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What we know so far about the Nintendo NX with sources 2.0

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daakusedo

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Arcadegirl calls him out on his "stupid rumours", then gives him this new info and he makes new rumours. What are they even doing lol
 

Skittzo0413

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Dat Zhuge's answer at the bottom.

Yeah Zhuge seems (rightfully) pissed...

I wouldn't trust any of 10k's sources until one of them has actually been proven right, which, at this point, doesn't seem to have happened. He may be well intentioned but I doubt he has a very rigorous screening process for his "sources" especially after using tweets not even directed at him as a "source."

In summary, we still know absolutely nothing!
 

PtM

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this thread is steering into rumour lockdown, just sayan.
 

Peru

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Total BS. There is absolutely no way Nintendo rented that massive amount of floor space at E3 just for Zelda. It makes absolutely no sense. It was clearly supposed to be the NX blowout. 10k is absolutely ridiculous at this point.

That's not the case as has been talked about with many other examples. It's in their interest to rent the same floor space they always do, because if they don't, they may lose the right to it and others snatch it up for future years.

It's perfectly possible Nintendo knew the NX wouldn't be at this year's E3 when they registered.
 

KingSnake

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Why is this even discussed? Zelda was still scheduled for 2016 at the last investor meeting before this one. So that whole theory of this 2017 launch being planned since long time is a whole pile of crap.
 

Vena

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Based on that other AMD/Polaris thread for the Neo, wouldn't we be led to believe that the 2014 x86 and gaming application was the Neo contract.
 
Nov 8, 2010
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That's not the case as has been talked about with many other examples. It's in their interest to rent the same floor space they always do, because if they don't, they may lose the right to it and others snatch it up for future years.

It's perfectly possible Nintendo knew the NX wouldn't be at this year's E3 when they registered.
Floor space is always rented before any concept for an exhibition is planned. Anyone reading anything into the size of the floor space is ridiculous.
Especially when continued attendance is asumed/planned.
 

thefro

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Here's a pretty relevant new video from Trev/SuperMetalDave 64:

Nintendo NX "Insiders" Wasting Your Time

In summary, he's saying that our "insider" friends should be reporting things they can back with hard information or other research, not making ambiguous, vague statements.

Based on that other AMD/Polaris thread for the Neo, wouldn't we be led to believe that the 2014 x86 and gaming application was the Neo contract.

That article had a lot of factual errors (talking about NX & Neo getting revealed at the Tokyo Game Show). Also the note about the CPU being improved and not a Jaguar chip contradicts what Digital Foundry/Giant Bomb reported about the spec sheet.

I wouldn't take that as fact, especially since we can't vouch for the reliability of the site.
 

DownGrader

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It's not worthy of a separate thread, but there was a presentation by Ed Valiente Nintendo's business development manager, on DevGAMM conference in Moscow, and, as one of attendees reports, one of requirements for getting a NX devkit is having a strongbox or a secure room.

Pretty usual requirement for providing confidential hardware, so nothing really interesting here... but it seems we have another confirmation of NX devkits being dispatched/ready for dispatch.

https://twitter.com/retropcan/status/730738830291173377

http://devgamm.com/moscow2016/sessions/
 

Father_Brain

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Why is this even discussed? Zelda was still scheduled for 2016 at the last investor meeting before this one. So that whole theory of this 2017 launch being planned since long time is a whole pile of crap.

No, you see, the two delays were totally unrelated. They were just going to undercut the NX version of Zelda by launching it on Wii U months earlier. Makes perfect sense!
 

Eradicate

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Apr 20, 2011
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Would be January 2017 IMO at the latest, by expecting shortage if demands is in line with usual Nintendo launch numbers.

I'm no expert in logistics, but I often read storage cost a lot. IIRC the Wii and/or Wii U started production during September for their holiday launch.
So at max I'll say January, but giving the March date is a delay compared to the previous schedule, the November month could be the one where production begins - but not the latest possible option.

Wow, that's crazy it could be so close to launch! But, like you said, storing these things costs extra money for them. Big balancing act all around! Thanks for the information!

