 'who cares of those maniacal details' 'why you said graphically sucks' 'gameplay' etc etc. Just accept until now it's excellent in the art, normal in the tech.
 
because we can only judge what the pic shows. they might have big cities but who knows they might also have to compromise in details in those areas.

even infamous 2 had areas that were gorgeous and other not so much.

you can only compare what you can see.




There's also a trailer you know ?
 

ironcreed

Banned
Nothing mind blowing, but I find a game like 'X' to be quite appealing on the visual front. Then again, I do have a tendency to appreciate the drier, earthy tone and flatter textures that are common in Japanese design. It just strikes a chord with me. Plus, the overall grand landscape, with craggy peaks and huge waterfalls is pretty majestic. The kind of world I would love to sit back and soak in.

Anyway, the launch dampened some of my hopes, but I can totally see me picking up a Wii U down the line for those games that simply will not be anywhere else. Underpowered as it may be, I think it will definitely have it's place and will certainly be more appealing to me than the Wii was.
 
I already said I expect it to be better later on, I'm just calling bullshit that people are saying THIS trailer exceeds the PS360..

It does in some aspects which it shows how much potential the finished product has. More ram and superior GPU is there so its possible. Lets see what the devs do, in the end its really up to them.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Ok, time to open some eyes i think.

------
Very low polygonal terrain

iILOXF10LCPVG.jpg


Sun height doesnt affect shadows at all. Here sun is about in 30 degree, but shadow is cast from 80 degree. So lighting is static, mostly prebaked. Shadow resolution looks like 1024k.

ib0LBs7iUgMmJ1.jpg


Particles quality is on pair with pre PS2 era, alpha texture resolution 64x64?

il7bvvkDrRiVn.jpg


Water rendering is very simple, there is no refraction or distortion and no reflections from objects. Also next example of very low resolution alpha textures.

ibkux6t0lD5gow.jpg


Foliage is completely sprite based, same as in Xenoblade

iLXYGobpZRYCf.gif


LOD is very aggressive, even for sprite based foliage and that means bandwidth problems of WiiU

iIkuFIKUxT86p.gif



Yeah, its on pair with midtier current gen open world games, but even that is generous. What is good in this footage? Characters/NPCs models, materials and HDR.

Dropping truth bombs. I hope the (formerly graphics don't matter) wii crowd noticed this.
 
Are you looking at the same video? Horses roaming around, humans riding along the routes, people going about their business.

1:08 of the video. Shows a shot of people doing things, shortly after shows people walking along the trails. The ...you know what... never mind. I'm not bothering with you anymore.

You must've missed my edit, where I said that I was talking about the non-town stuff we see in the video, because it's obvious that a finished game would have people and whatnot in or near towns, whereas a game in alpha state isn't extremely likely to even have towns already (at least we didn't see any in the footage).

But hey, it's okay. I don't care about this thread anymore.

Derrick01 said:
Dropping truth bombs. I hope the (formerly graphics don't matter) wii crowd noticed this.
Yes we did notice this, but we also noticed that this game is still not finished.
 

omonimo

Banned
It does in some aspects which it shows how much potential the finished product has. More ram and superior GPU is there so its possible. Lets see what the devs do, in the end its really up to them.

& CPU limits is there to reduce its superiority, believe me. CPU is not proper for the WiiU hardware. This is why grass are bitmap (for example) or it use prebaked shadow (apparently).
 
Dropping truth bombs. I hope the (formerly graphics don't matter) wii crowd noticed this.



I wouldn't call focus on little details truth bomb in fact.
What he just done is "here ! this small place looks bad". We judge a game as an overall.
Also, small clipping on grass will be something that will disappear in the final product for sure. (PS: Lol at calling me Wii crowd :p )
 

i-Lo

Member
Foliage with poor draw distance, landscapes that are no more detailed than other games (texture filtering seems better though, which I'll give it that), and oh my, monsters. AI for monsters don't compare to games with characters that walk around doing an activity that isn't walking around aimlessly with a random grazing animation here and there.



Lol. Yeah ok.

