Which is a more controversial statement - "I just came out as gay" or "I'm now a Trump supporter"

Dec 15, 2011
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What point is being made when making such a false equivalence?

Are we really trying to say that coming out as a Trump supporter is the same as coming out as being gay? Or worse, that coming out as gay is actually easier?? I haven't heard any stories about children being kicked out of their homes for being a Trump supporter.

Supporting a politician is a personal choice, and at least to some degree says something about what kind of person you are.
"Hey, I'm going to pretend I can't understand what this comparison is. Whilst I do this dance I'm going to go on and show I actually fully understand by using contrary anecdotal evidence. My goal is to insist that my answer is right, whilst I insist that asking the question is wrong.

No no, don't question my integrity. My antics are painfully obvious at this stage. But so long as I either act wounded, turn aggressive, or pretend that I'm ignorant of my own behaviour I'll give myself licence to repeat this schtick against anything that doesn't further my own ideological agenda.

Good talk.
"
 

Yoshi

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Well, one is a choice, the other is not. Being a Trump supporer should be more controversial than being gay. As someone who would vote for Sanders if given a vote in the US election, I think being a Sanders supporter should be more controversial than being gay.
 

LegendOfKage

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Well, one is a choice, the other is not. Being a Trump supporter should be more controversial than being gay. As someone who would vote for Sanders if given a vote in the US election, I think being a Sanders supporter should be more controversial than being gay.
Neither are a choice. You can't will yourself to go against your feelings or opinions and have that be sincere. That's not a choice, it's pretending for the purpose of avoiding conflict.

It's not a choice to be gay or straight. It's not a choice to want Trump or Sanders as your president. VOTING is a choice, but only through action. Who you want to vote for is not a choice.
 

CeroFrio996

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Neither are a choice. You can't will yourself to go against your feelings or opinions and have that be sincere. That's not a choice, it's pretending for the purpose of avoiding conflict.

It's not a choice to be gay or straight. It's not a choice to want Trump or Sanders as your president. VOTING is a choice, but only through action. Who you want to vote for is not a choice.
Sorry but I don't buy that. You don't just believe something as a matter of being. It's only when you tie your personal politics so tightly to your identity (a person choice) that you become unable to shift your views when new evidence is presented. My politics and beliefs change daily, and I chose how to interpret the world through that lens, including who I support.

My sexuality is stagnant. No matter what evidence you provide to me trying to prove that I am not bi at the end of the day I will 100% always be bi. It is basically immutable.
 
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Tesseract

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well i tell you one thing

being the guy who supported bush then obama then bernie then trump now gabbard tho still trump and kinda bernie maybe yang perhaps more trump sure ain't winning over any friends
 
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LegendOfKage

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Sorry but I don't buy that. You don't just believe something as a matter of being. It's only when you tie your personal politics so tightly to your identity (a person choice) that you become unable to shift your views when new evidence is presented. My politics and beliefs change daily, and I chose how to interpret the world through that lens, including who I support.

My sexuality is stagnant. No matter what evidence you provide to me trying to prove that I am not bi at the end of the day I will 100% always be bi. It is basically immutable.
Immutable and choice are two different things. The US has freedom of religion, which is not immutable, but is a protected characteristic. Even the sexual orientation argument you're making is not an example of an immutable characteristic, unless you're going to tell me it's impossible for someone to change how they feel about their own sexuality. Perhaps very uncommon past a certain age, but not unheard of. And if gender expression is a protected characteristic, that certainly is something that can change later in life.

You don't make the choice to tie your beliefs to your identity. They're a part of you, and they absolutely can change, but YOU cannot will them to change. I cannot will my beliefs to change, and neither can you. If my mind does change on any given topic, it's also something that I had no choice in. It happens naturally, and once it has, I can't choose to go back to my old way of thinking anymore, either.
 

CeroFrio996

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You don't make the choice to tie your beliefs to your identity. They're a part of you, and they absolutely can change, but YOU cannot will them to change. I cannot will my beliefs to change, and neither can you. If my mind does change on any given topic, it's also something that I had no choice in. It happens naturally, and once it has, I can't choose to go back to my old way of thinking anymore, either.
If you take that argument up it inevitably leads to the argument that there is no free will, which I do not subscribe to. You absolutely can make a conscious effort to change what you believe. If you take away someone's ability to choose then you also take away a person's ability to be responsible for what they believe.
 

