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What's up with 360 disc installs?

2n2

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
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Anyone else perturbed about 360 disc installs not behaving the way they used to? I'm about ready to turn in my Soul Calibur V disc because the non-stop spin up every time you go to the main menu screen is driving me insane. For some reason it seems newer 360 games have a super-long spin-up when starting and/or in games that installed games never used to, and it's totally defeating the purpose of the installs.

First off, I know some people will say it's not a big deal. If you can tolerate it, cool. However, for others like me it is. When the 360 got the ability to install to HD, I pretty much converted solely to the 360, and only used the PS3 for exclusives. I'm aware the PS3 can install select games if the option is programmed in, and the disc probably spins otherwise, but it doesn't sound like a damn vacuum cleaner like the 360 disc drive.

Apparently this is due to the new xbox disc format needing some sort of extra security checks because the disc structure changed to accommodate that extra GB or whatever of space. Maybe it's that and a combo of the new dashbaord. I dunno. Either way it sucks.

I only have experience with a few games since the fall, so I don't know how common this is. I played Batman Arkham City, and it had a long spin-up time at start, and kept going at the main screen for a while, but I don't recall it happening after the initial load.

I had Gears 3, and it behaved just like the old discs. Perhaps my copy wasn't based off the new format yet. UMvC3 behaves as normal. However Soul Calibur V is all sorts of messed up. I timed it, and the disc spins at what sounds like full-speed for two whole minutes at start up before stopping. Ok, not too bad. The stupid part is that if you don't wait for it to stop at the menu screen, and start any mode, the disc does not stop spinning at all. If you do wait for it to stop, you can enter a mode per usual with installs, and no spinning, but as soon as you back out, it starts up again and doesn't stop. Even if you just go from the main menu, into options, and back out, it revs back up and doesn't stop. At least I don't think it does. I exited to the dashboard after about 5 minutes of spinning. It's especially aggravating for a fighting game where you hop around a lot between modes.

Part of the benefit of installing is to lessen wear-and-tear on the disc drive. What is the point of that when the disc drive is still spinning like a jet engine the whole time?

So what's going on? Is there some sort of check at every game's title screen? Is Soul Calibur V just poorly programmed? Whatever the case, Microsoft needs to address this. It's really making me reconsider my future 360 purchases if this feature no longer works the way it seemingly should.

I don't do twitter, otherwise I'd try to send Major Nelson a message to see what he says. If anyone has any insights please, share.
 

Apath

Member
Aug 4, 2009
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20
Yes, and I fucking hate it. I'm not one to put my TV at too high of a volume, so the drive noise is really noticeable -- especially in Battlefield 3. Noise level was the whole reason why I upgraded from my old fat to the slim 360 too. =\
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
May 8, 2007
28,696
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Texas
www.dolefulorange.com
I haven't use my 360 in forever but that sounds really shitty as I really loved the install feature. Loved it!

This would only be with new games right?
I haven't even updated to the new dash. Would I even be able to play a new game without updating?
 

Recarpo

Member
Jul 12, 2010
876
0
540
I've noticed it spinning a bit longer on start up of a few games, but not to the extent of the op's issue with soul calibur. Usually it's about 30 seconds to a minute or so and the spinning will stop. That's really strange that it would start up every time you go back to a menu, though.
 

Mr. Enigma

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Dec 7, 2008
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This happens with newer games that use the new Xbox 360 anti-piracy disc partitions. It takes about 5 minutes after the disc boots up to complete the checks, then the disc will stop spinning.
 

hitoshi

Member
May 28, 2006
1,059
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0
It's more stranger that a lot of games can not be installed anymore if you are online: the lastest culprit is the PAL version of The Darkness 2, but i noticed it with Borderlands and Bad Company 2 too. If i disconnect from Live, it just works - maybe a problem with their servers when checking the disc...?
 

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Feb 28, 2005
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I haven't use my 360 in forever but that sounds really shitty as I really loved the install feature. Loved it!

This would only be with new games right?
I haven't even updated to the new dash. Would I even be able to play a new game without updating?
Yes, older installed games still function the same (no disc reading at all). I think Gears of War 3 was the first game to use the new disc format, and it seems like all/most titles released after that point do as well.

I haven't found the differences to be all that annoying in the newer games I've played. The disc reads pretty vigorously for two minutes, but after that, the drive shuts down for the rest of the session (a lot of the time I haven't even really started playing yet). I haven't experienced anything like the OP has with SC5 in any games that I've played — that just seems like it shouldn't happen.
 

Rpgmonkey

Member
Sep 29, 2007
6,794
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It's more stranger that a lot of games can not be installed anymore if you are online: the lastest culprit is the PAL version of The Darkness 2, but i noticed it with Borderlands and Bad Company 2 too. If i disconnect from Live, it just works - maybe a problem with their servers when checking the disc...?
Oh wow, thank you bringing this up!

