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[Vampire On Titus]

Ok ok. We've also had the recent Yooka-Laylee like I mentioned. Plus the remasters of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon are proof that the genre is still pretty popular.

Well the new Yooka-Laylee game (The Impossible Lair) is a 2D platformer and I'm not sure the original was a success that we could count in favor of the genre's current popularity. I think "A Hat In Time" is probably a better example to use.

But really it's a matter of degrees. If you compare the state of 3D platformers now to their heyday it's not close. At one point they dominated the industry and now you can basically point to one legacy series that has retained its popularity (Mario) and a few other examples. Most of which are remasters of decades old games. That doesn't disqualify them as entries into the genre but Mario + a few remakes isn't really an extensive lineup of titles. You could throw Astro Bot into the mix, perhaps. IDK how well it did.

So yeah, the genre isn't strictly speaking dead but it is kind of limping along. Doing better than in the 7th generation but nothing compared to the 5th & 6th generation heyday. Like many other waning genre's it's life is basically tied to the indie scene atm.

 

[GreyHorace]

So yeah, the genre isn't strictly speaking dead but it is kind of limping along. Doing better than in the 7th generation but nothing compared to the 5th & 6th generation heyday. Like many other waning genre's it's life is basically tied to the indie scene atm.

This I think is the most salient point in this thread. With the big studios abandoning certain game genres in pursuit of the big bucks, it's left to the indie studios to pick up the slack and make new titles to keep them alive.

There's a problem with that though. Indie developers are very vulnerable and without a company or resources to support them, they can fold easily. Sometimes with tragic results, like recently when that cunt Zoe Quinn went on Twitter to falsely accuse Night in the Woods dev Alec Holowka of abusing her in the past. After which the online mob went after him and he killed himself.

Holowka is not the only dev who can fall victim to this. We've seen numerous devs harassed by so called 'game journalists' because they wouldn't fall in line with the woke narrative. There has to be ways developers can be protected from such intimidation. With the big studios getting more narrow in their focus, indies devs may be the ones to keep gaming varied and diverse.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

ITT: "Oh no niche games only release a game once in a blue moon!"
I mean come on, beat'em ups evolved to games like DMC.
Arena shooters got natural selection'd by gamers who didn't give a damn about Quake Champions.
Although one could argue games like Amid Evil, DUSK and Ruin are in the vain of old Arena FPSs.

 

[molasar]

I mean come on, beat'em ups evolved to games like DMC.

Beat'em ups have not evolved into games like DMC. Your example is a 3D game which belongs to 3D hack and slash genre (God of War, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, Darksiders).
They have tried to replace them with 3D games (Die Hard Arcade, Fighting Force, Final Fight: Streetwise, Urban Reign, SpikeOut) but their gameplay has brought a different experience, so it did not work.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Beat'em ups have not evolved into games like DMC. Your example is a 3D game which belongs to 3D hack and slash genre (God of War, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, Darksiders).
They have tried to replace them with 3D games (Die Hard Arcade, Fighting Force, Final Fight: Streetwise, Urban Reign, SpikeOut) but their gameplay has brought a different experience, so it did not work.

Ok how about God Hand? The problem with most of these "dead" genres is they're not appealing to modern audiences, Beat'em ups are repetitive and brain dead, without much to hook anyone who didn't grew up with or have foundness for them, most arcade games are incredibly shallow and highly difficult to get those quarters and make money, pretty but shallow.
RTS evolved (for better or worse) to MOBAS which has far more success chance than a traditional RTS.

 

[molasar]

Ok how about God Hand? The problem with most of these "dead" genres is they're not appealing to modern audiences, Beat'em ups are repetitive and brain dead, without much to hook anyone who didn't grew up with or have foundness for them, most arcade games are incredibly shallow and highly difficult to get those quarters and make money, pretty but shallow.
RTS evolved (for better or worse) to MOBAS which has far more success chance than a traditional RTS.

What about God Hand? Has it replaced the best 2D beat'em ups like Capcom's AvP for example which definitely is not shallow gameplaywise? Generally every game or activity becomes repetitive at some point but the main issue with beat'em ups is with the right recipe to make them and its execution.
Mine would go like this as an example:
- 2D graphics as it is easier to asses a distance between objects and enemies, and plan your action,
- pumping up soundtrack that matches game theme, environment and rhythm of gameplay,
- proper sound effects which give a good feeling of hitting (do not have to be realistic),
- proper aesthetics (not confusing-giving a proper contrast between all elements, a size of sprites not too big and not too small),
- proper gameplay system (a proper variety of moves which are approachable-each one is easy to execute, but tactics with them are hard to master, no overload with move sets which can make some of the moves redundant, no 'kata' combos, examples as a reference of gameplay: SoR3, Golden Axe III, Return of Double Dragon, Capcom's AvP, no more than 2-3 players at once to avoid chaos),
- arcade animated comic book style short cutscenes between stages,
- no elements of RPG,
- not too short, but not long enough that makes it hard to finish it in one sitting.