In this thread, using the same token of "incomplete game" people are defending it hoping how it will turn out and critiquing it based on how it has turned out so far. In the greater scheme of things, neither one will matter.

What I saw of X impressed me, albeit with pop ins, inaccurate shadow casting, angular shorelines and sword trails. The AA and AF is particularly impressive. If the trend holds true, things will get better from here on out.

You should realise that you will never get through to certain people here. I am with you in that it looks as good as the best of current gen games (and personally believe) if not slightly even better. But the distinction is not as clear or the gap is not as wide as some here are making out to be.
 
& CPU limits is there to reduce its superiority, believe me. CPU is not proper for the WiiU hardware.

No I wont believe you since you dont seem to understand the design differences between the hd twins and the wii u.

Edit: as for your edit. The game is still in development.
 
You must've missed my edit, where I said that I was talking about the non-town stuff we see in the video, because it's obvious that a finished game would have people and whatnot in or near towns, whereas a game in alpha state isn't extremely likely to even have towns already (at least we didn't see any in the footage).

But hey, it's okay. I don't care about this thread anymore.

Their towns won't rival Rockstars. Not in terms of design or AI. Xenoblade towns were empty. Likely because of console limitations, but FF12 had HUGE towns, and that game was on PS2.

The Play-through you listed is performed in the PC version and not the console version. Go to Part1 where you can see in the main menu the option to "Quit to Desktop".


My bad. Skipped the intro. I assumed (wrongly) it was the 360 version because of the controller... Not sure why a lot of people play FPS's on PC with controller... w/e floats their boat.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Yes we did notice this, but we also noticed that this game is still not finished.

That's not my problem. We're judging what was shown.

I wouldn't call focus on little details truth bomb in fact.
What he just done is "here ! this small place looks bad". We judge a game as an overall.
Also, small clipping on grass will be something that will disappear in the final product for sure. (PS: Lol at calling me Wii crowd :p )

The little details is what makes a game look good or bad. There's no point having a next gen NPC or character if he's in a 360/ps3 environment.
 

squid

Member
The games from the Nintendo Direct all look pretty nice, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the next 3D Mario at E3. If EAD Tokyo keeps up their track record, it'll be a real looker for sure.
 
That's not my problem. We're judging what was shown.



The little details is what makes a game look good or bad. There's no point having a next gen NPC or character if he's in a 360/ps3 environment.



Lol. You're just claiming the other thing ! NPC or character is a detail while PS3/360 environnement is kinda the whole thing. Now this guy is just taking really small details instead of the game as a whole. Also, some details are there because the game isn't yet finished.
 
Delight me, please. I'm a regular reader of Beyond3d, not find something of particul exotic on wiiU.

Im not gonna waste my time. You are a known hater and already made up your mind. I already did all reading as well. Let the games speak for themselves. Cant wait to hear your denial in the future.
 

Alucrid

Banned
You must've missed my edit, where I said that I was talking about the non-town stuff we see in the video, because it's obvious that a finished game would have people and whatnot in or near towns, whereas a game in alpha state isn't extremely likely to even have towns already (at least we didn't see any in the footage).

But hey, it's okay. I don't care about this thread anymore.


Yes we did notice this, but we also noticed that this game is still not finished.

"I'm leaving this thread now"

*Doesn't leave thread.
 

SonnyBoy

Member
I'm a huge mecha fan, so that jumped out to me. I think it looks good.

I think what these screenshots did for me, was really get my excitement amped up for the next Xbox and PS.
 

papercamm

Member
It's sad, because those things are very apparent. Especially the pop in and angular shores... which I still think is because early development, but who knows?

Re-watching it with the knowledge I have, yes. They are fairly apparent but initially I focused on character models and backdrops when I first saw the trailer.
 
I am not the type to sit there and pick games apart. I tend to enjoy just playing them more. That said, looks nice to me.
It's very pretty. And yes, it's unfinished. But what was shown doesn't really look beyond the 7th gen systems.

