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What's going on with Andy Ngo and his coverage of Antifa?

Trojita

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I've said before in the past that I have no love for the anarchopussies that have adopted the Antifa name. That said I'm not a fan of manipulating information to make another group of violent instigators look like saints.












How do you get this much wrong in a row? The other problem that people might not realize is that Andy wasn't in Portland during all of this. Surely this has to give you pause when he is reporting violent clashes in the future.
 
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There is only one thing Andy Ngo cares about..... himself and gettig as much exposure he can.

Dont trust the guy one bit.
 

autoduelist

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I've said before in the past that I have no love for the anarchopussies that have adopted the Antifa name. That said I'm not a fan of manipulating information to make another group of violent instigators look like saints.

Oh, really? You're not a fan of manipulating information? Yet in your very first post, you suggest the knocked out man deserved it and charged first.

It literally took me 20 seconds to find this.


He was standing peacefully with his wife [?], despite being surrounded and yelled at. His wife gets pulled away [looks like someone grabbing her stuff] and gets sucker punched, so that 'charge' your version edits it to is actually him going after the guy who attacked his wife. He then gets beat down by a mob with weapons and kicked on the ground.

Do you think their actions were justified? The couple, whatever their views might be, were peaceful until attacked.

According to reports, he wasn't affiliated with proudboys.

I havent checked the rest of your footage because i need breakfast and coffee, but if this is your version of setting the record straight, then what is wrong with trojita's coverage of antifa?
 
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Trojita

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Oh, really? You're not a fan of manipulating information? Yet in your very first post, you suggest the knocked out man deserved it and charged first.

It literally took me 20 seconds to find this.


He was standing peacefully with his wife [?], despite being surrounded and yelled at. His wife gets pulled away [looks like someone grabbing her stuff] and gets sucker punched, so that 'charge' your version edits it to is actually him going after the guy who attacked his wife. He then gets beat down and kicked on the ground.

According to reports, he wasn't affiliated with proudboys.

I havent checked the rest of your footage because i need breakfast and coffee, but if this is your version of setting the record straight, then what os wrong with trljita's coverage of antifa?
Thanks for providing your footage. Looks like someone tried to grab her backpack and then she was slapped on the head when pulling away. Respectablelaw should have had the full coverage from the perspective of their video pov. That was the most tenuous of all the information posted, which I provided mostly because it was one of the first in the chain. I welcome you to look at the rest, but I don't know how you are going to explain away the guy in the black vehicle swinging a hammer at people then being the innocent victim of their own hammer.
 
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autoduelist

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Some more quick spot checks. Andy gno's twitter quickly corrects early reports of that being a girl:


And....

Why does the Matthias tweet in the second post crop the guys head?


If you scroll up to your first post, you can see andy's tweet shows the guys head? Interestingly, the guy is asian... but you can't tell when the head is cropped.

Odd that Matthias's tweet with the cropped head reads:

This dude was part of American Guard, whom the Anti-Defamation League has described as "hardcore white supremacists." He opened the bus door to charge at counter-protesters with a hammer, which an anti-fascist then seized from him
The guy was asian, if you didnt crop his head.

Oh, and
"He opened the bus door to charge at counter-protesters with a hammer, "

Wait,.. the guy inside the bus was going to 'charge' at protestors?

The protestors had already charged the bus, were smashing it, and were attempting to breach.


Okay, that's it, i need coffee. But these tweets you're posting are straight up antifa propaganda garbage, at least the 3 ive checked so far.

Andy gno is on the ground. That excuses some of his mistakes, like the girl/woman, which he corrects. But your tweets, like the guy getting beatdown, are edited after the fact to intentionally cause confusion and misinformation. Anyone who clios the guy down to just his charge is a straight up liar, because it means they had to clip footage of his wife getting attacked.
 
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Trojita

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Some more quick spot checks. Andy gno's twitter quickly corrects early reports of that being a girl:


And....

Why does the Matthias tweet in the second post crop the guys head?


If you scroll up to your first post, you can see andy's tweet shows the guys head? Interestingly, the guy is asian... but you can't tell when the head is cropped.

Odd that Matthias's tweet with the cropped head reads:



The guy was asian, if you didnt crop his head.

Oh, and
"He opened the bus door to charge at counter-protesters with a hammer, "

Wait,.. the guy inside the bus was going to 'charge' at protestors?

