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What does Sony's silence mean?

Hostile_18

Banned
First up if you have no raised eyebrows to Sony's PS5 strategy this gen then this thread isnt for you, glad your happy.

So we were promised a Tear down video back at the first official reveal by Mark Cerny. Just over a month out this has yet to arrive.

We haven't seen the OS or its features at all.

We still don't know about the backwards compatibility. The initial messaging was different even amongst Sony, later it was corrected but since then nothing.

I can think of three possible reasons for that, from best case to worst case.

Best case: They are saving amazing news right till last minute because they are that confident in what they have. It will be the knock out punch so to speak.

Ok case: They are intimidated by their rivals tech/Backwards Compatability and so have been working on features right till the end. They haven't revealed anything because they genuinely don't know what they will have/be able to produce come launch.

Worst case: They know their tech, backwards compatability approach is lesser than Microsofts so are purposely sweeping it under the rug. They know they have "lost" on these points, so best not to address it.

So Gaf which option is most likely? Or is there something else that might be going on that I haven't listed? Myself I'm hoping for option 1 but I thinking option 3 is the most likely at this point.
 
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yurinka

Member
A retailer said some of their preorder units won't be delivered at launch. Other one said some of their units won't be delivered until 2021. Consoles were sold out everywhere.

Maybe they don't want to increase the hype because literally can't sell more consoles even if they are outselling PS4 and PS5 already has the best selling launch ever for any console.

In any case, as explained in many other threads multiple Japanese youtubers will stream in a few hours the first hands on, so very likely we'll see the console UI and some games -seems that mainly Astro's playroom- running on real time.

In any case, for sure they aren't intimidated by their rivals or its backwards compatibility. First because they destroyed these rivals during the current gen and everything points that they will continue doing it again in the next gen, at least during the first year where PS5 will have many big AAA exclusives while the competition will only have Halo as big gun, in addition to a games subscription service with some indies and previous gen games.

Looking at what we know about PS5 BC, its boost mode, how PS4 Pro boost mode did work, that PS5 BC had a big role on the console hardware architecture and the loading speed difference between PS5 and Series X, we can expect the same benefits seen in Series X for PS5, but with even shorter loading times.

MS may focus their marketing on previous gen games while Sony may focus their marketing on new games because these are the main guns each console have at launch. Both will have multis and BC, some of these previous gen games with a tweaked next gen verion, but regarding new games MS will have at launch the Falconeer -an indie- as their first next gen only exclusive, while Sony will have multiple AAA exclusives at launch: a combination of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party exclusives, some next gen only and other ones crossgen.

So I think Sony's top priority is to market the new games for their console and the new console's features, because it's going to be their main revenue source, while for them BC is going to be a nice secondary feature which almost won't generate revenue because most people will prefer to play new games instead of old ones.

And well, they aren't silent at all. In fact, PS5 achieved some gaming history records in social media, while Series X don't. PS5 is generation more attention and engagement on internet.
 
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geordiemp

Member
First up if you have no raised eyebrows to Sony's PS5 strategy this gen then this thread isnt for you, glad your happy.

So we were promised a Tear down video back at the first official reveal by Mark Cerny. Just over a month out this has yet to arrive.

We haven't seen the OS or its features at all.

We still don't know about the backwards compatibility. The initial messaging was different even amongst Sony, later it was corrected but since then nothing.

I can think of three possible reasons for that, from best case to worst case.

Best case: They are saving amazing news right till last minute because they are that confident in what they have. It will be the knock out punch so to speak.

Ok case: They are intimidated by their rivals tech/Backwards Compatability and so have been working on features right till the end. They haven't revealed anything because they genuinely don't know what they will have/be able to produce come launch.

Worst case: They know their tech, backwards compatability approach is lesser than Microsofts so are purposely sweeping it under the rug. They know they have "lost" on these points, so best not to address it.

So Gaf which option is most likely? Or is there something else that might be going on that I haven't listed? Myself I'm hoping for option 1 but I thinking option 3 is the most likely at this point.

Sony have got nothing to be worried about.

They are not silent, just some posters getting desperate


 
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Hostile_18

Banned
A retailer said some of their preorder units won't be delivered at launch. Other one said some of their units won't be delivered until 2021. Consoles were sold out everywhere.

Maybe they don't want to increase the hype because literally can't sell more consoles even if they are outselling PS4 and PS5 already has the best selling launch ever for any console.

