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Drama What if? The rumors were true and PS5 was weaker and more expensive?

VFXVeteran

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If they were, who cares? It's a console. For the most part, you're paying attention to its exclusives. I don't understand the whole "THIS ONE IS STRONG THAT THAN ONE" debate. If one is stronger than the other, who cares? What really matters are the exclusives that drop for that console.

If you care about visuals THAT much, just get a PC and throw money at it until everything looks as good as it possibly can be.

This. Then he can stop the whining about the consoles not living up to his expectations.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

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What's up with all this indy devs lately and the console warring? _ it's a all Playstation4, lol where did i heard that several times before? I know it was us dueling in the forums lol
And different kinds of 18% wtf

My favourite part is that he states 18% is = a PS4 GPU in power (which is true) but fails to mention that PS4 over Xbox One was 2.5-3 360/PS3 GPU. Not to mention that the much higher PS5 clocks mean better GPU performance than XSX in multiple parts of the pipeline (as clearly argued by the XSX architect after they increased the One's GPU clock).

In the end there just wasn't such a big difference in TP/early games in any case between PS4/One so this time it wouldn't shock me if some games actually run better on PS5!
 

the_master

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Without strong competition, the PS5 could just be 5 Potato clocks tied together and it would still sell 100 million
Exactly!
I hope that both consoles do great and the competition becomes very fierce.

Also, it is really bad when people just follow a brand regardless of what the competition offers. This is just the product of marketing and not games, so it is worthless to the users
 
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SlimySnake

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I understand why you'd like to have the discussion, it would be an interesting situation for Sony to be in. You are just not going to be able to have that discussion on Neogaf in a way that is honest and not overrun with diehard Sony fans.
I don't know about that. We are six pages in and it seems to be going fine so far.
 
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DanDirtCheap

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Oct 25, 2018
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I’d still get the PS5 over the Xbox. Sony still have (for my tastes) a much stronger line up of games.

Microsoft will still get my Gamepass money though, it’s great option for my PC, but their console offering is someone irrelevant to me right now.
 

VFXVeteran

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Pcs are its own platform. If the next gen didn't come, pcs would evolve veeeery slowly.
You can throw a lot of money on it but if games are not made for that, you are just wasting it.

Consoles ftw!!!

LOL! It's not a waste. The PC can easily force the basic 3d rendering features that improve image quality and performance. There is nothing about design that's required to enable true 4k and push 60FPS. That's always a win-win.
 

Md Ray

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thats what dusk said. 1440p/1600p on ps5, native 4k on xsx. 2x difference in pixels. thats what makes this whole thing so ridiculous.

He has no technical knowledge. And spoke bullshit. Even if PS5 is 9.2 TF and runs a game at 1440p30, XSX won't be magically running at 1440p60 or 2160p30.
 

Abear21

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Apr 11, 2020
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Console specs don’t matter, it’s all about having devs and studios that are creatively capable and put out quality content. Devs this gen crushed it on shit hardware. Gameplay over graphics errry day!

Edit: I also expect to pay more for access to premium content. It’s the reason it costs more to see the Yankees play than the Brewers.
 
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Warnen

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Sep 24, 2005
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As much as I like Sony games don’t think I could deal with having worse 3rd party games. Horizon, god of war, uncharted 4 and spider man were great this gen but I played Witcher 3, red dead 2, and destiny prob 10x + longer. Not to mention shorter games like Titian fall 2 (prob best single player game this gen) and the Star Wars ea game.

Yeah best 3rd party games are #1 for me, thank god for pc.
 

Demon2blades

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Id still get the ps5
This argument is so disingenuous.

The fact that the PS4 was much more powerful than the Xbox One was a huge factor in people abandoning the Xbox ship and returning to the Sony ship. Power matters more than some people want to admitt.

And the Xbox One X is a late attempt that can only play Xbox One games at better resolution/fps, it's power it's wasted by the Xbox One and everybody knows that.

The other factors were little to no software support well before the end of the 360 gen and the fact that ps3 was still releasing some great games right up untill the end of the gen and all the connect TV TV stuff
There were loads of reasons to abandon ms at the start of this gen .
 