The protestors had already charged the bus, were smashing it, and were attempting to breach.


Okay, that's it, i need coffee. But these tweets you're posting are straight up antifa propaganda garbage, at least the 3 ive checked so far.

Andy gno is on the ground. That excuses some of his mistakes, like the girl/woman, which he corrects. But your tweets, like the guy getting beatdown, are edited after the fact to intentionally cause confusion and misinformation. Anyone who clios the guy down to just his charge is a straight up liar, because it means they had to clip footage of his wife getting attacked.
From what I can see from looking at multiple sources is that the black bus got stopped in traffic. Antifa people started throwing things like bottles at the exterior of the bus. Someone with the antifa group went up to the door. The black bus opened the door and started scuffling with the guy. This is when the hammer wielded guy within the bus appears to start hammering people with the weapon. He loses the hammer (first step to bringing a weapon is not to lose it). People start pulling and fighting along with the guy that initially went up to the door. Both groups get pulled away and then someone throws the hammer back at the bus.

My hypothesis is both groups are shitheads.
 

infinitys_7th

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Generally, any time people use the word "debunk" in reference to work other people have done, I think they are just making shit up/being purposefully obtuse/selectively editing things.

The first "evidence" in that thread is this:


Where there is obviously some interaction cut out before the man who was beaten by Antifa pushed the guy. What was that interaction? The irony is that the Twitter lawyer describes this as what happened "immediately before" while also removing footage that removed what happened immediately before.
 

autoduelist

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Thanks for providing your footage. Looks like someone tried to grab her backpack and then she was slapped on the head when pulling away. Respectablelaw should have had the full coverage from the perspective of their video pov. That was the most tenuous of all the information posted, which I provided mostly because it was one of the first in the chain. I welcome you to look at the rest, but I don't know how you are going to explain away the guy in the black vehicle swinging a hammer at people then being the innocent victim of their own hammer.
I don't need to explain that away. I don't advocate people hitting people with hammers.

But that was a large group of armored, masked men smashing the bus he was in and literally trying to breach it. Maybe they should have offered the thugs tea and crumpets instead?

So yeah, maybe he shouldn't of brought a hammer. Maybe a gun? I'm only half joking. Because if armored thugs are trying to breach your bus, you need to stop them. Trying to blame the people defending themselves from mob attack seeks like... what do you call it? Victim blaming?

Over and over, i see the same defense... 'acktuallly, these guys getting attacked are racist fascist white supremacist jerks' as a defense for attacking them. I don't care if they are nutjobs, or supremacists, or senile old wankers on the way to the casino. You do not attack people for their views.

And if you do launch a mob assault on their bus with weapons, you do not get to play the woe is me card when they use weapons to defend themselves.

That tweet claiming he was going to 'charge protestors' from within the bus is Orwellian. It's double think. 5 seconds of reflection shows how absurd his tweet is.
 
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Ornlu

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Maybe if the Antifa cheerleader mayor let the police do their job, we wouldn't have to pick apart videos of the same 100 people fighting in the streets of Portland every week. Maybe arrest everyone that shows up with body armor/weapons/masks and apply some liberal (ha) stick time to people who resist. And maybe don't release people or decide not to charge them with obvious crimes.
 

Trojita

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I don't need to explain that away. I don't advocate people hitting people with hammers.

But that was a large group of armored, masked men smashing the bus he was in and literally trying to breach it. Maybe they should have offered the thugs tea and crumpets instead?
Who was armored at this incident? What were they armored with? Fat? I don't even see masks on most if any of them.

 
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Trojita

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I have to say the use of mace/pepper spray by both sides is such a pussy thing to do.
 

autoduelist

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From what I can see from looking at multiple sources is that the black bus got stopped in traffic. Antifa people started throwing things like bottles at the exterior of the bus. Someone with the antifa group went up to the door. The black bus opened the door and started scuffling with the guy. This is when the hammer wielded guy within the bus appears to start hammering people with the weapon. He loses the hammer (first step to bringing a weapon is not to lose it). People start pulling and fighting along with the guy that initially went up to the door. Both groups get pulled away and then someone throws the hammer back at the bus.

My hypothesis is both groups are shitheads.
Here is footage of antifa throwing large rocks and pieces of concrete at the bus [early video]. There is more footage of this available, including people opening cases with blocks to throw, if you'd like me to find it.