While that would be a responsible thing to do I don't think any company would purposely limit hype. Selling out and word of mouth alone can lead to loads of potential future sales if people think an item is hard to get. Just look a the Wii. I mean if it was a purely financial marketing campaign (I.e tv ads) holding back might be more worth while because that money can be used bette later. But BC and OS features are kind of a do it now or never, as it's a moot point after release. Plus you'd hope Sony would be on the offensive to win hearts and minds after the Zenimax acquisition. 😊
 
I would hope its close to sending out review units to people but who knows. Sony is going to sell as many as they make so theres no real panic to advertise. Sony is advertising on TV now with that weird ship video but it doesn't say anything about the ps5, seems wasted money.

I want to know about backwards compatibility gameplay and save game files transferring. MS is doing a better job now, but Sony could be just waiting until 2 weeks before the launch to release a grand video explaining everything on YouTube.

Really doesn't matter to me as I have both coming.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
We still don't know about the backwards compatibility. The initial messaging was different even amongst Sony, later it was corrected but since then nothing.

We really do. It's not happening outside of PS4 games, and select digital titles on the store.

Sometime you don't need them to explicitly say these things. My PS5 isn't going to cook my breakfast either, but they don't need to tell me that. If full PS1-3 BC was a thing they'd have been shouting about it from the rooftops by now, it's just not their MO.

Frankly I don't think they need to do anything considering they totally sold out within minutes, everywhere. Showing off the OS early isn't going to ship more units when they can't even allocate enough stock to begin with.
 
One company needs to scream and shout from the rooftops because they are so far behind and it's normal for this to happen and for Sony though they don't have to try as hard screaming and shouting "look at me " because they are already ontop and can coast into next gen off the back of this one imho .... With that said I feel like they are being a little too quite wether that will work out for Sony time will tell but they need to take ms seriously this time round .
 

Hostile_18

Banned
We really do. It's not happening outside of PS4 games, and select digital titles on the store.

Sometime you don't need them to explicitly say these things. My PS5 isn't going to cook my breakfast either, but they don't need to tell me that. If full PS1-3 BC was a thing they'd have been shouting about it from the rooftops by now, it's just not their MO.

Frankly I don't think they need to do anything considering they totally sold out within minutes, everywhere. Showing off the OS early isn't going to ship more units when they can't even allocate enough stock to begin with.

That kind of presumes people don't want to hear about the details and breadth of the enhanced patches and OS features. I surely do.

I think Sony thinking they "have it in the bag" will lead to loss of market share. They should be fighting on all fronts at the start of a console generation, not taking its users or day 1 orders as a solid indicator of things to come IMO :).
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
That kind of presumes people don't want to hear about the details and breadth of the enhanced patches and OS features. I surely do.

I think Sony thinking they "have it in the bag" will lead to loss of market share. They should be fighting on all fronts at the start of a console generation, not taking its users or day 1 orders as a solid indicator of things to come IMO :).

It's not that people don't, it's that it doesn't matter. I want that information too, but we're the sort of consumers that talk on gaming forums, we're not the majority - hell, we're both interested and we both already have pre-orders. What does that say about the importance of these things?

It would definitely be nice to have, but ultimately there's no deeper meaning to it - it'll either happen, or it won't, and as soon as people have a unit in their hands in 7 weeks, nothing in that run-up time will matter.
 
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Mmnow

Member
You're gonna have so much fun with this thread!

Realistically, if there were any secret sauce we'd know it by now. It would've been announced before pre-orders went live. We're out of the period where they're trying to sell us on a product and we're into the area where they're building up to launch. This isn't the time you start to push your product. In theory, everything should be well and truly pushed.

I think the PS5 will be an amazing console. I think everything will just work come launch, but that's not a particularly sexy slogan. It doesn't need to be. There's value in something just working.

I've got questions about BC, and I don't think there will be positive answers. The people selling 99 per cent compatibility at launch will either be vocally disappointed or obvious in their silence. But the UI will at least match the PS4, games will run and they'll look spectacular. All the magic share stuff I suspect will either come months after launch or it'll be built upon over the coming year(s).

So what's with how Sony have been acting? I think it's part surprise - I maintain they didn't expect to lose "so much" on the paper specs. You want to sell your best features, but when your best features are already bettered by the competition, you have to choose your battles. "We have an amazing GPU... but Microsoft's is better on paper."