Jon Neu

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It´s hardware that runs software, same as the rest.

That's like saying that an Iphone is the same as the PS5.

Absolute hogwash. Speculation of the highest order. All we need is to look at the history of install bases to know not that many people “switched” to PS4.

The year head start of the 360 and the wreck of a launch the PS3 is what pushed people to Xbox. Those people started coming back in the late PS3 stage, because of games, and they moved to the PS4 because of games. That’s the thing nobody wants to talk about, people were already abandoning the 360 in its last two years because of a lack of compelling games.

And this year because the PS4 is ending strong with great games, those people will move to the PS5.

Thinking such a small difference matters is true tunnel vision. Shows an incredible lack of insight into the industry and how it works.

You are literally talking about the era of Teraflops war. Pretending that power don't matter it's such a true tunnel vision is not even funny.

Of course games matter too, but when you launch a console there's always the promise of games down the road, and people have to choose based on what the specs of the consoles can deliver in theory. That's why teraflops and specs have become so incredibly important, because it's literally a power war. Don't fool yourself pretending is any other thing, it is what it is.

Xbox gained a big piece of the market precisely because they were marketing themselves as a powerful console type of company. When the Xbox One deviated from that and launched a subpar console in terms of power, everybody abandoned ship pretty quickly, me included.

And that's why they are now so invested in making a powerful console again.
 
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phil_t98

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Considering Sony put out better looking games on the Pro than Microsoft has with the One X since release, even if PS5 was half.. they would still have better looking games. MS 's studios are woefully dumb at their craft of creating pretty graphics.
But werent those games 30fps compared to 60fps. last of us 3 against gears of war. Both great but cut backs made to make last of us 2 better in frames per second
 

Thirty7ven

Sony make cringe trainers.
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That's like saying that an Iphone is the same as the PS5.



You are literally talking about the era of Teraflops war. Pretending that power don't matter it's such a true tunnel vision is not even funny.

Of course games matter too, but when you launch a console there's always the promise of games down the road, and people have to choose based on what the specs of the consoles can deliver in theory. That's why teraflops and specs have become so incredibly important, because it's literally a power war. Don't fool yourself pretending is any other thing, it is what it is.

Xbox gained a big piece of the market precisely because they were marketing themselves as a powerful console type of company. When the Xbox One deviated from that and launched a subpar console in terms of power, everybody abandoned ship pretty quickly, me included.

And that's why they are now so invested in making a powerful console again.

There isn't much of a debate. If you want to believe this is some sort of power war, I suggest you take a moment to consider that you're looking at things through the lens of enthusiast forum posters. You are missing the forest for the trees.

I can't change the way you see things, but in the next 12 months it will become very apparent to you that GPU power is very low in the pecking order.
 

Jon Neu

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Considering Sony put out better looking games on the Pro than Microsoft has with the One X since release, even if PS5 was half.. they would still have better looking games. MS 's studios are woefully dumb at their craft of creating pretty graphics.

Again, The Xbox One X only plays the Xbox One games at better resolution/fps, there are no games made from zero for the Xbox One X. Of course Sony games are going to look better, because the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox One.

If you make a Switch Pro with the Power of the PS4, it's games are still going to be Switch games, not PS4 games.

I'm baffled that this crap is still being said at an enthusiast videogame forum.
 

JLB

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I give a shit, but OP is overeating _ we know that the theoretical computational difference is 18 to 20 percent (on paper) and that PS5 SOC has more hardware support than the XSX (for a fact) that can probably even minimize that power gap, so no _ it is half as powerful. And for the price concern, historically only one console was weaker and more costly than the other that i can remember, and that was the Xbox One so different company lol...

What's up with all this indy devs lately and the console warring? _ it's a all Playstation4, lol where did i heard that several times before? I know it was us dueling in the forums lol
And different kinds of 18% wtf 🙃


So we are all Sony fanboys in here ok

Most of fanboys here are sony fanboys, yes. As in the rest of social networks and forums. Its proportional, market leaders have more fanboys than competitors.On consoles, computer manufacturers and soccer teams.
 