As the video continues, we also see them spitting on busses at 1:10

At 1:20 they continue to throw objects at black bus from close range

At 1:37 antifa start hitting the bus

At 1:40, someone in the bus opens the door and protestors immediately charge and start throwing punches and trying to gain entry. Worth noting, the guy who opened the door had tripped and was unable to defend himself.

Antifa immediately start trying to pull this man out of the bus, the one already down and being beaten. You hear them yelling 'pull those motherfuckers out'.

This is also were we see the hammer being brought up against an assault. We see it ripped out of his hand, and then, an armored antifa does a full powered hammer throw.

We see antifa continue to hit the bus, even after the door is closed again.

At 2:09 we see antifa continue to try to kick the door open, and then once a window is kicked out, spray chemicals inside.


So you tell me. Who was aggressing here?
 
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From what I can see from looking at multiple sources is that the black bus got stopped in traffic. Antifa people started throwing things like bottles at the exterior of the bus. Someone with the antifa group went up to the door. The black bus opened the door and started scuffling with the guy. This is when the hammer wielded guy within the bus appears to start hammering people with the weapon. He loses the hammer (first step to bringing a weapon is not to lose it). People start pulling and fighting along with the guy that initially went up to the door. Both groups get pulled away and then someone throws the hammer back at the bus.

My hypothesis is both groups are shitheads.
While I despise violence as well I do believe in the right to defend oneself. when you follow the trail of violence at these things it always seems to start with someone in black. Grabbing, stealing shit, pushing, suckerpunching, trying to breach a bus. It looks to me like in every instance, Antifa is instigating the violence.

If Andy Ngo is being disingenuous for clicks and shit then fuck him but certainly fuck these guys in your sources too since they are OBVIOUSLY biased in the way they present their material.
 

Trojita

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Here is footage of antifa throwing large rocks and pieces of concrete at the bus [early video]. There is more footage of this available, including people opening cases with blocks to throw, if you'd like me to find it.

As the video continues, we also see them spitting on busses at 1:10

At 1:20 they continue to throw objects at black bus from close range

At 1:37 antifa start hitting the bus

At 1:40, someone in the bus opens the door and protestors immediately charge and start throwing punches and trying to gain entry. Worth noting, the guy who opened the door had tripped and was unable to defend himself.

Antifa immediately start trying to pull this man out of the bus, the one already down and being beaten. You hear them yelling 'pull those motherfuckers out'.

This is also were we see the hammer being brought up against an assault. We see it ripped out of his hand, and then, an armored antifa does a full powered hammer throw.

We see antifa continue to hit the bus, even after the door is closed again.

At 2:09 we see antifa continue to try to kick the door open, and then once a window is kicked out, spray chemicals inside.


So you tell me. Who was aggressing here?
The baldy aggressed when he went after the guy that clumsily slipped after dumbly opening the door. I don't see evidence of this full on breach attempt of armored people. Then another guy in the bus escelates to smashing people with a hammer. Gets it stuck on the roof of the bus (First rule of Goblin Slayer) then loses it. At the end one of the antifa people throw the hammer back in the bus. Also pussies start using mace.
 

autoduelist

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Who was armored at this incident? What were they armored with? Fat? I don't even see masks on most if any of them.
Do you even watch the footage? The guy who threw the hammer at 1:50 in the video i linked immediately above was wearing gauntlets, a gas mask, a helmet...

A guy behind him was wearing a hard helmet.

At 1:57 we see another antifa in gas mask and body armor. he hits the bus at around 2:00.

How many more would you like me to point out?
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I want to point out that over the last two years the narrative has gone from "Antifa is a peaceful organization" to "yeah well they were starting things, too".

One side has enjoyed the tacit support of local government agencies and officials sympathetic to their ideology, as well as favorable coverage (as well as favorable ignorance) of their behavior from the media. All of the groups on the side opposite Antifa have been smeared, sometimes rightfully, but sometimes not.

Seems crass to nitpick who is really responsible for the violence when the underlying problem is clear: these conflicts are occurring on the streets and Portland's Democrat-led government is either unable or unwilling to step in. Considering Antifa's long history as rabble-rousers, it comes as no surprise whatsoever that folks would sign up on both sides just to start fights when they can clearly observe the police won't do anything to interfere. Society is not so civilized that we give up "free" chances to act violent toward our ideological opponents.
 
