• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Drama What if? The rumors were true and PS5 was weaker and more expensive?

Redlight

Member
Feb 5, 2014
1,355
2,891
655
Ya.

He did some tweets this past week out of nowhere saying PS5 is weaker and people went ape shit. He got called out for it and admitted he faked it, so the whole debacle should be over and it's back to normal.

Yet, his troll tweets seem like they created alternate universe mind sets.
He never 'admitted he faked it' in fact quite the opposite, he has doubled down.

Is he reliable? I have no idea, people claim he has a track record. Importantly, he said that it would likely only be a short term thing. Too many people react to the headline and not the substance.
 

Batiman

Member
Feb 11, 2020
2,572
3,038
590
And what exactly did Microsoft do with all of X1's power against the PS4
They offer a platform that’ll play most games at their best. Besides PC obviously. PS4 had great first party games but they probably took up a small percentage of my gaming time this entire gen. I’ve probably spent more time playing gamepass games in the last year than I have with PS4 first party this entire gen. Even MS first party, though they’re not as highly praised as Sony’s.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 93xfan

Tschumi

Gold Member
Jul 4, 2020
3,990
4,551
715
define weaker. The only console that appears to have performance issues thus far is the goliath to PS5's david
 

Redlight

Member
Feb 5, 2014
1,355
2,891
655
I dont know. I was curious about what people might say. Thats why i made the thread.

I think people would react in a predictable way, we've seen how people divide on this site and facts don't seem to have much impact on how people feel. If the Series X is significantly more powerful then some people who are primarily third-party gamers will drift toward Xbox, not an overwhelming number.

Rusted on Sony fans will simply defend, distract and deny all the way through until this next-gen becomes last-gen. I expect that there will be calls to ban DF from this site at some point under this scenario. :)
 
Oct 30, 2011
6,667
6,812
1,075
If the PS5 was truly that much weaker and XSX had over twice the power (and not just 18%), yet was ALSO more expensive, of course that would be a massive disappointment. I'd probably move over all my multiplatform purchases to XSX if that were the case.

However, that's not the reality we are living with. PS5 is 15% weaker, has 120% faster SSD, fairly robust Audio Engine, and also has a totally revamped controller and UI. In other words, it's a complete overhaul and a big next-gen leap.

So we are talking about 1900ish-p vs 2160p. Nobody is going to find a meaningful difference with such a ridiculously small gap.
 

VFXVeteran

Professional Victim (Vetted)
Nov 5, 2019
5,460
12,417
805
Ya.

He did some tweets this past week out of nowhere saying PS5 is weaker and people went ape shit. He got called out for it and admitted he faked it, so the whole debacle should be over and it's back to normal.

Yet, his troll tweets seem like they created alternate universe mind sets.

Maybe he admitted it was fake because the death threats came!! :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Rea

Member
Jul 7, 2020
879
3,539
420
Let's assume for a minute that the rumors are true, and the PS5 runs games at 1440p and the XSX native 4k. a 2x difference in pixels. It could also mean 1440p 30 fps vs 1440p 60 fps as well.

We are all sick of this nonsense. Constant fud spreading about lack of hardware RT, PS5 being RDNA 1.0, no VRS, 9.2 tflops, has been exhausting and while everything except for maybe VRS has been proven to be false, these rumors continue to persist.

So just for the sake of discussion, what if this was true. What if the XSX was 2x more powerful, and also cheaper by some miracle. Would you be disappointed by power of the console? Would Cerny still have your approval? Questions would need to be asked about how Sony made a console half as powerful and more expensive.

I initially made the poll ask if you would buy the PS5, and realized that no question I would buy it for all the exclusives they showed. But I sure as hell would be disappointed if not straight up pissed about how Cerny and Sony allowed such a colossal fuck up.

Edit:
My man, you are forgetting PS5 DE version, no matter how much XSEX will cost, DE will undercut, and same specs as BD version. Last thing your forgetting is Sony's 1st party Devs, even when you attached many potatoes with a strings and put in a ps5 box, they will squeeze whatever juice they can then paint a beautiful picture on your tv. So yeah i trust Sony , they will give me Enjoyable games and that's all I want. I don't give a single fuck about Xbox being the most powerful console, in the end power don't matter, it's all about games and talent of studios.
 