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Jon Neu

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If you want to believe this is some sort of power war

I never said is only a power war, you seem to have tunnel vision even in your reading comprehension.

But trying to dismiss how important power is in this era, is borderline crazy talk.

I can't change the way you see things, but in the next 12 months it will become very apparent to you that GPU power is very low in the pecking order.

MS has done a lot of shit, so they have to build the trust of consumers again and that needs time and games that support the "most powerful console" narrative. They have already said that the first two years aren't going to have that much of exclusives made for the Series X, which is the worst PR ever. And the Halo Infinite has been a super fiasco precisely because people expected graphics on par with the most powerful console ever and what we had was Xbox One graphics. So yeah, power and therefore graphical fidelty is super important.

So sorry for you, but no, MS sells in the next months aren't going to show that "GPU power is very low in the pecking order".

But they are far better positioned to make a better gen this time because simply their console isn't weak this time. That alone is a big triumph for MS and they know it.
 

Thirty7ven

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Apr 13, 2020
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I never said is only a power war, you seem to have tunnel vision even in your reading comprehension.

But trying to dismiss how important power is in this era, is borderline crazy talk.

Power is important in the sense that people looking for a next gen playstation or a next gen xbox have certain expectations.

Obviously, for people who care about power, they probably won't be looking to buy a Switch as their sole console. It certainly doesn't tick that box. But the difference in power between a XSX and a PS5 doesn't matter. It might matter to 200k-1M people and that's where it stops. The people who really care about power go PC. The rest just use power as a beating stick on the opposition's team.

Not to mention the Xbox One didn't do anything, like anything better than a PS4. This is not the case with the PS5 and XSX, each have their strengths.

It makes Xbox fans feel better. That's it.
 

BootsLoader

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That’s not a problem for me. I would still buy a PS5 because my favorite games are there. Also my psn account.
 

Jon Neu

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But the difference in power between a XSX and a PS5 doesn't matter.

Probably not that much because they are theoretically close, but it absolutely mattered with the Xbox One vs PS4.

And still, the first DF comparisons between XSX and PS5 games are going to be a fucking bloodbath.

The people who really care about power go PC

Top tier PC's aficionados are a very small niche compared to console users.

If you want the absolute best specs you can buy all the time, obviously you have to go PC and buy hardware and hardware forever and ever. It works if you have a lot of money, but most people prefer consoles.

It makes Xbox fans feel better. That's it.

If it makes Xbox fans feel better and Sony fans feel worse, then they are doing it right.

I still remember the talks here months ago and how every Sony fanboy was believing the 13 teraflops PS5 rumours. Now suddenly, power doesn't matter.

It really makes you think.
 

Phrixotrichus

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That's like saying that an Iphone is the same as the PS5.
Moving the goalposts much? Gaming systems....

but when you launch a console there's always the promise of games down the road
Oh, so now it`s about games again... when it suits you.

people have to choose based on what the specs of the consoles can deliver in theory. That's why teraflops and specs have become so incredibly important,
Absolute nonsense......
As if any normal consumer could even remotely understand how the numbers actually translate to in game-optics. Even for multiplats a single commercial with some better editing skills on either side renders any power difference immediately meaningless. Meanwhile games like Last of Us 2 or Mario Kart which are simply not available on different platforms immediately make any Tflop comparisons impossible.....

When the Xbox One deviated from that and launched a subpar console in terms of power, everybody abandoned ship pretty quickly, me included.
Oh right, it was the power difference, and not the forced DRM, the higher price, the worthless forced gimmicks and their "SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS, TV TV TV" marketing contrary to Sony`s "here are the games for your gaming system"
It was just the Tflops and not the continuation of constant blockbuster droughts on the Xbox platform........riiiight
:lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning:


You might be fixated on power for whatever reason, but most consumers simply look at the games as the past has proven over and over again.
 
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Oh right, it was the power difference, and not the forced DRM, the higher price, the worthless forced gimmicks and their "SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS, TV TV TV" marketing contrary to Sony`s "here are the games for your gaming system"
Their console was weaker AND 100$ more expensive... If it had been weaker and 300 vs 400 we would have had a very different generation.