I haven't been able to install UMvC3 for some reason and it was really bothering me. I tried what you said and it worked!
 

faulty_fork

Member
Jun 12, 2007
357
0
0
Sweden
Yeah all new games seem to have those longer security checks now. I also noted that the disc started spinning everytime I started up one of Desmonds memories (the ones on animus island) in Assassins Creed Revelations.
 

LiK

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Mar 26, 2007
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Yeah all new games seem to have those longer security checks now. I also noted that the disc started spinning everytime I started up one of Desmonds memories (the ones on animus island) in Assassins Creed Revelations.
Actually, i think the game is just loading up the FMV computer sequence every time you do that. I assume that FMV wasn't installed to HDD.
 

2n2

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
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It's bearable if it's only a couple of minutes one time at startup. Still seems long, but tolerable. The repeated spin-ups is a killer, though. If correctly implemented, it seems like this wouldn't be necessary. Unless the 360 doesn't install the whole game anymore. I dunno. I don't know if I was online or offline when I installed SCV. I'm not sure why that would matter. Seems like once again legit users get screwed by DRM. UMvC3 seems totally normal for me, just as before the dash and disc format update w/ older games.
 

faulty_fork

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Jun 12, 2007
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Actually, i think the game is just loading up the FMV computer sequence every time you do that. I assume that FMV wasn't installed to HDD.
Yeah it's possible that the developers can be more selective with what goes to the hardrive now after the updates. I know that it was just straight iso dumps when the install feature was first introduced.
 

Dr Zhivago

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Jun 7, 2004
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It's more stranger that a lot of games can not be installed anymore if you are online: the lastest culprit is the PAL version of The Darkness 2, but i noticed it with Borderlands and Bad Company 2 too. If i disconnect from Live, it just works - maybe a problem with their servers when checking the disc...?
I had this problem. Apparently clearing the HDD cache fixes it, but I've not tried that yet.
 

2n2

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
1
0
This was the killer app for the 360 for me. I hate that they're messing with how it works now. Why the heck can't we just dump the whole game to the HD and let is check once at start? It worked beautifully before.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Dec 5, 2008
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Soul Calibur V - Just an interesting thing: if I go to Offline mode, THEN I am getting an online game invite, accept it, it means that I skip main menu and the disc does not start spinning again.

Which means that it must be some patchable error, definitely.
 

rapid32.5

Member
May 3, 2010
1,215
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started with Gears 3 for me and now with Skyrim. Also, I get disconnected from Live all the time after new dash 'upgrade'
 

Kandrick

GAF's Ed McMahon
Jul 18, 2007
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The checking takes longer yeah, the disc keep spinning for 1-2 minutes. But i never hear it outside of when i launch the game.

it's totally defeating the purpose of the installs.
Uh.. no ? So it spins for a few minutes vs spinning the whole time.
 

naoki5001

Member
May 16, 2006
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I had the "not being able to install" issue with the Japanese version of SSFIV AE this week (using a Japanese system). First time it's happened to me. I logged out of my profile and then tried to install and it worked fine. If I didn't log out, it would just sit at the install screen quietly and not storage selection menu would pop up.

When that error happened, my two choices were load the disc from the menu by pressing the center button on the controller and then choosing "Play SSF IV Arcade Edition." or turning off the system and then rebooting it. No other options were available from the guide button (system settings, logging out, etc.).
 

2n2

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Jun 9, 2004
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The checking takes longer yeah, the disc keep spinning for 1-2 minutes. But i never hear it outside of when i launch the game.



Uh.. no ? So it spins for a few minutes vs spinning the whole time.
Not for Soul Calibur V and some other games people mentioned.
 

Count of Monte Sawed-Off

un33dab@dpu$$y
Mar 18, 2008
19,079
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It's annoying but it just lasts about 5 minutes so I can live. The first game I had that did it was Arkham City and it confused the hell out of me at first.
 

DMeisterJ

Banned
May 15, 2008
24,645
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Wilmington, DE
Yeah, the disc check is super long now (comparatively), but I didn't hear of newer games continually spinning.

The whole point of the installs was to have the drive not spin.
 

EagleEyes

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Mar 27, 2008
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Yeah, the disc check is super long now (comparatively), but I didn't hear of newer games continually spinning.

The whole point of the installs was to have the drive not spin.
This is how its been for me. The disc will spin for a couple minutes tops then it will be as quiet as its always been. Havent had a disc keep continually spinning after its been installed though.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
May 21, 2006
17,232
3
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This was so obnoxious in AC:R, especially since I played it on an old jet engine 360.

Even my girlfriend noticed when playing some recent game. "I thought we installed it, why is it still making noise"
 

EagleEyes

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Mar 27, 2008
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This was so obnoxious in AC:R, especially since I played it on an old jet engine 360.