Oct 30, 2011
6,667
6,812
1,075
Not super comparative when you see the type of games pixel arc studios make. Not really pushing hardware and their data of what they are using engine wise is not going to give them a good data set at what each system can do.

Indie developer using unreal that's got it's own lighting engine is a good barometer. Not 2d pixel side scroller.

Somebody needs to PM this mikehagger guy and tell him that the PS4 had over two Xbox 360's worth of difference in compute over Xbox One. Was that such a staggering difference?
 
Last edited:

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,900
7,314
985
How in the hell would half as powerful even be an option though, seriously? Even as a for arguments sake thing, working backwards from a rumor of a resolution is not remotely a fair guess, we already know the specs.

If it's 20% less powerful (realistic) and more expensive, it's a mild bummer, but it's still all about the games you can play on it and PS will still win the generation, brand is too strong globally. That's also only the dumbest paper comparison of GPU ALU flops, CPU is negligible with SMT on.

If we were looking at a 6Tflop machine? Yes, I'd be disappointed in this other reality
 
Last edited:

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,347
31,486
1,260
How in the hell would half as powerful even be an option though, seriously? Even as a for arguments sake thing, working backwards from a rumor of a resolution is not remotely a fair guess, we already know the specs.

If it's 20% less powerful (realistic) and more expensive, it's a mild bummer, but it's still all about the games you can play on it and PS will still win the generation, brand is too strong globally.

If we were looking at a 6Tflop machine? Yes, I'd be disappointed in this other reality
yep. it simply makes no sense, and i dont think dusk fully understands what hes saying. if he knew that 1440p vs native 4k was a 2x difference, he wouldve ignored his sources because that sounds absolutely ridiculous.
 

Aion002

Member
Nov 21, 2019
2,559
4,959
555
SP - BR
That's not an issue for me, what matters for me are the games, if Sony keeps releasing games that I enjoy, I will buy it.

Always remember:

 

Neo_game

Member
Mar 19, 2020
734
741
315
I think the hardcore of both parties have already made up their mind and nothing is going to change it. As far as others gamers are concerned it is impossible to tell the difference on a naked eye unless the dev has seriously messed up. People cannot tell the amount of pixels looking at the game. Going by numbers Xbox has clear advantage but mainstream, casual usually go with which is popular. Sony will have to come up with really good exclusives to make up for the mess they have done with the hardware.
 
Last edited:

DJTHEGREY

Member
Nov 15, 2019
157
151
215
I wouldn't be disappointed. I think for for the sake of competition Xbox needs to be the more powerful system and possibly cheaper.

Sony can afford to be the less powerful system because they have a strong loyal fanbase so most will buy it regardless unless it's overly expensive. Most people who aren't in the loyal fanbase category typically think of Sony first when they think of games anyway.
 
Oct 30, 2011
6,667
6,812
1,075
yep. it simply makes no sense, and i dont think dusk fully understands what hes saying. if he knew that 1440p vs native 4k was a 2x difference, he wouldve ignored his sources because that sounds absolutely ridiculous.

What I don't understand is where the hell did Dusk Golem get the idea that XSX could be cheaper? The only people that are privy to price info are very high up executives and they may not even make the call until right before it's announced.

It's just blatant FUD that has no sense whatsoever. My prediction is that both XSX and PS5 come in at the same price, $499.

PS5 DE will be anywhere from 399 to 449.

However, realistically speaking when has Microsoft shown that they are extremely competitive on price? Sony has the benefit of being able to purchase components at much larger volume, they also have historically had more efficient component/assembly costs. Xbox One X was 499. Xbox One launched at 499. Kinect launched at $150.

So, I could easily see someone make the argument that XSX may be higher than we expect, especially since Microsoft is launching a low-cost Series S. Is $299 for XSS vs $599 for XSX a possibility? I surely think so.

