What's going on in France?

Nov 1, 2017
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#1
Not really seeing much on the news about it.. are people REALLY that pissed off about gas prices? Is it a push back against globalism?

I don’t really know to be honest, keen to hear people thoughts.
 
Feb 22, 2018
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#4
Not business as usual. This is akin to the 1800's in scale and severity. Over 100,000 determined/organized men have overwhelmed the state security apparatus. They aren't randomly rioting in the streets. Entire police departments have given up and joined their cause in solidarity and are providing escort. At this point, they can freely prance into French government buildings and lynch the politicians. Macron is at their mercy and he has to meet their demands or his government will be toppled in a people's revolution.

The general lack of western media attention, given the severity of this (the political establishment of France is walking the plank as we speak), is telling.
 
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Nov 1, 2017
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#5
Not business as usual. This is akin to the 1800's in scale and severity. Over 100,000 determined/organized men have overwhelmed the state security apparatus. They aren't randomly rioting in the streets. Entire police departments have given up and joined their cause in solidarity and are providing escort. At this point, they can freely prance into French government buildings and lynch the politicians. Macron is at their mercy and he has to meet their demands or his government will be toppled in a people's revolution.

The general lack of western media attention, given the severity of this (the political establishment of France is walking the plank as we speak), is telling.
Yes I've been surprised this isn't getting that much media attention to be honest (hence the thread). If it's as it seems with the police and paramedics joining the protesters It must be serious.
 

Asympathetique

so it's not nice
Apr 2, 2013
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#6
Not business as usual. This is akin to the 1800's in scale and severity. Over 100,000 determined/organized men have overwhelmed the state security apparatus. They aren't randomly rioting in the streets. Entire police departments have given up and joined their cause in solidarity and are providing escort. At this point, they can freely prance into French government buildings and lynch the politicians. Macron is at their mercy and he has to meet their demands or his government will be toppled in a people's revolution.

The general lack of western media attention, given the severity of this (the political establishment of France is walking the plank as we speak), is telling.
Quite honestly it is less suprising as it seems when you consider the media attention our government has secured over the last three (3) years. People have gotten accustomed.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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#7
Quite honestly it is less suprising as it seems when you consider the media attention our government has secured over the last three (3) years. People have gotten accustomed.
I do see France in the news quite a bit, as long as its France saying or doing something negative re: Trump.

Though I'm surprised I have to search for news about the protests, they seem like big news!
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
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#8
Not business as usual. This is akin to the 1800's in scale and severity. Over 100,000 determined/organized men have overwhelmed the state security apparatus. They aren't randomly rioting in the streets. Entire police departments have given up and joined their cause in solidarity and are providing escort. At this point, they can freely prance into French government buildings and lynch the politicians. Macron is at their mercy and he has to meet their demands or his government will be toppled in a people's revolution.
Yeah sorry but that's just not true. Or maybe you missed the part when thousands of policemen fought violent demonstrators the past two Saturdays so that they couldn't go near the Elysée ? Or arrested around 400 people for violent actions ? Some policement showed signs of support to peaceful demonstrators, but they're still doing their job.

Here's a quick rundown of the situation in France :
- a trend started on social networks to complain about the rise of taxes on fuel (those rises especially target diesel, for environmental reasons). They created the "yellow vest" movement, and people started to put their safety jacket under their windshield as a gesture of protest. Petitions were started and gathered around 1 million signatures.
- a first nation-wide demonstration was planned on a Saturday, where yellow vests (YV) all around the country would block roads and roundabouts. They were mostly non-politicized people (many claim they never voted and demonstrated for the first time), of all kinds of backgrounds, age and social class, but with a major following in rural areas where the use of cars is part of daily life. It was a relative success (around 300 000 people all around the country), in Paris some groups tried to march to the Elysée ("French White House"), but were blocked by the police.
- the following Saturday, the same event was organized. It went down to 200 000 people nation-wide, in Paris demonstrators got the greenlight to demonstrate near the Eiffel Tower, but went to the Champs Elysées instead. It quickly degenerated and some people started raising barricades, destroying shops and fighting the police.
- finally last Saturday, same event gathered around between 100 000 and 200000 people (not sure about the numbers, but still going down). The government allowed demonstrating on the Champs Elysées but only if people went through individual controls for weapons. A few hundreds followed the procedure and peacefully demonstrated there, but thousands of other people stayed outside the "fan zone" and went straight to fight the police (even before the demonstration officially started actually). They fought mostly around the Arc de Triomphe and cause some significant damage in the whole area, burning cars and destroying shops. The investigations are running, but many kinds of people seem to have taken part to those fights : far left, far right, people from poorer suburbs, but also many YV members coming from the "province" (parts of France far from Paris)

