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Which black sheep console had it worse, Wii U or Sega Saturn?

Which doomed system had it worse?


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It's not a lame cop out, that's why you removed the rest of context because you didn't have a valid response.

It's a lame copout to say it didn't matter that a system had a poor launch because its 'rivals' were coming later, more so when it doesn't fit a narrative. I keep bringing up Japan for the simple reason it was a market where SEGA and Saturn was able to outsell the PS for large periods and also the N64 and just wondering how 'if' SquareSoft had moved to the Saturn for FF7 what sort of impact that would have had in Japan. That's for Japan, sadly in the USA and Europe would morons in charge of SEGA thinking another add-on and the cartridge format was going to be the winner for the next-gen and where you had SEGA Vs SEGA for its consumers, retail and developers. Do I back the Saturn or the 32X? I totally mess of a business strategy, if ever there was one

The Mega Drive launch sales didn't set sales alight in the USA, it didn't have a great launch lineup and wasn't doing wonders in Japan, the only expectation to the rule was Europe (where the Mega Drive from day one enjoyed great sales) It took until Sonic before we saw Mega Drive sales truly explode that was 2 years after the Mega Drive 1st came out. So a great launch isn't the be and end all. It's what comes later with the 1st and 2nd gen software that can have a bigger impact on sales, more so when the console price hits the magic mass-market price point Dragon Quest came out in 2000 and long after Squaresoft had made the PS the system to own in Japan for RPG's


A SEGA just behind the Saturn could have put up a much better fight and possibly could have come a good 2nd place and if SEGA had Square a easy number 1 in Japan
 
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th4tguy

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Saturn had it worse. For all the reasons listed already and the simple fact that most of its very expensive games are still only available on the original system. Even emulation for the system is very lacking.
Not only is most of the wiiu library available on other consoles but emulation for wiiu is somehow in a much better state.
I got a Saturn back in 96 and because of where I lived had a very hard time finding games for it. Still so many games for the Saturn that I wish I could have played and if it was any other system I would have had many different means of doing that.
 
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Genx3

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Saturn is till this day the Fighting game King.
No console has had a better fighting game library.
No console has come packed with a better fighting game controller.
Saturn also had Graphically superior (more frames of animation) versions of 2D fighters due to it having more Ram than the competition.
Saturn's 2D hardware was 2nd to none. It could handle more sprites, parallax backgrounds and animations than any console launched WW for it's time.
Too bad the hardware was literally a clusterfuck of processors thrown all together last minute to help the Hitachi developed Saturn SH2 HW catch up to the MIPS developed MIPS R3000 chipset in the PS1.
 
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Jubenhimer

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not a single relevant new IP to carry the platform,
We did get Splatoon TBF. But I agree that the Wii U desperately needed more games that were unique to it. Far too much of the console's library feels like it was recycled concepts from the Wii, DS, and 3DS.
 

Synless

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I’m voting Wii U because it’s legacy has been mostly ported to Switch. At least the Saturns games are for the most part only playable on the Saturn.
 
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Hitchyhero

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When I was a kid I didn't know anyone with a Sega saturn. In fact seeing the console for the first time when I was in my early teens I thought I was seeing a console that was rare.
 

Nikodemos

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The original Wii sold the lie of a revolution, the WiiU sold the lie of an ipad for kids
Seamless motion controls weren't a lie. True, Sega had them on the Dreamcast, but outside of Sega Bass Fishing and the one guy who finished Code Veronica using said fishing rod, very few people took notice.
 

playoverwork

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People had already gotten weirdly toxic about Sega, in my anecdotal memory being a kid in Chesapeake VA in the mid 90s. I think I was in the 3rd or 4th grade with my token small group of nerds, and we were analyzing each console. When I mentioned the Saturn someone immediately blurted out “Saturn REALLY sucks!!” But here’s the hilarious part: I calmly replied, like I was the Sage of video games (which I still fancy myself as being) that the Saturn was technically more powerful than PlayStation. I actually knew this shit as a fucking 12-year old, even though it didn’t really get hashed out until over 20 years later. There must have been some short commentary on it from a hardware person in EGM, GameFan, NextGen, or whichever magazine I read at the time. Anyways, of course it didn’t matter because to the naked casual eye they were either the same, or the PS was slightly better since it was getting all the R&D from the majority of devs. Or the PS was getting all the games the casual player wanted to play like Spyro, not that weirdo game based on the art by a guy named “Möbius” about a dragon flying through some steampunk world with genetic engineering.

So, the Saturn lol. People just ignored the WiiU or gave it a free pass. In fact I haven’t even really seen Nintendo fans acknowledge it as a failure. They sort of just say, “Meh, a 3 year run is good enough. I had a good enough time for what I paid, with my quaint little library of maybe a dozen games along with the backwards compatibility. Ain’t much else I give a fuck about.”