Also, the whole TV TV TV sports, etc. Thing has been proven right, while they don't show it in their PR much, MS certainly does not focus on games either, they have not shown a real commitment to their console platforms (we have yet another thread about Phil saying he doesn't care if you buy the new toy he is trying to sell you... I mean, who are you to care if the top brass at Xbox doesn't care for their product?)
 

MH3M3D

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Let's see Sony launch the PS5 with the power of the Switch and see what happens.

They couldn't even afford a Craig.

Nobody would care about Craig if the gameplay was good. Its obviously a mediocre current gen game, while it was supposed to be a showpiece nextgen game that would make you run out and get an Xbox.
 

RowdyReverb

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I'm planning on making PS5 my first foray into Playstation, largely for catching up on the PS4 exclusives I missed out on this gen. My Xbox One X should continue to serve well for a few years. So, if PS5 is a little weaker, a little pricier, I still feel like I'm getting what I want
 

ANIMAL1975

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Most of fanboys here are sony fanboys, yes. As in the rest of social networks and forums. Its proportional, market leaders have more fanboys than competitors.On consoles, computer manufacturers and soccer teams.
Read again what you wrote, you imply that every one in here that prefer Playstation is a Sony fanboy _ reiterated in the second post about the poll with 95% users going ps.
 

PlayStaytion

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Both of them are aiming for lasting benefits of the specs they bet for , with all the differences they have sony's approach looks riskier , they need to show what their system is capable of at least from their inhouse studios.
 

Jon Neu

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Moving the goalposts much? Gaming systems....

Smartphones are also gaming systems.

Oh, so now it`s about games again... when it suits you.

I don't know if you can follow me, but here's the crazy idea: It can be about more than one thing.

Absolute nonsense......
As if any normal consumer could even remotely understand how the numbers actually translate to in game-optics.

The average consumer can't understand a lot of things, that's why teraflops are a selling point, because it gives the average consumer an easy reference about the power of the console it's going to buy. But again, it's a selling point based on power, on graphical fidelity.

Meanwhile games like Last of Us 2

You mean that game with those incredible graphics, IA and the other aspects that are only possible if the console is powerful enough?

It really makes you think.

Oh right, it was the power difference, and not the forced DRM, the higher price, the worthless forced gimmicks and their "SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS, TV TV TV" marketing contrary to Sony`s "here are the games for your gaming system"
It was just the Tflops and not the continuation of constant blockbuster droughts on the Xbox platform........riiiight
:lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning::lollipop_grinning:

The funny thing is that Xbox dropped all that pretty fast when they saw the backlash, and still people shat on the console for being so underpowered compared to PS4.

Funny eh?

You might be fixated on power for whatever reason, but most consumers simply look at the games as the past has proven over and over again.

Most consumers who want a PS5 or an XSX want games with new amazing graphics, IA, physics, etc... They want powerful machines that gives them new elevated experiences.

Nobody would care about Craig if the gameplay was good. Its obviously a mediocre current gen game, while it was supposed to be a showpiece nextgen game that would make you run out and get an Xbox.

The gameplay was good and was very Halo like, it was the graphics that were bad.

Proving again my point; people want power, because power brings new elevated experiences. But what they showed with Halo Infinite was a current gen experience and that got people mad because the power of the console wasn't in display. So yes, power and graphical fidelity matters A LOT.
 

Texas Pride

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Power is overrated any way you look at it. Nintendo alone proves this. Xbox usually has more power and it doesn't get them the win at the end of the day. If they concentrated more on games instead of power they could truly compete. Sony is the mid ground between low powered Nintendo & high powered MS and their track record being in that position can't be disputed imo.
 

JLB

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Read again what you wrote, you imply that every one in here that prefer Playstation is a Sony fanboy _ reiterated in the second post about the poll with 95% users going ps.

Mm no, you are having a tough time understanding what i say. key word: proportion.
 

01011001

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I am absolutely expecting the PS5 to be more expensive.