It's also worth mentioning that polls shows that the population "is favourable/understands" the YV, although very few seem to take part to the demonstration. So we get the paradox of a disorganized and not that large movement, with both pacific and violent actions, no real claim except "we need more help and less taxes", creating a national crisis, with all parties and organizations opposed to Macron fanning the flames.
The government has tried to start negotiations, but it's quite hard since there's no official leader (and some of those who came out of the group for a peaceful resolution got threatened by other YV who don't want negotiations but a full capitulation of both the government and the president). Also they made it clear that they didn't want to cancel their whole fiscal strategy, which doesn't help (but actually makes sense IMO).
 
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Mar 14, 2012
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#9
NPR has a fantastic article on it that reports on many frequently asked question into the protest.

Link: https://www.npr.org/2018/12/03/6728...-yellow-vest-protesters-and-what-do-they-want

Subjects:
Who are the members of the yellow vest movement and how did it emerge?

How did these protests turn violent?

What do the protesters want?

Why do they wear yellow vests?

What's the public reaction?

How is the government responding

What are the implications of this crisis for Macron?
 
Mar 12, 2013
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#10
Yeah sorry but that's just not true. Or maybe you missed the part when thousands of policemen fought violent demonstrators the past two Saturdays so that they couldn't go near the Elysée ? Or arrested around 400 people for violent actions ? Some policement showed signs of support to peaceful demonstrators, but they're still doing their job.
I was looking where the reports of police joining the protesters en masse came from and was totally not suprised it was rt.com, zerohedge and youtube channels pushing a 'The Western NWO Is Doomed' narrative.
 
Feb 22, 2018
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#11
Yeah sorry but that's just not true. Or maybe you missed the part when thousands of policemen fought violent demonstrators the past two Saturdays so that they couldn't go near the Elysée ? Or arrested around 400 people for violent actions ?
And now there are more protesters on the streets. No, this one can't be swept under the MSM rug. If this was happening in Russia it would be receiving 24/7 coverage on every news network. For such a major country, only crickets in regards to France.
 
Jun 20, 2018
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#12
They shipped off the jobs of the middle and low class and tried to import finance muh globalism style, meaning you have a big low class with no jobs or jobs in the city meaning they need cars and drive everyday, meaning increase on fuel price hits the people in rural areas the hardest that already got fucked over by politicians over the last two decades.
I hope it tanks macron lol
Btw this yellow west stuff has now some police and ambulance workers join them lol but yeah it also has something to do with that france stands up sooner to protest than anyone else that is also true.

 
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Likes: Senior
Oct 27, 2017
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#13
They shipped off the jobs of the middle and low class and tried to import finance muh globalism style, meaning you have a big low class with no jobs or jobs in the city meaning they need cars and drive everyday, meaning increase on fuel price hits the people the hardest that already got fucked over by piece of shit politicians over the last two decades.
I hope it tanks macron.
Yes.
It is mostly white working class from rural areas. Well, that is how it started. (Rural area working class is mostly white for the simple reason that most migrants move to urban areas, not "middle-of-buttfuck" out in the sticks. Just like in the US).
Just like the rural white working class under Obama, they see their jobs being exported to china or the third world and they see their city elite globalist leaders telling them, just like Obama did,
the works are gone and are not coming back.
The similarities to the forgotten majority of deplorable white men in flyover-country that elected Trump is very striking.


Now, the urban elite, who have access to public transport, for perhaps good reasons, are taxing these white hillbillys on their Diesel tax.
Still, the reality is that this does hurt rural hillbillies dis-proportionally harder than elite urbanites. You don't have light rail, subways or even bus service in most of "middle-of-buttfuck" rural France.


