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Drama What if? The rumors were true and PS5 was weaker and more expensive?

Stilton Disco

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What if the XBOX series X turns out to be more expensive than PS5?
No one would be surprised.

This whole thing with 'rumours' that the PS5 will be more expensive just seems to be more FUD spreading by the same wankers lying about games not running properly on it at 4K.

The fact the XSX is so massively powerful, while MS made the XSS specifically to have a cheap alternative, is a far stronger indication of each systems relative likely price point than the opinion of random guys online.
 
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Graciaus

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No one would care about less power as long as the games are good. Price would eventually go down. PS2 demolished everyone and was the weakest. PS3 was more expensive and had an awful start. Still beat the 360 in the end.

Games are the most important thing.
 

KingT731

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Yes 1.8TF difference at 1080 would be significant but as you move up on res that 1.8 makes less of a difference as the rendering power needed increases up to 4x. I'd be happy to see games at a 1440 baseline with higher FPS with the works but everyone seems stuck on 4K.
 

FunkMiller

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Yes 1.8TF difference at 1080 would be significant but as you move up on res that 1.8 makes less of a difference as the rendering power needed increases up to 4x. I'd be happy to see games at a 1440 baseline with higher FPS with the works but everyone seems stuck on 4K.

It's also 15% difference, not 18%. 10.28 tflops is 85% of 12 tflops. Difference is 15%.
 

T-Cake

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I'd be happy to see games at a 1440 baseline with higher FPS with the works but everyone seems stuck on 4K.

I keep saying it but as long as you have a 4K HUD with crisp, clear, UI and text then it doesn't matter what the underlying resolution is, splat some nice AA on to a 1440p image and it'll still look convincingly good.
 
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SaucyJack

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The thing is that demand for PlayStation and Xbox are asymmetric.

PS5 can get away with being more and expensive and/or less powerful whilst the Xbox cannot.
 
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Jason28

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Dude, PS5 is weaker, that's a fact. Now, the reality is that the difference between consoles is the smallest one ever, so i am ok with it.
Now, about price. WHAY YOU ALL DO NOT LISTEN ??? Jim Ryan said
sony_wants_to_transition_players_from_ps4_to_ps5_at_an_unprecedented_pace
You can't do this with a $599 pricetag. Expect 499/399.
 
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Boss Mog

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That way very well be true but for now nothing shown on Series X even comes close to Ratchet & Clank or Spider-man: Miles Morales. Their big exclusive Halo Infinite looked lackluster to say the least. There's no point in having a super powerful console if you're gonna hold it back by mandating that its games also run on a 7 year old piece of junk.
 
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Zato

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Makes no sense it would cost more, Series X is obviously the more expensive machine.
 

Rolla

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If the PS5 is hundreds more in price then that'd be a problem on principle alone. But if it's "relatively" the same price as the competition, I don't think it matters at all.
 

geordiemp

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What if Ps5 performs same and is cheaper ?

All games announced so far on 3rd party have same specs, Destiny 4k60 and Valhalla 4k30.

Ps5 games like miles morales are 4k60 and quantum is 4k60.

All we have had from XSX is this



And most games running on PC equivalent when MS did their show.....

What if ps5 is more efficent and cheaper ?
 
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anothertech

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If Sony uses dynamic res for it's games rather than native 4k, their games will be 2 to 3 times better iq and texture wise and DF will still need to zoom in 800% to tell the difference.

People will gasp and wonder how ps5 games are making SeX games look like Craig

Native 4k is a fucking waste
 
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If it's too expensive the price will eventually be adjusted (same will be impacted, they will have to).

So I don't worry too much about the initial price (or specific launch lineup).
 

FlyyGOD

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Weaker is an interesting way to put it.

Is the GPU as powerful? No

But is the system overall more balanced? Yes

So doesn’t that make it more powerful???

JK. It isn’t a good idea to be the most expensive if you are releasing at the same time
How is a machine that uses variable clocks , slower ram and weaker cpu more balanced that a machine that uses fixed clocks , faster ram and a faster cpu?
 
