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[Tizoc]

The Hyper Neo Geo 64 debuted into arcades on Sep. 1997, SNK released the racing game Road's Edge/Round Trip RV as the first of their developed HNG64 titles

Now finding good footage of the game is...difficult, I did find this one video though and...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYLtLAMN0Uc

Honestly even WITH AA this game looked subpar compared to the stuff SEGA was releasing on Arcades, like Scud Race which released a year before this particular game.

Was the hardware itself too pricey for arcades at the time? Doesn't help that only a total of 7 games released on the dang thing-
Road's Edge/Round Trip RV
Samurai Spirits 64
Xtreme Rally (can't find good videos showcasing its graphics, but even this game's graphics weren't impressive)
Beast Busters: 2nd Nightmare (a House of the Dead-like game)
Samurai Spirits 64-2
Fatal Fury Wild Ambition
Buriki One

If this was SNK's way of getting into 3D gaming, then they were blinded by their own hubris. Capcom did the right thing with going with releases such as Resident Evil for example.

Anyone care to provide some more impressions of these games at least?

 

[Hayama Akito]

First of all sorry if my english sounds like shit, i'm pretty sleepy now.

Yes, the HNG64 was a total mess not only hardware speaking but also for arcade operators. It was not JAMMA compatible and is a hell of a machine, very big and easy to broke. I have a friend who still has two HNG64, one of them died pretty quickly.

The worst thing about the HNG64 is the "one game per board" policy. SNK was the king of interchangeable cartridges with the Neo-Geo MVS (up to 6 slots) so it was pretty dumb to go back to this shit.

And, of course, the games were pretty mediocre. I think Buriki ONE is by far the most original of all. Wild Ambition is not terrible, but is ugly and bland, much more than Street Fighter EX in my opinion. Samurai Shodown 64, the first one, is ugly as sin but it has a 8-way gameplay and feels a little more original than SS64 2. Overall SNK was not ready for make polygon games, that's for sure.

I had the pleasure of play the first SS64 game in Game Center Mikado in Japan and has some cult there.

 

[Freshmaker]

Judging by the Wiki entry, SNK had designed the system to also be feasible for a home console version as well which is likely why it had such wacky specs relative to the competition.

It was mainly intended to compete with the PS1, N64, Saturn and 3DO etc, so in that respect it did offer superior performance to the field at the time. Didn't age very well at all though.

Bukiri One was in a bowling alley in Durango when I went to college there. Looked terrible even at the time, but it was interesting in a severely limited appeal kinda way since it was intended to be a fighting sim more than a fighting game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDzxwUO5Rlo

 

[Tizoc]

Yet they didn't even bother to have any of their games on the N64 for example, and Wild Ambition took a graphics hit when ported to the PSOne didn't it?

 

[SiegfriedFM]

What's hilarious is that the hardware wasn't compatible with all games at once. There was a "fighting board", a "racing board" and a "shooter board". Maybe some basic game code was central to the hardware?

Either way, it's clunky as shit, both physically and in terms of gameplay. I got one for my cabinet, mostly for laughs.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

They were thinking "we don't have any 3D programming talent base."

 

[Noisepurge]

"Enjoy the double excitement of going and coming back on the same road!"

I mean, killer app right there

I've only played Buriki One at an arcade, it was fun and a nice experiment into different fighting mechanics. But after that there was nothing.

 

[Hasney]

I'm just glad that they're bringing it back as the tech for King of the Fighters XIV

Spoiler

I actually had one of the boards, but it didn't work when I could finally hook it up. Wasn't kept in storage at my parents well when I moved. Yeah, they don't look great but I still want to play them. MAME is progressing slowly but surely on them, so hoping I get my hands on them soon. I think they boot now, but don't play great right now.

What's hilarious is that the hardware wasn't compatible with all games at once. There was a "fighting board", a "racing board" and a "shooter board". Maybe some basic game code was central to the hardware?

Either way, it's clunky as shit, both physically and in terms of gameplay. I got one for my cabinet, mostly for laughs.

I don't believe it was the code, I think it was the inputs for the boards. Basically, there are very few (if any? Can't think of anything on my head) standard MVS games that use anything but the joystick. It was the limitation of using a board where you can just swap out carts, so it was supposed to help with the variety.

 

[Atolm]

If you look at KOFXIV, they haven't learned much.

I remember playing the 4x4 racing game and it was soo bad.