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Trojita

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Do you even watch the footage? The guy who threw the hammer at 1:50 in the video i linked immediately above was wearing gauntlets, a gas mask, a helmet...

A guy behind him was wearing a hard helmet.

At 1:57 we see another antifa in gas mask and body armor. he hits the bus at around 2:00.

How many more would you like me to point out?
Yeah I saw with your new footage that in that pov there were some people masked and armored, that post having been before you posted that video.
 
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Glad someone is fighting back against these Antifa cowards. Its just a bunch of white hipsters who like the idea of wearing masks and creating violence. When the violence is turned back on them they go right back to being cowards.

I always kind of get a chuckle thinking about some of these "freedom fighters" and what they would do when the "nazi" they punched didn't get hurt and starts to punch back.
 
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autoduelist

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The baldy aggressed when he went after the guy that clumsily slipped after dumbly opening the door. I don't see evidence of this full on breach attempt of armored people. Then another guy in the bus escelates to smashing people with a hammer. Gets it stuck on the roof of the bus (First rule of Goblin Slayer) then loses it. At the end one of the antifa people throw the hammer back in the bus. Also pussies start using mace.
They were yelling 'pull the motherfuckers out'.

He has the hammer up at 1:44 as a large group of men assault the bus.

I repeatedly bring full video to the table. I'm sick of correcting you. Anyone else can just watch it. In a thread about 'misinformation', i expect better than this from the OP.
 

Trojita

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While I despise violence as well I do believe in the right to defend oneself. when you follow the trail of violence at these things it always seems to start with someone in black. Grabbing, stealing shit, pushing, suckerpunching, trying to breach a bus. It looks to me like in every instance, Antifa is instigating the violence.

If Andy Ngo is being disingenuous for clicks and shit then fuck him but certainly fuck these guys in your sources too since they are OBVIOUSLY biased in the way they present their material.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/misinformation-has-created-a-new-world-disorder/
humans are wired to respond to emotional triggers and share misinformation if it reinforces existing beliefs and prejudices. Instead designers of the social platforms fervently believed that connection would drive tolerance and counteract hate. They failed to see how technology would not change who we are fundamentally—it could only map onto existing human characteristics.
While I believe conversations between myself and autoduelist autoduelist are in good faith, I don't believe the people initially reporting the information on both sides with a bias are.
 

DESTROYA

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Whatever way you look at it the Antifa protesting often turns violent, it’s one thing to protest about something but when people get hurt that’s another story.
People labeling them a terrorist group are not entirely wrong.
 

autoduelist

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Yeah I saw with your new footage that in that pov there were some people masked and armored, that post having been before you posted that video.
You mean, i actually search out and watch full footage before posting? Interesting.

If only other people thought about doing this before shitposting...
 

Trojita

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They were yelling 'pull the motherfuckers out'.

He has the hammer up at 1:44 as a large group of men assault the bus.

I repeatedly bring full video to the table. I'm sick of correcting you. Anyone else can just watch it. In a thread about 'misinformation', i expect better than this from the OP.
I don't have the privelege of having playable audio where I am right now. Someone yelling pull a guy that opened the door and was exiting the bus is not the same as the statement that they were trying to full on breach the bus. That's differing opinion and you can believe that there attempt was to actually breach the bus.
 
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Trojita

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You mean, i actually search out and watch full footage before posting? Interesting.

If only other people thought about doing this before shitposting...
I tried my best to watch other things. I'm trying to have an honest conversation without the need for shitposting. I'm flawed like everyone else that I'm not omniscient.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Antifa has been violent for years. Charlottesville and the Berkeley riots were back in 2017. During that time, independent journalists and random citizens captured footage on phones, documented their violence, and have raised awareness for Antifa's behavior. Mainstream media has remained quiet and dismissive of concerns.

Along comes Andy Ngo and suddenly the whole conversation is reduced to "Andy Ngo is an opportunist so we can't trust his coverage". Okay, let's completely erase his contribution to the conversation, for the sake of argument. That does not wipe away the countless reports of Antifa's unprovoked violence, intimidation, and vandalism.
 