 

[T8SC]

Side scrolling beat-em-ups should make a comeback, I bought Dragon's Crown for this, apparently its close enough. The last time I remember playing anything remotely side-scrolling beat-em-up was the extra content of Tekken 3. Games like Turtles In Time were awesome, along with Final Fight etc.

Also, top down games like Ikari Warriors, SWIV & Chaos Engine should make a comeback too. (Include the Strike series in that, isometric is close enough).

 

[Threeshotgamer]

Some recent City Builders: Foundation, Cliff Empire, Frostpunk, Dawn of Man, Factory Town, Tropico 6, Kingdoms and Castles, Workers and Resources: Soviet Republic, Surviving Mars, Founder's Fortune, Rise to Ruin, Anno 1800, Surviving the Aftermath. Sure, these are mostly not in a modern SimCity setting, but that's probably because it too hard to beat Cities Skylines at that game. I don't really care about the other genres you have there but I wouldn't be surprised if there are plenty of under the radar games there too.

I would also kinda add Transport Fever and the upcoming Transport Fever 2 (releases on the 11th with some major improvements to the first) to this list

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

What about God Hand? Has it replaced the best 2D beat'em ups like Capcom's AvP for example which definitely is not shallow gameplaywise? Generally every game or activity becomes repetitive at some point but the main issue with beat'em ups is with the right recipe to make them and its execution.
Mine would go like this as an example:
- 2D graphics as it is easier to asses a distance between objects and enemies, and plan your action,
- pumping up soundtrack that matches game theme, environment and rhythm of gameplay,
- proper sound effects which give a good feeling of hitting (do not have to be realistic),
- proper aesthetics (not confusing-giving a proper contrast between all elements, a size of sprites not too big and not too small),
- proper gameplay system (a proper variety of moves which are approachable-each one is easy to execute, but tactics with them are hard to master, no overload with move sets which can make some of the moves redundant, no 'kata' combos, examples as a reference of gameplay: SoR3, Golden Axe III, Return of Double Dragon, Capcom's AvP, no more than 2-3 players at once to avoid chaos),
- arcade animated comic book style short cutscenes between stages,
- no elements of RPG,
- not too short, but not long enough that it is hard to finish it in one sitting.

And how much will this game be sold for? 10$? How many copies will it need to sell to make a profit? 2D Animations don't come cheap especially in Japan where only inti creates know how to do 8bit-32bit pixel art.
Take a look at River City Girls it looks gorgeous but it was sold for 35$! Nobody will pay that kind of cash in 2019 for a 2D beat'em up that's like 5 hours long and with no online co-op!
God Hand was an evolutionof beat'em ups in 3D it had the mobs, the different moves, the kick ass music, and the amazing boss fights.
The point is these genre are dead is because they aren't financialy viable unless you're an indie dev who only needs to sell 50k to make a profit.

 

[Arachnid]

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Truth be told I'm not a big fan of those puzzle elements along with mazelike level design you see in classic Survival Horror games.

No big deal man, you can enjoy whatever type of games you like. I personally love both styles, though I lean more towards survival horror. That said, when there are action horror games like Dead Space in existence, I definitely wouldn't scoff at a run through.

 

[molasar]

And how much will this game be sold for? 10$? How many copies will it need to sell to make a profit? 2D Animations don't come cheap especially in Japan where only inti creates know how to do 8bit-32bit pixel art.
Take a look at River City Girls it looks gorgeous but it was sold for 35$! Nobody will pay that kind of cash in 2019 for a 2D beat'em up that's like 5 hours long and with no online co-op!
God Hand was an evolutionof beat'em ups in 3D it had the mobs, the different moves, the kick ass music, and the amazing boss fights.
The point is these genre are dead is because they aren't financialy viable unless you're an indie dev who only needs to sell 50k to make a profit.