Even my girlfriend noticed when playing some recent game. "I thought we installed it, why is it still making noise"
But didnt it stop after a couple of minutes?
 

Baconsammy

Banned
Aug 9, 2011
17,535
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This was the killer app for the 360 for me. I hate that they're messing with how it works now. Why the heck can't we just dump the whole game to the HD and let is check once at start? It worked beautifully before.
It still does that. There's a new DRM check that spins the disc for a couple minutes. Otherwise there's no difference. Hardly rant-worthy unless you own a jet-engine 360. Fortunately I haven't owned one of those in years. Such bad memories.
 

2n2

Member
Jun 9, 2004
13,133
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It still does that. There's a new DRM check that spins the disc for a couple minutes. Otherwise there's no difference. Hardly rant-worthy unless you own a jet-engine 360. Fortunately I haven't owned one of those in years. Such bad memories.
I own the latest revision of the fat before the redesign and it's still loud. Plus it's not only just spinning at startup. See the previous posts.
 

Dabanton

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May 25, 2007
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My main Xbox is now the Slim version. My one just does the checks for 2 mins then stops and is ultra quiet. My Elite does the same but the noise from that machine is still there but just in a low hum can't really hear it unless you were specially looking for it.

My other old 360 which is all packed up. installed game or not that thing was noisy as shite.


And they keep pushing people towards piracy...
Ermm how?
 

MarkMclovin

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Dec 5, 2008
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That spinup time almost always stops by the time my save game has loaded.

I get more sound from the fans, and I'm rocking an Elite.
 

shuri

Banned
Jun 8, 2004
19,324
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1,710
OK this is GAF, can any game journo try to get this adressed by Major Nelson or whatever?
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Nov 27, 2007
38,097
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Ottawa, Canada
Someone might start getting annoyed by this "feature" and resort to custom firmware to get arround the issue (that is, assuming that you can currently play 360 games directly off a HDD...I'm not exactly up to speed with the console modding scene).

As if people that pirate stuff need a push.
Every little thing contributes towards that metric. Offering an inferior experience to a paying customer is not how you win them over.

Personally, this will just push me towards not buying 360 games (even though I buy very few as it stands). The 360 drive is incredibly loud and I just don't want to hear it while playing games. I don't want to hear it for 5 minutes because Microsoft wants to make sure I'm running a legitimate copy (and let's be realistic here...do you think this DRM check is accomplishing anything?).
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Dec 5, 2008
25,320
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OK this is GAF, can any game journo try to get this adressed by Major Nelson or whatever?
address what? the disc spins for a couple of minutes because of changes they made to their security. end of story.

they're not going to tell you how or why.
 

RibbedHero

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Oct 27, 2010
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Someone might start getting annoyed by this "feature" and resort to custom firmware to get arround the issue (that is, assuming that you can currently play 360 games directly off a HDD...I'm not exactly up to speed with the console modding scene).
AFAIK you can't play pirated/modded games directly from an HDD like you can on the PS3 and Wii, you need to have the disc and it will behave like a legal copy.
 

soqquatto

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Jul 18, 2007
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I both own a 360 and a PS3 and I mostly buy multiformat on X360 because I can install (the irony...). but if this is true (and I'm noticing both Batman and Amalur doing this) I'll stop buying for X360 and switch to PS3.
 

2n2

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Jun 9, 2004
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address what? the disc spins for a couple of minutes because of changes they made to their security. end of story.
No. Please read above. That would not be a big deal, but this check is causing it to happen during the game and not stop. THAT is the issue.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Nov 27, 2007
38,097
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AFAIK you can't play pirated/modded games directly from an HDD like you can on the PS3 and Wii, you need to have the disc and it will behave like a legal copy.
My mistake, then.

I both own a 360 and a PS3 and I mostly buy multiformat on X360 because I can install (the irony...). but if this is true (and I'm noticing both Batman and Amalur doing this) I'll stop buying for X360 and switch to PS3.
That was one of the big reasons for me buying multiplats on 360 as well.

Thankfully most multiplats come out on PC now, so I don't have to worry about it too much.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Dec 5, 2008
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No. Please read above. That would not be a big deal, but this check is causing it to happen during the game and not stop. THAT is the issue.
if you read my whole post (it's only 2 lines) I ended it with "they're not going to tell you how or why" (that would be the line you cut off)

if it does something I would assume it's for a reason; a reason they're not going to explain.

edit: there's a few issues in this thread. The one I'm talking about specifically is the disc spinning on boot.
 

Kelegacy

XBOX - RECORD ME LOVING DOWN MY WOMAN GOOD
May 9, 2006
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Oh wow, thank you bringing this up!

I haven't been able to install UMvC3 for some reason and it was really bothering me. I tried what you said and it worked!
Wtf, so that's why I couldn't install The Darkness 2 over the weekend. I thought I had a bad disc.