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/misinformation-has-created-a-new-world-disorder/


While I believe conversations between myself and autoduelist autoduelist are in good faith, I don't believe the people initially reporting the information on both sides with a bias are.
I absolutely agree that it is almost impossible to avoid misinformation these days. I think the internet could be the source of humanity's collapse in all honesty. People get so blinded by their fanaticism and anger that they automatically assume anything that supports their side is correct. This is definitely visible on each side.

From my experience in regards to all this Antifa shit though, it always starts with some coward in black taking the first sucker punch in these mobs. I support people's right to protest but these Antifa cowards are actually more likely to cause a fascist crackdown on themselves than they are to actually defeat it. Since they aren't actually fighting fascism out there sucker punching and mob beating regular citizens.
 
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Trojita

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Antifa has been violent for years. Charlottesville and the Berkeley riots were back in 2017. During that time, independent journalists and random citizens captured footage on phones, documented their violence, and have raised awareness for Antifa's behavior. Mainstream media has remained quiet and dismissive of concerns.

Along comes Andy Ngo and suddenly the whole conversation is reduced to "Andy Ngo is an opportunist so we can't trust his coverage". Okay, let's completely erase his contribution to the conversation, for the sake of argument. That does not wipe away the countless reports of Antifa's unprovoked violence, intimidation, and vandalism.
And that's a fair assessment that left leaning outlets are not covering Antifa fully honestly either. The situation is fucked. The fact that they cover nothing negative they do should be a warning signs. Mobs never end up fully altruistic.
 
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autoduelist

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I tried my best to watch other things. I'm trying to have an honest conversation without the need for shitposting. I'm flawed like everyone else that I'm not omniscient.
Ok, i just figured that since the guy who threw the hammer was armored up, suggesting no antifa was armored was in bad faith.

All good.


Here is footage of antifa literally bringing concrete to attack the bus.

You see them take it from a case [i know, this sounds crazy which is why i provide video] smash it into smaller pieces, and throw at the bus.



Antifa were clearly threatening, attacking, and straight up assaulting the bus. I think those on the bus were well within their rights to try to defend themselves. I would think that if the average person was in this situation, they'd grab a hammer, a bat, or anything else in fear for their lives. I don't advocate hammers, but this was not that guy 'charging' protesters, as that tweet states. That is full on assault by antifa going on.
 
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Ornlu

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Ok, i just figured that since the guy who threw the hammer was armored up, suggesting no antifa was armored was in bad faith.

All good.


Here is footage of antifa literally bringing concrete to attack the bus.

You see them take it from a case [i know, this sounds crazy which is why i provide video] smash it into smaller pieces, and throw at the bus.

LMAO

Bringing bricks to a violent demonstration in a case is peak privilege. We've found it!
 

Trojita

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Ok, i just figured that since the guy who threw the hammer was armored up, suggesting no antifa was armored was in bad faith.

All good.


Here is footage of antifa literally bringing concrete to attack the bus.

You see them take it from a case [i know, this sounds crazy which is why i provide video] smash it into smaller pieces, and throw at the bus.

Yeah that's fucked. That shit can kill someone. I'm not surprised its coming from the same anarchopussies that set fire to cars.
 

autoduelist

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I don't have the privelege of having playable audio where I am right now. Someone yelling pull a guy that opened the door and was exiting the bus is not the same as the statement that they were trying to full on breach the bus. That's differing opinion and you can believe that there attempt was to actually breach the bus.
If you try to smash doors and windows and then charge the bus and reach inside to pull people out while yelling this, i'm comfortable in my use of the word 'breach' to assess the situation. I don't see how you can see those inside the bus as aggressors given what we see in these videos.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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And that's a fair assessment that left leaning outlets are not covering Antifa fully honestly either. The situation is fucked. The fact that they cover nothing negative they do should be a warning signs. Mobs never end up fully altruistic.
My default assumption is that every mass movement of any substance and influence will at some point be accused (and possibly guilty) of violence. The last 100 years corroborates that assumption.

We need a neutral party (hmmm... like a media corp doing their jobs?) that can help determine the truthfulness of the situation. Is the accusation of Antifa breaking windows and setting stuff on fire true? Did the Proud Boys attack that crowd of peaceful protesters? Did that mob really strike those bystanders, and were those aggressors really affiliated with Antifa? These are valid questions. When the media fails in their duty, observers are left with murky half-truths.