 

[tzare]

i wish they launched these HNG64 games on virtual platforms like PSN XBL or Steam since almost nobody could 'enjoy' them.
But i read that they even lost source code which is hilarious.

 

[Tizoc]

i wish they launched these HNG64 games on virtual platforms like PSN XBL or Steam since almost nobody could 'enjoy' them.
But i read that they even lost source code which is hilarious.

Honestly a full on remake of these games would be better.
Wild Ambition for example has not aged well I feel, the overall system is just...dull.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

"How can we burn a lot of money real fast"

 

[Atolm]

Honestly a full on remake of these games would be better.
Wild Ambition for example has not aged well I feel, the overall system is just...dull.

If the next Samurai Spirits uses the tech of KOFXIV, it may as well pass for a remake haha.

I'd like to see how much money they lost with HNG64 and Neo Geo Pocket. I can't imagine the yearly KOFs being expensive at all and they were fairly successful.

 

[Haganeren]

I was looking at Roads Edge and said "Well, it wasn't TOO bad at the time or was it ?", then i saw SCUD Race and then i said "Oh ! Ok now i understand !"

I still want to play Samurai Shodown 64 1&2, Buriki One and the Fatal Fury though... For the experience. Unfortunatly emulation of the system seems to be quite dead... Or is it ? Do someone have info if i want to test the system and don't know anyone with a NG64 cabinet ?

 

[Tizoc]

If the next Samurai Spirits uses the tech of KOFXIV, it may as well pass for a remake haha.

I'd like to see how much money they lost with HNG64 and Neo Geo Pocket. I can't imagine the yearly KOFs being expensive at all and they were fairly successful.

Did the NG Pocket models really do bad? I'd like to think they did better than the HNG64 at least :X
How well did it do compared to say the WonderSwan?

 

[Hayama Akito]

i wish they launched these HNG64 games on virtual platforms like PSN XBL or Steam since almost nobody could 'enjoy' them.
But i read that they even lost source code which is hilarious.

And emulation is still terrible after all these years. Haze made a statement about this topic this year, and honestly the future is not very bright.

 

[sleazedroid]

I'm looking at Samurai Shodown 64-II footage atm and I'm surprised at how faithful to the 2D designs these models are. Not bad at all.

 

[Spades]

Now I really want to play this game.

 

[Tizoc]

Now I really want to play this game.

Graphically it reminds me of a PSOne racing game, but it does look fun to play at least

 

[Ninja Dom]

Blame Nintendo

Nintendo debuted the 'Ultra 64' in 1995. And when this was announced this was going to take gaming into the 3D era. The Playstation was also taking gaming into the 3D era.

Namco had an arcade based Playstation board (System 11)
Midway had arcade hardware based on Nintendo hardware (so we thought and were told at the time)
Sega had powerful 3D arcade hardware.

SNK had...the 2D, 1990 created, Neo Geo.

For SNK to compete in arcade hardware they had to have rival 3D capable hardware which was the Hyper 64. Name seemed to follow the Ultra 64.

 

[Sayad]

Samurai Spirits 64 gave us Shiki, that's about the best thing to come out of the Hyper NG64.

 

[Hasney]

Blame Nintendo

Nintendo debuted the 'Ultra 64' in 1995. And when this was announced this was going to take gaming into the 3D era. The Playstation was also taking gaming into the 3D era.

Namco had an arcade based Playstation board (System 11)
Midway had arcade hardware based on Nintendo hardware (so we thought and were told at the time)
Sega had powerful 3D arcade hardware.

SNK had...the 2D, 1990 created, Neo Geo.

For SNK to compete in arcade hardware they had to have rival 3D capable hardware which was the Hyper 64. Name seemed to follow the Ultra 64.

The name is fine. The hardware is more shit thrown together in a mess even more than the Saturn was to have its panic 3D.

 

[sörine]

Did the NG Pocket models really do bad? I'd like to think they did better than the HNG64 at least :X
How well did it do compared to say the WonderSwan?

NGPC did great (relatively) and was beating expectations in America. It was more a casualty of the Aruse takeover sadly.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

NGPC did great (relatively) and was beating expectations in America. It was more a casualty of the Aruse takeover sadly.

It could have limped along another year but GBA would have killed it.

 

[JordanN]

That racing game gave me huge nostalgia. I love seeing those raunchy textures from the PS1 days.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Samurai Spirits 64 gave us Shiki, that's about the best thing to come out of the Hyper NG64.