If one wants to claim the game will surpass the 7th gen systems when it's finished, more power to them I guess. It remains to be seen, and certainly may do so. But I don't think from what's shown the claim that the trailer currently does surpass the 7th gen systems' output yet holds true.

But it's very pretty.
 

Huff

Banned
X is totally better!

What flaws? I didn't see them - doesn't count.

This game is still in development, you can't judge it yet!

Graphics arn't important, its only the gameplay that matters!
 

squid

Member
Y'know guys, I dont see the point in trying to use 'X' as proof of WiiU's superiority over 360/PS3 graphics. Even the people you're arguing with expect some WiiU games to surpass 360/PS3 eventually. Whether this trailer (of a game in ongoing development) is on par with or surpasses them, it's not a final representation of either the game or the WiiU's full capabilities. It's like saying David Bowie's 'The Next Day' album is better than 'Reality' or 'Heathen' when we've only heard one track.

So anyway... That Wonderful 101 gif, hey? Yeah... Looks pretty sweet.
 

Portugeezer

Member
They look fantastic, but I think the 3D Mario will be the one to blow everyone away, and Retro's game (if it's Metroid for sure)
 

Hilti92

Member
It's crazy how many people are ripping the Wii U for its graphics and tech. I bought a Wii U and knew about the graphic technology and all of the other shit that is not next gen and I am satisfied with it. The game pad brings a whole new element into gaming and that's why I like it. If you want graphics and performance, go spend $1000 on a new computer. I will happily be buying the Next Box aswell which will again, not be computer quality but will still be great enough. If people like the graphics how they are, why fight with them?
 

Huff

Banned
It's crazy how many people are ripping the Wii U for its graphics and tech. I bought a Wii U and knew about the graphic technology and all of the other shit that is not next gen and I am satisfied with it. The game pad brings a whole new element into gaming and that's why I like it. If you want graphics and performance, go spend $1000 on a new computer. I will happily be buying the Next Box aswell which will again, not be computer quality but will still be great enough. If people like the graphics how they are, why fight with them?

why are people talking about graphics in a thread about graphics?

Huff said:
X is totally better!

What flaws? I didn't see them - doesn't count.

This game is still in development, you can't judge it yet!

Graphics arn't important, its only the gameplay that matters!
 

ironcreed

Banned
It's very pretty. And yes, it's unfinished. But what was shown doesn't really look beyond the 7th gen systems.

If one wants to claim the game will surpass the 7th gen systems when it's finished, more power to them I guess. It remains to be seen, and certainly may do so. But I don't think from what's shown the claim that the trailer currently does surpass the 7th gen systems' output yet holds true.

But it's very pretty.

Oh, I don't think it surpasses them at all. Might come close to being on par with some mid-tier games, as others have said. It's not even close to something like Skyrim. But I still find it appealing and think it is a wonderful looking game environment.
 
Man, you people are awful, I just don't understand how you can debate about this.

All these games look very good, I don't sit in front of a game and wonder why it doesn't look like Crysis 3 and I don't care actually.

I found this quite funny, is the same argument we had over the years with Wii graphics.

"If the game is good I don't care that it dosn't look like GTA4 or FF XIII!"

Then Nintendo finally jumps a gen and you have people drooling about graphics.
 

FACE

Banned
It's crazy how many people are ripping the Wii U for its graphics and tech. I bought a Wii U and knew about the graphic technology and all of the other shit that is not next gen and I am satisfied with it. The game pad brings a whole new element into gaming and that's why I like it. If you want graphics and performance, go spend $1000 on a new computer. I will happily be buying the Next Box aswell which will again, not be computer quality but will still be great enough. If people like the graphics how they are, why fight with them?

You enter on a thread named(my emphasis):

What does NEOGAF think of the graphics on Wii U's second wave of games

And complain that people are talking about graphics. Interesting thought process you have going on there.
 

Mxrz

Member
Including both The Last of Us and God of War: Ascension?

Or are we strictly talking about open world games here...

Its been claimed it looks better than every PS360 game, except for ones it doesn't, but those games don't count cause of stuff. Its a bit fascinating to watch.