ARM forecasted having mobile chips more powerful than the X-Box one and PS4 by the end of 2017. I don't know if they'll match it by the time the NX is ready, but they should be able to come close.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/02/16/m...playstation-4-xbox-one-in-2017-arm-forecasts/

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...raphically-equivalent-to-ps4-xbox-one-by-2017

There are already ARM chips used in phones which outperform PS4 and XBO's CPUs on certain metrics, and an 8-core A72 chip on 14nm/16nm in a console environment (i.e. actively cooled) should substantially outperform them by pretty much any measure.

Edit: I just read the articles, and it seems they're talking about GPUs. I suppose in theory we could have tablets approximating XBO's theoretical performance by around then (going by the rate of growth of Apple's iPad GPUs, although they're PowerVR, not ARM's Mali designs), but tablets aren't handhelds, and theoretical performance in Gflops doesn't necessarily translate to real performance.

That's incredible information you two! I wouldn't have thought it'd be that close or exceeding them already. Any newer information/expectations that Nintendo will go this route instead of x86?

Well we now now one more thing about nx.
No disney infinity support coming :/

More room for amiibos I guess! Maybe Nintendo will team up with them to make exclusive things?

No NX questions on the EA conference call, but the "mid-cycle console upgrades" question did have a bit of information you can read into. I'll post the transcript once it's up. It basically supports my point I've been making about Frostbite/Ignite making it easy for them to support new platforms with less risk.

Also the new Star Wars Battlefront is coming in 2017. I'll be shocked if that's not a NX title since there should be an audience match there.

That's great to hear! I really think they'll be able to get these engines going on NX to make porting easier. It's starting to really come down to engine support, but the current information (Frostbite/Ignite, Silicon Studio's products, UE4) seems to be suggesting the system itself may be strong enough for the popular ones. Worth keeping an eye on!

They announced another semi-custom win at the end of Q2 2015 as well (although no comments on architecture or application).

Basically we've got three semi-custom chips to consider:


  1. x86 - Started development ~Q3 2014
  2. ARM - Started development ~Q3 2014
  3. ? - Started development ~Q2 2015
One of the first two was described as "beyond gaming", so hence we can assume that the other 2014 chip is dedicated to gaming. When the two 2014 wins were announced they stated that they expected manufacturing to start in 2016, so the chip(s) ramping the second half of this year are probably them.

Then the list of possible partners, in roughly descending order of likelihood:


  • Sony (PS4K) - With PS4K all but confirmed, one of the above pretty much has to be on the chip that's powering it. It's an x86 chip and my money's on the 2015 design win, but it's possible that it's the 2014 x86 win.
  • Nintendo (home console) - Heavily assumed to be powered by an AMD chip, but we can't be 100% sure. Could be x86 or ARM. I would put it down as one of the 2014 wins (as that's when you'd expect design work to start on the SoC for a console with a planned late-2016 launch), but it could be 2015 if an early 2017 launch was planned all along (or AMD's quicker than we think at designing these).
  • Nintendo (handheld) - This is getting into slightly more questionable territory, as AMD has never actually designed a chip suitable for a handheld. However, with Nintendo seemingly moving towards a shared library between home console and handheld, there's a substantial advantage to them using the same GPU architecture on each, and in theory AMD's getting to the point where it can provide a competitive chip in a ~2W envelope, with ARM and Polaris on 14nm. It would be a first for Nintendo to use such a cutting-edge SoC in a handheld, though. It's also worth keeping in mind that this could loosely be described as "beyond gaming", not because the end product is used for much other than games, but because it gets AMD a foothold in the ultra-low TDP category used in phones and tablets.
  • Apple (iMac) - It's been rumoured that Apple will be using an AMD APU in their 2017 iMacs, which some people have taken to be an indication that one of the semi-custom wins is with them. It would certainly make sense for Apple to switch to AMD for their iMacs; Intel have dropped Iris Pro options from their desktop lineup, leaving Apple without any IGP options which can adequately handle the 4K and 5K screens. (It seems Intel are offering Iris Pro with desktop Skylake chips now, but AMD could still have the advantage on price) AMD could obviously provide Apple with something with the integrated GPU performance they require. However, there's no reason to believe Apple would need a semi-custom chip for this. AMD should have a variety of off-the-shelf Zen-based APUs available from 2017 onwards which would suit Apple, so there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of logic to pay for a semi-custom chip.
  • Various (HPC) - AMD still has a surprisingly big foothold in the HPC sector, given how long it's been since they've designed competitive cores for HPC. Since then we've also seen a massive growth in the use of GPUs as co-processors in the sector, so in theory a HPC APU, with plenty of Zen cores and a powerful Polaris/Vega GPU on the same die with a helping of HBM2 on the side, may be the kind of product they'd make on their return to the market. That said, there's no particular reason to assume that it would be a semi-custom chip, as even if they were, let's say, designing a chip for a large government-funded supercomputer, they would still generally own the IP themselves (and it would usually be publicised, for that matter). It suppose there's an outside chance of a large company like Facebook or Google hiring them to design a chip for a Skynet style AI supercomputer, but I wouldn't bet on it.
  • Microsoft (Xbox 1.5) - A lot of people seem to be assuming that MS are going to introduce a mid-gen update to the XBO, but as far as I can tell that's pretty much purely based on the idea that Sony's doing it, so MS has to be doing it too. There haven't been any reliable reports of its existence within the media (despite bundles of info on PS4K), but more importantly it's simply an impossibility if Nintendo is using an AMD chip for NX (as NX and PS4K would then make up two of the three semi-custom wins, meaning the last has to be "beyond gaming", and therefore not an Xbox).
  • Other - The last possibility is simply that it's something that hasn't been rumoured and none of us would think of. Perhaps Magic Leap are using an AMD semi-custom chip in whatever they're cooking up. Perhaps it's for some kind of military device. Perhaps it's a TV SoC. Who the hell knows?
I see two somewhat plausible scenarios:


