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What's the Worst Argument You've Heard to Defend a Game?

Nov 4, 2017
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Anything relating to Nintendo games and having subpar graphics. Somebody will always retort that it isn't about graphics, and gameplay is what's important.

I guess good gameplay and good graphics are mutually exclusive...
The actual problem with most arguments about Nintendo and graphics is that when people diss Nintendo "graphics", they are usually complaining about Nintendo using anime-esque art styles rather than trying to do photorealism. It's not really like Nintendo games actually look bad - in fact, for their 1st-party games from Gamecube onward, a 4K res bump on an emulator does wonders. The problem with "Nintendo graphics" is more that Nintendo's gimped hardware does not allow their own games to flex their graphical strengths to the fullest, combined with Nintendo's awful legacy support meaning the average person will NEVER see a Gamecube or Wii game in 4K.

But no, many of the folks moping about Nintendo graphics just don't like Animal Crossing looking "kiddy", as if you'd rather try having AC-style interactions with photorealistic bears, lions and wolves in a gritty WWII shooter style. ... Actually, that might be a funny idea to try, I'll think more about that later.

Anyway, with more relation to the thead: Coming from any series which has been basically zombified, it's glory days long over, and hearing someone say about one particularly mediocre entry "Hey, this is way better than [other mediocre entry from a year or two back OR one of the worst entries]" as though going from awful to merely soulless mediocrity is something to celebrate.
 
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D3SCHA1N

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Nov 13, 2017
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In recent memory I had one where I said that a game should have an auto-pick up system because it is a game where you gather resources constantly and you have to stop and hold a button to pick everything up. I said it should be picked up automatically because theres no reason to ever not pick it up, and some guy said that holding the button to pick up the items was more immersive, even though there's no animation associated with it.... That's the worst argument in defense of a game I've seen recently.
 

STARSBarry

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Destiny 2 fans defending why they need the content they paid for removed, normally begins or ends with "I have played this for x hours so I have had my money's worth" and "there is no other game in the market like it".

Yeah those are not reasons why the decision is passable by a consumer, those are admittance that you are stuck in a sunk cost fallacy.
 
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TheMay30thMan

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Aug 23, 2018
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“If it doesn’t affect gameplay, I don’t care.”

As if games are solely made up of gameplay. I’ve seen this a lot when it come to paid cosmetics. If you’re okay with cosmetics, just say that. When you make this excuse, you sound like an imbecile.
 
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Raven117

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Some of yall just stating legitimate defenses that you don't agree with.

And the irony is palpable.
 
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Guileless

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Star Ocean 4, there were some real brain dead weebs over on the GameFAQs who would say just about anything to defend that game.

One girl tried to defend Lymle by saying “she’s not a bad character, they EXPLAINED why she acts the way she does. Besides, ALL kids are annoying sometimes. It sounds like you just don’t like children”.

WTF, I don’t even know how to respond to that level of stupid. How much d-list shounen anime do I need to watch before that kind of logic makes sense?

(For those who haven’t played it, Lymle is a toddler who looks like a freakish soulless rubber doll and talks like a combination of caveman and Furby. and says “Kay” at the end of every sentence. Her back story is that she had an encounter with a demon as a young child that caused her to stop developing.)

When are we getting a AAAA Lymle solo game?
 
Oct 26, 2018
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The frame rate losers.

1. 60 fps is too fast. I prefer 30 fps games (often conveniently when their platform of choice plays the 30 fps version)

2. Games are better at 30 fps because it's closer to movies at 24 fps (often paired up with claims humans can't see more than xxx fps, so 30 is good enough)
 

Clear

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No matter what game is being discussed, you'll always see the same old arguments being made to excuse away any problems people may have.

For me, the absolute most brain dead argument is "If you don't like it, go make your own game". This implies that any customer for any business shouldn't be able to complain about their purchase, unless they've actually created a similar product themselves.

Nah, its an argument usually employed to discard empty criticism.