RDR and Skyrim on consoles had unstable framerate, should have had shittier graphics for smoother gameplay.
RDR's frame rate is mostly fine. But in general I'd support this. Most developers seem to prefer it the other way for whatever reasons.
 

Hilti92

Member
You enter on a thread named(my emphasis):



And complain that people are talking about graphics. Interesting thought process you have going on there.

Didn't see the graphics, woops. However with that said, it's funny how defensive people are getting about them "being shit" it's a new "next gen" console. The guy who posted the shadow not being in sync with the sun is a bit too extreme.
 

Portugeezer

Member
Its been claimed it looks better than every PS360 game, except for ones it doesn't, but those games don't count cause of stuff. Its a bit fascinating to watch.

Only thing fascinating is what you wrote. It has never made sense to compare open world graphics to linear games, but if people want to do it now it must be a recent thing.
 

Margalis

Banned
So You dont know how prebaked shadows works and that they can occlude geometry?
My prebaked lighting comment was about environment geometry in general, because characters and trees seem to have same shadows cast every time, like many PS2 game had for example.

Are you trying to say that characters have a single pre-rendered shadow map they cast on geometry? Because that's obviously false.

Are you trying to say that characters have a pre-rendered set of shadow maps that has been been rendered out to synch with every frame of their animation? So when that mech transforms and the shadow changes that's like 30+ different high-res shadow maps it's switching between?

Are you trying to say that characters have the same shadows cast on them by the geometry? That's quite common.

And shadows don't "occlude" geometry. I have no idea what that even means - shadows aren't occluders.



Most of terrain is flat and then is covered with sprited based foliage like Xenoblade 1 was, nothing really to talk about and of course nothing impressive, rather unimpressive i would say.

Earlier in this thread (Edit: Or maybe the other X thread) someone posted a pic of 4 impressive PC Games (Witcher 2 etc) and the bottom right one, the best looking one, used 2 rectangle foliage straight out of Sega Rally.

About particles. Can You show me current gen game with such low quality alpha textures?

You said it was pre-PS2 level.

When you say "low quality" alpha textures you mean - the size of the alpha texture? The quality of the alpha texture? The size of the alpha compositing buffer?

Do you even know that those are different things?

mxrz said:
Its been claimed it looks better than every PS360 game, except for ones it doesn't, but those games don't count cause of stuff. Its a bit fascinating to watch.

The combination of visual fidelity, frame rate, texture detail, no screen tearing even at an early stage, draw distance, etc etc etc is certainly up there in comparison to similar 360 games. The overall package certainly looks better than directly comparable games like Dragon's Dogma, Final Fantasy, Skyrim, etc. I'm not that familiar with FC3 but from what I saw at E3 the 360 version has major technical issues.

An individual screen of God of War 3 looks better sure - it should.

When I see this I don't think "the 360 could never do this" but I certainly do think it looks like a best-of-breed game on 360.

Pointing out pop-in on instanced geometry in an alpha build as some sort of "truth bomb" reads more like sour grapes than anything else. Instanced geometry in early builds of games is not just going to pop in often times it will randomly flicker or vanish entirely due to bad bounds calculations, timing issues, etc. The "truth bomb" there is that an alpha build is an alpha build. That's not to say you should excuse any issue you see because it's an alpha build but instanced geometry issues are perfectly normal.
 

Hiltz

Member
Good game design trumps hardware power; I can overlook a game's graphical inferiority as long as the aesthetics and gameplay hold up. It's obviously too early to tell if Monolith Soft will reach its goals of delivering a truly impressive looking game, both technically and artistically, but one thing I still cannot fathom is why on Earth they'd want to aspire to be like Bethesda. That's even more nonsensical than Monolith's storytelling!
 

Coconut

Banned
Pikmon looks good the tilt shift effect really helps beef up the visuals.

The xenogears/ monster hunter thing looks like stuff we've seen already this gen.

Yoshi's Yarn looks like they showed two different proofs of concept hard to judge.

WWHD something looks off can't quite put my finger on it I think it might be the textures they are using.
 
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