The other fun detail I have to mention about that story in the first paragraph is none of those dudes had gotten screwed by the 32X. I always get tired of that legend of the MD add-ons because no one actually owned a 32X and the SegaCD was legit good, but it is what it is. The fucking hilarious thing is I DID know one dude with a 32X, an affluent kid the same age as me, and there was zero evidence that he was bitter about it. He just didn’t think about it on those terms — probably thought it was a good enough experience with Virtua Racing Deluxe, Star Wars, and Virtua Fighter. The concept of resenting the whole company forever and wanting nothing less than for their name to be scrubbed from existence was foreign to him. The funny thing is I had skipped the 32X and gotten the PS and Saturn, which we played a lot together, but he never once started crying or something and saying he should have bought this instead lmfao. What’s even more hilarious is I was sitting there sort of secretly feeling sorry for him, thinking how I had committed a much more educated move as a consumer whether it was the Sat or the PS. But I think he had too many other interests in his life. He was a talented musician, but I digress.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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It's a lame copout to say it didn't matter that a system had a poor launch because its 'rivals' were coming later,
You can't compare the PS2 to rivals that didn't exist yet. You're being completely irrational, you can only compare to the DC launch to the ps2, and outside Japan I said the PS2 was worse, and Sega squandered their early advantage their second year.

The Mega Drive launch sales didn't set sales alight in the USA,
This was never part of the conversation, I explained this twice, you brought this up without reason. The point was that Sega failed to convert Genesis owners because it didn't have games they wanted.

SEGA just behind the Saturn could have put up a much better fight and possibly could have come a good 2nd place and if SEGA had Square a easy number 1 in Japan

No it couldn't, they did not have the games to bring in new SEGA customers or two convert genesis owners. I know this is something Saturn fans constantly have trouble admitting but Sony hrounroughtg in an expanded audience and converted many computer and console users over time, Sega didn't do either even just within it's own ecosystem.

As for Japan, you continue with the strange delusion that Sega having FF7 would work, it wouldn't unless it was Exclusive, and even then that wouldn't have given Sega victory because Sony already had other system sellers even without FF7 before and during that same year. It was already near 2:1 with momentum before FF7 or the hype for it before release even began. Also already games on both systems were frequently selling more on PS1 even then.

You're basically ignoring all this to create an imaginary battle where you can pretend the only reason the Saturn became irrelevant innjapannis because of FF7, no. Even then SEGA would never get it as an exclusive regardless, it would be in both, and Sony would back it and have the marketing deal, and it would sell more on PS1.

In America the games barely relevant compared to all the other big sellers.

I keep bringing up Japan for the simple reason it was a market where SEGA and Saturn was able to outsell the PS for large periods and also the N64
It wasn't large periods, they were losing substantially in less than two physical years to the PSX from launch. The Saturn also never outsold the N64 a single year the N64 was out. N64 was delayed and outsold the Saturn every fiscal year it was out in Japan, if the N64 released earlier the Saturn would have lost. N64 had no fighters, jrpgs, and many other japanese favorite genres yet it outsold the Saturn in it's first fiscal year which was the peak Saturn fiscal year. N64 ended less than the Saturn but they both ended up in the 5 million sales tier.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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I was the Sage of video games (which I still fancy myself as being) that the Saturn was technically more powerful than PlayStation.
The Saturn is not stronger than the PlayStation. The gap isn't as wide as people believed due to the amount of work needed to show it, but it was not stronger. I'm hearing this a lot recently I think Saturn fans are becoming the same as Jaguar fans.

The other fun detail I have to mention about that story in the first paragraph is none of those dudes had gotten screwed by the 32X. I always get tired of that legend of the MD add-ons because no one actually owned a 32X and the SegaCD was legit good, but it is what it is. The fucking hilarious thing is I DID know one dude with a 32X, an affluent kid the same age as me, and there was zero evidence that he was bitter about it. He just didn’t think about it on those terms — probably thought it was a good enough experience with Virtua Racing Deluxe, Star Wars, and Virtua Fighter. The concept of resenting the whole company forever and wanting nothing less than for their name to be scrubbed from existence was foreign to him. The funny thing is I had skipped the 32X and gotten the PS and Saturn, which we played a lot together, but he never once started crying or something and saying he should have bought this instead lmfao. What’s even more hilarious is I was sitting there sort of secretly feeling sorry for him, thinking how I had committed a much more educated move as a consumer whether it was the Sat or the PS. But I think he had too many other interests in his life. He was a talented musician, but I digress.