Barsinister

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We are placing our Trump 2020 banner in our garage, because it will get torn down otherwise. Just like how our Christmas lights get stolen every year.
 
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Tesseract

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If you take that argument up it inevitably leads to the argument that there is no free will, which I do not subscribe to. You absolutely can make a conscious effort to change what you believe. If you take away someone's ability to choose then you also take away a person's ability to be responsible for what they believe.
you don't have to subscribe to it, you just have to accept it and carry on

hard truths cut both ways, cero
 
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LegendOfKage

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If you take that argument up it inevitably leads to the argument that there is no free will, which I do not subscribe to.
I don't agree.

You absolutely can make a conscious effort to change what you believe. If you take away someone's ability to choose then you also take away a person's ability to be responsible for what they believe.
Then make the conscious effort to decide that I'm completely right about this. You might say "no, I don't want to, because I don't agree, and that's not really how I feel." And you'd be right. But you couldn't choose to agree despite your feelings, unless you were just lying to me and yourself. And if thinking about this did actually change your mind, you couldn't choose to go back either. Again, unless you're lying to yourself.

And if you changed my mind about this, it wouldn't be from a choice that I made either, and I wouldn't be able to choose to go back. :messenger_open_mouth:
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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Keep it to yourself tbh
Same goes for straight people talking about their 3D gf.
Absolute degenerates.
 

Riven326

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Well, one is a choice, the other is not. Being a Trump supporer should be more controversial than being gay. As someone who would vote for Sanders if given a vote in the US election, I think being a Sanders supporter should be more controversial than being gay.
I don't think being gay should be controversial at all. It's like with gay marriage being supposedly controversial. Why? Two people want to get married. What business is that of mine? It will likely end in divorce anyway just like with hetero couples. Christians need not lose sleep over this issue.

Now onto Sanders. He's a commie. It should be controversial if you support that guy. Trump is many things. He's not a communist. And don't give me the Democratic socialism spin, I've heard it before and I think it's bs. You don't take your honey moon in the USSR unless you're a commie.

Now for Trump. He's not a commie so he's already an improvement over Sanders. I also support the right of all Americans to get two scoops of ice cream. Supposedly that's controversial but I just don't see it.
 
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An easy way to gauge this is to ask which position is sometimes taken merely for status. Very few would pretend to be a Trump supporter, because that immediately plummets your status in most areas, including career prospects etc. But I've personally witnessed countless young people (college students) identify as somewhere on the "bi/queer/nonbinary" spectrum even though they demonstrably date only the opposite sex and are in no ways a real outlier, clearly doing it as a kind of performance to pick up on a certain added status gain in certain circles for being outside the common or vulgar heter/binary.
 
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Aurelian

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An easy way to gauge this is to ask which position is sometimes taken merely for status. Very few would pretend to be a Trump supporter, because that immediately plummets your status in most areas, including career prospects etc. But I've personally witnessed countless young people (college students) identify as somewhere on the "bi/queer/nonbinary" spectrum even though they demonstrably date only the opposite sex and are in no ways a real outlier, clearly doing it as a kind of performance to pick up on a certain added status gain in certain circles for being outside the common or vulgar heter/binary.
How do you actually know they're not LGBT? You can be open to homosexual relationships while tending to skew one way or the other. Just because you aren't straight as an arrow doesn't mean you're obligated to pick someone of a different gender for variety's sake. Besides, I don't think there's harm in exploring your sexuality to figure out who you are.
 

hariseldon

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How do you actually know they're not LGBT? You can be open to homosexual relationships while tending to skew one way or the other. Just because you aren't straight as an arrow doesn't mean you're obligated to pick someone of a different gender for variety's sake. Besides, I don't think there's harm in exploring your sexuality to figure out who you are.
Oh how naive you are.
 
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Aurelian

my friends call me "Cunty"
Feb 22, 2009
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Oh how naive you are.
Er... how? I know bi women who've always ended up with guys but are clearly attracted to women. It's easy to claim "oh, it's just a stunt" if you've only ever seen brief glimpses of their views. And again... even if it's just a temporary thing based out of curiosity or image, who the hell are we to tell them they can't broaden their sexual labels for a while? They're not really hurting anyone.