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[Green Mamba]

Well, if it really was marketing 2003, then why aren't there more games that feature RPG elements still?

Your argue is something like "Just because XXX game has smart AI, doesn't mean every game should." Or "Just cause this game has great music, doesn't mean every game should."

You can't honestly be serious, can you?

I mean, uh, wow. I guess I can't wait for the next Super Mario Bros. where you have to level up Mario's jumping and running abilities.

 

[Vercingetorix]

"Just because you can make new topics doesnt mean you should"


How's that for analogy.

:lol Awesome.

 

[Y2Kev]

I used to think this, then I played Too Human.

But it had LEWT

PHAT LEWT

 

[Tain]

I mean, uh, wow. I guess I can't wait for the next Super Mario Bros. where you have to level up Mario's jumping and running abilities.

dude it would make it DEEPER and more PERSONALIZED

 

[Tobor]

But it had LEWT

PHAT LEWT

Even the almighty LEWT has it's limits.

 

[Beaulieu]

All game should be ass halfed efforts without variety in environnements and ennemy type, and be marketed as "diablo 2 in 1st person shooter" without actually delivering anything similar to diablo2 ?

edit : bosses always drop the same loot, gg.

edit2 : you can respec your character at any time for a cheap cost, how stupid.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

You just equated RPG elements with quality.


auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh

I know. The fundamental lack of logic in his posts makes me question how he came to use a fucking keyboard.

 

[John Master Lee]

Castlevania third-person RPG set in a giant, free-roaming castle with four player co-op.

Fuck yes, I support the OP.

ZOMG, a Mario free-roaming platforming/loot-whoring RPG!

YES.

Actually... YES. They should have it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a great single player Mario experience. But why should the game include more features that allow for more variety in the way you want to play a game.

Note that the new Mario game allows for multiplayer. In many ways, Mario already has some elements of RPG in it, with the way your characters gradually improves and unlocks new moves the further you get into the game.

 

[Tain]

i just cancelled my Mushi Futari 360 preorder cuz it didn't have enough SKILL TREES

 

[bengraven]

god damn do i hate jamming rpg elements into good action games.

god damn it.

I mean I can stand it every once in a while and there are exceptions but

god damn it.

I completely agree.

 

[jman2050]

Actually... YES. They should have it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a great single player Mario experience. But why should the game include more features that allow for more variety in the way you want to play a game.

Note that the new Mario game allows for multiplayer. In many ways, Mario already has some elements of RPG in it, with the way your characters gradually improves and unlocks new moves the further you get into the game.

OMG :lol :lol :lol

 

[speedpop]

So games should be more like Diablo 2?

Am I getting this right?

Just remember that Borderlands was never the first game to do these things, nor will it be the last. Those heralding it as the next coming of gameplay christ need to add a bit more perspective to their hobby.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I have not personally played this game - Borderlands. In fact, I know very little about it.

However I have read this post and I can't say that I agree. Stating that we are at the edge of some sort of "paradigm shift" I think is a bit much for something like "mandatory RPG element inclusion" to all games of the genre. Perhaps they are nice for some titles, but I doubt it would be a snug fit or every game because some gamer decreed it so.

 

[Green Mamba]

Actually... YES. They should have it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a great single player Mario experience. But why should the game include more features that allow for more variety in the way you want to play a game.

Note that the new Mario game allows for multiplayer. In many ways, Mario already has some elements of RPG in it, with the way your characters gradually improves and unlocks new moves the further you get into the game.

When the hell was the last time you played a Mario platformer?!

 

[darkwings]

Is Borderland that game which looks like RAGE?

 

[ZealousD]

Difference is that those shooters are enjoyed by their fans without needing a loot mechanic to prop everything up. Borderlands seems to be entirely dependent on it thus far.

No. Borderlands also has different classes, skill trees, online and split screen co-op, vehicles, etc etc etc.

Oh, and the gameplay isn't half bad either. But the haters are pissed off that you need more than 3 bullets to take down enemies.

 

[Walshicus]

Shoehorning co-op in every game that can vaguely support it in some way is the worst idea ever, especially when it doesn't really change the experience other than having another dude.

No it isn't. I can't think of many genres at all that are better with one just player.

Halo 3 tried so hard to tell people that "when you play 4 player co-op you're all individual characters with names and shit" and yet this is never ever reflected beyond Chief and the Arbiter.