There are some similarities to US 2016. We will see how Marcon will be able to navigate this.
It is basically the same forgotten demographics of rural poor that won the election for Trump. Though since France is not so super racial-focused as US we don't see the same racist accusations
on the people protesting as after Trumps election.
 
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Jun 20, 2018
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#14
If you are quiet and listen you can hear marie le pens laughter even outside of france lol but i dont think it will end macron it kinda should for the good of europe as a whole but i dont think it will, macron will just backtrack from the tax hike and get praise for it.
 
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Alx

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Jan 22, 2007
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#15
Yes.
It is mostly white working class from rural areas. Well, that is how it started. (Rural area working class is mostly white for the simple reason that most migrants move to urban areas, not "middle-of-buttfuck" out in the sticks. Just like in the US).
Just like the rural white working class under Obama, they see their jobs being exported to china or the third world and they see their city elite globalist leaders telling them, just like Obama did,
the works are gone and are not coming back.
.
That's much more complicated than that. It turns out that if you check the status of YV "activists", you'll notice that they are from very different backgrounds, bust most of them have a job. There are articles about the ones being put on trial for violences, and many even admit having a very decent situation. One common excuse you hear is "it's not for me, it's for all the poor people out there"
It turns out that it's mostly the working middle class complaining, and the working middle class did benefit from Macron policies (lowered salary and city taxes). There's nothing really rational about that movement, it's mostly "we're unhappy and it's all Macron's fault".
Now I'm not downplaying the difficulties of some of those people who aren't that fortunate, but there's no common trait among the YV, except that "they all own cars"
 

Alx

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Jan 22, 2007
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#16
If you are quiet and listen you can hear marie le pens laughter even outside of france lol but it.
I'm not sure she's laughing that much. She tried to piggy-back the movement, so did Melenchon, but both got kicked out. The thing is that their own audience was taken from them, the YV are so unstructured that they also reject extreme parties
 
Jun 20, 2018
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#17
That's much more complicated than that. It turns out that if you check the status of YV "activists", you'll notice that they are from very different backgrounds, bust most of them have a job. There are articles about the ones being put on trial for violences, and many even admit having a very decent situation. One common excuse you hear is "it's not for me, it's for all the poor people out there"
It turns out that it's mostly the working middle class complaining, and the working middle class did benefit from Macron policies (lowered salary and city taxes). There's nothing really rational about that movement, it's mostly "we're unhappy and it's all Macron's fault".
Now I'm not downplaying the difficulties of some of those people who aren't that fortunate, but there's no common trait among the YV, except that "they all own cars"
If you ask parisians that joined in because of the fun of it they obviously dont care because why would they, if you ask the people actually protesting they basically state they are not from the city but from rural places.

"But it is in smaller French towns and cities such as this one, nestled in the foothills near the Swiss border, where the anger is most deeply felt.
People here are dependent on their cars, and so they are especially frustrated with rising diesel prices and a new gasoline tax — the issue at the core of the national “yellow vest” movement that has produced marches and roadblocks throughout France in recent weeks."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...fca6fcf610c_story.html?utm_term=.5104083241d8
 
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Alx

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Jan 22, 2007
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#18
Yeah and one of those people working across the Swiss border was put on trial after the second event. Turns out he was earning 8000€ a month (nd probably didn't even paid his taxes in France, since he worked in Switzerland).
Not all YV are like him of course, but it shows how complex the profile of the YV are, and unclear their motivations. Except for "we want cheap gas " they have nothing in common.
 
Apr 8, 2009
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#20
Yeah sorry but that's just not true. Or maybe you missed the part when thousands of policemen fought violent demonstrators the past two Saturdays so that they couldn't go near the Elysée ? Or arrested around 400 people for violent actions ? Some policement showed signs of support to peaceful demonstrators, but they're still doing their job.