Law enforcement is often not suitable as a neutral party because local officials and/or law enforcement can be corrupt (we've seen this time and again). When both the media and law enforcement take the side of one group that is -- let's not kid ourselves -- breaking the law by causing ongoing public disturbances, violence will escalate. People instinctively feel when something is unfair. We have no trouble identifying when power is being abused, but in the West we are only "allowed" to blame certain people in power and certain ideologies.

I think we've reached the point where focusing on "who started this particular fight caught on camera?" and "is this indie journo a trustworthy source for this specific incident?" gets us lost in the weeds. This entire situation is only possible due to a breakdown/corruption of government and media.

I know Trump catches flak for the phrase, but we need to "drain the swamp" if we want these issues to be resolved.
 
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Trojita

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If you try to smash doors and windows and then charge the bus and reach inside to pull people out while yelling this, i'm comfortable in my use of the word 'breach' to assess the situation. I don't see how you can see those inside the bus as aggressors given what we see in these videos.
I agree with you they didn't initiate the initial violent confrontation.
 
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autoduelist

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Where there is obviously some interaction cut out before the man who was beaten by Antifa pushed the guy. What was that interaction? The irony is that the Twitter lawyer describes this as what happened "immediately before" while also removing footage that removed what happened immediately before.
Just to answer your question in case you missed it. In post 8 i show full footage. The man and his wife were surrounded. Someone appears to try to grab the woman's property, she gets pulled, then gets smacked in the head. The 'charge' shown in the footage is this man defending his presumed wife as she is getting attacked and going after the assailant. He then gets beatdown by a mob with weapons.
 
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Ornlu

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Can this thread be considered a backfire?
Yeah; but it's not like Trojita is wrong. Andy, like everyone else on the planet, has an agenda. Every journalist, pundit, op-ed writer, etc. So saying that Andy Ngo isn't telling the whole story is fine.

Carrying water for Antifa (modern day brownshirts) as some posters like to do (not talking about you here, Trojita) is pretty bad, though. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature should be able to see that they are bad actors.
 

Trojita

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To add to what autoduelist just said, it looks like the woman was smacked in the head with an egg, which then caused the guy to run after the assailant.

There's no excuse for the stomping that occurs. It also looks like it might have been other people within the protestor crowd that were pushing away the stompers and not his wife.

Edit:

Here's scene with a different angle pov that shows what appears to be an egg being smacked on her head. It's the second video of the two.

 
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My default assumption is that every mass movement of any substance and influence will at some point be accused (and possibly guilty) of violence. The last 100 years corroborates that assumption.

We need a neutral party (hmmm... like a media corp doing their jobs?) that can help determine the truthfulness of the situation. Is the accusation of Antifa breaking windows and setting stuff on fire true? Did the Proud Boys attack that crowd of peaceful protesters? Did that mob really strike those bystanders, and were those aggressors really affiliated with Antifa? These are valid questions. When the media fails in their duty, observers are left with murky half-truths.

Law enforcement is often not suitable as a neutral party because local officials and/or law enforcement can be corrupt (we've seen this time and again). When both the media and law enforcement take the side of one group that is -- let's not kid ourselves -- breaking the law by causing ongoing public disturbances, violence will escalate. People instinctively feel when something is unfair. We have no trouble identifying when power is being abused, but in the West we are only "allowed" to blame certain people in power and certain ideologies.

I think we've reached the point where focusing on "who started this particular fight caught on camera?" and "is this indie journo a trustworthy source for this specific incident?" gets us lost in the weeds. This entire situation is only possible due to a breakdown/corruption of government and media.

I know Trump catches flak for the phrase, but we need to "drain the swamp" if we want these issues to be resolved.
Well said. I know I am biased against Antifa. I was born here in Portland and have witnessed their bullshit antics for far too long. At the end of the day trying to figure out who started it is missing the forest for the trees.

There is a serious breakdown of society occurring right before our eyes and most of the media only cares about clicks. This is the error in capitalism as I see it. Similar to the medical industry, when profit margins are the most important thing for a business, ethics go right out the window. It is most harmful in the businesses of journalism and medicine for these reasons.

I think it is a combination of a capitalist media and ideological journalists that have led to this entire one sided view we are always fed. Andy tries to be a counterpoint but he's just one man. He is fighting a monolith essentially.
 
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