Who fucking cares? Halo 3's campaign was exponentially better with every human player added.

L4D gets it right.

Of course. Because L4D is plain and simple awesome.

 

[Haunted]

Borderlands rocks. Phat loot rocks.

This thread and the OP's article sucks. There's no raging debate to be had, just everyone agreeing that the OP is completely wrong.

 

[John Master Lee]

You can't honestly be serious, can you?

I mean, uh, wow. I guess I can't wait for the next Super Mario Bros. where you have to level up Mario's jumping and running abilities.

SMB already has elements of RPG. You can improve his various abilities with power ups that you pick up. That sort of depth allows you to tackle various levels in different ways.

So yes, I'm serious.

 

[Tobor]

Yes.

So now you agree with the OP. Interesting.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Actually... YES. They should have it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't have a great single player Mario experience. But why should the game include more features that allow for more variety in the way you want to play a game.

Note that the new Mario game allows for multiplayer. In many ways, Mario already has some elements of RPG in it, with the way your characters gradually improves and unlocks new moves the further you get into the game.

My god, Super Mario Bros was an RPG, grabbing that mushroom is just like a buff!

No it isn't. I can't think of many genres at all that are better with one just player.

WRPGs for one. Imagine Mass Effect 2 with 4 player co-op, who the hell would decide what happens? Rock paper scissors over who gets to change the fate of the galaxy? :lol

 

[WyndhamPrice]

Unless you're talking specifically about Sunshine you have the same moves in every Mario game from beginning to end.

 

[Slavik81]

Well, if it really was marketing 2003, then why aren't there more games that feature RPG elements still?

Because after a few years, gamers realized it was a huge mistake to shove gameplay mechanics into games without ever thinking about whether they actually improve the game.

An example of a game that should never have RPG elements is Portal. In Portal, after a few tutorials, you have a static set of abilities. All the cool and awesome things you do are the result of applying things you've learned. There's nothing on the screen that pops up saying that your character learned the ability to do ______. You, the player, actually learn how to do things.

RPG elements would do nothing but detract from a game like Portal.

 

[Tobor]

SMB already has elements of RPG. You can improve his various abilities with power ups that you pick up. That sort of depth allows you to tackle various levels in different ways.

So yes, I'm serious.

Uhhhh...I got nothing.

 

[Haunted]

Should have been in the first post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmUJrKGN3C0

That is damn hilarious.

Although I'm not sure when IGN started making their own ads for games.

 

[TheFallen]

There's a whole genre for this, you realize this? It's called MMO. Check it out, I hear it's great. We don't need every game to be Borderlands.

 

[Green Mamba]

SMB already has elements of RPG. You can improve his various abilities with power ups that you pick up. That sort of depth allows you to tackle various levels in different ways.

I'm bailing out right here.

 

[jman2050]

SMB already has elements of RPG. You can improve his various abilities with power ups that you pick up. That sort of depth allows you to tackle various levels in different ways.

So yes, I'm serious.

Wow

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Unless you're talking specifically about Sunshine you have the same moves in every Mario game from beginning to end.

Maybe he's talking about Super Mario RPG. You're not playing fair, OP!

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

SMB already has elements of RPG. You can improve his various abilities with power ups that you pick up. That sort of depth allows you to tackle various levels in different ways.

So yes, I'm serious.

Once I tried making this argument. I lost pretty hard.

Save yourself before it is too late!

 

[John Master Lee]

Because after a few years, gamers realized it was a huge mistake to shove gameplay mechanics into games without ever thinking about whether they actually improve the game.

An example of a game that should never have RPG elements is Portal. In Portal, after a few tutorials, you have a static set of abilities. All the cool and awesome things you do are the result of applying things you've learned. There's nothing on the screen that pops up saying that your character learned the ability to do ______. You, the player, actually learn how to do things.

RPG elements would do nothing but detract from a game like Portal.

Ok - good point. And good counter argument.

 

[Haunted]

I used to think this, then I played Too Human.

I thought Borderlands was going to be decent, by the way? GAF hype?

Borderlands will rock. Of course, the ridiculous shit posted in the OP will only serve to build up hate against it.

I'd equate this thread to 10-12 posts full of Killzone 2 .gifs in unrelated threads. That's how devastating this is.

Ok - good point. And good counter argument.

... he just stated the goddamn obvious. How in the hell didn't you think of that before writing your article?