Buriki One gave us Gai Tendo <3

 

[heyf00L]

Looks exactly like Cruisin' USA. It's not the same engine?

 

[Celine]

SNK's 3D board was a failure however I would still like to play the two arcade racing game, Buriki One and the second Samurai Shodown.

i wish they launched these HNG64 games on virtual platforms like PSN XBL or Steam since almost nobody could 'enjoy' them.
But i read that they even lost source code which is hilarious.

That's unfortunate then :-(

Did the NG Pocket models really do bad? I'd like to think they did better than the HNG64 at least :X
How well did it do compared to say the WonderSwan?

WonderSwan was actually moderately successful in Japan (shipped more than Game Gear there).
The reason why it gets dismissed outside Japan is because it's an obscure system for many western gamers.

WonderSwan (whole family) total shipment is around 3.32 million units.
Neo Geo Pocket?
I doubt it even reached 1 million.

NGPC did great (relatively) and was beating expectations in America. It was more a casualty of the Aruse takeover sadly.

For NPD, NGPC LTD didn't even crack 100K.

 

[drotahorror]

Road's Edge looks sick, I really wish I had a chance to play that growing up.

 

[Loona]

I got to play Road's Edge once or twice and really liked the concept - I'm not much into racing games, but this was an interesting take for me that more than made up for the graphics not matching up with more experienced 3D developers' output.
AFAIK nobody else has released something similar

I would really love to get to try Buriki One, between the unusual control scheme and SNK trying a more grounded approach at martial arts.


Wild Ambition looks like it ended up more complete on the PS1 version, despite the graphical downgrade - more than worth it on account of having the best version of Ryo ever. I really wish that got released outside Japan though...


I hope one day the HNG64 gets emulated to a level that enables something like the recent NeoGeo Humble Bundle - I'd put good money into that.

 

[ReyVGM]

For SNK to compete in arcade hardware they had to have rival 3D capable hardware which was the Hyper 64. Name seemed to follow the Ultra 64.

Of course not. That's like saying the Ultra 64 name was following the Commodore 64.

 

[Cleve]

What market are we talking about here, US?

Honestly even WITH AA this game looked subpar compared to the stuff SEGA was releasing on Arcades, like Scud Race which released a year before this particular game.

Sega's MODEL line hardware was incredibly expensive, and not designed to be modular in the same way as HNG64. They were aiming for different targets. MODEL games were typically sold as complete cabinets, HNG64 was intended to be an upgradeable modular system more in line with CPS2/3/MVS,

Was the hardware itself too pricey for arcades at the time? Doesn't help that only a total of 7 games released on the dang thing-
Road's Edge/Round Trip RV
Samurai Spirits 64
Xtreme Rally (can't find good videos showcasing its graphics, but even this game's graphics weren't impressive)
Beast Busters: 2nd Nightmare (a House of the Dead-like game)
Samurai Spirits 64-2
Fatal Fury Wild Ambition
Buriki One

The problem is at this point US arcades were already in a slight decline, and it was difficult to sell operators on this equipment that despite being affordable for a 3d system MVS systems turned a steady profit and were still the ones getting mainline KOF updates. Also none of the HNG64 games are particularly good, SNK lacked experience developing 3d games and art and it showed. I owned a HNG board for a long time with SS, Buriki One, and FFWA. They're interesting side notes as a hardcore SNK fan, but my friends and I were going to sit down and play some neo geo, it was never one of those games.

 

[Kain]

I've always wanted to play SS64.

 

[Skunkers]

It could have limped along another year but GBA would have killed it.

I would have gladly taken another year of NGPC. In particular, SvC MOTM, Last Blade, and Gals Fighters were utterly magnificent games that showed what could really be done on that hardware. SvC MOTM being by far my favorite game to come out of the SNK/Capcom partnership. I would have loved if they had supported the NGPC another year; we might have had a chance at a SvC2, another Samurai Shodown, a Garou port, etc.

Utterly fantastic system.

 

[Tizoc]

I got to play Road's Edge once or twice and really liked the concept - I'm not much into racing games, but this was an interesting take for me that more than made up for the graphics not matching up with more experienced 3D developers' output.
AFAIK nobody else has released something similar

I would really love to get to try Buriki One, between the unusual control scheme and SNK trying a more grounded approach at martial arts.