  1. x86 - Q3 2014 - Apple/HPC/Other
  2. ARM - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX
  3. x86 - Q2 2015 - Sony PS4K
or

  1. x86 - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX Home
  2. ARM - Q3 2014 - Nintendo NX Handheld
  3. x86 - Q2 2015 - Sony PS4K
In the first you could in theory have NX on x86 and an ARM "beyond gaming" chip going to someone else, but it doesn't really matter much one way or the other.

The second one explains why the first two design wins started design work at exactly the same time, although in this case the NX handheld APU would have to qualify as "beyond gaming", which may be a bit of a stretch.

That's basically my take on it, anyway.

Great post with guesses and timelines! I'm really thinking at least one of Nintendo's devices is going to be ARM after all!




Oh 10k...we probably ought to not talk about rumors too much here though! If things he says can be found elsewhere in a format not done as a rumor (like some Spanish PR thing or what have you), than that'd probably be preferred. I really want this thread to be available to gather sources!

It's not worthy of a separate thread, but there was a presentation by Ed Valiente Nintendo's business development manager, on DevGAMM conference in Moscow, and, as one of attendees reports, one of requirements for getting a NX devkit is having a strongbox or a secure room.

Pretty usual requirement for providing confidential hardware, so nothing really interesting here... but it seems we have another confirmation of NX devkits being dispatched/ready for dispatch.

https://twitter.com/retropcan/status/730738830291173377

http://devgamm.com/moscow2016/sessions/

Now THAT'S interesting! Cool find DownGrader!

So, this sounds like a physical/hardware devkit and not just a software environment I guess?
 

Gamer @ Heart

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Total BS. There is absolutely no way Nintendo rented that massive amount of floor space at E3 just for Zelda. It makes absolutely no sense. It was clearly supposed to be the NX blowout. 10k is absolutely ridiculous at this point.

You are making alot of assumptions with zero proof except your gut vs someone who has actually heard things from people in positions to actually k ow those things.

If what he says about this Zelda being a turning point for the series, it could easily justify the floor space. Floor space, which I emphasise should NEVER be used as evidence of anything. Half of that both is going to be lines to play the damn thing.
 

Mpl90

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It's not worthy of a separate thread, but there was a presentation by Ed Valiente Nintendo's business development manager, on DevGAMM conference in Moscow, and, as one of attendees reports, one of requirements for getting a NX devkit is having a strongbox or a secure room.

Pretty usual requirement for providing confidential hardware, so nothing really interesting here... but it seems we have another confirmation of NX devkits being dispatched/ready for dispatch.

https://twitter.com/retropcan/status/730738830291173377

http://devgamm.com/moscow2016/sessions/

This should be a hint that NX devkit's spread distribution for indie developers (i.e. outside of the "key partners") should happen soon enough.
 