Here's a quick rundown of the situation in France :
- a trend started on social networks to complain about the rise of taxes on fuel (those rises especially target diesel, for environmental reasons). They created the "yellow vest" movement, and people started to put their safety jacket under their windshield as a gesture of protest. Petitions were started and gathered around 1 million signatures.
- a first nation-wide demonstration was planned on a Saturday, where yellow vests (YV) all around the country would block roads and roundabouts. They were mostly non-politicized people (many claim they never voted and demonstrated for the first time), of all kinds of backgrounds, age and social class, but with a major following in rural areas where the use of cars is part of daily life. It was a relative success (around 300 000 people all around the country), in Paris some groups tried to march to the Elysée ("French White House"), but were blocked by the police.
- the following Saturday, the same event was organized. It went down to 200 000 people nation-wide, in Paris demonstrators got the greenlight to demonstrate near the Eiffel Tower, but went to the Champs Elysées instead. It quickly degenerated and some people started raising barricades, destroying shops and fighting the police.
- finally last Saturday, same event gathered around between 100 000 and 200000 people (not sure about the numbers, but still going down). The government allowed demonstrating on the Champs Elysées but only if people went through individual controls for weapons. A few hundreds followed the procedure and peacefully demonstrated there, but thousands of other people stayed outside the "fan zone" and went straight to fight the police (even before the demonstration officially started actually). They fought mostly around the Arc de Triomphe and cause some significant damage in the whole area, burning cars and destroying shops. The investigations are running, but many kinds of people seem to have taken part to those fights : far left, far right, people from poorer suburbs, but also many YV members coming from the "province" (parts of France far from Paris)

It's also worth mentioning that polls shows that the population "is favourable/understands" the YV, although very few seem to take part to the demonstration. So we get the paradox of a disorganized and not that large movement, with both pacific and violent actions, no real claim except "we need more help and less taxes", creating a national crisis, with all parties and organizations opposed to Macron fanning the flames.
The government has tried to start negotiations, but it's quite hard since there's no official leader (and some of those who came out of the group for a peaceful resolution got threatened by other YV who don't want negotiations but a full capitulation of both the government and the president). Also they made it clear that they didn't want to cancel their whole fiscal strategy, which doesn't help (but actually makes sense IMO).
Thanks for providing actual facts and details rather than the wild-eyed bullshit you were responding to.
 
Feb 19, 2013
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#21
Yeah and one of those people working across the Swiss border was put on trial after the second event. Turns out he was earning 8000€ a month (nd probably didn't even paid his taxes in France, since he worked in Switzerland).
Not all YV are like him of course, but it shows how complex the profile of the YV are, and unclear their motivations. Except for "we want cheap gas " they have nothing in common.
Just curious, do you have any sources for your claims. I want to get a clear picture of this situation but I am inherently distrustful of your posts as they are merely handwaving the situation as masses of discontent violent middle class citizens storming the streets, which surely isn’t the case.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#22
Quite honestly it is less suprising as it seems when you consider the media attention our government has secured over the last three (3) years. People have gotten accustomed.
Come on now. It has nothing to do with that and everyone knows it. It's simple. Macron hates Trump and supports globalism / more taxes for climate change measures. The people in France are showing that like Trump, they also think Macron sucks, and are sick of being sold out for globalist dreams including high taxes for gas to combat climate change. So that means the MSM in the US will pretend no big deal as long as possible, because they gots to protect that narrative.
 
Nov 11, 2018
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#23
Yeah and one of those people working across the Swiss border was put on trial after the second event. Turns out he was earning 8000€ a month (nd probably didn't even paid his taxes in France, since he worked in Switzerland).
Not all YV are like him of course, but it shows how complex the profile of the YV are, and unclear their motivations. Except for "we want cheap gas " they have nothing in common.
Sounds like typical propaganda.
 
Jun 20, 2018
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#24
Obviously Macron was now forced to backtrack on his tax, it would have cost him his political future maybe it still did considering his ratings have not exactly been amazing before this even started.
 
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Apr 9, 2009
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#26
NPR has a fantastic article on it that reports on many frequently asked question into the protest.

Link: https://www.npr.org/2018/12/03/6728...-yellow-vest-protesters-and-what-do-they-want

Subjects:
Who are the members of the yellow vest movement and how did it emerge?

How did these protests turn violent?

What do the protesters want?

Why do they wear yellow vests?

What's the public reaction?

How is the government responding

What are the implications of this crisis for Macron?
This is a good rundown.
 