Wild Ambition looks like it ended up more complete on the PS1 version, despite the graphical downgrade - more than worth it on account of having the best version of Ryo ever. I really wish that got released outside Japan though...


I hope one day the HNG64 gets emulated to a level that enables something like the recent NeoGeo Humble Bundle - I'd put good money into that.

Wild Ambition did get a US release on PSOne though? Or are you talking about the original HNG64 ver. of WA?

 

[Loona]

Wild Ambition did get a US release on PSOne though? Or are you talking about the original HNG64 ver. of WA?

I was aware of no PS1 version of the game released outside Japan - I know it came out on the Japanese PSN, but no western ports, or I would have bought it on the spot.


Regarding HNG64 originals, it's interesting that Buriki One and Road's Edge appeared to have real brands mentioned in them - perhaps they were complementing their budgets with some sponsorship, but it still wasn't enough to keep them financially safe...
I wonder if that branding would be a problem if legal emulated releases become possible...

 

[miserable]

but i liked Wild Ambition on PS1 :/

 

[Zee-Row]

SNK can't make a good looking 3D game to save their life. This is still the case with that new KOF.

 

[sörine]

It could have limped along another year but GBA would have killed it.

Sure, but it'd have been worth it! I still want to play Ogre Battle Gaiden.

Neo Geo Pocket?
I doubt it even reached 1 million.

For NPD, NGPC LTD didn't even crack 100K.

I wouldn't take 90s NPD figures as gospel, particularly for a platform like NGP that had a weirder retail shelf life.

I can't find it now but I distinctly remember Ben Herman mentioning in an early/mid 2000s interview that NGP sold over a million units worldwide in the end, outsold the AES during it's short life, and that it was beating western projections when Aruze pulled the plug prematurely. I'll keep looking and see if I can dig it up.

 

[MrCunningham]

Honestly even WITH AA this game looked subpar compared to the stuff SEGA was releasing on Arcades, like Scud Race which released a year before this particular game.

It was pretty much futile to compete with Sega's Model 3 boards in 1996-1997, so I don't think most arcade publishers didn't even try. In SNK's case, I think it made sense to just make a competent 3D arcade hardware but not waste all their R&D budget to out class Sega.

Though their idea of making different arcade boards for different genres instead of one universal board doesn't make any sense to me either. Neither does removing JAMMA compatibility.

Looks exactly like Cruisin' USA. It's not the same engine?

Heh, I'd say no: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF-fAWgP710

The arcade Cruis'n USA has far worse draw distances and I think runs at 30FPS. This Roads Edge game at least looks like it could be running at 60FPS. Cruis'n USA claimed to be using the Ultra 64 hardware in the attract screen, which was a lie as it used an arcade board called Midway's V-Unit: http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=615. Though the V-Unit hardware is from circa 1994, so it is older than SNK's HNG64 hardware.

Here's Midway's Off Road Challenge from 1997, which also uses the V-Unit hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H49vIYt0JPw (gotta love the random blood and gore, classic Midway)

Namco had an arcade based Playstation board (System 11)
Midway had arcade hardware based on Nintendo hardware (so we thought and were told at the time)
Sega had powerful 3D arcade hardware.

Looking at 1996/ 1997 era arcade hardware, here is a quick comparison:

Model 3 Step 1.5 (scud race hardware)
CPU: 32bit RISC PowerPC 603 @ 100Mhz
System RAM: 8MB,
Video : 2 x Lockheed Martin Real3D/PRO-1000 with 23MB RAM (8 MB texture memory, 1 MB display list, 4 MB culling, 4 MB polygons, 5 MB framebuffer 3D-RAM, 1152 KB tilemap generator VRAM, 33 KB SRAM cache)
Sound CPU : Motorola 68000 (16/32-bit) @ 12 MHz (2.1 MIPS)
Sound Chip: 2× Yamaha SCSP/YMF292-F

Though there are different versions of Model 3. Step 1, Step 1.5, Step 2, Step 2.1. Step 2 has a 166Mhz CPU, more RAM and some other features.