Some people labour under the misapprehension that stating a dislike of something is an opinion of intrinsic worth. When in reality its only a description of their personal reaction and useless/meaningless to anyone else.

If you can't say what's wrong with a thing, why shouldn't we assume the problem is actually you and your tastes/perceptions?

The challenge to "make your own game" isn't literal, its figurative. Basically saying "OK, you think you're so fucking smart, go do it better yourself." Which obviously in almost every instance isn't going to happen! Mainly because even making the shittiest game in creation takes more talent and commitment than pissing and moaning on a message board :D

Lets face it, this isn't about not being allowed to complain. What it actually is, is not having your complaints pushed back against.

Which is kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
 
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Gankthenew

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"This design is really strange and makes me uncomfortable to play."
"That's what makes it special."
???? Can I explain that to my teacher after I fail???
 

fart town usa

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I'd say anything that hypes Cyberpunk 2077.

I'm happy for those who enjoy it and are able to play it at good settings but I just don't see anything special about the game. It's a mediocre shooter and the open world aspects are mediocre as well. Menu system is a complete mess, etc. I'm glad I own it, I kind of view it as a novelty, something like RE6. Just a magnificent high budget trainwreck. It's a complete disaster any you look at it IMO.

 

Eimran

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Battlefield V when saying that using a one-armed, superstrong woman in the front line of a so called historically accurate game is just trying to score woke points...

yOu mUsT hAtE wOmYn!! ReEeEeee
 

MiguelItUp

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Feb 24, 2015
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Anytime legitimate bugs are treated like gameplay mechanics.

"Game just wasn't really for me"
"Because it was too hard?"
"...No, I just don't think it was for me. I couldn't get into it."
"Maybe you're just playing it wrong."

Dr Evil Whatever GIF
 

envyzeal

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You''ll get used to it and youi'll experiment new weapons. After you get the Master Sword it won't break anymore!
 
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Ozriel

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Special mention needs to go to the clowns defending the lack of a save option in Returnal.

“it will ruin the devs creative vision!”

“I beat it myself without any saves, so everyone else in the world should do the same”

jesters.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

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In JRPG communities, any time you criticize the genre you get the “WRPGs do it too!” defense. e.g.

“I don’t care for romance in JRPGs, usually it’s really cringe and forced”

“OH YEAH well in BioWare games anybody can be gay or straight depending on what the player wants, how is that any more realistic???”



“JRPGs can be too reliant on overused tropes….”

“Hey guess what, allow me to open your ignorant gaijin eyes, WRPGs also have tropes!!!! You are just unaware of them because they’re so ingrained in your culture…”



It’s impossible to have an honest discussion about what you like and dislike about the JRPG genre without some dipshit thinking they need to be “Defender of Japan” and turn it into a WRPG vs JRPG battle. As if those are the only two genres and anybody who criticizes one is really just trying to score points for the other.
 

01011001

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Dec 4, 2018
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RPG players when you criticise the stiff and shit combat in a wRPG often rebuttal with "it's an RPG it's not about action, it doesn't need good attack animations!!"

*looks at everyone who thinks Bethesda makes good games*
 
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kanjobazooie

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"Mario Galaxy wouldn't be good on PS3/360 because HD will take the fun out of the experience", or something like that.

The random forums I used to frequent during Wii days were filled with such interesting takes.
 
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RafterXL

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Oct 24, 2017
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The Last Guardian, Trico controls like shit.

"It's supposed to be frustrating"

Yeah, no, get bent with that nonsense. This applies to basically any game, if the controls are bad, I don't wanna hear the excuse for why they are intentionally horrible. I had 1972 Vega with no power steering and no power brakes, that shit didn't make the driving more immersive, it just made for a horrible experience.

It's "fun with friends" is total smooth brain commentary as well. Like, very few things aren't.

''showing metacritc score/amazon sales as a counter argument''

This one actually has one legit usage. Whenever people make claims like "nobody wanted this" "older games in the series were more popular" etc. tossing a sales figure/player count is a perfectly fine rebuttal.