That's not to say the difference will be massive as I'm sure people will be quick to tell me. It just means you can't advertise your amazing feature without highlighting that the competition's is better.

But that's secondary. I think the marketing got away with them. I can't believe they put out the Cerny talk as their first video on the subject. At that point, I suspect we were early days of Covid, they knew there'd be an effect, but they didn't know what. Anything is vaguely better than nothing, right? Now people are expecting instant loading times and massive open worlds streamed directly from the SSD. When you set yourself up for those things, you're going to fail. And if you don't correct that damn quickly, you're going to fail. And when you're also secretly building your biggest games for old hardware, you're going to fail.

And so I think the reason they've been silent is because we've seen everything we're going to see. Is that a disappointment? Not particularly. I'm ready to be let down on BC and nothing else really matters. UI and trophy system would be good, but I expect them to work identically to the console I already have.

The only issue is that Sony haven't handled the whole thing better. If I'm right and there is nothing else to announce, they could have made a bigger deal of what they have. Nobody would have cared - it'd have stopped fanboys spreading around words they don't understand for starters.
 

yurinka

Member
While that would be a responsible thing to do I don't think any company would purposely limit hype. Selling out and word of mouth alone can lead to loads of potential future sales if people think an item is hard to get. Just look a the Wii. I mean if it was a purely financial marketing campaign (I.e tv ads) holding back might be more worth while because that money can be used bette later. But BC and OS features are kind of a do it now or never, as it's a moot point after release. Plus you'd hope Sony would be on the offensive to win hearts and minds after the Zenimax acquisition. 😊
Zenimax previous games are on Sony's consoles and systems. Zenimax's games announced for the next year are timed console exclusives. So probably until a couple of years they won't need to worry about Zenimax because at least until then seems that no next gen Zenimax game will be released on Series X or on its Game Pass (in the PC one yes, I assume Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo will be there day one). And well, for future Zenimax games to be released after them Phil Spencer said twice that they will consider their exclusivity on a case by case scenario and that Bethesda will continue self publishing their own games.

PS1, PS2 and PS4 outsold Wii. And PS3 was pretty close, if it didn't sell a bit more to outsell Wii was due to Sony's own mistakes made at PS3 launch overpricing it, making a too alien hardware, releasing it over a year after 360 and so on. They will destroy Wii launch numbers with PS5.
 
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Hostile_18

Banned
It's not that people don't, it's that it doesn't matter. I want that information too, but we're the sort of consumers that talk on gaming forums, we're not the majority - hell, we're both interested and we both already have pre-orders. What does that say about the importance of these things?

It would definitely be nice to have, but ultimately there's no deeper meaning to it - it'll either happen, or it won't, and as soon as people have a unit in their hands in 7 weeks, nothing in that run-up time will matter.

I do see your points, I just think where companys have taken consumers for granted in the past it has come back to bite them. I think you should always market your console as if your the underdog. Either they have spent alot of money or time on BC and are waiting to announce it or they arnt bothered and are simply burying bad news. While I agree the general public won't be bothered time has shown that the enthusiast purchaser does influence the general market. This will be the first gen I'll be getting both machines day 1 most likely and I can absolutely guarantee that wouldn't have been the case if Sony's message and offering was as clear and good as the PS4's was.

The last poll showed Xbox purchases way up on last gen and even a 10% loss for Sony of market share equates to millions if not billions of lost revenue.
 

DESTROYA

Member
They are embarrassed about the size and engineering and are relying on their fanboy base to make up early sales.
This post is embarrassing If you really believe that, you have nothing to back that up with besides your words.
At some point all will be revealed.
 

FunkMiller

Member
I'm cancelling my pre-order, sitting it out and seeing how things develop. They're back to arrogant Sony days. A month to launch and what do they do? Give it to a bunch of Japanese YouTubers to mostly show the Playroom "game". Fuck off.

You’re genuinely cancelling a pre order of one of the most sought after pieces of kit this winter, that promises a whole next generation of gaming, because some Japanese kids get to play with a little white robot before any Americans?
 
Yeah what is Sony Hiding? I don't trust them any more. I was once a fan but as of a couple hours ago not so much. I want to see things like the inside of the PS5, the UI, you know, the good shit. Whatcha hiding? What really goes on at Area 51? Are you behind the Illuminati? Why did Japanese tubers get first PS5 dibs? Where is Hoffa's body? Did he even exist? Does the bagel button on your toaster even do anything? OR DOES IT JUST PUT YOU ON A LIST? Sony, you got some 'splaining to do.
 