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Kdad

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For me Playstation is where the games are that I want to play...so like a Nintendo fan, its really irrelevant to me what other consoles specs are... Xbox games are on PC so its never a consideration to plunk down money on redundant hardware that could go into a pc upgrade. From the moves PS is making, this might be the last PS i'll buy as in 5 years PS will be putting more and more content on PC
 
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geordiemp

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How is a machine that uses variable clocks , slower ram and weaker cpu more balanced that a machine that uses fixed clocks , faster ram and a faster cpu?

+ 17 % more TF
+ CPU 1 %, but unknown cache sizes etc

= Ram is same speed 14 GBs chips
+/- Bandidth 560 GBs and 336 GBs split pool vs 448 GBs for all, managing split pool unknown

- Xbox APIs more abstract for BC, there is an efficiency cost for abstraction, major factor.
- 20 % faster GPU on things other than shaders,
- Ps5 has cache scrubbers and coherency engine, efficiencies

- games with heavy streaming ....IO will take longer on XSX, all about time accessing things and cycles.

The end result is how efficient in a frame, so add up all the bits and thats the performance.

They will be close
 
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ManaByte

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Dude, PS5 is weaker, that's a fact. Now, the reality is that the difference between consoles is the smallest one ever, so i am ok with it.
Now, about price. WHAY YOU ALL DO NOT LISTEN ??? Jim Ryan said

You can't do this with a $599 pricetag. Expect 499/399.

Jim Ryan also said:
"I think the best way that we can address this is by providing the best possible value proposition that we can. I don't necessarily mean lowest price. Value is a combination of many things. In our area it means games, it means number of games, depth of games, breadth of games, quality of games, price of games... all of these things and how they avail themselves of the feature set of the platform."
 

ManaByte

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I keep saying it but as long as you have a 4K HUD with crisp, clear, UI and text then it doesn't matter what the underlying resolution is, splat some nice AA on to a 1440p image and it'll still look convincingly good.

Resolution mattered back in 2013 when the PS4 was doing native 1080 and the Xbox wasn‘t. Now it doesn’t matter. Funny how the narrative has flipped.
 
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Jokerevo

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I mean X still has the most powerful console this gen and look what they did with it. Nobody gave a shit that multiplat ran better on it. Nobody cared about the power differential and the differential next gen is even SMALLER.
 

Jokerevo

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Resolution mattered back in 2013 when the PS4 was doing native 1080 and the Xbox wasn‘t. Now it doesn’t matter. Funny how the narrative has flipped.

Yeah because the leap in fidelity was noticeable from ps2. But now who the hell is buying a 4k TV apart from the hardcore? I can tell the difference between 1080p and 4k but who actually cares. The mainstream doesn't.
 

PresetError

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If the PS5 is less powerful than other consoles I don't really care. It's an improvement over the PS4 and the PS4 was an amazing experience so that's what matters to me.

If the PS5 is too expensive (over 500$) i'll simply wait till it comes down on price unless the games on it blow my mind, in which case I will contemplate making an extra effort.
 

ManaByte

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Yeah because the leap in fidelity was noticeable from ps2. But now who the hell is buying a 4k TV apart from the hardcore? I can tell the difference between 1080p and 4k but who actually cares. The mainstream doesn't.

The mainstream is buying 4K TVs because if you’re getting a TV bigger than 43” in 2020 it’s 4K.
 
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Jason28

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I think the best way that we can address this is by providing the best possible value proposition that we can. I don't necessarily mean lowest price.
Right, because lowest price will be Xbox Series S.
 

Stilton Disco

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Resolution mattered back in 2013 when the PS4 was doing native 1080 and the Xbox wasn‘t. Now it doesn’t matter. Funny how the narrative has flipped.
1080p was the norm for TV's and displays generally by the start of this gen, and had even been possible last gen.

XO not being able to reach that for far too many games was an absolute failing on MS's part, entirely due to their mistake in focusing on the already past it's fad Kinect.

The PS4 wasn't so much a beast in the power stakes, as it was reaching the bare minimum people expected of it, and XO couldn't even manage that.

Conversly 4K even now is still barely supported by wider media and still a good few years off being the standard for TV's most will have at home.