 

[Square Triangle]

Borderlands looks like it has a LOT of potential but the reviews will be harsh and the commercial success won't be as high as everyone would like. What I believe it will end being like anyways.

 

[bengraven]

I'm kind of excited for this.

I'm more excited for RAGE.

However, I think if you played both you'd put three times the amount of time into Borderlands. Rage seems like it may be very short.

 

[Tobor]

No, I agree with Speedpop.

Every game should be like Diablo 2.

But if every game were like Borderlands I'd stop playing games.

Borderlands is like Diablo 2, at least as far as this discussion.

Anyhoo, the OP want's all games to be action RPG's, and we can all agree that's stupid.

Action RPG is my favorite genre, but who want's to eat steak every day?

 

[John Master Lee]

Once I tried making this argument. I lost pretty hard.

Save yourself before it is too late!

I'm OK with being chewed a new one!

Because among the rants, there are some really interesting points. But posting on Gaf can elevate your blood pressure...

 

[Gilgamesh]

But... I like my games to have story. I don't want to just kill and loot. It's like an MMO. I hate MMOs.

Plus, get co-op out of my single player experience. If you want co-op, do it like Uncharted 2.

Also, this.

 

[speedpop]

Borderlands is like Diablo 2, at least as far as this discussion.

Anyhoo, the OP want's all games to be action RPG's, and we can all agree that's stupid.

Action RPG is my favorite genre, but who want's to eat steak every day?

Oh definitely. There has to be variety in this industry otherwise it would be dead.

 

[andymcc]

SMB already has elements of RPG. You can improve his various abilities with power ups that you pick up. That sort of depth allows you to tackle various levels in different ways.

So yes, I'm serious.

maybe you should be on the cover of borderlands.

 

[Wario64]

Borderlands isn't even out yet, shut the hell up.

Plus, get co-op out of my single player experience. If you want co-op, do it like Uncharted 2.

 

[Haunted]

I think I will wait for Rage instead.

I'm totally excited for Rage, but I don't think skipping similar games while waiting for another to be released TBA down the line is the best choice to make.

 

[darkwings]

Borderlands isn't even out yet, shut the hell up.

Plus, get co-op out of my single player experience. If you want co-op, do it like Uncharted 2.

Agreed. Co-op was so shitty in RE5 that it left a sour taste.

 

[John Master Lee]

Borderlands is like Diablo 2, at least as far as this discussion.

Anyhoo, the OP want's all games to be action RPG's, and we can all agree that's stupid.

Action RPG is my favorite genre, but who want's to eat steak every day?

This is where you get it wrong.

I don't want all games to be action RPGs.

I want games to offer up more than the standard package. A music game can still be a music game. A puzzle game can still be a puzzle game.

The key is that more elements can be added to the game to provide more variety to play.

 

[Vast Inspiration]

"All games should be more like the games I like. I will also ignore the fact that any of these features would take time out of a development process that may be better spent on other parts of development for certain games."

Frankly, 4 player drop in/drop out coop is something EVERY FPS EVER would be improved by with very little work. And who the fuck cares about the narrative justification.

Halo CE was all about the lone Spartan but in Coop another Spartan appeared magically and the narrative went on by simply ignoring that detail.

Who cares? When you have 4 friends playing a game together, nobody gives a shit about the story at that point.

 

[duckroll]

Agreed. Co-op was so shitty in RE5 that it left a sour taste.

To be fair the CO-OP was really good, it was the single player with AI that suffered as a result.

 

[Absoludacrous]

Wait, I don't understand, what can I do on the last level of Mario that I can't do on the first level of Mario

 

[Chromax]

Just canceled Heavy Rain and Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth since there's no 4 player co-op with phat epic lewt farming!

 

[Haunted]

This is where you get it wrong.

I don't want all games to be action RPGs.

I want games to offer up more than the standard package. A music game can still be a music game. A puzzle game can still be a puzzle game.

The key is that more elements can be added to the game to provide more variety to play.

Ah, much better. Your point was poorly made in that OP.

Then again, you're basically saying that you want Jack of all Trades, Master of None games. Putting shit in there "just for the sake of it" rarely helps games out.

Not every dev will get the balance juuust right. Sometimes it's better to narrow your focus in development, so you'll get a more focused and enjoyable experience.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Should have been in the first post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmUJrKGN3C0

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[modeps]

Randy, is that you?