So imagine if PS5 DE is $399 vs. XSX at $599. That seems like a huge gap for what isn't a big power difference, but it's a more realistic scenario than XSX coming in cheaper than PS5
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sensationalist
Oct 30, 2011
6,667
6,812
1,075
That part threw me off big time.

Assuming that Dusk Golem knew the price of the XSX, XSS, PS5DE and PS5 who would give him that information?

And if there wasn't a person that knew both then which two people would give him that information?

Just trying to even the odds bro. Sick of all the negative Xbox news, even though it's all Phil's fault and not FUD.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sensationalist

Fake

Member
Dec 20, 2018
12,777
19,037
915
Rio de Janeiro
“Would you be disappointed if the PS5 is half as powerful as the Xbox Series X AND more expensive?”

“the PS5 runs games at 1440p and the XSX native 4k. a 2x difference in pixels. It could also mean 1440p 30 fps vs 1440p 60 fps as well”

When did 18% more power give you double the pixels/frames?

'I fail in math'.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,347
31,486
1,260
What I don't understand is where the hell did Dusk Golem get the idea that XSX could be cheaper? The only people that are privy to price info are very high up executives and they may not even make the call until right before it's announced.
yeah, that is a big red flag. i speculated in the next gen spec thread that his sources are likely playtesters who played RE8 on the ps4 pro earlier this year, and the same people who leaked the story, gameplay and even the ending online. but if they played on the pro, how do they know what the ps5 version runs like, and why would capcom bring outside playtesters to test the ps5 version? also, why would the playtesters know about the ps5 price or how the xsx version runs when the xsx devkits only just went out and we didnt even see a single game running on the xsx at the xbox reveal. how did capcom manage to get it to run at native 4k 60 fps?
 
  • Like
Reactions: James Sawyer Ford
Mar 27, 2020
12,950
34,886
720
Uncharted bunghole
yeah, that is a big red flag. i speculated in the next gen spec thread that his sources are likely playtesters who played RE8 on the ps4 pro earlier this year, and the same people who leaked the story, gameplay and even the ending online. but if they played on the pro, how do they know what the ps5 version runs like, and why would capcom bring outside playtesters to test the ps5 version? also, why would the playtesters know about the ps5 price or how the xsx version runs when the xsx devkits only just went out and we didnt even see a single game running on the xsx at the xbox reveal. how did capcom manage to get it to run at native 4k 60 fps?

Uses what he heard from the play testers to gain credibility. Once people see him as credible then he proceeds to feed them FUD.

Is this possible?

Im clueless into how he knew the prices and all that info on Silent Hill.
 
Last edited:

laynelane

Member
Aug 21, 2019
431
708
330
X-Box isn't on my radar at all (for purchase) so what they're doing has no effect on my opinion on PS. I would be disappointed if the PS5 is really expensive, though, since I'd like to believe they learned from the PS3 launch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DonF

dyergram

Member
Sep 6, 2009
3,839
228
985
Walsall, UK
I don’t think anyone expects it to be half as powerful. Most people expect the ps5 to outsell the xb maybe up to 2-1 making the likely lead platform for most multi platform games and obviously Sony still ahead of ms for first party even there launch(ish) line up has several exclusives that look great. I’m not interested in anything in ms has shown so far games wise and they seem to be happy putting out early accessish titles as well which I’m not really into.
 

lachesis

Member
Jun 17, 2004
3,977
1,227
1,665
Obviously would be disappointed, just like I was disappointed how launch Xbox One + Kinnect was less powerful and more expensive than PS4.

I will give PS5 more benefit of doubt, though. I think the exclusive or 1st party games that utilizes the variable clock speed and SSD structure to the max, without considering BC requirement to existing PS4 - I think they'll look good enough, regardless 4k or not.

Half as powerful... I'm not sure where that exact number came from, but my understanding was it's 12.x TF vs 10.x TF (max) - so I thought it would be about PS5 would be about 75%+Alpha (as it does have some advantage over XSX, such as SSD.. and I would like to see in real life how the exclusive titles would enhance the gameplay itself other than faster loading, just like that es-Ram touting of old XBone - could be just a marketing ploy or damage control.)