Probably some shit defending the horrible AI in the last guardian
Just beat my post.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

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"Mario Galaxy wouldn't be good on PS3/360 because HD will take the fun out of the experience", or something like that.

The random forums I used to frequent during Wii days were filled with such interesting takes.
Ugh yeah, I think fanboys are the absolute worst part of anything. But I think Nintendo fanboys back then were the worst of the worst, because they felt the need to bash and downplay all the stuff 360/PS3 had that Wii didn’t.

I hung out on the GameFAQs Wii U board because I was genuinely interested in what the system would bring. These people convinced themselves that it would be a huge leap over the current gen, and that PS4 would have to be $1000+ in order to significantly exceed Wii U. Even when Shigeru Miyamoto himself said it wouldn’t be a big leap over PS3/360, they were like “oh he’s Japanese, he is just being modest.” And when it launched, they blamed “lazy developers” for the games looking on par with 360.

It’s no wonder trolling is so prevalent there. They were truly asking for it. At some point I gave up trying to have a level headed conversation and instead took pleasure in seeing the fanboys whine.
 
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Bragr

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Stuff like metacritic doesn't work because games are subjective, and "I just don't like the genre, it's not for me" or, the best one, from Kingdom Hearts fans "you just don't understand it".
 

azertydu91

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It's fun with friends ... I could literally play the shittiest game ever and have fun with my friends.Hang out with your friend and check if you do not have the same level of fun, if equal then the game had no part in the fun you experienced.
 

BbMajor7th

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As much for movies as games: "Yeah, I know it's really bad, but I just wanted to see for myself."
Translation: "The marketing was so good that I bought it even knowing it sucked."
 
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Nah, its an argument usually employed to discard empty criticism.

Some people labour under the misapprehension that stating a dislike of something is an opinion of intrinsic worth. When in reality its only a description of their personal reaction and useless/meaningless to anyone else.

If you can't say what's wrong with a thing, why shouldn't we assume the problem is actually you and your tastes/perceptions?

The challenge to "make your own game" isn't literal, its figurative. Basically saying "OK, you think you're so fucking smart, go do it better yourself." Which obviously in almost every instance isn't going to happen! Mainly because even making the shittiest game in creation takes more talent and commitment than pissing and moaning on a message board :D

Lets face it, this isn't about not being allowed to complain. What it actually is, is not having your complaints pushed back against.

Which is kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
I've seen this argument used even when people give very solid reasons behind their criticism. Again, try applying this "logic" to literally any other industry, and it makes zero sense. Using it to defend a game that you like is nonsensical. Saying "go make a game yourself" isn't "push back" against an argument. It's deliberately trying to ignore complaints that people have, coming from people who cannot articulate a real rebuttal.

Also, stating problems that you might have with a game can most certainly be highly beneficial to others, if they find fault with the same type of issues. "Go make your own game" is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I'm not listening, I'm not listening!"
 
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theclaw135

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The Last Guardian, Trico controls like shit.

"It's supposed to be frustrating"

Yeah, no, get bent with that nonsense. This applies to basically any game, if the controls are bad, I don't wanna hear the excuse for why they are intentionally horrible. I had 1972 Vega with no power steering and no power brakes, that shit didn't make the driving more immersive, it just made for a horrible experience.

It's "fun with friends" is total smooth brain commentary as well. Like, very few things aren't.

We can't have nice things. I want a kaiju or mech game with the visceral experience of controlling a lumbering titan that obliterates all in its path.

I can't stand it when my character who should weigh hundreds of tons, turns on a dime and has no weight to its momentum.
 

BreakOut

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“Your the only person who thinks that”
Whole Internet is actually on your side.
 

RafterXL

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We can't have nice things. I want a kaiju or mech game with the visceral experience of controlling a lumbering titan that obliterates all in its path.