-RAM chips will be basically the same price in both systems, yes Xbox's is faster but they use basically the same RAM, just different clocks
-the APU in the Series X will be a bit more pricey than the PS5's for obvious reasons
-the cooling solution is most likely a bit more pricey in the PS5, but that's only a tiny amount of the total price of the system
-the Audio hardware inside the PS5 will most likely be more expensive than the Xbox's audio chip
-the decompression chip used for the SSD will most likely be more prices for the PS5
-the PS5's case/molding will be more expensive, also a small difference most likely but it's there
-packaging and delivery will be a bit more expensive for the PS5, if we expect the packaging to be bigger, which it will most likely be due to the size differences of the systems
and lastly, the big one
-the SSD inside the PS5 will most likely be way more expensive than the Series X's SSD

so to me that seems like the PS5 will be a few bucks more expensive to make than the Series X, not by much, but it will be.

it will come down to who is willing to sell lower tho. the manufacturing costs will be very similar, so who's willing to substitute harder is who's going to be cheaper.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

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I am absolutely expecting the PS5 to be more expensive.

-RAM chips will be basically the same price in both systems, yes Xbox's is faster but they use basically the same RAM, just different clocks
-the APU in the Series X will be a bit more pricey than the PS5's for obvious reasons
-the cooling solution is most likely a bit more pricey in the PS5, but that's only a tiny amount of the total price of the system
-the Audio hardware inside the PS5 will most likely be more expensive than the Xbox's audio chip
-the decompression chip used for the SSD will most likely be more prices for the PS5
-the PS5's case/molding will be more expensive, also a small difference most likely but it's there
-packaging and delivery will be a bit more expensive for the PS5, if we expect the packaging to be bigger, which it will most likely be due to the size differences of the systems
and lastly, the big one
-the SSD inside the PS5 will most likely be way more expensive than the Series X's SSD

so to me that seems like the PS5 will be a few bucks more expensive to make than the Series X, not by much, but it will be.

it will come down to who is willing to sell lower tho. the manufacturing costs will be very similar, so who's willing to substitute harder is who's going to be cheaper.

The audio, decompression (and other I/O stuff in PS5) is contained within the APU so has no additional cost besides the costs per chip by die size. Which is almost certainly smaller than the XSX APU.

The PS5 SSD might well cost more than the one in the XSX but I seriously doubt it will be 'way more'. Hopefully the teardowns enable accurate estimates. Sony went with the more complicated motherboard layout route with cheaper flash and Microsoft went simpler motherboard layout and faster/more expensive flash.

Microsoft also have the additional cost of a completely separate Lockhart SKU that means another APU design and is rumoured to be a traditional console form factor so those costs can't be shared with the XSX.

So many factors at play here and it really is too hard to gauge TBH.
 
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01011001

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The audio, decompression (and other I/O stuff in PS5) is contained within the APU so has no additional cost besides the costs per chip by die size. Which is almost certainly smaller than the XSX APU.

The PS5 SSD might well cost more than the one in the XSX but I seriously doubt it will be 'way more'. Hopefully the teardowns enable accurate estimates. Sony went with the more complicated motherboard layout route with cheaper flash and Microsoft went simpler motherboard layout and faster/more expensive flash.

Microsoft also have the additional cost of a completely separate Lockhart SKU that means another APU design and is rumoured to be a traditional console form factor so those costs can't be shared with the XSX.

So many factors at play here and it really is too hard to gauge TBH.

I think whoever will be willing to lose more money per unit will be cheaper.
on the other hand, it could be that microsoft may think they don't need to sell the Series X for cheap, because the Series S will be the cheapest system anyways... so maybe the Series X will be more expensive simply because the Series S exists
 

Phrixotrichus

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Smartphones are also gaming systems.
Smartphones are comparable to xbox and ps but nintendo is a special case and must never be compared (because it immediately refutes all your arguments with empirical data). :messenger_face_screaming::messenger_face_screaming::messenger_face_screaming::messenger_face_screaming:

k...gotcha
 
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Bo_Hazem

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You forgot about orphan.