Regardless, I will buy both - and PS5 would most likely my main console because it's likely have more Japanese Niche games of my interest - but I think it probably would be a safe bet if the game is multiplatform, XSX games may perform the best, just like a lot of the XB1X games perform better than PS4 Pro cousins - so I will stick to Series X for multi platform gmes.
 

BluRayHiDef

Banned
Aug 21, 2015
4,000
5,326
830
I wouldn't care, because the power differential is very small and will be nullified by better engineered PlayStation exclusives and the better engineered I/O system.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
4,071
10,727
710
then they completely threw away what they gained this past generation and maybe even more
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Neo_game

93xfan

Member
Feb 23, 2013
3,217
2,298
765
Half as powerful OP? I think it will have weaker ray tracing to go along with the TF difference, but it’s not going to be anywhere near that. This poll isn’t going to tell us anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DonF

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
Jun 14, 2014
5,205
3,501
915
If it were indeed the case that Xbox Series X was TWICE as powerful and still cost more, I’d probably still buy a PS5 since even with the more realistic scenario (%20 less powerful than XSX or whatever) Sony still has the best development talent in their first party studios that exist in the entire industry, period, and in the immediate future the PS5 is the only place to access them.

I’m still buying all my third party shit (and MS games) on PC anyway, so as long as the games continue to be good, I’m there. Only thing that a high price would make me do is wait longer to get it (depending on what exclusives were available).
 

slade

Member
Sep 30, 2005
1,591
621
1,550
40
I've thought about making a similar thread but what I wanted to ask was if people would have been happy with the PS5 launching in 2019. Caveats being that it would be RDNA1 but would also come in at 399 with a price drop to counter Series X launch. SSD would be the same but the dynamic clocks would be lost in favor of more CU's and stable clocks to get to 10Tf's.

Op's scenario is a fun thought experiment because if Sony comes in weaker and more expensive then MS without showing any improvement anywhere then something went catastrophically wrong. Sony could still recover but they would bleed money trying to course correct. In my scenario, I believe Sony has a greater chance of getting to 150 million over 5 years. They would lose less money while being in position to make MS work for every inch of marketshare. Just like the PS2.
 

Aladin

Member
Jul 26, 2020
370
443
280
If Series S is half as powerful as Ps5, and the games come through, then Series S is not a write off.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: Neo_game

TGO

Member
Sep 5, 2007
11,407
12,136
1,580
UK
I'd question what for the fuck is happening at MS studios because the games don't show it.
Don't you find it funny that they have this power advantage yet not ONE developer has demonstrated that.
Hell, we haven't even seen a game match the demonstrated PS5 games yet
MS has had two showings and we've mostly seen CG trailers and the only thing that was real time was Halo Infinite and it was not even running on Xbox Series X
There is also Senua's Saga: Hellblade II that was running 1600p@24fps on I assume the Xbox Series X but we need to see some gameplay
There are parts in the trailer which do not look as good as the rest
This same title is coming to Xbox One.
Don't get me wrong, Sony needs to step up their game too.
MS has just had more showings and has a more powerful machine but has nothing to show for it
 
  • Like
Reactions: DonF

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
17,387
28,001
1,075
Got Games? I'm good then.
Basically this, "power" doesn't guarantee it will get me the games I want, I mean when Persona 6 or next Vanillaware game comes out, I know 100% its coming out on PS5....meanwhile with XSX, its a dice roll.

At that point "power" becomes pointless for me.
 

Raonak

Member
Aug 19, 2010
8,555
1,905
955
29
New Zealand
dreammodule.com
The performance gap is even smaller than the PS4 pro vs X1X, I don't think it's gonna matter at all.

Price may be a decider, but XSX has got so much negative word of mouth that I can see that being moot as well.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,347
31,486
1,260
Obviously would be disappointed, just like I was disappointed how launch Xbox One + Kinnect was less powerful and more expensive than PS4.

I will give PS5 more benefit of doubt, though. I think the exclusive or 1st party games that utilizes the variable clock speed and SSD structure to the max, without considering BC requirement to existing PS4 - I think they'll look good enough, regardless 4k or not.