I can't stand it when my character who should weigh hundreds of tons, turns on a dime and has no weight to its momentum.
In The Last Guardian you're a little boy, not a hundred ton mech, it just feels like you're a hundred ton mech. And Trico's AI feels like early gen voice recognition software, frustrating not immersive. The controls are objectively terrible and nowhere near "we can't have nice things" territory. Even mech controls are responsive, they're just slower and deliberate. If TLG were an EA title the shitty controls are garbage performance would have been 100% unanimously reviled, but it's an "auteur " Japanese game, which means it gets free passes on all it's problems.
 

Clear

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I've seen this argument used even when people give very solid reasons behind their criticism. Again, try applying this "logic" to literally any other industry, and it makes zero sense. Using it to defend a game that you like is nonsensical. Saying "go make a game yourself" isn't "push back" against an argument. It's deliberately trying to ignore complaints that people have, coming from people who cannot articulate a real rebuttal.

Also, stating problems that you might have with a game can most certainly be highly beneficial to others, if they find fault with the same type of issues. "Go make your own game" is the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I'm not listening, I'm not listening!"

Again, your error is the assumption that the criticism is valid in the first place, or more accurately was taken as valid.

The bottom line is always going to be that another person doesn't need to take your opinion onboard if they don't want to. And in a case such as you telling them why you found a fault in a piece of entertainment that they enjoyed... you're ice-skating uphill! Because they have no good reason to entertain your viewpoint when it conflicts with their experience.

Best you can do is be as persuasive as possible if you want to change their minds, or at the least articulate your reasoning in a compelling and rationally sound manner.

And if you can do the latter, why should you care what other people think anyway? You've said your piece and backed it up, why look for further validation if you are truly confident in your assessment?
 

EDMIX

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No matter what game is being discussed, you'll always see the same old arguments being made to excuse away any problems people may have
I agree with Toad on this one someone doesn't need to convince you why they like something that's completely subjective, If they like a game that's really all there is to it....so I don't really get this whole "defend" concept regarding something like this it would be like trying to say "what's the worst argument you've heard to defend chocolate"

Fuck am i supposed to do with this exactly? lol

Make that person's taste buds change?


Probably the "artistic" argument.
I agree with some of what you're saying but for the most part I would argue somebody actually saying that you "don't get it" or "it's art" it's probably the most logical argument they could make to defend the game based on them liking it because they're basically telling you they like something that you don't like. they got it, you didn't.... this is as subjective as it gets which means it's not really a dumb defense, it's the most the logical...

Not everyone is going to get or like the same type of art which means there is no objective thing going on in which a defense like that would be bad.

It's simply means you disagree...that's it.

It's equivalent to getting a painting and having a room full of 10 people agree or disagree with liking it or not and then making it sound like it's now in "excuse" to disagree with you lol

So to even try to argue that something artistic is some excuse is the question why you even play games in the first place or why you feel you need to force your idea upon other users that might simply just disagree with your artistic views as opposed to their own.
Oh yeah, those are classics.
"You don't get it!" is a bad argument from any angle.

"Sold a lot thus it's good"... so the best games every year are COD, FIFA, and Madden?
I don't believe not getting it is a bad argument even remotely, put it this way I don't really understand the appeal of that Goat simulator game but that does not mean someone who does get it and enjoys it doesn't have a reasonable defense for why they enjoy it... their defense could be as simple as "you don't get it". As in the appeal of the game is based on understanding some type of humor or based on the context of something else entirely that needs to be understood to enjoy it...

I'm sorry but it just sounds to me like you're so fucking triggered that someone disagrees with you, you're trying to force this idea that an objective reason needs to exist lol

It doesn't.

I can fucking tell you that I like chocolate more than life itself and explain to you that you "don't get it" and I don't really need to say anything more beyond that bud lol
The issue is you have with people "defending" the game. It's complaining that someone won't listen to reason to why a game they like isn't good.
Agreed. Thats all I get from this.
My problem is awful rebuttals to legitimate complaints.
"Sold a lot thus it's good"... so the best games every year are COD, FIFA, and Madden?