May 10, 2009
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#29
Come on now. It has nothing to do with that and everyone knows it. It's simple. Macron hates Trump and supports globalism / more taxes for climate change measures. The people in France are showing that like Trump, they also think Macron sucks, and are sick of being sold out for globalist dreams including high taxes for gas to combat climate change. So that means the MSM in the US will pretend no big deal as long as possible, because they gots to protect that narrative.
Only one I have heard in the US frame it that way was Rush Limbaugh, I don't know enough about what is going on to really have an opinion either way, though
 

Ke0

Member
Aug 10, 2012
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#30
So
-Higher taxes
-Increase in CoL
-Their perceived social injustices
-Protesting for those less fortunate than themselves

Man I wish Brits would do the same, we just grunt and take it and while telling each other to remain civil.
 
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Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
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#31
Just curious, do you have any sources for your claims. I want to get a clear picture of this situation but I am inherently distrustful of your posts as they are merely handwaving the situation as masses of discontent violent middle class citizens storming the streets, which surely isn’t the case.
Sure I do have sources, see below. But just to be clear, I'm not painting it as "masses of discontent violent middle class citizens storming the streets", quite the contrary actually. I was reacting to the first posts that painted it as a kind of armed insurrection, with people ready to parade Macron's head on a spear, while it's actually quite tame everything considered. Most of the YV are peaceful (many even stopped blocking traffic in order not to anger the population). But the violent minority has been increasingly violent indeed.
And even then it's far from the worst we've had in Paris. When there are true riots, it doesn't happen just one day a week, with people going home when it gets dark. It lasts for days and especially nights. Last time it happened (13 years ago), the state of emergency had to be declared.

Now for the source (in French, but it's an article of Le Monde about the first trials happening after "act 2", when shops on the Champs Elysées had their windows broken and sometimes looted).
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/arti...ris_5389025_3224.html?xtmc=comparution&xtcr=4
Je suis conseiller financier, je suis pas venu pour casser du policier ! Je voulais juste exprimer mon mécontentement.
– Quels sont vos revenus ?
– Je travaille en Suisse, je gagne environ 8 000 euros par mois.

Son jeune avocat commis d’office écarquille les yeux.
Et votre compagne ?
– Elle travaille aussi en Suisse. Elle gagne 3 500 euros. »
Quick translation :
"I'm a financial advisor, I didn't come to attack cops ! I just wanted to express my discontent.
- What's your income ?
- I work in Switzerland, I earn around 8K a month
(his appointed lawyer's eyes open wide)
- And your wife ?
- She works in Switzerland too. She earns 3500 euros."

Like I said earlier not everybody is in the same case ; among the people being tried that day were a guy working in farms for lodging, a 33 yo man living with his parents and working at the Futuroscope, a 22 yo guy earning 1500/mth painting buildings, a 35 yo getting 950 unemployment subventions, a 35 yo living at his mother's house and earning 1700 a month, a bus driver trainee, …

And from a similar article for last week-end, with similar level of diversity (nothing as extreme as the 8K guy though) :
https://www.lemonde.fr/police-justi...-on-n-a-pas-les-casseurs_5392318_1653578.html

There are poor people in there, and also "not so poor" ones, and everything in-between. That's why I said painting it as a specific social class complaining misses the mark, it's more complex and unique than that (especially if you consider that the people described in the articles were those angry enough to get into violent situations… there are thousands of other regular people that were just parading around with their yellow vest)
 
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Feb 19, 2013
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#33
Sure I do have sources, see below. But just to be clear, I'm not painting it as "masses of discontent violent middle class citizens storming the streets", quite the contrary actually. I was reacting to the first posts that painted it as a kind of armed insurrection, with people ready to parade Macron's head on a spear, while it's actually quite tame everything considered. Most of the YV are peaceful (many even stopped blocking traffic in order not to anger the population). But the violent minority has been increasingly violent indeed.
And even then it's far from the worst we've had in Paris. When there are true riots, it doesn't happen just one day a week, with people going home when it gets dark. It lasts for days and especially nights. Last time it happened (13 years ago), the state of emergency had to be declared.

Now for the source (in French, but it's an article of Le Monde about the first trials happening after "act 2", when shops on the Champs Elysées had their windows broken and sometimes looted).
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/arti...ris_5389025_3224.html?xtmc=comparution&xtcr=4


Quick translation :
"I'm a financial advisor, I didn't come to attack cops ! I just wanted to express my discontent.
- What's your income ?
- I work in Switzerland, I earn around 8K a month
(his appointed lawyer's eyes open wide)
- And your wife ?
- She works in Switzerland too. She earns 3500 euros."