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Mmnow

Member
What about XBox’s silence on new games?

...see how that works?

Neither company have been as forthcoming as usual, thanks to Covid.

These concern threads about both company’s build up to launch are approaching trolling levels now.
I think Microsoft have been pretty vocal about games. They've announced a bunch of stuff, they've highlighted BC and Gamepass, which are their biggest strengths right now. You don't need to actually say "We've got no AAA titles for launch", it's obvious by just looking.

There's obviously been some issues with capturing footage until very recently. We've seen Yakuza this week, and I'm pretty sure Gears Tactics was the week before, so hopefully that's all been put to bed.
 

Calverz

Gold Member
You’re genuinely cancelling a pre order of one of the most sought after pieces of kit this winter, that promises a whole next generation of gaming, because some Japanese kids get to play with a little white robot before any Americans?
Lol “american”
 

Hostile_18

Banned
You're gonna have so much fun with this thread!

Realistically, if there were any secret sauce we'd know it by now. It would've been announced before pre-orders went live. We're out of the period where they're trying to sell us on a product and we're into the area where they're building up to launch. This isn't the time you start to push your product. In theory, everything should be well and truly pushed.

I think the PS5 will be an amazing console. I think everything will just work come launch, but that's not a particularly sexy slogan. It doesn't need to be. There's value in something just working.

I've got questions about BC, and I don't think there will be positive answers. The people selling 99 per cent compatibility at launch will either be vocally disappointed or obvious in their silence. But the UI will at least match the PS4, games will run and they'll look spectacular. All the magic share stuff I suspect will either come months after launch or it'll be built upon over the coming year(s).

So what's with how Sony have been acting? I think it's part surprise - I maintain they didn't expect to lose "so much" on the paper specs. You want to sell your best features, but when your best features are already bettered by the competition, you have to choose your battles. "We have an amazing GPU... but Microsoft's is better on paper."

That's not to say the difference will be massive as I'm sure people will be quick to tell me. It just means you can't advertise your amazing feature without highlighting that the competition's is better.

But that's secondary. I think the marketing got away with them. I can't believe they put out the Cerny talk as their first video on the subject. At that point, I suspect we were early days of Covid, they knew there'd be an effect, but they didn't know what. Anything is vaguely better than nothing, right? Now people are expecting instant loading times and massive open worlds streamed directly from the SSD. When you set yourself up for those things, you're going to fail. And if you don't correct that damn quickly, you're going to fail. And when you're also secretly building your biggest games for old hardware, you're going to fail.

And so I think the reason they've been silent is because we've seen everything we're going to see. Is that a disappointment? Not particularly. I'm ready to be let down on BC and nothing else really matters. UI and trophy system would be good, but I expect them to work identically to the console I already have.

The only issue is that Sony haven't handled the whole thing better. If I'm right and there is nothing else to announce, they could have made a bigger deal of what they have. Nobody would have cared - it'd have stopped fanboys spreading around words they don't understand for starters.

Great insightful post. I agree pretty much with all your conclusions. They seem like the most logical, none fanboy ones. Hopefully we are wrong but the odds are with us realistically IMO.
 

kyoji

Member
Nobody knows. It's been a strange year for Sony fans.

I assume it's bad management. We all know that they had a huge restructure a year ago. Maybe they aren't working well together.
If a strange year is Playing thru FFVII remake, Nioh 2, The last of us 2, Ghosts of tsuhshima, Genshin impact, amongst a slew of other titles All in a span of 6 months PLUS PS5 releasing in november with arguably its best lineup in comparison to ps1, 2, and 3. Then i cant wait to see whats beyond strange. Why talk when the proof is in the pudding? theres been no shortage or drought of games this year on playstation even with covid hampering things down, and you call this STRANGE? are you for real? Please elaborate.
 

DForce

Member
I don't know why people are getting this upset because we did get a lot of info this week about their first party games.


I think people just want to see the actual console running, the UI and BC games, but I think the perfect time would be to show it off this upcoming week.
 