MuchoMalo

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Arcadegirl calls him out on his "stupid rumours", then gives him this new info and he makes new rumours. What are they even doing lol

I think they both need to shut up. 10k is obviously full of it. Not to call out Emily or be mean to her, but I also highly doubt that she has a source with information on where the chip is being fabricated 10 months before launch while also knowing that there aren't yield issues. I think she's just shooting down anything that she deems too optimistic and maybe heard that 10k's description of the GPU is wrong (causing her to say "GPU is wrong"). She would need to know Nintendo's engineers or people in quite high places to know some of this info. Even a developer would have no reason to know exactly which node the chip is on, much less where it's being made.

Simply put, I think that both of them are stretching the truth and/or being lied to.
 

AmyS

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Read it while eating a bucket full of salt



10k said:
Polaris 10 is actually the more powerful of the two and is aimed at high end graphics cards for desktops

Just because Polaris 10 is the larger of the two Polaris chips, doesn't make it high end. - Polaris 10 seems to be designed for the mid-to-upper-midrange sweet spot of the market. Polaris 11 is for mid-to-lowend notebooks and slim ultrabooks. AMD's highend is Vega 10 (aka Greenland) coming in H1 2017 along with a smaller Vega chip. I don't see Polaris 10 cards taking on Nvidia's GP104 based GTX 1080, or even 1070.
 

thefro

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This should be a hint that NX devkit's spread distribution for indie developers (i.e. outside of the "key partners") should happen soon enough.

Right, the fact that they're even talking about how to get a NX dev kit in a conference means we're getting close.

Also if they're out pitching stuff to Russian indies we can deduce that the people at third parties who actually make the decisions know what's up.
 

Dark Cloud

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I thought we were going to get a lot more talk about the NX with the investors meetings, but it seems pretty quiet and underwhelming.

Just bring E3 please! I'm ready for Nintendos next investors meeting.
 

MK_768

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This is not even close to be a source, should not belong in this thread.

Also, you should stop feeding the need for attention of 10k, he was a nice poster before he got into this. He really needs some kind of an intervention.

This. I defended the guy before but he's just become pretty sad. Clearly wants the attention. Also, he's too cocksure of his opinions and doesn't shut up. He'll talk about anything he hears.

I'm quite thankful nobody creates threads over his nonsense. Even posting his stuff should be banned here, imo.
 

DownGrader

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Also if they're out pitching stuff to Russian indies we can deduce that the people at third parties who actually make the decisions know what's up.

It's worth noting that the main topic of the speech was publishing for Wii U and Nintendo 3DS, and a bit of info about NX was probably said during Q&A session.
 

maxcriden

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You are making alot of assumptions with zero proof except your gut vs someone who has actually heard things from people in positions to actually k ow those things.

If what he says about this Zelda being a turning point for the series, it could easily justify the floor space. Floor space, which I emphasise should NEVER be used as evidence of anything. Half of that both is going to be lines to play the damn thing.

We can't say there is someone who has actually heard things from people in positions to know things since nothing he's said has yet been confirmed. He could be being misled.
 

MuchoMalo

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Here's a pretty relevant new video from Trev/SuperMetalDave 64:

Nintendo NX "Insiders" Wasting Your Time

In summary, he's saying that our "insider" friends should be reporting things they can back with hard information or other research, not making ambiguous, vague statements.

I agree 100%. This is getting out of hand, and everyone is being inconsistent here.

I thought we were going to get a lot more talk about the NX with the investors meetings, but it seems pretty quiet and underwhelming.

Just bring E3 please! I'm ready for Nintendos next investors meeting.

We're not getting anything at E3.
 

Dark Cloud

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It's nice to see somebody has it in them to call these "insiders" out especially when they're so vague and wrong half the time. So many of them just want attention it's getting a little sad. Atleast SMD64 was pretty direct with his info. I like Emily though.

I agree 100%. This is getting out of hand, and everyone is being inconsistent here.



We're not getting anything at E3.

When did I say we're getting anything at E3? I've known this since Kimishima said it a few weeks ago...
 

Jackano

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Lmao 10k has a website?
I will never call a wordpress.com instance a "website".

Based on that other AMD/Polaris thread for the Neo, wouldn't we be led to believe that the 2014 x86 and gaming application was the Neo contract.