Even high end PC's struggle with native 4K, something that won't be changing even with Nvidea's 3000 series GPU's, particularly with the developer baseline going up now we're starting a new console gen.

Combined with diminishing returns as we get to higher resolutions, as well as greater image quality being achievable with upscaling techniques like checkerboarding or DLSS, and there's good arguments for native 4K not being a sensible use of power.
 

ManaByte

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Conversly 4K even now is still barely supported by wider media and still a good few years off being the standard for TV's most will have at home.

It’s the standard now. Go look at Best Buy. If you’re buying a TV in 2020 that's larger than 43”, it’ll be 4K. It’s been that way for at least a couple of years now. Hell, 4K TVs can easily be found for under $300 now and $100 on Black Friday.
 
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Musky_Cheese

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How is a machine that uses variable clocks , slower ram and weaker cpu more balanced that a machine that uses fixed clocks , faster ram and a faster cpu?
Well you got to look at the spoiler tag... I was just being silly in a silly thread.

But I do think it is a bad idea to be priced at the highest when you and your competition are releasing at the same time. I think price and first party are the top 2 factors for the masses
 

ManaByte

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Well you got to look at the spoiler tag... I was just being silly in a silly thread.

But I do think it is a bad idea to be priced at the highest when you and your competition are releasing at the same time. I think price and first party are the top 2 factors for the masses

Price and if it’ll play Call of Duty and Fortnite are the top 2 factors for the masses.
 
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Humdinger

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You can entertain an idea without agreeing with it. :p

But why would you entertain an idea that you have just said everyone is sick of?

Seems like a strange way to start a conversation. "We are all sick of this. Let's talk about it some more."
 

Ulysses 31

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But why would you entertain an idea that you have just said everyone is sick of?

Seems like a strange way to start a conversation. "We are all sick of this. Let's talk about it some more."
To show that you're not to proud to go against your favorite team in that fantasy setting? :lollipop_winking:
 

Stilton Disco

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It’s the standard now. Go look at Best Buy. If you’re buying a TV in 2020 that's larger than 43”, it’ll be 4K. It’s been that way for at least a couple of years now. Hell, 4K TVs can easily be found for under $300 now and $100 on Black Friday.
After double checking current stats, only around a third of households in the US, well under a third in Europe and less than a fifth in even the more affluent parts of Asian have 4K TV's.

Speaking for the UK, the vast majority of TV's you see in stores are still either 1080p, or even just 720p, and we're one of the biggest consumer tech markets on the continent.

Sure, 4K sets are coming down in price , obviously more and more becoming the norm for new purchases, but don't expect them to be in most houses, especially on a global scale, until at least the console generation after next.
 

ManaByte

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After double checking current stats, only around a third of households in the US, well under a third in Europe and less than a fifth in even the more affluent parts of Asian have 4K TV's.

Speaking for the UK, the vast majority of TV's you see in stores are still either 1080p, or even just 720p, and we're one of the biggest consumer tech markets on the continent.

Sure, 4K sets are coming down in price , obviously more and more becoming the norm for new purchases, but don't expect them to be in most houses, especially on a global scale, until at least the console generation after next.

This is almost the same argument one side tried to make against 1080p in 2013. Even going so far to claim the human eye couldn’t see 1080p.
 

geordiemp

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Resolution mattered back in 2013 when the PS4 was doing native 1080 and the Xbox wasn‘t. Now it doesn’t matter. Funny how the narrative has flipped.

There is no difference in resolution yet between ps5 and XSX.

Destiny both 4k60, Valhalla both 4k30

Miles moarels 4k60 , Gears 4k60

Are you expecting a resolution difference. LOL What makes you think that ?

17 % more TF for shaders, 20 % slower GPU for pixel fill rate and GPU work, Ps5 apis more direct

....So what gives ?
 
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Kerotan Frog

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It wouldn't be that much weaker and it has much better games than Xbox. So it doesn't make a difference to me.

God of War 2, Horizon 2, Last of Us 3, Ghosts of Tsushima 2, FF7 Remake Part 2 and 3 (most likely), Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo 7, Spiderman MM and 2, Demons Souls Remake are all reasons you buy Playstation no matter what.