I've got questions about BC, and I don't think there will be positive answers. The people selling 99 per cent compatibility at launch will either be vocally disappointed or obvious in their silence. But the UI will at least match the PS4, games will run and they'll look spectacular. All the magic share stuff I suspect will either come months after launch or it'll be built upon over the coming year(s).
I don't get that people are expecting 99% compatibility of PS4 games. I've only heard them saying that they are shooting for the top 100 PS4 games. That's it. No full PS1, PS2, PS3 compatibility and not 99% PS4 compatibility.
 

Hostile_18

Banned
If a strange year is Playing thru FFVII remake, Nioh 2, The last of us 2, Ghosts of tsuhshima, Genshin impact, amongst a slew of other titles All in a span of 6 months PLUS PS5 releasing in november with arguably its best lineup in comparison to ps1, 2, and 3. Then i cant wait to see whats beyond strange. Why talk when the proof is in the pudding? theres been no shortage or drought of games this year on playstation even with covid hampering things down, and you call this STRANGE? are you for real? Please elaborate.

The game division (World Wide Studios) and the business division are different entities. You can judge both separately. The game division is nailing it, I dont think anyone has problems with Sony's game out put. Its business division and its policies however have left alot to be desired these last two years.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Imo "best case" doesn't make as much sense when preorders are already open and people are deciding what to buy already.

Hopefully it's 2, working hard on BC and everything right to the last minute and it turns out the story is good, but they don't want to say too much until they know it's done.
 
You’re genuinely cancelling a pre order of one of the most sought after pieces of kit this winter, that promises a whole next generation of gaming, because some Japanese kids get to play with a little white robot before any Americans?

I'll take Jim Ryan's promises with a pinch of salt. And I don't usually pay for things without seeing them working in full. Especially when over £400
 

jakinov

Member
It means they are consolidating their main marketing efforts near the release instead of spreading it out thinly. Giving out information in bits and pieces month in advance does not really happen anymore especially in tech and entertainment. Most prospective PlayStation owners do not need to know about the backwards compatibility, hardware breakdown or how the UI will look at this point. They can learn about it just fine sometime with in the next month or so with all the heavy marketing pushing them to go buy one.
 
I'm cancelling my pre-order, sitting it out and seeing how things develop. They're back to arrogant Sony days. A month to launch and what do they do? Give it to a bunch of Japanese YouTubers to mostly show the Playroom "game". Fuck off.

They're back to arrogant Sony days because they gave the system to some Japanese YouTubers? And ypure canceling your preorder over that?
 

MrS

Banned
If they were proud of it they'd be shouting about it. In the run up to the PS4 release they showed everything and we had a clear picture of the console way in advance. To deviate from that path is extremely foolish and one can't help but feel that the signs are bad. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit concerned. The only thing they have over Xbox is the undisputed quality of the games, which Xbox are earnestly trying to catch up with. Xbox's console, bc policy, game streaming service and game pass are all superior to what PS5 has to offer.
 
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Clear

Member
The game division (World Wide Studios) and the business division are different entities. You can judge both separately. The game division is nailing it, I dont think anyone has problems with Sony's game out put. Its business division and its policies however have left alot to be desired these last two years.

Only in the sense that they are letting their product do the talking and not feeding the internet with an endless supply of trivia to react to. Really not sure what they'd have to gain from trying to appease people who will look to find fault in anything they do regardless.

The really stupid part is that basically MS are giving them nothing new to react to. Everything is a promise to be fulfilled down the line, right now, and for launch they still have jack shit to offer but the same banner features that have kept them languishing in third place for the last few years.
 

kyoji

Member
The game division (World Wide Studios) and the business division are different entities. You can judge both separately. The game division is nailing it, I dont think anyone has problems with Sony's game out put. Its business division and its policies however have left alot to be desired these last two years.
So are we more worried about policys or the games? Which policys have impacted you directly or a game you enjoy and how? i respect your opinion so please elaborate, because im just not seeing it? Maybe im just too old school and value show me more than tell me. I feel like we as gamer's are getting worse and worse as far as a sense of entitlement. Of course sony is far from perfect, but ive yet to see a company that is, These guys are market leader for a reason its not a fluke, And they are always about the games.... you know the most important aspect about video gaming... no smoke and mirrors or tricks to stall for time, the quality and consistency is and has been there for a long time. I think alot of people simply just cant stand that, and wish to peg them down, just like people wanted to see michael jordan fail and looked for any flaw to blow up no matter how minuscule it was.
 
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