Like I said earlier not everybody is in the same case ; among the people being tried that day were a guy working in farms for lodging, a 33 yo man living with his parents and working at the Futuroscope, a 22 yo guy earning 1500/mth painting buildings, a 35 yo getting 950 unemployment subventions, a 35 yo living at his mother's house and earning 1700 a month, a bus driver trainee, …

And from a similar article for last week-end, with similar level of diversity (nothing as extreme as the 8K guy though) :
https://www.lemonde.fr/police-justi...-on-n-a-pas-les-casseurs_5392318_1653578.html

There are poor people in there, and also "not so poor" ones, and everything in-between. That's why I said painting it as a specific social class complaining misses the mark, it's more complex and unique than that (especially if you consider that the people described in the articles were those angry enough to get into violent situations… there are thousands of other regular people that were just parading around with their yellow vest)
Thanks for the info. It seems as though some have joined these protests for political partisan reasons while the original movement seemed focused solely on the economic hardships resulting from aggressive taxation on fuel.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Moore Park Beach
#34
Yeah and one of those people working across the Swiss border was put on trial after the second event. Turns out he was earning 8000€ a month (nd probably didn't even paid his taxes in France, since he worked in Switzerland).
Sounds like MSM propaganda to smear the movement. Remember, they consists mostly of the same demographics that supports Trump.
This is how little trust I put in MSM these days.

There were 200.000 people in the beginning? Of course they will find someone that is not dirt poor.
Someone did a sloppy job deamonizing them. They surely should have been able to find someone "he beats his wife" in a group this big.
 
Likes: zenspider
Oct 27, 2017
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Moore Park Beach
#35
The Paris Climate Accord just plain sucks. It's a tax racket. The French don't want it, simply. Thank you, President Trump.
Markon just learned the "Jimmi Carter" lesson.
You can not ask people to "save the planet"/"end all wars"/"stop climate change"/... if it means people will have to make a sacrifice.

People, at large, will only do the right thing as long as it costs to no cost, to them. Costs shall always be carried by others.

Will MSM deamonize Markon for his failure of abiding to the Paris Climate Pact as they did when Trump pulled out?
 
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Jun 20, 2018
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#36
Sounds like MSM propaganda to smear the movement. Remember, they consists mostly of the same demographics that supports Trump.
This is how little trust I put in MSM these days.

There were 200.000 people in the beginning? Of course they will find someone that is not dirt poor.
Someone did a sloppy job deamonizing them. They surely should have been able to find someone "he beats his wife" in a group this big.
Well lets just say i have a hard time imagine getting this many people on the street to get beat up by cops if they are all indeed "rich" or well off even if it is in france lol
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
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#37
Sounds like MSM propaganda to smear the movement. Remember, they consists mostly of the same demographics that supports Trump.
Nobody gives a shit about Trump over here (and especially the YV, most of whom keep repeating they don't care about politics). And you can't really suspect the media of trying to smear the movement, when they actually gave it all its visibility (just check the history of Le Monde, they've written hundreds of articles, most of which focused on YV voicing their opinion). Also Le Monde has been actively critical (to say the least) against Macron, they've been trying for months to raise a scandal against him because of the actions of a guy from his team (google "affaire Benalla").
Also having followed the events since the beginning and watched dozens of street interviews, I heard my share of "things aren't that bad for myself actually, but...".
 
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#38
Markon just learned the "Jimmi Carter" lesson.
You can not ask people to "save the planet"/"end all wars"/"stop climate change"/... if it means people will have to make a sacrifice.

People, at large, will only do the right thing as long as it costs to no cost, to them. Costs shall always be carried by others.

Will MSM deamonize Markon for his failure of abiding to the Paris Climate Pact as they did when Trump pulled out?
That's more because Macron and most of the leftist ecology seems like corporate lobbyists dream as they only push spending on new more "ecological" equipment.

Best example is war against diesel engine.

What happens if they make diesel cars not worth using in France ? All those used cars will be sold to Eastern Europe and other poorer areas. So the only gains is shifting problem to your neighbors.