 

THE:MILKMAN

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I think whoever will be willing to lose more money per unit will be cheaper.
on the other hand, it could be that microsoft may think they don't need to sell the Series X for cheap, because the Series S will be the cheapest system anyways... so maybe the Series X will be more expensive simply because the Series S exists

Ironic that such a two SKU strategy should have put them in the pound seat but actually it could cause them more of an headache when it comes to pricing.
 
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geordiemp

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I am absolutely expecting the PS5 to be more expensive.

-RAM chips will be basically the same price in both systems, yes Xbox's is faster but they use basically the same RAM, just different clocks
-the APU in the Series X will be a bit more pricey than the PS5's for obvious reasons
-the cooling solution is most likely a bit more pricey in the PS5, but that's only a tiny amount of the total price of the system
-the Audio hardware inside the PS5 will most likely be more expensive than the Xbox's audio chip
-the decompression chip used for the SSD will most likely be more prices for the PS5
-the PS5's case/molding will be more expensive, also a small difference most likely but it's there
-packaging and delivery will be a bit more expensive for the PS5, if we expect the packaging to be bigger, which it will most likely be due to the size differences of the systems
and lastly, the big one
-the SSD inside the PS5 will most likely be way more expensive than the Series X's SSD

so to me that seems like the PS5 will be a few bucks more expensive to make than the Series X, not by much, but it will be.

it will come down to who is willing to sell lower tho. the manufacturing costs will be very similar, so who's willing to substitute harder is who's going to be cheaper.

  • XSX has a wider bus, RAM chips are all same speed.
  • Ps5 having a few logic registers etc for the SSD is likely not big die area but more than XSX
  • Both have hardware decompression
  • Both have SSD controllers
  • Ps5 SSD has more lanes (12 vs 8) but has smaller chips (12) could be cheaper as older tech ???
  • both have audio built in, Ps5 will be more die area as its more complex
  • XSX has a split main board so more costly and more lanes to RAM (more cost)
  • Ps5 has more expensive cooling and liquid metal etc, could be split heat sinks ?
To me, the difference is the XsX die size costs, the rest evens out.
 
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01011001

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  • XSX has a wider bus, RAM chips are all same speed.
  • Ps5 having a few logic registers etc for the SSD is likely not big die area but more than XSX
  • Both have hardware decompression
  • Both have SSD controllers
  • Ps5 SSD has more lanes (12 vs 8) but has smaller chips (12) could be cheaper as older tech ???
  • both have audio built in, Ps5 will be more die area as its more complex
  • XSX has a split main board so more costly and more lanes to RAM (more cost)
  • Ps5 has more expensive cooling and liquid metal etc, could be split heat sinks ?
To me, the difference is the XsX die size costs, the rest evens out.

the SSD is hard to judge, we can only look at PC parts really until Sony or Microsoft would tell us in detail what kind of hardware specifically these SSDs use. manufacturer etc.
BUT simply by speculating on it, I would assume that thing is gonna be pricey as hell.
 

geordiemp

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the SSD is hard to judge, we can only look at PC parts really until Sony or Microsoft would tell us in detail what kind of hardware specifically these SSDs use. manufacturer etc.
BUT simply by speculating on it, I would assume that thing is gonna be pricey as hell.

Why, the SSD silicon control is small part of the die size, and the rest is a controller (MS also have a controller) and 12 lanes as opposed to 8. And ps5 has slightly less SSD RAM.

If you believe thats expensive thats up to you. I dont, its just a clever design. Only way ps5 SSD is expensive is if buying 12 smaller chips is much more expensive.

Sony could sell it for more, yes, but it does not COST more.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Why, the SSD silicon control is small part of the die size, and the rest is a controller (MS also have a controller) and 12 lanes as opposed to 8. And ps5 has slightly less SSD RAM.

If you believe thats expensive thats up to you. I dont, its just a clever design.

It's actually 12 channels PS5 vs 4 channels on XSX according to Phison:

 
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i mean Xbox can be the most powerful machine ever but you aren't going to be able to play Demon's Souls remake on it.

its the games that sell the console for me. i care not about hardware
 
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