I don't know what to tell you, you have a problem with awful rebuttals but for the most part most of the comments I'm seeing barely have any context to understand why any of those people brought up those statements, as in can you actually reply to a post that was stated by anyone in this forum that has ever argued they specifically believe Call of Duty FIFA or Madden are the best because they sell good or they believe those games are good because they sold good specifically as in exactly only based on sales is the reason behind their belief that they are great products or that they enjoy them because of the sales or something like this because it's starting to sound like you basically are making up something that's never happened to argue about a person that may not even exist lol

It's not like millions of people are buying a game called Madden and when they put the game in it's like pong or something and they keep buying it for the name alone or because everyone else is buying it, I'd argue if such a thing occurred you have a great reason to make this thread but I don't really see a lot of evidence that someone really is liking these things simply for the sake of the sales of the game alone and nothing more as if they're not playing the game or something weird like that lol so what you're trying to argue as defending the game in context might simply just be telling you an objective fact based on what's even being discussed so I don't even know If I could say someone referencing the sales of any one of those games was really a "defense" of them liking something in the game.....
 
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I agree with Toad on this one someone doesn't need to convince you why they like something that's completely subjective, If they like a game that's really all there is to it....so I don't really get this whole "defend" concept regarding something like this it would be like trying to say "what's the worst argument you've heard to defend chocolate"

Fuck am i supposed to do with this exactly? lol

Make that person's taste buds change?



I agree with some of what you're saying but for the most part I would argue somebody actually saying that you "don't get it" or "it's art" it's probably the most logical argument they could make to defend the game based on them liking it because they're basically telling you they like something that you don't like. they got it, you didn't.... this is as subjective as it gets which means it's not really a dumb defense, it's the most the logical...

Not everyone is going to get or like the same type of art which means there is no objective thing going on in which a defense like that would be bad.

It's simply means you disagree...that's it.

It's equivalent to getting a painting and having a room full of 10 people agree or disagree with liking it or not and then making it sound like it's now in "excuse" to disagree with you lol

So to even try to argue that something artistic is some excuse is the question why you even play games in the first place or why you feel you need to force your idea upon other users that might simply just disagree with your artistic views as opposed to their own.

I don't believe not getting it is a bad argument even remotely, put it this way I don't really understand the appeal of that Goat simulator game but that does not mean someone who does get it and enjoys it doesn't have a reasonable defense for why they enjoy it... their defense could be as simple as "you don't get it". As in the appeal of the game is based on understanding some type of humor or based on the context of something else entirely that needs to be understood to enjoy it...

I'm sorry but it just sounds to me like you're so fucking triggered that someone disagrees with you, you're trying to force this idea that an objective reason needs to exist lol

It doesn't.

I can fucking tell you that I like chocolate more than life itself and explain to you that you "don't get it" and I don't really need to say anything more beyond that bud lol

Agreed. Thats all I get from this.



I don't know what to tell you, you have a problem with awful rebuttals but for the most part most of the comments I'm seeing barely have any context to understand why any of those people brought up those statements, as in can you actually reply to a post that was stated by anyone in this forum that has ever argued they specifically believe Call of Duty FIFA or Madden are the best because they sell good or they believe those games are good because they sold good specifically as in exactly only based on sales is the reason behind their belief that they are great products or that they enjoy them because of the sales or something like this because it's starting to sound like you basically are making up something that's never happened to argue about a person that may not even exist lol

It's not like millions of people are buying a game called Madden and when they put the game in it's like pong or something and they keep buying it for the name alone or because everyone else is buying it, I'd argue if such a thing occurred you have a great reason to make this thread but I don't really see a lot of evidence that someone really is liking these things simply for the sake of the sales of the game alone and nothing more as if they're not playing the game or something weird like that lol so what you're trying to argue as defending the game in context might simply just be telling you an objective fact based on what's even being discussed so I don't even know If I could say someone referencing the sales of any one of those games was really a "defense" of them liking something in the game.....
You're totally taking my point and twisting it around. I'm talking about people who have no coherent arguments to make, so they make it seem like you're too inexperienced, too stupid, too ignorant to have a rational discussion. I've already said in this thread, I've never tried to convince someone that they shouldn't like a game. I've never belittled anyone who truly has decent reasons or arguments about a game. My problem is the dismissive rebuttals that fanboys make when they can't form a coherent argument.
If I say "Game X was poorly written imo, and here's several reasons why..." or "Game X has this mechanic in the game which is poorly designed because of x,y,z", and the ONLY response is "Go make your own game", "you just didn't understand", "it sold well, so it must be good", THOSE aren't good arguments. Those don't address anything I've said. It's dismissive just for the sake of being dismissive. I feel like this was pretty clearly explained in the OP.
Acting like no one can dare to have a negative opinion about a product that they've bought is absurd.
 