Half as powerful... I'm not sure where that exact number came from, but my understanding was it's 12.x TF vs 10.x TF (max) - so I thought it would be about PS5 would be about 75%+Alpha (as it does have some advantage over XSX, such as SSD.. and I would like to see in real life how the exclusive titles would enhance the gameplay itself other than faster loading, just like that es-Ram touting of old XBone - could be just a marketing ploy or damage control.)

Regardless, I will buy both - and PS5 would most likely my main console because it's likely have more Japanese Niche games of my interest - but I think it probably would be a safe bet if the game is multiplatform, XSX games may perform the best, just like a lot of the XB1X games perform better than PS4 Pro cousins - so I will stick to Series X for multi platform gmes.
Half as powerful OP? I think it will have weaker ray tracing to go along with the TF difference, but it’s not going to be anywhere near that. This poll isn’t going to tell us anything.
1/2?

idiot
Dusk said ps5 games would be 1440p (3.6 million pixels) vs native 4k on xsx (8 million pixels). That would make Xbox twice as powerful and ps5 half as powerful. I don't think dusk understands how ludicrous this sounds.

I love how meta this thread has become. We are now shooting the messenger of the messenger. I'm not saying this lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mokus and Three

93xfan

Member
Feb 23, 2013
3,217
2,298
765
Dusk said ps5 games would be 1440p (3.6 million pixels) vs native 4k on xsx (8 million pixels). That would make Xbox twice as powerful and ps5 half as powerful. I don't think dusk understands how ludicrous this sounds.

I love how meta this thread has become. We are now shooting the messenger of the messenger. I'm not saying this lol

it would depend on where the bottleneck was. It could be heavily using ray tracing- where the PS5 may struggle to keep up due to having less CUs.
 

DonF

Member
Jul 10, 2017
4,279
4,984
510
I seriously doubt the ps5 is going to be more expensive.

The xsx is not only more powerful but also over engineered.

I don't know why no one is talking about the fact that the thing has a split Mobo


The ps5 has a way simpler design. The Xbox series x looks like way more complicated in every single way, the only thing "better" on the ps5 is 1 component, the faster ssd, and people talk like the xsx doesn't have an SSD, it not only has one but also has a user friendly ssd port. I guess that alone will make the machine way more expensive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Daniel_Mallorca1985

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
11,347
31,486
1,260
it would depend on where the bottleneck was. It could be heavily using ray tracing- where the PS5 may struggle to keep up due to having less CUs.
Maybe. But even that isn't likely because ray tracing scales with gpu clockspeed as we can see in rtx cards. So the difference should still be 18%.

In order for dusks rumors be to be true, the ps5 has to be rdna 1.0 which does not scale well after 1.9 ghz, does not handle native 4k 60 fps well, and does not have vrs or hardware ray tracing. That's the only way you will have a native 4k game running at 1440p on ps5.
 

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,989
5,143
1,635
I seriously doubt the ps5 is going to be more expensive.

The xsx is not only more powerful but also over engineered.

I don't know why no one is talking about the fact that the thing has a split Mobo


The ps5 has a way simpler design. The Xbox series x looks like way more complicated in every single way, the only thing "better" on the ps5 is 1 component, the faster ssd, and people talk like the xsx doesn't have an SSD, it not only has one but also has a user friendly ssd port. I guess that alone will make the machine way more expensive.
Could you post some screenshots of the simpler PS5 motherboard? I haven't seen them yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CobraXT and GP4

RCU005

Member
Nov 9, 2016
564
1,022
530
First of all, all these BS rumors are BS. I can't fathom how someone could believe those rumors spreading FUD for even 1 second.

But OT, in a what IF scenario: It wouldn't matter. People are hypocrites, everyone is saying that Series S would not affect games, and that they would just run at 1080p. They say that it's practically the same console than the XSX. So, with that said, why would it be wrong for PS5 to run games at 1440p (2K)?

PS5 will NOT be more expensive that the XSX. There is no way in hell, and it has less chance than pigs flying.