What game do you have in mind asking about its price?
Anyway people are willing to pay a lot more for great beat'em up games (Paprium case) and asking for more of them (requests to Xeno Crisis devs).
IMO River City Girls looks OK but not gorgeous. Not even more appealing than the best ones from 90s. I was not even interested to pirate it and I am still not.
You must be kidding about God Hand being an evolution (a good one). I was not attracted to it in any way in 2006 after experience with Urban Reign which I consider the best 3D brawler (although not perfect).
Regarding profitability you do not know if they are because nobody makes them right. Give me examples if you believe I am wrong about it?

 

[Shifty1897]

Strategy RPG's are on life support nowadays, propped up by only Fire Emblem, Valkyria Chronicles (which may now be dead, considering sales of 4), Disgaea, and newcomer Fell Seal.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

When shmups don't even get listed.

Shmups died because people were bad at them.

 

[JoeyWestSide]

With a mix of the internet and scale of gaming, the hype and talk of game genres is contained where you have to seek it out and moreover gaming is growing world wide, so some games/genres gain followings quickly and can last longer resulting in a lacking of a first hand hype for some games/genres.

 

[Wonko_C]

WoW isn't free to play.


Quake Champions is declining steadily. They're down to around 500 concurrent players on most days. Wouldn't be shocked if they were getting ready to mothball it at some point during the next year or two.

If they just kill the game outright instead of releasing it as an offline version with bots and LAN play or splitscreen, It'll be the first Quake game I will never get to play properly because right now my PC can't even maintain 60fps on that game as it is. And I'm probably not building a new PC any time soon. Kinda depressing when I think about it.

 

[DiscoJer]

Strategy RPG's are on life support nowadays, propped up by only Fire Emblem, Valkyria Chronicles (which may now be dead, considering sales of 4), Disgaea, and newcomer Fell Seal.

On console, maybe, but it's very healthy on PC. Some of them, like Fell Seal may make their way to console...

 

[Hawks Eclipse]

What game do you have in mind asking about its price?
Anyway people are willing to pay a lot more for great beat'em up games (Paprium case) and asking for more of them (requests to Xeno Crisis devs).
IMO River City Girls looks OK but not gorgeous. Not even more appealing than the best ones from 90s. I was not even interested to pirate it and I am still not.
You must be kidding about God Hand being an evolution (a good one). I was not attracted to it in any way in 2006 after experience with Urban Reign which I consider the best 3D brawler (although not perfect).
Regarding profitability you do not know if they are because nobody makes them right. Give me examples if you believe I am wrong about it?

What were the highlights of Urban Reign for you?

 

[molasar]

What were the highlights of Urban Reign for you?

Graphics, music, weapons, multiplayer (up to 4 players), interactive environment (destructible objects; cars,forklift, fence react to being knocked), good aesthetics, co-op mode, huge roster of characters, gameplay system (although requires a lot of practice; mo-cap moves; team attacks; moves which allow attack more than one opponent; ground attacks), very good framerate and camera work. Just there is nothing like this on the market. I believe it would become quite popular nowadays as an HD version with online mode.
The worst thing about it is that it cannot be easy picked up.

 

[petran79]

Arcade Puzzle games. Most suffered , following the arcade->portable->desktop console collection->remaster route

FMV games with live actors. Apart from Tesla Effect, Her Story, Conspiracies etc, that genre is far too difficult to develop games for since it requires film processing knowledge, which is different from video games animation.

Modern war vehicle simulation (tanks, helicopters, submarines etc). It was niche in the 90s but it could benefit from use of technology. Especially a submarine simulator. Most are focused on WW2. As for tanks, best choices are Steel Armor:Blaze of War and the more niche and expensive Steelbeasts Pro

Arcade Racers: DEAD AS FUCK FOREVER. KILLED. WIPED OUT.

Not if you play on PC

Shmups died because people were bad at them.

Arcade games and old 2D games suffered in transition to LCD monitors in general, looking much worse.

 

[Justin9mm]

Racing Games: Needs a major overhaul, arcade racers are almost non existent. It's like devs are too scared to take risks, they play safe on everything. NFS Heat had potential but it's just not innovative enough.

The racing genre is the first troubled genre that comes to mind.

Shooters: You can claim there are too many but it's all from the same few brands. MW 2019 is a nice fresh instalment but I think we could do with a few new Single Player Campaign IP's. Can never have too many 'Good' shooters.

Speaking of new IP's.. Will anyone ever make a new fighting IP.. Something like Street Fighter / Mortal Kombat or do you think they just can't be replicated. It's strange no one has ever dared this!