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Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
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Red Dead Redemption II: "The controls work as intended!"
No, they fucking don't.
 

Radrigal

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"It's supposed to be short. More games should be shorter."

What I'm mostly hearing:

"Games should be beatable in one session because I don't have the time to invest in my so called hobby and I have the attention span of a baby that I just can't focus on one game and I have to play another game right away because this is apparently a competition for playing the most games in the shortest amount of time. Btw any game with an open world sucks."
 

EDMIX

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I've never belittled anyone who truly has decent reasons or arguments about a game.

So what you are saying is you need to deem that reason "decent" or you will belittle them for disagreeing with you? They need a good reason before you get to the bashing or?

Sir...even when you state this


My problem is the dismissive rebuttals that fanboys make

SO as soon as its a reason you don't deem "decent", they are a fanboy? No views are allowed that you don't feel is decent and let the bashing begin?

Acting like no one can dare to have a negative opinion about a product that they've bought is absurd.

I agree bud, but I'd say belittling anyone who has a view you disagree with is just as absurd, they don't need to fucking have any view or opinion that you MUST deem decent and reasonable in order to not get attacked.

How about do not belittle anyone regardless if your views differ man? Wouldn't that make more fucking sense? smh. Its as if the more silly the reason, you think its 100% this open season, attack on sight view simply because you don't get it or disagree or their reason isn't good enough for you.

"you just didn't understand",

THOSE aren't good arguments.

If someone likes that fucking Goat game and you and I don't fully understand it, that is ok and allowed. They need not provide a solid reason, logical or otherwise on why they like the game and why they play it as us not understanding it is a solid enough reason for some games. They don't need to prove to you shit regarding this. If someone says they like a Big Mac more then water, the fuck you going to do? Sue em? Why would they owe you this deep and logical argument on a subjective concept? Some times it comes down to "you just don't understand" as I can say that how I feel on lots of games that I don't get the popularity of, but what I don't do is demand some "good argument" or else "fanboy" lol The rest of your arguments sound fake as shit, like its trying really, really hard to pretend as if someone is really saying "it sold well, so it must be good" Who the fuck on this forum has stated this about this topic under the context of why they bought or played a game etc?

Is that why no one is even quoted in this shit and its simply this theoretical of things you hope someone would say to um "belittle" them or something? I feel 99% of what you stated is out of context and I wouldn't be surprised if the very people you'd even quote from some thread will not even support that their view was to suggest that the game sale is why they bought the game as in the sole reason.

You're totally taking my point and twisting it around.

Ironic as the topic itself is filled with theoreticals that sound like comments completely taken out of context to force this narrative that a games sales was the sole reason someone bought a game or defended a game etc =)

You didn't think something was a bit weird about that? Like how no person is really quoted and its just a list of fake comments that none of us even fucking have the full story to even know what some of the comments you made mean? "Sold a lot thus it's good".....so who said this? What thread? so.....so no one at all? yet I must be twisting it around, on comments that no one made and if they did make them are not even quoted here to defend their comment, in a thread about them defending a game, they themselves can't defend in the thread itself.......

Ok
 
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daywarf

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How about you play what you like and don't throw a fit when others like something you don't?

Not liking something is fine, but being upset when people don't want to listen you trying to convince them why they're wrong for liking it is another thing.
I think it is right to seek common ground while reserving differences and not force others to accept their views
 
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