The 32X blame is a strange one, it was released to give life to the Genesis and it did, it sold estimated 750k and could have sold more if they didn't pull the plug. Especially with how slow the first year of the Saturn was in the US, had some decent games on it the short time it was out, I could have seen further adoption as high as 2 million. Maybe could have helped Genesis keep it's lead on the SNES.
 
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Old Retro

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I loved the Saturn for 2d games, especially imported Japanese titles, which I have a bunch of. I loved it since I first played a demo in a Sears in the fall of 95. To me, the Wii was gimmicky and had as many epic games as the N64, which was not that many. I did love I could play Gamecube games I had missed like Metroid Primes.
 
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xpresstuning

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Due to circumstances surrounding SEGA of Japan and of America at the time, the Sega Saturn had it worse, but that in no way, shape or form means that it's a worse home console than the WiiU.
 

Kokoloko85

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When you look back at the Saturn, try to name 10 must play games, I get to about 5 and give up, those 5 being:

  • Virtua Figther
  • Tomb Raider (the best version of the game in fact)
  • Daytona
  • Panzer Dragoon Saga
  • Sonic 3D Blast

As for must plays:

Guardian Heroes
CastleVania Symphony of the Night ( The better vesion )
ShiningForce 3 + ( Part 2 and 3 if you can read japanese lol )
Fighters Megamix
The better version of the 2D fighting games of the generation. Street Fighter Alpha 1-3. King of Fighters. Street Fighter vs Xmen/ Marvel etc
Grandia
Dark Saviour
Radiant Silver Gun
Resident Evil
Dragon Force 1 and 2
Lunar series
Shin Megami Tensei Devil Summoner
Suikoden
+ Many more Shootem ups and JRPG’s like Batsugan, Battle Garegga, Langrisser, Magic Knight Rayearth, Shining Wisdom, Tactics Ogre, Sakura Taisen


More awesome games if you dont count them as must plays:

Saturn Bomberman ( The best game in the series )
Panzer Dragoon 1 and 2
Nights
3 Dirty Dwarfs
Die Hard Arcade
Shinign in the Holy Ark
Albert Odyssey
Burning Rangers
Sega Rally
Wipeout
Baku Baku Animal

Its one of my favourite consoles and one of the best consoles when it comes to Fighting games, Shmups and JRPG’s
Galactic Attack
 
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Kokoloko85

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I loved the Saturn for 2d games, especially imported Japanese titles, which I have a bunch of. I loved it since I first played a demo in a Sears in the fall of 95. To me, the Wii was gimmicky and had as many epic games as the N64, which was not that many. I did love I could play Gamecube games I had missed like Metroid Primes.

Ive had every major console since the Nes and the Wii is my least favourite console ever by far. I remember the advert about the motions controls which was a bunch of lies lol. Ive loved every other Nintendo console and Handheld.

N64 had some amazing ground breaking games like Zelda OOT, MM, Mario 64 and Golden Eye. And some classics like Mario Kart 64, Banjo, Perfect Dark, Smash and WCW Revenge/ WWF No Mercy but the Sega Saturn had just as many if not more amazing games. And I prefer the Saturn

Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan beause of the JRPG’s, Fighting games and Shmups, which the N64 lacked
 
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the_master

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Seamless motion controls weren't a lie. True, Sega had them on the Dreamcast, but outside of Sega Bass Fishing and the one guy who finished Code Veronica using said fishing rod, very few people took notice.
But imho, it was not a revolution as they discontinued that approach.
Also, all the ads they had and trailers they made with people aiming guns around the house, cutting with the swords or playing sports like real life, where all a lie.
It was the worst, most dishonest marketing campaign I remember. The WiiU failed at this point and sunk
 

MvCSpiderman

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Ive had every major console since the Nes and the Wii is my least favourite console ever by far. I remember the advert about the motions controls which was a bunch of lies lol. Ive loved every other Nintendo console and Handheld.

N64 had some amazing ground breaking games like Zelda OOT, MM, Mario 64 and Golden Eye. And some classics like Mario Kart 64, Banjo, Perfect Dark, Smash and WCW Revenge/ WWF No Mercy but the Sega Saturn had just as many if not more amazing games. And I prefer the Saturn

Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan beause of the JRPG’s, Fighting games and Shmups, which the N64 lacked
No Saturn outsold the the N64 because the N64 came out late. Japan just stopped caring about the Saturn's genre advantage for some reason.

Otherwise, I agree it had a lot of good games. Also waggle was bad.
 

zaanan

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Black sheep?

You mean African-American Sheep, racist!
 

Faithless83

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Looking at the poll it looks like people here were too young or too attached to ninty to understand the major difference between these consoles.
Saturn at least had third party support.
 
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