Best way to make sure people use less cars is cheap and good public transport - have Macron done anything on that front or was he only banning things and increasing taxes ?

There's plenty of ways you can improve situation on Earth at no cost to people - but somehow mysteriously no one cares about them and instead all we hear about is we should buy new stuff or pay more.
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
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#40
Best way to make sure people use less cars is cheap and good public transport - have Macron done anything on that front or was he only banning things and increasing taxes ?
Yes there's actually a new plan for public transportation that the government is finalizing :
- 40% increase in public transport funding
- focus on maintenance of smaller train lines
- increase company subventions for people commuting by bike or carpool
- develop carpooling in general
- autonomous shuttles by 2020
...

Also the restructuration of the national rail company started this year should open the possibility for private regional lines, with expectations of getting the same results as Germany where those lines are developing with that model.

As for the problem of people selling their old diesel cars and only moving the issue to other countries, there will be an increase of government funding encouraging people to sell them to car breakers and buy a cleaner one (help increased from 2000€ to 4000€ in 2019)
 
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Jan 14, 2018
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France is in a deep recession since a long time now. Youth unemployment is through the roof, salaries are stagnating, infrastructure is crumbling and rural areas are being completely abandoned. There is a huge wealth and quality of life discrepancy between the tightly packed metropolises and the surrounding "banlieues" where most people are left with no perspective at all.

Just take a step outside of Paris, Lyon, Marseille or Nice and you'll see the vast stretches of utter and complete nothingness, once striving towns left to ruin with younger generations moving to one of the big cities because they can't find a job otherwise. A huge number of french people have no choice but to work in one of the neighboring countries, commuting long distances through insane traffic jams each and every day.

Sure, the French are known for their "strike culture", but the "gilets jaunes" are the recent manifestation of all these structural, social and economical problems that have been brewing for years in France.

What they all seemed to have in common at the outset was their reliance on cars to get around, often living in more rural and less populated parts of the country. [...]

Some experts describe the bulk of the protesters as people who struggle to make ends meet at the end of the month. "Those are the French people who struggle to balance their household budget because of 'obligatory' expenses (rent, insurance, heating ...) that keep increasing," analysts Jérôme Fourquet and Sylvain Manternach explained in a study published last week.

"For these people from the middle and working classes, the increase in price at the pump, to which they go regularly, represents the most glaring illustration of this increase in constrained expenditures," they said.
The fuel tax is the straw that broke the camel's back. For many of the french people who have to commute long distances across borders each and every day, increased fuel costs are a severe issue. Even before that, lots of French people were forced to refuel across the border, where gas is cheaper. Now the situation as become even worse. It's just another slap in the face to those who feel completely abandoned by the neoliberal policies of their government, a political elite that is much too disconnected from the daily struggles of its working population.
 
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Sep 1, 2017
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Markon just learned the "Jimmi Carter" lesson.
You can not ask people to "save the planet"/"end all wars"/"stop climate change"/... if it means people will have to make a sacrifice.

People, at large, will only do the right thing as long as it costs to no cost, to them. Costs shall always be carried by others.

Will MSM deamonize Markon for his failure of abiding to the Paris Climate Pact as they did when Trump pulled out?
They were going to put the carbon tax bill on the American people. When Trump told them to stick it, guess who gets left holding the carbon tax bag?

Europe needs to go through this in order to restore some sanity. After all of those years of making fun of the USA and 'stupid Americans' turns out they played themselves with their own misguided arrogance.
 
Jun 20, 2018
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#45
They were going to put the carbon tax bill on the American people. When Trump told them to stick it, guess who gets left holding the carbon tax bag?

Europe needs to go through this in order to restore some sanity. After all of those years of making fun of the USA and 'stupid Americans' turns out they played themselves with their own misguided arrogance.
Well duh look at the last decade what arrogant delusional borderline treasonous EU politicians did to their own european union and countries via forced open borders all while deliberately ignoring what people have to say about it (the same people they tax up to 50% of their salary lol), they preached "muh merkel is now leader of the free western world cause orange men bad and muh feels!!" just months before she finally decides to piss off after wrecking and handing over half of Europe to the right.
These are not smart people they are just as dumb and human with constant fuck ups as anyone else.
 
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