Midway Flagstaff (San Fransisco Rush series)
CPU: 64bit RISC MIPS R5000 @ 200MHz
System RAM: 8MB
Video: 3DFX FBI with 2MB frame buffer, 2 x 3DFX TMU with 10MB of RAM (2 MB frame buffer and 4 MB each for the texture management units)
DCS Sound System (33MHz TMS32C031 @ 33MHz)

HNG64
CPU : NEC VR4300 (64-bit MIPS III architecture based) @ 100 MHz with 4 MB RAM and 64 MB Program Memory
Audio I/O CPU: Custom V53 @ 16 MHz 16-bit microcontroller (NEC V33 based)
Communications I/O CPU: Custom KL5C80A12CFP @ 12.5 MHz 8-bit microcontroller (Z80 compatible)
Sound chip: 32-channel PCM wavetable audio, with maximum sampling frequency of 44.1 kHz (CD-quality) and 32 MB of wavetable RAM
Color Palette: 16.7 million
Maximum Colors On-Screen: 4,096
3D Branch: 96 MB Vertex Memory, 16 MB maximum Texture Memory
2D Sprite Branch: 60 frames per second animation, 128 MB Character Memory

The Hyper Neo-Geo 64 looks like it could've been really good at 2D. Did this system really have 128MB of RAM for character sprites? Or am I reading that wrong? That would be really crazy if true.

 

[Atolm]

I always wondered what 2D capabilities the system had. I know the cartridges were huge (like 3gbit huge).

Maybe a 2D title would have fared better, because when I saw the first Samurai game all I could think was about how poorly it looked compared to VF3.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

That racing game looks pretty fun. I'd by it if it came to ps4, hundreds of other racers I'd do the same for.

Track design looks pretty good, better than half the arcade racers we had been getting last gen anyways.


Looks pretty decent, thanks for the video.

 

[Celine]

I would have gladly taken another year of NGPC. In particular, SvC MOTM, Last Blade, and Gals Fighters were utterly magnificent games that showed what could really be done on that hardware. SvC MOTM being by far my favorite game to come out of the SNK/Capcom partnership. I would have loved if they had supported the NGPC another year; we might have had a chance at a SvC2, another Samurai Shodown, a Garou port, etc.

Utterly fantastic system.

Magician Lord sequel/spinoff too, maybe.

 

[sörine]

Magician Lord sequel/spinoff too, maybe.

Crystalis II... in my dreams...

 

[Loona]

Magician Lord sequel/spinoff too, maybe.

http://www.gamekult.com/actu/magician-lord-la-suite-que-personne-na-vue-A104756.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEYkWjsIQ3k

 

[Persona7]

The arcades near me never even had these.

 

[Emperor Bohe]

Wild Ambition did get a US release on PSOne though? Or are you talking about the original HNG64 ver. of WA?

yep, i own it. it's on my shelf right now.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Probably the same thing they were with KOF XIV.


My Pizza Hut had Road's Edge. It was pretty cool at the time, but I was 9, so everything was cool. What was not cool was that it replaced a Neo Geo cab that had Samsho, Crossed Swords, Cyber Lip, and Baseball Stars 2.

 

[AmyS]

SNK apparently had a 32-bit home console in the works, some years *before* the Hyper Neo Geo 64 arcade system.

The 32-bit 'Neo Star':

http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/Neo_Star

SNK also supposedly had specs for another home system in the works, years *after* the Hyper NG64.
The "128-bit" class SNK Millennium. Seemingly a 6th generation console to compete with PS2 and Xbox.

.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050207214409/http://www.vr-zone.com/Home/news48/news48.htm

Such a system probably would've made PS2 and OG Xbox look like Genesis and SNES vs original the Neo Geo.

 

[MrCunningham]

SNK apparently had a 32-bit home console in the works, some years *before* the Hyper Neo Geo 64 arcade system. The 'Neo Star':

http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/Neo_Star

SNK also supposedly had a class home system in the works, years *after* the Hyper NG64. The SNK Millennium.
Seemingly a 6th generation console to compete with PS2 and Xbox.

.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050207214409/http://www.vr-zone.com/Home/news48/news48.htm

Such a system probably would've made PS2 and OG Xbox look like Genesis and SNES vs original the Neo Geo.

Is that 128 Megabytes of ram or Megabits? Probably a typo and they mean MB. There's no way they would equip a system with a 900MHz CPU with so little RAM. If those specs were anything close to real, than this machine would have smoked everything from generation 6. Weird that it would have a cartridge slot. BC for original Neo Geo games?

Also the arcade styled pad with a specs sheet like that makes no sense. They would need a dual analogue pad with that godly clicky stick in replacement of a D-pad.