Polaris talk should never existed in the first place, if you want to be serious. Following a discussion on E. Rodger's twitter yesterday, I searched myself for old Wii/Wii U threads just to compare.
And I was mind blown on how much this was similar to the current polaris discussion.


A couple weeks before E3 2011, we got the actual UBI leaks from 01net/IGN:
Additionally, IGN has learned that the system will be based on a revamped version of AMD's R700 GPU architecture, not AMD's Fusion technology as previously believed, which will, as previously reported, out perform the PlayStation 3's NVIDIA 7800GTX-based processor.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427412

Wii U leaks were all about Ideaman in my mind, so I didn't remembered that Fusion rumors at all.
Checking wikipedias and NeoGAF about that subject, I came across this speculation thread:

Based on the info they posted, it seems very likely they were talking about the Wii 2 and it will release fall 2012 powered by the AMD Trinity (or possibly Krishna or Komodo)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510

Bonus: Steph Colbert truely nailed it regarding 3rd parties, but was heavily misunderstanding Nintendo like all tech-GAFfers in a Nintendo hardware specs thread.
Because if Nintendo really is planning to use a GPU made back in 2008 and one with only 512-1gb or ram, they can kiss multiplatform support goodbye this upcoming generation once again.


tl;dr: So in the end what was the rumors/speculations threads up to?
The new AMD 2011 architecture called Fusion, introducing 32nm, releasing merely the same year as the new Nintendo harware.
Wii U ended up with R700 based GPU from 2008, and 40nm.

I find this laughably similar to the recent discussions and rumors about the new AMD 2016 architecture called Polaris, introducing 14nm, and releasing merely the same year as the new Nintendo hardware.

So IMO if people want to be serious and have a realistic discussion, you should talk about the chips that were put on the market early in 2015.
 

MK_768

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10k's descent into madness has been a sight to behold.

But completely predictable the first time he said he was gonna stop trying to dig up info but then continued to do so. And now we are here.

I don't know why Emily bothers with him. Maybe she is trying to help him, but I got the feeling she is growing annoyed with his incessant blathering. I may be wrong but it's just how it looks to me.

Also, he still meanders around here so I expect him to get defensive on twitter about what we say. I suggest we stray away from talking about him so we don't derail the thread.
 

thefro

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tl;dr: So in the end what was the rumors/speculations threads up to?
The new AMD 2011 architecture called Fusion, introducing 32nm, releasing merely the same year as the new Nintendo harware.
Wii U ended up with R700 based GPU from 2008, and 40nm.

I find this laughably similar to the recent discussions and rumors about the new AMD 2016 architecture called Polaris, introducing 14nm, and releasing merely the same year as the new Nintendo hardware.

So IMO if people want to be serious and have a realistic discussion, you should talk about the chips that were put on the market early in 2015.

The difference is Polaris is faster, with less power draw/heat than AMD's 2014-2015 chips, and is also rumored to be significantly cheaper than other current chips with equivalent performance. I think the benefits of going with that chip for Nintendo outweigh using older AMD tech, unless they're targeting a sub-XB1-level machine (which would mean all the other smoke around the console lately is wrong).
 

Peterc

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Did 10k closed their wordpress site?
So nx info will shown at Tokyo show in sept?

Do we have new rumors beside the power of the console?
 

MacTag

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The difference is Polaris is faster, with less power draw/heat than AMD's 2014-2015 chips, and is also rumored to be significantly cheaper than other current chips with equivalent performance. I think the benefits of going with that chip for Nintendo outweigh using older AMD tech, unless they're targeting a sub-XB1-level machine (which would mean all the other smoke around the console lately is wrong).
I'd also contend looking at Nintendo's architecture design approach with Wii U probably isn't the best indicator for what they're doing with NX. Not that I'm not skeptical of GCN4/Polaris but I don't think this alone is really great grounds to totally dismiss it either.
 

Peterc

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Where has it been said about TGS? I thought Nintendo usually skips it.

Rumour: Nintendo NX To Be Unveiled At Tokyo Game Show?
We’ve got the Tokyo Game Show coming up in September and online publication VR World claims that the Nintendo NX will be unveiled to the world during the show. The very same publication also claims that Sony’s PlayStation NEO will also be showcased during the event. Of course, this is just a rumour and nothing concrete has been confirmed. The Nintendo NX will launch in March 2017 worldwide.

https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/12/rumour-nintendo-nx-to-be-unveiled-at-tokyo-game-show/

I got it from here, thought it was already posted
 

MuchoMalo

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I will never call a wordpress.com instance a "website".



Polaris talk should never existed in the first place, if you want to be serious. Following a discussion on E. Rodger's twitter yesterday, I searched myself for old Wii/Wii U threads just to compare.
And I was mind blown on how much this was similar to the current polaris discussion.


A couple weeks before E3 2011, we got the actual UBI leaks from 01net/IGN:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427412

Wii U leaks were all about Ideaman in my mind, so I didn't remembered that Fusion rumors at all.
Checking wikipedias and NeoGAF about that subject, I came across this speculation thread:


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427510

Bonus: Steph Colbert truely nailed it regarding 3rd parties, but was heavily misunderstanding Nintendo like all tech-GAFfers in a Nintendo hardware specs thread.



tl;dr: So in the end what was the rumors/speculations threads up to?
The new AMD 2011 architecture called Fusion, introducing 32nm, releasing merely the same year as the new Nintendo harware.
Wii U ended up with R700 based GPU from 2008, and 40nm.

I find this laughably similar to the recent discussions and rumors about the new AMD 2016 architecture called Polaris, introducing 14nm, and releasing merely the same year as the new Nintendo hardware.

So IMO if people want to be serious and have a realistic discussion, you should talk about the chips that were put on the market early in 2015.

Well, then you also have to throw away any discussion on NX even being close Xbone, since Nintendo making a 80+W console after Wii (15-20W) and Wii U (30-35W) is laughable. It'll be half as powerful as PS4 in the absolute best case if it's not 14nm. Besides that, there turned out to be a bunch of reasons for why they stuck with R700 and 40nm, such as how early it was designed and the use of eDRAM (only available on 40nm) to help with memory bandwidth and backwards compatibility. None of these are considerations to make today. Also, Fusion wasn't even an architecture; it was just the codename for AMD's first APUs. I also don't recall that talk really being taken seriously. Now, the HD 4850 talk that followed? That was taken seriously.

Sorry, but I'm not just going to trust everything that Emily says at face value (though I doubt that she's flat-out lying). Based on what we know about Nintendo, either her assertions on architecture and node or her statements about it having "good specs" are inaccurate, stretched, or based more on preconceived notions or her own opinion (e.g., "it can't be Polaris because Nintendo only uses old stuff," or "anything better than Wii U counts as good specs"). Based on her recent "information" including things that it's almost impossible for her to know, I'd assume that it's the former and she's only being as assertive as she is to avoid this situation due to not actually understanding what Polaris is. She just thinks it a new, cutting-edge GPU and nothing more. Polaris 11 should be around PS4 in terms of power if it's cut down to the point that it would be affordable for Nintendo, while allowing Nintendo to make make a small, quiet console like Wii or Wii U.

So, basically, you have to throw out one of her statements no matter what. You'll probably take the entry-level 28nm route, but I'm sticking to the entry-level 14nm route until proven otherwise. Of course, if she's right on both fronts and we end up with something on-par with current-gen using GCN 1.2, it really doesn't make a difference to me since I'll be right about the power ballpark anyway.
 

Angry Chair

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Feb 2, 2016
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Here's a pretty relevant new video from Trev/SuperMetalDave 64:

Nintendo NX "Insiders" Wasting Your Time

In summary, he's saying that our "insider" friends should be reporting things they can back with hard information or other research, not making ambiguous, vague statements.
Thank you Trev but it's not going to stop them from doing it. Liam and Emily like watching us little people freak out over their vagueness than actually posting solid information.
Sorry, I don't see any direct reference to Emily in the article. Not indirect either.
Emily was clearly his "source" on it. Just read this: https://twitter.com/Tenkay23/status/730475395208876033.
 

The_Lump

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Feb 11, 2012
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Total BS. There is absolutely no way Nintendo rented that massive amount of floor space at E3 just for Zelda. It makes absolutely no sense. It was clearly supposed to be the NX blowout. 10k is absolutely ridiculous at this point.

Whilst I'm not debating whether it's BS - I don't think the floor space rented at e3 discounts the possibility that 2017 has been known for 'some time'
 
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